[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

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Originally Posted by Loxmatii

simple question:

i saw platinum emperion in some mud stompy lists. Why people run them? i thought platinum angel better because cost 1 less mana to cast. i am wrong? explain me, plz

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The main reason why I play the Emperion over the Angel is that the Emperion is twice as big. It's an 8/8 and that requires at least two burn spells(Fireblast), typically three. The Angel is easier to destroy. Also the Emperion allows us to use Ancient Tomb to our hearts content since it won't hurt us with Emperion and we still feel the pain with Angel, so in that aspect we're helping them if we don't pay attention to our life totals and they kill the Angel.

Also putting a Lightning Greaves on an Emperion pretty much says to dredge and burn (more than other decks anyway), "Hey, yeah, I'm just going to sit here looking pretty and get you killed when I'm good and ready."

For now this my casual MUD deck. I have many of these cards already and it doesn't cost me much to finish this the way it is presented, although I don't have Wasteland or Rishadan Port. I think I would go with Rishadan Port and Dust Bowl, for the lack of space. I'd cut the Sheltered Valley, 1 Dust Bowl, 1 Mishra's Factory, for 3 Ports. I have no space for Wasteland. I have no way to recur it either. So I don't really care about it. Sheltered Valley could as easily be a lone Darksteel Citadel or something, I know, but against Burn (one of my worst matchups, I take it?) it can steal a whole turn. It also gives me a bit of tempo if they waste one of my other lands early. While I'm ramping and doing stuff it gives me a drop or 3 of life. Comes into play untapped. Gives me a colorless. I see no reason not to play 1 for lack of much else. And I want a 21 land count because of Wasteland.

Than Dynamo is essential. I see some lists without it and I think they are crazy. I also think Razormane Masticore is essential, since it does -everything- in this deck, by itself. Same could be said for Steel Hellkite. 4 are essential always. Does everything. Hall Of The Bandit Lord is kind of useless I guess, but can steal a turn for a win, and I have multiple chances to abuse that. Trinisphere is useless main deck. Its a sideboard card. Don't play it main. I don't see me making many changes to this so I thought I'd post it for criticism. Don't criticize me on the lands as already mentioned I know I lack the Ports.

LANDS,

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City Of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Dust Bowl
3 Crystal Vein
1 Hall of The Bandit Lord
1 Buried Ruin
1 Sheltered Valley


STUFF

3 Thran Dynamo
4 Metalworker
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice Of The Void
1 Staff Of Nin
2 Spine Of Ish Sah


BEATS

4 Steel Hellkite
4 Razormane Masticore
2 Sundering Titan
1 Myr Battlesphere
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Artisan Of Kozilek

Something in my brain keeps insisting that the list should contain this line:
1 Crucible of Worlds
No clue as to why, maybe my brain is addicted : /

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Something in my brain keeps insisting that the list should contain this line:
1 Crucible of Worlds
No clue as to why, maybe my brain is addicted : /

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I agree. Recurs City Of Traitors and other nonbasics. let alone Wasteland. also fuels dust bowl.

but I don't own that card myself...

I personally don't like the idea of playing Key with Chalice. I'm not saying it's a bad thing per se, but it can dead cards in your hand, and I don't like that.
I agree with the needs 1 Crucible for the aforemention reasons.
I also love the Spine, but think that it really should have Forgemaster to abuse with it.
Trinishpere isn't in my main anymore, they've been replaced by Thorn of Amethyst since it is another turn one hate/tax card without the need for Monolith.
I use 4 Ancient Tomb, 4 Cavern of Souls, 4 City of Traitors, 4 Darksteel Citadel, and 4 Wasteland as my mana base. I do agree that Port is good, I'd just rather be able to make it so my Contruct creatures can't be countered (Metalworker and Forgemaster), or my Golems (Sundering Titan, Lodestone, Platinum Emperion) and it can help mitigate life loss from my Phyrexian Metamorph (1 main, 1 side) by naming Shapeshifter (which also works for Duplicant from the side)
For if my things do get countered I have a one of Trading Post that has saved me several times by gaining life and enables some pretty nasty shenanegains.

Another robot to consider is Wurmcoil Engine. That thing singlehandedly shuts down aggro decks like Jund without the card disadvantage that something like Razormane Masticore gives you. The lifelink on the massive body makes it almost impossible to race (and helps offset damage from Ancient Tombs).

