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Most of the time, I'd rather be facing a resolved TNN than a resolved Jace, regardless of deck. TNN is only truly frightening when it has equipment, imo. Jace is always scary when he resolves. An opponent who gets to untap with Jace worries me much more than an opponent who untaps with a TNN (usually).Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
Yeah, myself most of the time I'd rather face a resolved TNN than a resolved Emrakul lol.
Tested it today, not even fun when playing it yourself. Oh man, hate hate hate this card.
Hey guis I heard TNN + SFM is pretty cool my 2 playsets of SFM doubled in value.
sup.
got handed the deck, so I finally got to play this card in the OwenT American Delver list last week.
in fair matchups, its a literal countdown until the game ends. you can even make all the other goings-on in the game (countering, removal, etc) a distraction while you just turn the guy sideways for (lifetotal/3) turns rounded down, fewer if you equip the bastard. so yeah, i see fair/midrange decks all collapsing on this card while packing lots of combo/grave hate in the sideboard.
its a dumb card. not overly powerful, but metagame changing to say the least.
Got my 2 sets for 8.99 a card. Also, I can't believe that this thread is still going. Honestly, what is left to say?Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
It's a one sided Sulfuric Vortex on crack
It mostly sits behind my bridge or dies to deluge. Mostly.
Fixed that. ;) Sometimes it's better to be lucky...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
If anything, now is the time to discuss whether TNN should be banned. The metagame has had time to adapt, and decks that rely on TNN and SFM to do the job are clearly doing well but not exactly dominating. (And I'm saying this based on The Council: http://www.tcdecks.net/metagame.php?format=Legacy . Unfortunately they have relatively few tournament reports for January so far.) But, if you factor in the obnoxiousness of TNN, then maaaybe a case can be made for banning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Also, it can be seen that midrange decks that mostly attack on the ground (Jund, Aggro Loam, The Rock, Bant, Maverick, Team Italia, Haterade and whatnot) are doing poorly. Jund and Maverick at least used to be a lot more successful. IMVHO non-evasive threats are being pushed out of the format. Whether that is an argument for banning, I don't know.
Going off of the few SCG Legacy Opens in January, it seems like things have simmered down and decks have adapted. Combo decks that don't care about TNN are seeing success, -1/-1 effects are being played, Jund Depths has developed in response to it, and some Esper Stoneblade lists without the card have popped up.
Still, I own four copies and I honestly wouldn't mind if TNN got banned. I don't think it has had a positive effect on the format. It's an incredibly non-interactive card that makes fair matchups quite boring. I personally thought that UWR mirrors were interesting and skill intensive until True-Name Nemesis made it all about resolving one and giving it a stick. Legacy was more fun before Commander 2013 got released, IMO.
Having said that, I don't believe that that's a valid reason for a banning. True-Name Nemesis is neither as oppressive as Mental Misstep was nor as omnipresent as Survival of the Fittest was. It's likely that he'll survive past the next B/R announcement.
While I think TNN survives the current bannings, I really hope it gets the axe asap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Superior
It doesn't contribute anything healthy to the format, makes games non-interactive (by either forcing you to play non-interactive combo or a TNN shell yourself) and sucks the fun out of the games. The sudden increase in Brainstorm decks ever since TNN has been released is a clear indicator that it is format-warping. Flash also had a "diverse" meta with "only" three Flash decks placing in the Top 8 of GP Columbus, but that doesn't mean that the format was healthy or fun.
The format would be better off with TNN gone.
TNN is just another card that breaks the format in a more subtle way. It's comparable to Show and Tell or Tendrils, they don't necessarily dominate the format or are excessively over-represented, but they severely restrict the number of viable strategies and card choices.
Well if wizard prints thousands more TNN, I will hopefully get some of those (like thousand players that can't find any at reasonnable prices) and flood the metagame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Superior
The only reason why one can't see more TNNs in top 8 is that it is extremely hard to find those merfolks !
If there was one good reason to ban TNN, it would be the precedent it sets. Let me compare it to Tarmogoyf.
Tarmogoyf set the precedent of hyper-efficient vanilla creatures. While this obsoleted many creatures of old, it encourages future creatures to be good based on utility (which helped gave birth to decks like Maverick and DnT), which helps with making the game more interactive, which (IMO) makes it more fun. Goyf is also easily answerable. If future variants of Goyf were made (which have been Wild Nacatl), it likely would likely not impact the format in a severe way. The closest to this was Delver, but the meta has been quite healthy. Until...
True-Name Nemesis sets the precedent of invincible creatures with very few ways of interacting with while also being cheap to bring out. Do you enjoy looking at your STP or Decay or bolt sit in your hand doing nothing? Even Bolts could be used with cool and skill to kill a Gofy post combat damage. TNN is lazy and turns sideways and you may as well play combo if you aren't going to interact with me.
Do you really want to see more variants of TNN being printed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Well... Depends if the tools to fight them are upgraded or not.
Even now people dont play enough: toxic deluge, edicts, phantasmal images, charms, z persecutions, s demise, electrickery, etc...
Just evolve and kill those fish.
Peace.
This argument doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelmatix
"Well... depends if the tools to fight them are upgraded or not. Just evolve and deal with [insert banned card]".
There are certain mechanics that just break the game and warp it far too much. This was the case with Hulk Flash, SotF, Mental Misstep, and now possibly TNN. You know what happens when we take your advice for a broken card?
Everyone ends up playing it or an anti-broken card deck. If this happens, WotC will ban something, guarantee it. If this is your idea of "fun", WoTC proves you wrong.
This is just wrong. If you look at sideboards of decks like Jund that are able to run TNN-answers (Sudden Demise & Electrickery doesn't do anything versus TNN btw), they most certainly are running Golgari Charms, Diabolic Edict, Pernicious Deed, Toxic Deluge, etc. And it still doesn't matter as TNN decks are crushing decks those decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelmatix
Now if you're suggesting that decks need to "adapt" by running narrow, context-specific sideboard cards in the maindeck due to TNN, that doesn't sound like "adapting" to me, it sounds like it's warping the format. I love how people think running maindeck Lightning Bolt is dumb, but running a narrower sideboard card like Golgari Charm in it's place is next-level "adapting".
Delver was really, really dumb. I also think it's also the reason why blue gained even more foothold in the format. In 2011, the average Brainstorm percentage was 52%. The year afterwards, it went to 62% with RUG exploding in popularity. That, plus other stupid crap that powered up Show & Tell to the monstrosity that it is today and "Brainstorm: The Mechanic" aka Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Right, but even with Delver the format was able to adjust. Jund comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
If I owned any TNN, I'd be selling them like crack this weekend.
If it's not banned by this Monday, I'm picking up 3 by next weekend and shoving them into my Affinity deck so that I can play with 7-8 untouchable creatures. How does it feel to taste your medicine, TNN decks? :tongue: