[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

I haven't really been following storm all that much lately--Anybody wanna drop me a list that's a pretty current "stock" 75? I've got a friend who wants to move from modern to legacy and he's a storm player, and most of my experience in that matchup is of the "t1 thalia/sphere of resistance-->t2 hope to slam trinisphere" variant. Also a list of any of the relevant "tricks" that I may not be super familiar with--I've got all the chain of vapor your artifacts->recast shenanigans down but If there's any other tricks or "correct" cabal therapy calls to make, that kind of list would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by amalek0

I haven't really been following storm all that much lately--Anybody wanna drop me a list that's a pretty current "stock" 75? I've got a friend who wants to move from modern to legacy and he's a storm player, and most of my experience in that matchup is of the "t1 thalia/sphere of resistance-->t2 hope to slam trinisphere" variant. Also a list of any of the relevant "tricks" that I may not be super familiar with--I've got all the chain of vapor your artifacts->recast shenanigans down but If there's any other tricks or "correct" cabal therapy calls to make, that kind of list would be appreciated.

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The first post/primer in the thread is the best starting point. It also includes links at the end to some notable ANT articles.

What i really like against elves postboard is that they don't have brainstorm or anything to hide their
"hate" from discard,similar to jund where you can easily discard their thoughtseize/swansong/mr Teeg on turn 1 or 2.
I usually bring in 2 Chain of vapor
And cut the 15th land and 1 cabal ritual.
Still leave in my 2 ad nauseams for the additional explosiveness.
Again,when playing ad nauseam against elves its ok to stop at the point where you have both discard to take their hate/slow them down and a winning hand for the next turn.


Preboard games are still jokes,its a pure (somehow unfair) race :)
Keep attention to their deathriteshamans when you go off via past in flames ,sometimes they can do silly things like removing 2 instants/sorceries in a single turn ;-)


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Just came back from a break. I learned I was qualified for the invitational again. I haven't played ant in almost a year and when I did I played 2 grim tutors and and 17 land. I decided to go a more aggressive route for the invitational. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 gitaxian probe
2 preordain
4 lotus petal
4 lion's eye diamond
4 infernal tutor
1 grim tutor
4 duress
3 cabal therapy
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
1 tendrils of agony
1 ad nauseam
1 past in flames
4 polluted delta
4 misty rainforest
2 island
1 swamp
2 underground sea
1 tropical island
1 volcanic island
sb
3 abrupt decay
3 xantid swarm
2 chain of vapor
3 thoughtseize
1 cabal therapy
1 engineered explosives
1 slaughter pact
1 karakas
Does anyone still play the iggy in the board?

Play bayou instead of 2nd swamp. And massacre or dread of night instead of explosives. Worser against thalia tegg or amything the like.

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Originally Posted by ponder

Just came back from a break. I learned I was qualified for the invitational again. I haven't played ant in almost a year and when I did I played 2 grim tutors and and 17 land. I decided to go a more aggressive route for the invitational. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 gitaxian probe
2 preordain
4 lotus petal
4 lion's eye diamond
4 infernal tutor
1 grim tutor
4 duress
3 cabal therapy
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
1 tendrils of agony
1 ad nauseam
1 past in flames
4 polluted delta
4 misty rainforest
2 island
1 swamp
2 underground sea
1 tropical island
1 volcanic island
sb
3 abrupt decay
3 xantid swarm
2 chain of vapor
3 thoughtseize
1 cabal therapy
1 engineered explosives
1 slaughter pact
1 karakas
Does anyone still play the iggy in the board?

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No, no one is playing IGG anymore. Also regarding your sideboard: I would cut the 4 discard spells. There seems to me to be no reason to ever play more than 8, ever. And I personally never run more than 7. That will free up some space. I would also agree with Togores that you should cut the EE and go for either some Massacre or Dread of Night against Death and Taxes.

Finally the latest development in the board has been to include Young Pyromancer in the board. They are great against miracles and tempo decks. I recommend browsing the last 5-6 pages of this thread. And good luck! Will root for any storm pilots I see on camera at invitational :smile:

The EE was just an idea. But massacre gets stopped by teeg which makes it just as bad. When I played storm a year ago i played 12 discard between md and sb I also didn't lose to blue decks which are going to be prevalent at the invi.

Well teeg also stops your explosives because of its casting cost,by the way :D

If you board in that many discard spells against any deck you will often end up by having a hand full of discard but unable to go off.
The idea of having additional discard in the sideboard is fine,but 4 seems to much for my taste,1-2 should be enough.
Remember,every single ritual,petal and cantrip you take out for additional discard weakens the deck-strategy and reduces the explosiveness.

Anyway:
Good luck for the invitational :)

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Originally Posted by ponder

The EE was just an idea. But massacre gets stopped by teeg which makes it just as bad. When I played storm a year ago i played 12 discard between md and sb I also didn't lose to blue decks which are going to be prevalent at the invi.

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... Well, some pages ago our Lemnear advocated Hymn to Tourach. :really:
What are blue decks? The only thing I would worry about "blue decks" is which color they splash in order to have a chance against storm. Counterspells are definetely the weakest form of disruption, whereas "black decks" force you to discard cards under duress which is clearly stronger against ANT.

If you want an answer for Teeg: Chain of Vapor

If you are concerned about threats such as teeg and want a general sweeper. then you may want to look into Pyroclasm or toxic deluge, but as CabalTherapy said chain of vapor is usually sufficient.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ponder

Just came back from a break. I learned I was qualified for the invitational again. I haven't played ant in almost a year and when I did I played 2 grim tutors and and 17 land. I decided to go a more aggressive route for the invitational. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 gitaxian probe
2 preordain
4 lotus petal
4 lion's eye diamond
4 infernal tutor
1 grim tutor
4 duress
3 cabal therapy
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
1 tendrils of agony
1 ad nauseam
1 past in flames
4 polluted delta
4 misty rainforest
2 island
1 swamp
2 underground sea
1 tropical island
1 volcanic island
sb
3 abrupt decay
3 xantid swarm
2 chain of vapor
3 thoughtseize
1 cabal therapy
1 engineered explosives
1 slaughter pact
1 karakas
Does anyone still play the iggy in the board?

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I still run an Iggy in the board, but it's definitely a flexible meta slot for me. I like being able to bring it in instead of PiF in some non-blue matches (what few there are), and I'm running two BW main and sometimes do LED, LED, BW lines with it that aren't possible with PiF.

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Originally Posted by afb0032

If you are concerned about threats such as teeg and want a general sweeper. then you may want to look into Pyroclasm or toxic deluge, but as CabalTherapy said chain of vapor is usually sufficient.

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I've been running Pyroclasm for a long time, and it always performs way beyond expectations.

I haven't tried Deluge yet but it might be an upgraded version of Virtue's Ruin, which is still a fine card if you're trying to battle through Teegs and D&T.

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Originally Posted by gregtron

I've been running Pyroclasm for a long time, and it always performs way beyond expectations.

I haven't tried Deluge yet but it might be an upgraded version of Virtue's Ruin, which is still a fine card if you're trying to battle through Teegs and D&T.

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I used to play pyroclasm as well. Since life loss hasn't been an issue so far, it has proven to be a main 2 color pyroclasm with greater potential.

I just want to check in with people about Xantid Swarm in the Miracles matchup. I'm aware this came up a few pages ago, but I just wanted to get some opinions on it, especially with the relatively new popular option of YPM against Miracles. I'm generally opposed to boarding Swarm in, but I keep seeing Storm players have plans to board it and Miracles players fearing it. Now, the latter makes a logical sense, anything that blanks a significant mechanic in your deck is probably something to worry about. For storm players, though, I don't understand why you'd concede the small virtual card advantage you get blanking the removal a Miracle player is feeling forced to leave in.

An example of this is the Wilson Hunter/Joe Lossett invitational match where Hunter won 3-1, bringing in Xantid Swarm on the draw for game 2 and 3, idk if he kept it in on the play game 4. Reading the feature match, though (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...sett_vs_w.html), it seems like Swarm did nothing but get devoured by Swords to Plowshares.

So, here's the question: is the reward of having a possible counter-free turn worth the risk of trading 1-1 with a dead card against a deck that generates card advantage against you every turn? If anyone here does board the Swarm, I'd appreciate if you'd provides some insight. Is the draw vs. play scenario part of the issue? (This could be the motive as trying to discard on the draw runs into pierce/fluster whereas Xantid doesn't). Is it just a sideboard issue of not having much of a board against Miracles? (Some only have 2 Abrupt Decay and not much else, so that could also be it). Overall, the Xantid Swarm boarding plan seems like a high-risk gamble, and I'm wondering what sort of place you're in for this matchup where you're considering that gamble.

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Originally Posted by wonderPreaux

I just want to check in with people about Xantid Swarm in the Miracles matchup. I'm aware this came up a few pages ago, but I just wanted to get some opinions on it, especially with the relatively new popular option of YPM against Miracles. I'm generally opposed to boarding Swarm in, but I keep seeing Storm players have plans to board it and Miracles players fearing it. Now, the latter makes a logical sense, anything that blanks a significant mechanic in your deck is probably something to worry about. For storm players, though, I don't understand why you'd concede the small virtual card advantage you get blanking the removal a Miracle player is feeling forced to leave in.

An example of this is the Wilson Hunter/Joe Lossett invitational match where Hunter won 3-1, bringing in Xantid Swarm on the draw for game 2 and 3, idk if he kept it in on the play game 4. Reading the feature match, though (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...sett_vs_w.html), it seems like Swarm did nothing but get devoured by Swords to Plowshares.

So, here's the question: is the reward of having a possible counter-free turn worth the risk of trading 1-1 with a dead card against a deck that generates card advantage against you every turn? If anyone here does board the Swarm, I'd appreciate if you'd provides some insight. Is the draw vs. play scenario part of the issue? (This could be the motive as trying to discard on the draw runs into pierce/fluster whereas Xantid doesn't). Is it just a sideboard issue of not having much of a board against Miracles? (Some only have 2 Abrupt Decay and not much else, so that could also be it). Overall, the Xantid Swarm boarding plan seems like a high-risk gamble, and I'm wondering what sort of place you're in for this matchup where you're considering that gamble.

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I've previously argued the following: While I don't have the Swarms in my sideboard specifically to bring in against Miracles (but rather against Show and Tells with the white leyline), if I do have them I'll probably bring them in as they can be very good against Miracles.

However, the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree with the line of thinking supporting your arguments. The opportunity cost of bringing them in might be too high. Miracles is already the matchup where I have the most cards to bring in. It pretty much transforms my deck. I bring in 8 cards. If I were to bring in 2-3 more well... I don't think the occasional reward would be worth it. Also, when bringing in the Pyromancer, it pretty much changes what you want to be doing to a point where resolving your big win spells in a single turn isn't necessarily the be all and end all of your objective.

Edit: It's a non-issue for me right now, anyways, as I'm not currently running the swarms in my board at all.

Random question for other ANT players: How aggressive are you with your mulligans against different archetypes? I've been doing a lot more in depth analysis about my opening hands and find that I seldom mulligan. I'm asking this because I believe it is a weaker point in my game and want to get some outside perspective. What makes you most likely to keep/ship a slow hand? Are there any specific parameters you feel your 7 must absolutely meet for certain matchups (in this instance assume you know what your opponent is playing)? What about hands with multiple discard spells, a gitaxian probe, land/rituals, but no other cantrips or tutors?

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Originally Posted by afb0032

Random question for other ANT players: How aggressive are you with your mulligans against different archetypes? I've been doing a lot more in depth analysis about my opening hands and find that I seldom mulligan. I'm asking this because I believe it is a weaker point in my game and want to get some outside perspective. What makes you most likely to keep/ship a slow hand? Are there any specific parameters you feel your 7 must absolutely meet for certain matchups (in this instance assume you know what your opponent is playing)? What about hands with multiple discard spells, a gitaxian probe, land/rituals, but no other cantrips or tutors?

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That is really a random and general question but one which is of main importance for the outcome of the game.
It depends on so many factors like:
- MU (as you mention it)
- game 1,2 or 3
- do I know my opponent's deck list (means: do I know his specific cnfiguration (and playstyle))
- on the draw or on the play

If you have this in mind, you can make your decisions concerning your hand. Hands without real cantrips which in addition lack tutor or AdN oftentimes get mulled away. Just ask yourself: Can I win with this hand on its own or do I have to draw certain cards in order to make action? You do not want to depend on your draw step from the beginning of the match. We have at least 8-12 real cantrips + 4 Probes and against bad MU where you have to win fast (Reanimator/Miracles) it is better to mull aggressively. On the other hand, one may argue that against certain bad MUs keeping a riscy hand is sometimes the way to go. I guess this problem expends the scope of my willingness to elaborate on that. :cool:

It is also bound to the player's experience level and comes with time.

@wonderPreaux: boarding in Swarms depends firts of all by your sideboarding strategy and the plan you are thinking about for games 2 and 3. I tend to play game 1 as fast as I can, since we cannot beat a top + a balance or even a top + counter on top of the deck. So, I play the second and the third games way too conservative, since the have a really really slow clock. I board in Xantid Swarm and Dark Confidant as creatures and my 3 Decays to deal with CB and Top. Not boarding Swarm for me it would be a damage, since all the plowshares will hit Confidant, so I can say that my two creatures are helping one the other to stay alive. You could say that it could be better not to board any creature, but let's have a quick comparison: creatures vs. no creatures :smile: If you don't have any creature they surely have 4 blanks, but what's 4 in a deck of 60? As soon as they will realize that you don't have any creature they'll Brainstorm and fetch stp away. Even if they do not, in the fear of a possible topdeck, it's just 1 dead card in a hand of a deck that can keep it quite full all the time. If you have creatures, first of all they have to draw that 4 cards! And we can assume they'll first look for Flusterstorms, Counterbalances and FoWs before any removal. Then, if you have a creature to sneak into play, you can just Duress or Seize your opponent, discard Stp, and then try to play that guy. If they Fow my guy I'm really happy, it's card advantage, 2 for 1, since Flusterstorm and Spell Pierces have no power on creatures. That also because playing a creature is not our main plan, so I'm happy if it gets countered, but I'm also happy to have it into play, since they produce enormous advantage, especially Confidant. If I have a Bob and they find a Stp after 2/3 turns it's not any problem, since I drew 2/3 additional cards.
To conclude my post, I can say that vs. Miracles my plan is to play as many bombs as I can without any hurry. You'll find that they can't have a response to everything. It's just about playing really well your discard and your cantrips. You have to deny them to lay on a Counterbalance, after that games 2 and 3 are really in our favour I believe :smile:

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Originally Posted by afb0032

Random question for other ANT players: How aggressive are you with your mulligans against different archetypes? I've been doing a lot more in depth analysis about my opening hands and find that I seldom mulligan. I'm asking this because I believe it is a weaker point in my game and want to get some outside perspective. What makes you most likely to keep/ship a slow hand? Are there any specific parameters you feel your 7 must absolutely meet for certain matchups (in this instance assume you know what your opponent is playing)? What about hands with multiple discard spells, a gitaxian probe, land/rituals, but no other cantrips or tutors?

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Almost never, unless it's impotent nolander or my position requires specific card T1 - like discard on draw vs Belcher / D+T, cannot win T1 and is terrible in most likely scenarios the game will start with... so yeah basicaly experience and do not mulligan unless I really have to, keeping reasonable nolanders with probe on draw, btw. I have the worst experience with lands+blue hands...

I've done xx goldfishes on 7,6,5 keeping literary everything to map how my deck behaves how fast and which way I win most, how many discard I see etc. and came to this..., note that I do not play "standard" build and every SB setup differs

Hey, guys. I need some advice. I can't figure out my sideboard slots and I've finally given up and decided to ask you guys. I'm just grinding out Opens and need a board good against the field.

My list:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
2 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 LED

4 Infernal Tutor

1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island

My board:
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chain of Vapor
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Massacre
1 Ad Nauseam

I couldn't decide on the last slot. Maybe the 4th Decay? Maybe Grim Tutor? I debated cutting the 4th Chain and putting two Tops in the side? Maybe a 2nd Ad Nauseam for Combo match-ups? Possible a Slaughter Pact or a Deathmark? I even debated a Meditate. I've been frustrated for a week about this. What do I do? Maybe the 4th Duress or a Hymn to Tourach or a Chrome Mox for speed?