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I'm not playing head in the sand at all; I've been taking care of my own business all day and sometimes Magic takes a back-seat. Besides, it hasn't even been a full twenty-four hours, so relax.Quote:
Originally Posted by EssKay
At any rate: The results do not lie. I went 4-3 in the event and dropped after round seven (when I could have padded my record to a potentially modest 6-3). It's funny because most of my losses were so close, I could have just as easily gone 6-1 in that time. I didn't do that, however, and have some ideas for updating the list.
You have to understand that in a field of two-hundred thirty-two players, there is going to be some level of parity. Not everyone is going to make Top Eight, although that was my primary goal. I was impressed with the deck's performance but have noticed that it does require something a little more. It needs another draw engine (besides Dark Confidant) and more Equipment.
I was also startled at the number of Loam-based decks that were rolling around everywhere. I'm beginning to wonder if Tsabo's Web would be a generally good idea for a large meta. I've seen this happen on more than one occasion.
I am no longer sold on three Deathmark main-deck. However, it was relevant in all but one round, so that kind of proves my point that it was no doubt effective. I even had a kid call me out on playing them main, and a judge came over and smiled gleefully stating that I did in fact main-deck them (much to his chagrin). I ended up crushing him, but I do need to make sure the deck maintains a high level of versatility. It performed up to the level of my expectations and I'll go into detail about what can be done as far as fixing some major flaws are concerned.
So what changes are you thinking of making?
If Deathmark performed that badly it may be replaced by Smother. Sure it's a littler more expensive (1B) but I think it hits 90% of the creatures in the actual legacy meta and its at instant speed. It would even improve the preboard MU against non-green aggro like Goblins or Merfolk.
But what about Deathmark if it is no longer in Main Deck ? Do we need it in the Sideboard? May be instead of Spinning Darkness. But I think Spinning Darkness is better especially against Non-Black Aggro with reach. And we also have Dystopia against green-based Aggro like Zoo. So what do u think do we need Deathmark at all ?
@ Hollywood: How do u think about Thorn of Amethyst in SB now after testing it ?
I never played Deathmark, but immediately replaced it with Smother. Deathmark is too narrow and Smother hits almost everything.
Anyways another problem is that Abyssal Persecutor is the only "fatty" of the deck.. I know that with Jitte any creature is just so good, but without they just have 2 power..
And I am also sorry to say, but the deck needs a splash. Just too many artifacts and enchantments, planeswalkers that are almost GG against this deck.
My actual list looks like that:
// Lands
4 Wasteland
17 Swamp
// Creatures
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Abyssal Persecutor
// Spells
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress / Thoughtseize
4 Innocent Blood
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Bitterblossom
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Smother
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Spinning Darkness
SB: 3 Dystopia
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 3 Deathmark / Pithing Needle (not sure)
Not sure if I need DM anymore when I got Smother MB. May be Needle is the better choice.
This could be a compromise:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation
// Lands
4 Wasteland
17 Swamp
// Creatures
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Faerie Macabre
// Spells
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress / Thoughtseize
4 Innocent Blood
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Bitterblossom
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Smother
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Spinning Darkness
SB: 3 Dystopia
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Deathmark
SB: 3 Extirpate
I'm also not sure about the choice between Duress and Thoughtseize, especially in the Ichorid MU Thoughtseize would be much better if u got Faerie Macabre also MB or in Hand.
This belongs in this deck:
http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...h5lvist_en.jpg
Any explanation why one would put this card in TheGate?Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsthethird
Looks like a REALLY bad choice to me. I see exactly no reason to play this.
Even Sign in Blood looks better to me....
That's enough. Be civil or be gone.
@Bardo:
Can i ask what "bait taken and responded to means, or in general, why so many posts get deleted for "bait" ?
Anyway, back to topic:
I think TheGate mostly lacks 2 things at the moment:
Better creatures. I think something like a "black Tarmogoyf" is needed. I don't feel like Gatekeeper and Dark Confidant put enough pressure on the table. Don't get me wrong, Bob is awesome and i won't cut a single one but he just dies to everything and in most cases you don't want him in combat. I actually think about cutting a Gatekeeper and one more card and then add 2 Tombstalker. Yes, i am aware that drawing him with Confidant is an evil self-beating, but getting a Tombstalker on the table can be gamewinning. Any hey, correctly uses a Tombstalker costs 2 mana, so he kinda fits into "Black Tarmogoyf" - except he is 5/5 from the start, won't get chumped by some random walking dude and lowers the count of your opponents Tarmogoyf (by removing the cards from your graveyard).
More library-control. Well, it is black, so aside from Divining Top there won't be much that can be done about this...
Here is what i will test out next:
[4x] Dark Confidant
[3x] Abyssal Persecutor
[4x] Vampire Nighthawk
[3x] Gatekeeper of Malakir
[2x] Tombstalker
[4x] Duress
[4x] Innocent Blood
[3x] Deathmark
[3x] Cabal Therapy
[3x] Hymn to Tourach
[2x] Sensei's Divining Top
[2x] Umezawa's Jitte
[2x] Bitterblossom
[17x] Swamp
[4x] Wasteland
//Sideboard
[3x] Faerie Macabre
[3x] Extirpate
[3x] Dystopia
[3x] Spinning Darkness
[2x] Damnation
[1x] OPEN SLOT
As u can see, i did the following changes:
+2 Tombstalker (just hope you don't let Bob show him)
+2 Divining Top (helps your Bob and helps you)
-1 Persecutor (sorry, but i just don't want one in almost every starting hand, now that i added Tombstalker)
-1 Gatekeeper (He is good, but he is more of a tool, so i dont need the full playset of this tool)
-1 Umezawa's Jitte (jitte is so clumsy and slow, 2 are enough)
-1 Bitterblossom (Bitterblossom is so slow, sorry but as great as it is i dont want more than 2 of this)
Also don't forget that cutting down the numbers a bit but then adding Divining Top will slightly be in a balance, cause the Top finds me the cards that i cut down a bit.
What do you guys think?
(I will test it out this evening, hopefully with some good results)
I dont want to spoil the fun, but if you add Top then you should also add Fetchlands. In which case you should also think about adding a splash colour.. just saying.
Actually you don't spoil the fun, you actually speak out what many might be thinking anyway ;)
But it's also to be considered that Fetchlands only "open" you to Stifle (and moon effects, which i don't see in my meta), while Duals "open" you to wasteland.
The question at this point (again) is, if we need another color. So far i tried out Green (Tarmogoyf, Maelstrom Pulse, Deed), Red (Terminate, Burn) and White (Stoneforge Mystic, Swords to Plowshares, Vindicate) and i kinda did not like it so much, that i would open myself to Wasteland and non-basic hate.
If you choose to use a small green splash you could run 6 Fetch, 2 Bayou and 1 Forest. This would leave still leave you with 8 Swamps, which is more than enough to be stable against none-basic hate.
Exactly. This deck needs GREEN! But MonoBlack has mor style!Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlock
Well, adding Tarmogoyf, Sylvan Library, Krosan Grip and Maelstrom Pulse help the deck a lot!
And the manabase would be really stable anyways..
if you do a "small" green or white splash (the idea sounds nice to me)
What would you add?
Green: Tarmogoyf / Pernicious Deed / Maelstrom Pulse / something else
White: Swords to Plowshares / Vindicate / something else
And in what numbers would you add it, and what would you cut for it?
Consider please, that if you run "only" 6 fetchlands, 2 Bayou and maybe one basic Forest, that one would most likely not want to play more than 4 - 8 green cards, neither of which should require more than a single green mana :)
I'm not sure if its a good idea to add green or white. Sure you will get solutions for Walkers, Artifacts and Enchantments (annoying Lands) if u add Maelstrom Pulse / Vindicate, but you still need a ton of BB and BBB mana. So getting vulnerable to Wasteland, Stifle and Moon Effects is kind of dangerous. Furthermore u won't even have a solution for a Blood Moon, because u can't cast Pulse/Vindicate or Grip with moon on the board. And fetching for a Forest/Plains doesn't seems a solution to me because as u said u just want to do a "small splash". So u got 4-8 green/white cards and so the Forest/Plains would be a colorless manasource in most cases, which is also not good if I think about the hight amount of BB and BBB in the mana curve.
I also don't like SDT without Fetchlands. Maybe Crystal Ball could be better. I know its at 3 and not 1 like SDT but without fetchland SDT will devour a bunch of Mana.
For example: Play SDT (1 Mana) -> EOT: Look at the top 3 (1 Mana), if u dont find what u are looking for -> Draw -> Look again (1 Mana), maybe u find what u are looking for and tap SDT to draw it, then u are forced to draw SDT next turn and have to pay another 2 just to look at 3 cards and rearange them. So in the end you paid 5 Mana (3x looking, 2x playing) and "wasted" 1 draw step for SDT.
With Crystal Ball u pay 3 to play it and then 1 to scry 2 every turn and if u dont like the cards u are not forced to "look at your doom" because u are able to put them on bottom of the library.
@ sporenfrosch: In your modification u add 2 Tome Stalker and cut 1 Bitterblossom, 1 Jitte and 1 Persecutor. So u cut 3 win conditions and add 2 so effectivly u cut 1 and also add the chance of hurting yourself by revealing Stalker with Bob.
I'm not sure if we need more critters, because we are able to get rid of nearly every creature on the board and to kill the opponet with flying and trampling persecutor or faeries carrying Jitte or SoLaS.
Just my 2 copper...
Nearly every deck out there has to deal with Stifle, 2 nonbebasic land doesnt make Wasteland very potent against this deck (its just not completly dead). One less black source should get migitated through Top.
I dont advocate the green splash, i just want to point out that the deck could get away with a small splash, as running ~8 basics is still a luxury compared to the rest of the format. On the other hand there is the "Solidarity" argument, which desperatly needs every land as solid as possible, as its mana engine is build upon these stable lands, which might also be applied to this deck - i dont know.
Prime candidates for the green splash are Goyf and Grip imo, not sure about Deed and Pulse - wouldnt they make the deck a tad to clumsy? Also depends on the bad matchups.
Why would Maelstrom Pulse (3mana, sorcery but hits all nonland permanents) make the deck more clumsy than Krosan Grip (3mana, instant, hits only enchantments and artifacts but has split/second) ?
Sporenfrosch you are right, i applied blue deck logic here - where instants are much superior over sorcerys. Pulse just feeled clumsier than Grip so wrote it down without thinking to much.
flames edited
Can I has my perma-ban now plz?
sure---frogboy