I don't mind Key with Chalice because while it does super suck when you draw key when you have Chalice @ 1 out, Key just enables too many busted things to cut, imo. Plus if you draw key when you have Chalice @ 1 out... that means you have Chalice @ 1 out :)

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Originally Posted by Fry

I personally don't like the idea of playing Key with Chalice. I'm not saying it's a bad thing per se, but it can dead cards in your hand, and I don't like that.
I agree with the needs 1 Crucible for the aforemention reasons.
I also love the Spine, but think that it really should have Forgemaster to abuse with it.
Trinishpere isn't in my main anymore, they've been replaced by Thorn of Amethyst since it is another turn one hate/tax card without the need for Monolith.
I use 4 Ancient Tomb, 4 Cavern of Souls, 4 City of Traitors, 4 Darksteel Citadel, and 4 Wasteland as my mana base. I do agree that Port is good, I'd just rather be able to make it so my Contruct creatures can't be countered (Metalworker and Forgemaster), or my Golems (Sundering Titan, Lodestone, Platinum Emperion) and it can help mitigate life loss from my Phyrexian Metamorph (1 main, 1 side) by naming Shapeshifter (which also works for Duplicant from the side)
For if my things do get countered I have a one of Trading Post that has saved me several times by gaining life and enables some pretty nasty shenanegains.

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Well, with metalworker, key really isn't that dead of a draw. Sometimes you need to keep artifacts in hand for metalworker so, chalice @1 is ok with key most of time. IMO key is 2nd best card in deck.

Yesterday at my local tournament I went 2:2 losing to stoneblade and hivemind. I'm here to talk about hivemind, game one he went off turn 2 and then game two he lntuitions show and tell, and plays show and tell, I put in forgemaster and he, emrakul then I play a few artifacts and pass, he declared attack phase and I break forgemaster getting phyrexian metamorph targeting the emrakul and save me two more turns before he plays hivemind and pact of nogation. Besides trinisphere, what else could help in this match?

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Originally Posted by whatwas

Yesterday at my local tournament I went 2:2 losing to stoneblade and hivemind. I'm here to talk about hivemind, game one he went off turn 2 and then game two he lntuitions show and tell, and plays show and tell, I put in forgemaster and he, emrakul then I play a few artifacts and pass, he declared attack phase and I break forgemaster getting phyrexian metamorph targeting the emrakul and save me two more turns before he plays hivemind and pact of nogation. Besides trinisphere, what else could help in this match?

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The game one between you and me was the grindiest thing I've ever played. Drawing 3 Moms and bringing you down to one between those and your Ancient Tombs...and still managing to lose is just brilliant stuff.

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Originally Posted by BlackFlameAshura

The game one between you and me was the grindiest thing I've ever played. Drawing 3 Moms and bringing you down to one between those and your Ancient Tombs...and still managing to lose is just brilliant stuff.

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Karn saved the day big time. Its the first time I got to play him ever. Usually he gets answered really early. I pulled out my two silver bullets that match. :tongue:

Karn AND Wasteland lock became absolutely brutal but was still a tight match. It was really anyone's game for awhile there.

Hivemind aside, I feel mud is a good choice for the meta atm, all these combo decks are asking for main deck chalice at :0: and trinisphere so badly right now. I hope to see it in top eights again soon. Miracles has almost nothing on us either so get to it ppl! FL has no legacy in the SCG open this month or else I'd bring the hate myself :wink:

I will agree that Key has great potential with Metalworker, but I play a Staff of Domination and that can just win you on the spot with 3 artifacts in hand, which is made easier since I play 2 Staff of Nin that kills Clique, Mom, Thalia, unflipped Delvers, Noble Hierarchs and several other 1 toughness creatures I'm not thinking of (as I just think of Bob) with just one in play.

I like this list a lot. It's similar to my current build now:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=54151

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

I like this list a lot. It's similar to my current build now:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=54151

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Keys is fine in or out IMO, I'd rather run thran dynamo and everflowing chalice over them because they can be swordsed+ are good on they're own... I knew mud would make a come back. Didn't think it would be last night, though lol. I feel like that list from DC should have ran emperion main, and maybe a phyrexian metamorph. Other than blightsteel the only other card I ticker for with forgemaster are them.

Yesterday I played in a 12-14 person tournament and got first (went 4-0). First tournament I've played in a few years.

