[Primer] Eldrazi Stompy

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Originally Posted by Noloam_

that almost looks like the optimal list. but i whould be cutting 1 city of traitors and 1 petal. dubbel petal is a mulligan. it seems that there are to much lands. thats quite bad against shardless. i whould be playing 2 dismembers

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Depends on the hand. Double Petal hands are still keepable as long as they enable enough broken. There's no guarantee that the next hand might not be a screw up.

@Cire: While 4 Factories are better, 3 copies are still sufficient. And I prefer to run 2 City of Traitors. That brings the manabase down to 25 lands. If you only want to run 2 Factories, it would bring the land number to 24, which seems way more sane.

Remember that the original list looked like this - and there's alot in that approach I can agree with, hence my interest in the RW version.

Maybe 1 Displacer or Obligator can be moved to the board? For this very reason, I want to learn more about the power level of Obligator.

I'll be fiddling around with the numbers a bit with my suggested first draft of the list - maybe I'll cut 2x City instead and replace them with 2 Factories since the deck has 1 more Lotus Petal to compensate as far as Chalice @1 goes.

Okay - I'll try playing around with the Factory CWRgb list's numbers (love that we're playing 4 colors :tongue:).

City is a good cut, but petal is needed to reach the necessary saturation of Red/White mana.

If you cut it to 25 lands - I would first run 1 Jitte + 1 Dismember. If you cut it to 24 lands - I would add in a Warping Wail over a 2nd Dismember.

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Originally Posted by Cire

If you cut it to 25 lands - I would first run 1 Jitte + 1 Dismember. If you cut it to 24 lands - I would add in a Warping Wail over a 2nd Dismember.

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Meta call - I have no idea how the list plays. Besides, I would still prefer a list with both, if possible. Although I can't tell how Obligator changes the need for removal.

EDIT:
@josch6083: Chaos Warp sounds like an interesting solution to Blood Moon since it can be even cast under it, reducing the need for World Breaker in the SB. I'm not sure in what other match-ups it's relevant due to the backfire potential, although the ability to kill any permanent is tempting.

But EoT Chaos Warping someone's fatty into play to steal it with Obligator next turn sounds hilarious, Magical Christmasland be damned.

Having recently ran bant eldrazi in modern, I was wondering if there was some way to work out the mana base into using more of the green in w/g eldrazi. Ancient stirrings felt amazing everytime I cast it, and I can imagine it would be doubly so in legacy eldrazi especially since itll allow us to filter for more lock pieces and mana as well. Maybe even the noble hieharch would be good just for the exalted which allows smashers to get over anglers and thought knots over typical 4/5 gofys. This might end up diluting too much of the explosiveness but the consistency does have some merit. On the other flip side, both of those cards also eat it from our chalice on 1.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Meta call - I have no idea how the list plays. Besides, I would still prefer a list with both, if possible. Although I can't tell how Obligator changes the need for removal.

EDIT:
@josch6083: Chaos Warp sounds like an interesting solution to Blood Moon since it can be even cast under it, reducing the need for World Breaker in the SB. I'm not sure in what other match-ups it's relevant due to the backfire potential, although the ability to kill any permanent is tempting.

But EoT Chaos Warping someone's fatty into play to steal it with Obligator next turn sounds hilarious, Magical Christmasland be damned.

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I'm treating 3-4 Obligator as 1 removal really - since i'm not always using Obligator as a steal - and when I am it's usually to win the game. And I would prefer to run "5" removal - so 2 Jitte, 1 Wail, 1 Dismember, 3-4 Olbigator. Again, though i've only started testing it, so i'm not sure about this beyond theory craft either.

As for Chaos Warp, that sounds hilarious, but remember that 8! of our red sources only work for Eldrazi Creatures! To run Warp, you'll have to change the manabase ALOT. Additionally, running any color of eldrazi creature with the mana base of 4 Corrupted Crossroad, 4 Caverns of Souls, 4 Lotus Petal, can work. I mean honestly we can run strangler, downer, displacer, worldbreaker and Obligator. Not that we would, just that i don't think we need to look for ways to avoid running worldbreaker.

To all the colorless eldrazi players:

what do you find the most consistent manabase for the deck and why?

i am playing 2 lists.

first list:

4 eye
4 tomb
4 temple
2 city
4 factory
2 urborg
4 cavern
1 tower of the magistrate



when i play this list i play 3 reshaper and 2 endbringer. because this manabase is makes it easy to ramp to endbringer


second list:

4 eye
4 tomb
4 temple
2 city
3 factory
1 urborg
2 wasteland
4 cavern
1 tower of the magistrate


when i play this list i play 4 reshaper and 1 endbringer. because wastelanding your opponent and casting endbringer is not going to happen. wasteland seems great vs shardless and the mirror.


i also play the tower because i see a LOT of esper and bug decks. last 7 matches i encoutered, were 5 times BUG and 2 times esper. it was a sad day :(. tower also works against phantasmal image

I prefer the first list for the reason you already noted namely: easier casting Worldbreaker. BUT, I really don't like 4 Eye & 2 Urborg. I would replace one of each with either 2 Wastes or 2 crystal vein.

Does anyone have a sb plan they like vs Delver? I tried a lot of different things last night (over 3 hours) and don't like any of them.

Every card is too situational.

I think the most dangerous draws they have are Delver + wasteland (nightmare scenario is + daze). Thorn and Chalice Effects are fine if you draw and play them early but don't help vs their decent draws only against their worst ones.

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Originally Posted by toor

Does anyone have a sb plan they like vs Delver? I tried a lot of different things last night (over 3 hours) and don't like any of them.

Every card is too situational.

I think the most dangerous draws they have are Delver + wasteland (nightmare scenario is + daze). Thorn and Chalice Effects are fine if you draw and play them early but don't help vs their decent draws only against their worst ones.

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-2 thorns (if you play 2 like me)
+ 2 wasteland.

it just works. i went 3 times 4-1 today. dont know if that is a good thing :/

Hey Noloam,

I'm the player behind H0cusP0cus account.

I tried wasteland for a long time and i think it's not reliable to fight deathrite's shaman decks (shardless or delver). they play their own wastelands so most of the time we cannot afford sacrifice our wasteland.
DRS unbalance completly this fight for resources even if they draw it later.
Of course, there are somes sequences you can win the ressources war with fast clock, but it's pretty unusual.

I think best arguments to play wasteland are :
- get somes random free wins against low land opponent hand
- destroy problematic lands like rishadan port / maze oh ith / glacial clasm / dark depth + thespian's stage
- get an advantage for the mirror
- lock an opponent where thorn of amethyst matter (ANT / Sneakshow), sometimes it's works pretty well againt miracle but a good old fashion chalice x=1 do a better job ;)
- destroy our lands to do not loose against price of progress

I'm running a test version impispred from a japanese tournament featuring (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/jp/k/kD03170W/) :
4 eye
4 temple
4 city
4 tomb
3 urborg
4 cavern
2 tower

To exploit this heavy producing manabase, this list include traditional eldrazi creatures package + 4 oblivion sower + 1 Nullamog.
I'm actually impressed by the consistency of this build, and some times broken things happen like Ulamog hardcast turn 4 ... lol
I'm curently running 4/0 in league and cross my fingers for last match.

In a traditionnal coloreless build, I prefer a 3/3 split between eye and city.
both are not impressive activating factory i guess and running urborg over land utilities (karakas / tower / basic waste) can be justify by playing much ccm6 drop.
I like the full set of city and somes spirit guide to cast TKS or smasher as soon as possible to crush games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toor

Does anyone have a sb plan they like vs Delver? I tried a lot of different things last night (over 3 hours) and don't like any of them.

Every card is too situational.

I think the most dangerous draws they have are Delver + wasteland (nightmare scenario is + daze). Thorn and Chalice Effects are fine if you draw and play them early but don't help vs their decent draws only against their worst ones.

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a third jitte on sideboard really shine in this matchup, as spatial contorsion.
spirit guide is also important to pay their daze, if delver is a big part of your metagame you can play 3 guide
warping wail is pretty good but didn't works against flipped delver

thorn is really bad againt delver, most of the time you tempo yourself more than delver player and give their wasteland way more value.
obviously, you should abort as possible to use ancien tomb unless you can race really hard or connect a jitte

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Originally Posted by Discus

Hey Noloam,

I'm the player behind H0cusP0cus account.

I tried wasteland for a long time and i think it's not reliable to fight deathrite's shaman decks (shardless or delver). they play their own wastelands so most of the time we cannot afford sacrifice our wasteland.
DRS unbalance completly this fight for resources even if they draw it later.
Of course, there are somes sequences you can win the ressources war with fast clock, but it's pretty unusual.

I think best arguments to play wasteland are :
- get somes random free wins against low land opponent hand
- destroy problematic lands like rishadan port / maze oh ith / glacial clasm / dark depth + thespian's stage
- get an advantage for the mirror
- lock an opponent where thorn of amethyst matter (ANT / Sneakshow), sometimes it's works pretty well againt miracle but a good old fashion chalice x=1 do a better job ;)
- destroy our lands to do not loose against price of progress

I'm running a test version impispred from a japanese tournament featuring (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/jp/k/kD03170W/) :
4 eye
4 temple
4 city
4 tomb
3 urborg
4 cavern
2 tower

To exploit this heavy producing manabase, this list include traditional eldrazi creatures package + 4 oblivion sower + 1 Nullamog.
I'm actually impressed by the consistency of this build, and some times broken things happen like Ulamog hardcast turn 4 ... lol
I'm curently running 4/0 in league and cross my fingers for last match.

In a traditionnal coloreless build, I prefer a 3/3 split between eye and city.
both are not impressive activating factory i guess and running urborg over land utilities (karakas / tower / basic waste) can be justify by playing much ccm6 drop.
I like the full set of city and somes spirit guide to cast TKS or smasher as soon as possible to crush games.

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hey hocuspocus! first of all, thank you for your contribution to the colorless build. you have had some great results. i stole the 1 tower main idea from you

you are abosolutely right about wasteland vs delver decks. the point is, you dont play them for the delver decks. they are indeed great vs the mirror, lands, loampox (which caused my 4-1 today), shardless and elves (cradle). i also play the sphere sideboard, so wasteland will give that card more vallue.

yes i also saw that list. i never tested it, but i love to see how sower works. i cutted my 2nd urborg for now (in my wasteland list), i drew the 2nd piece to many times late game. i have a hard time justifying 3 of them. but i guess you need the for your fatties

i also ponderd about the fattie plan. perhaps the cloudpost/vesuva/eye/temple/tomb/glimmerpost plan could be working.

i hope you go 5-0 ;)!

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Originally Posted by Discus

a third jitte on sideboard really shine in this matchup, as spatial contorsion.
spirit guide is also important to pay their daze, if delver is a big part of your metagame you can play 3 guide
warping wail is pretty good but didn't works against flipped delver

thorn is really bad againt delver, most of the time you tempo yourself more than delver player and give their wasteland way more value.
obviously, you should abort as possible to use ancien tomb unless you can race really hard or connect a jitte

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I disagree. I tried playing a set of 6 games where I started with Jitte in hand and it wasn't effective in the close games. My opponent had 2 decays, 1 grudge + the usualy instant speed removal. And I found it very difficult to commit to a jitte since, if they wasteland you its often 2 turns worth of mana investment. I can't imagine wanting the third. Maybe if I played a lot of factories this would be viable.

I agree with thorn being bad. But I like the idea of a 28th mana source (not wasteland).

Testing report and changes to list from here.

I cut an Obligator and decided that I do not need 13 red sources for 3 Obligator's. This allows me to switch the Forge back to a Karakas. I have made this change, perhaps because I over rely on Karakas to help me against S&T and Reanimator. However, I have found that 3 Obligators is more than fine. I have so far been happy with drawing them in my hand, and don't really wish to see them with more frequency than other cards.

-1 Eldrazi Obligator
-1 Battlefield Forge
+1 Karakas

I actually really like the tech of tower of the magistrate. It has helped me a lot in completely random situations. It's especially helpful against Esper decks and other SFM decks. I have decided to cut 1 City of Traitors, since having 3 keeps screwing me over (at times, other times, drawing a COT is a gift from the gods).

-1 City of Traitors
+1 Tower of the magistrate

Finally, in terms of removal. I believe that the proper amount of removal for this deck is 5 cards. So far, from what I can tell Obligators, occasionally function as removal, but only if you're going for alpha strike. As such I count all 3 remaining Obligators as 1 removal spell in terms of the decks total. That still means that 1 want to run 4 other spells. I honestly constantly change my removal suite, so at this point, just for place holders I would like to add 1 Dismember, 1 Wail, and 1 All is Dust (which with the Jitte makes 4). This means we need to remove 2 more cards to make room. I'm currently going with the Factories unless I can come up with something better.

So

-2 Mishra's Factory
+1 Dismember
+1 Warping Wail
+1 All is Dust

In the end, my list has a lot of singletons, and looks like a complete mashup of all the different ideas that we have on the table. However, It works well as far as I can tell. I would still like to readd the other two factories, and I would like to actually figure out my removal suite. I do not think it's okay for me to just run a bunch of singletons.

Edit: Additionally due to the changes in the main board the SB has the following changes:

SB/ 15

- 1 Dismember
- 1 Warping Wail
- 1 Tower of the Magistrate
- 1 All is Dust
+1 Karakas
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Tormond's Crypt
+1 Wasteland Strangler

Strangler is just for fun - as it's a beating against decks with Delve/FOW, and with 2 AID, 1 Dismember, 1 Wail, 1 Jitte, 3 Obligators you have enough removal anyway. Also it's fun being able to play a 5 "color" deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toor

Does anyone have a sb plan they like vs Delver? I tried a lot of different things last night (over 3 hours) and don't like any of them.

Every card is too situational.

I think the most dangerous draws they have are Delver + wasteland (nightmare scenario is + daze). Thorn and Chalice Effects are fine if you draw and play them early but don't help vs their decent draws only against their worst ones.

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Warping wail or dismember to take out delver. Delver is your biggest threat because that is the only thing that you wont be able to block except late late game with worldbreaker, so kill it at all costs, esp with wail pre flip. I personally save my elvish spirit guides to pay for daze instead of going all out unless I have cavern of souls out because daze is incredible vs eldrazi since we want to play on curve.

If you are running up against bug or ug delver, bring in 4 leylines of voids. Shutting off their gofys and gooses goes a long way in both matchups. Grixis feels like a toss up having played with and against it. If they get a t1 blind flip delver with counters, you pretty much lost unless u can land a scenario of cavern of souls, dismembers, chalices, etc. If they have PoP in the sideboard though, nothing you do will save you.

Spatial contortions if you run em. If you get desparate you can always displacer their delvers to unflip them.

mini report of 2 leagues "reshaperless" lists:

list #1 - instead of 3 reshaper i played warping wail #3 and #4 and spatial contortion #1 - 25 lands with 2 tower of magistrate 4 mishra's factory (no wasteland)
list #2 - same as list #1 but no spatial contortion replaced by second endbringer

I am testing the deck in real life tournament since 1 month and half now and I have always found reshaper the weakest card in the deck...always siding it out and never really gaining advantage from it...

both leagues finished 4-1 - in the first one I lost to jeskai blade - he used pretty much all resources to kill me...like 3 bolts 3 wasteland...while in the second league i lost one of the 4 matches with miracles.

in the two leagues combined I faced miracles 6 times...was it just casual or is the most played deck online? 60% of the league field seems to me crazy

6 miracles
1 jeskai blade
1 mirror eldrazi colorless
1 enchantress UG (cloud of faeries/curio combo)
1 reanimator

pretty much the summary of this experience is: I think we are super favorite against miracles
they cannot deal with the combination of cavern, wail, chalice, thorn, eye of ugin recursion, thought-knot seer, every card we play is a virtual threat.
post side I played against several solution proposed by miracles - path to exile - blood moon - energy field/rip - nahiri/emrakul - i think we should board something to deal with enchantments (karn? all is dust? nevinyrral's disk?)

today unfortunately I will not be able to play...

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Originally Posted by the_goat

nahiri/emrakul - i think we should board something to deal with enchantments (karn? all is dust? nevinyrral's disk?).

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Karn is kinda nifty since he can remove Bridges as well, but 7 non-Eldrazi mana is way too much to ask for. Sure, you could run Grim Monolith to support him, but at that point, why not just run All is Dust instead?

i agree with barook. when you have a temple and eye in your hand, then you still need 6 more mana. you are in magic christmassland, before you are casting karn in that situation

I am finding that paper magic seems to be very different from MTGO. Some of the decks listed as matches for MTGO never show up in our area. I've been testing the following build for three weeks and will take it to our tournament tomorrow night.

I removed 3 of the Matter Reshaper. They didn't seem strong enough. I added a Kozilek's Channeler x 2 and found it was too much. Dropped it back to x1 and it seems really good. I see Moat here and added Eldrazi Monument to my board, and with the RDW and UR Delver crowds I've added Honorable Passage, almost exclusively as a response to Price of Progress. I also see Maverick and D&T, so I've added Virtue's Ruin to the board. I ran that last time and it was awesome.

Two Warping Wail's and three Spatial Contortion's in the main are working well for me. I can't remember being sorry to see them.

I find three All Is Dust are required, as are four Leyline of the Void.

Jace, the Mind Sculptor has been pissing me off. I removed my Jitte's in favor of a single Sword of Fire and Ice. In testing I've been very pleased with it.

The two Phyrexian Revoker's in the main have been fabulous. I wish they could turn off lands....LOL.

Anyway, this list is final for the tourney tomorrow and I'll post results on Friday.

Eldrazi Stompy (DH v21)

4 Endless One
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Matter Reshaper
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Kozilek's Channeler
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Warping Wail
3 Spatial Contortion
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

1 Karakas
1 Wastes
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Caves of Koilos
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin

Sideboard
1 Wastes
1 Warping Wail
3 Honorable Passage
3 Virtue's Ruin
4 Leyline of the Void
3 All Is Dust

could you tell me in which matches the SOFAI shines? jitte is the greatest card vs burn and elves imo.



btw,gratz with your 5-0 btw hocuspocus!