Round one vs 12 post-natural order 2-0
G1: He had a deathrite shaman. I have a iffy hand with with lightning greeves, forgemaster and a few other things. Next turn green sun's zenith for Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary. Gets out a primeval titan and gains a bunch of life. He's at 24. Het gets me down a bit, but end of his turn I fetch for Blightsteel Colossus and he's forced to block everything. Next turn I win with poison counters.
G2: Starts out similar to game 1. He gets out a titan again. I phyrexian revoker Deathrite Shaman. I pull off a battlesphere and he fetches a Maze of Ith. Luckily I have lightning greeves. He blocks my dude while still taking 4 from tapped tokens. I gets rid of greeves, but 4 direct damage from tapping tokens and swinging is enough to finish him off.

Round two vs burn 2-0
G1: he burns me down with spells, goblin guide, and Keldon Marauders. I chalice of the void for 1, drop a Lodestone golem, wait one more turn for his Marauder to die, then smash.
G2: I side in 4 trinisphere and phyrexian metamorph. He swings with Goblin Guide giving me a city of traitors. I turn two Trini, turn 3 Lodestone Golem, Metamorph copying golem. Next turn I lay another metamorph targeting Lodestone golem. He Scoops

fter my match I chill out, then go to watch a game that was still going on. I lent out my Charbelcher deck to this cool cat that decided to play legacy that day. So I went to go watch the guy play and he's playing against tin fins. Tin fins gets the victory in the third game.

Round three vs Tezzerat control (UB)
G1: I get an early Chalice set for 1, and pound him with some creature(s) (I don't remember)
G2: I get an early metalworker and mindslaver him. I take his turn, -4 his tezzeret, cast something, then force of will pitching Baleful Strix. Ping him for one with his Dimir Signet. It feels like I'm in a pretty great position here but then... I'm not drawing any threats of my own. He thirsts for knowledge and gets another tezzeret online, and animates his Signet into a big 5/5. He casts a wurmcoil engine, and things aren't looking good for me. I finally find a forgemaster and get a blightsteel online, keeping my forgemaster on the field. I attack, kill his tez, force him to block with his Wurmcoil engine. He gets two tokens, and casts another wurmcoil engine. By that time I'm too far ahead and kill him with poison counters.


Dude that was playing tin fins was watching the end of our match to see what I was playing.

Round 4 vs tinfins (finals)
We both know what eachother is playing at this point.
G1: I draw a hand with too many mana sources, and mulligan down to 6 with a turn 1 chalice for 1. Pretty much shuts him down game 1 and he either scoops or I beat him down with some dudes (don't remember).
G2: Here's where I made a mistake. I side in 2 phyrexian Metamorph, spine of ish sah, and a trinisphere, as well as 3 tormod's crypt. He t1 duresses my crypt, and I don't really draw anything. He unleashes grizzlebrand and asks me if I want him to go through the combo. I say yes and commence learning (I've never actually played against this deck and seen how it plays out the combo exactly). He draws a bunch of cards then fetches children. Gains life and kills me with Emrakul.
G3: I realize half my sideboarding was super silly. Once he gets the combo it's game over. I side out 1 spine of ish sah and 2 phyrexian metamorph. Side in the other three trinisphere (running 4 at this point). We both mull down to 6, then he mulls to 5. I keep a hand with a turn two trinisphere and hope he doesn't combo out turn one. I lay a land and pass the turn. He plays a land, then casts Ponder. I'm super relieved. Turn two I cast Trinisphere, it resolves aka timewalk para mi. Turn two he drops a land and passes the turn. I don't remember exactly how the rest of the game played out. I think I beat him with a lodestone golem or two, maybe platinum empirion.

Decklist:

Lands: 22
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 City of traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Buried Ruin

Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the void
3 Lightning greaves
1 Spine of ish sah
1 Staff of nin
1 Mindslaver
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Phyrexian revoker
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Platinum empirion
1 Blightsteel colossus
1 Phyrexian Metamorph

SB:
4 Trinisphere
2 Rachet Bomb
1 Contagion Engine
2 All is Dust
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Spine of Ish Sah
3 Tormod's Crypt


I should have taken better notes. Maybe next time. Some things I observed and random thoughts I have:
1.) I almost always sided out phyrexian revoker. It's such a solid card but didn't really help me out much the whole day.
2.)Lightning greaves + Kuldotha Forgemaster + Blightsteel colossus was MVP today. There were a few games where I would have lost if I didn't have Blightsteel Colossus with lightning greaves. The haste and the shroud can get you out of almost anything. I don't think I'd consider running anything less than 3 greaves. Greaves also helped me out a lot with plays like Turn one lightning greaves, turn two metalworker into business. It helped forgemaster speed up a turn fetching me the utility I needed instantly.
3.) I've heard a lot of people say that buried ruin wasn't useful for them, but it helped me out a few times.
4.) Mindslaver is good, but without goblin welder or a thread on the field, it isn't as spectacular a topdeck as one might think.


Other things I want to discuss:

I see many lists running 4 Goblin welder, 3 Voltaic Key and and 4 chalice of the void. Doesn't seem really good, but apparently it works:
Ramario Neto
4th Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 3/17/2013
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=54151

What's the logic, and how do you play around your own Chalice? If you have a hand with turn one chalice, or turn one welder or key, do you play the welder or the key first, then turn 2-3 chalice? I would want to go for the timewalk... If you have an early challice at 1, then 7 of your cards are dead later on, unless you blow your own chalice up.
I want to try running 3 voltaic keys and possibly try a welder list, but I'm not sure if I want to run Chalice with welder and key. If I were to run welder and key, I'd consider replacing chalice for trinisphere. Still to be tested, but I really want to know how people play around their own chalice.
I also want to know why/how Thran dynamo works so well. I mean yea it produces mana with volatic key, but does it ever just slow you down?
Anyhow, I love this deck.

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Originally Posted by lukatron2

What's the logic, and how do you play around your own Chalice? If you have a hand with turn one chalice, or turn one welder or key, do you play the welder or the key first, then turn 2-3 chalice? I would want to go for the timewalk... If you have an early challice at 1, then 7 of your cards are dead later on, unless you blow your own chalice up.

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Cavern on Goblin pushes it through, and often times there are instances where you can weld away a Chalice on 1 when your opponent is unable to take advantage of the opening, play a Key, then play a dead Chalice sitting in your hand.

I'm curious with how much success people have had (if any) with the 12 post version of the deck. Do you run any cards to support the 12 post or just the lands? Another alternative to 12 post could be urzatron, but while it's good enough for modern, it might not be that great in legacy. Has anyone tested urzatron? It seems like we're playing colorless lands anyway, so on the off chance you get it assembled in a game it could be a blow out. The only downside I see to this is that you can't use the artifact lands with welder or forgemaster. This pretty much narrows down what you can play to stompy. You could commit slots for things like expedition map to increase consistency. However, with chalice often coming down for 1 I'm not sure if expedition map is worth the trouble. I'm currently trying a 12 post list like this:

4 Grim Monolith
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff of Domination
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Myr Battlesphere
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Platinum Emperion
2 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
4 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Mox Opal
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Staff of Nin
4 Expedition Map

SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 All Is Dust
SB: 1 Phyrexian Metamorph

The sideboard could probably use some work, there's currently no way to get rid of ensnaring bridge... it's a holdover from when I played forgemaster. I could use something else for the show and tell matchup, as that's a big thing in my meta.

Hi, this is my first time posting on the forum.

I was playing the MUD list that finished 4th this last weekend. I honestly built the deck on sat afternoon after the Legacy challenge, but that's not say that I didn't know what I was going to play, I read up on the deck and looked at some lists online to get an idea.

Here is what I got from playing the deck on Sunday. First my sideboard wasn't very good relic of progenitus should had been Tormod's Crypt; also mindslaver, crucible of worlds and wurmcoil engines should have been something else. I liked the main deck a lot except for the 3 lodestone golems, they didn't really do anything the whole day and got sided out every game, I almost feel like a mix of mox opal, staff of nin and a thran dynamo would have been better.

Chalice was amazing and there were only a few times when a key would get stuck in my hand not able to casting it and the welder like it was mentioned you just cast with a cavern of souls. if there is some interest I can try to come up with a tournament report.

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Originally Posted by lilevo

Hi, this is my first time posting on the forum.

I was playing the MUD list that finished 4th this last weekend. I honestly built the deck on sat afternoon after the Legacy challenge, but that's not say that I didn't know what I was going to play, I read up on the deck and looked at some lists online to get an idea.

Here is what I got from playing the deck on Sunday. First my sideboard wasn't very good relic of progenitus should had been Tormod's Crypt; also mindslaver, crucible of worlds and wurmcoil engines should have been something else. I liked the main deck a lot except for the 3 lodestone golems, they didn't really do anything the whole day and got sided out every game, I almost feel like a mix of mox opal, staff of nin and a thran dynamo would have been better.

Chalice was amazing and there were only a few times when a key would get stuck in my hand not able to casting it and the welder like it was mentioned you just cast with a cavern of souls. if there is some interest I can try to come up with a tournament report.

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Congrats on your finish and I'd be interested in reading a tournament report.