Okay, that's the official bell. Black's going in Goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes
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Okay, that's the official bell. Black's going in Goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes
Yep time to dust of gobs and get badlands :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes
Incidentally, the Weirding is good enough on its own, but Wort + Weirding is just ri-fucking-diculous. It makes Volrath's Stronghold + Shriekmaw look like a casual combo.
I'm glad I don't play Standard.
This edict is shit: it sucks in the mirror!
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL :tongue:
If this is true it's going to revamp Goblin a lot. I love it!
It's not really going to revamp it. At most, I'm going to cut Gempalm Incinerator for it. It might, however, get me to cut Tarmagoyf.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
I'm currently debating actually keeping my white splash just because swords vs. goyf is actually gaurenteed to hit the goyf vs. the edict, sure this turns a shitty matron late game into tokens but idk.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
I don't understand why people are still running white in Goblins. Swords? Aight, sure, it's the best removal spell ever printed. But Smother does the exact same thing. And you get Wort. Wort is nuts. Like Peter North busting an eight roper over your girlfriend's chest nuts.
You're giving that up for what? Orim's Chant? What the fuck ever.
Actually If I could splash black I would I already picked up enough Worts I gut foil ones foreign ones, etc. but thats not the point, my decks worked fine against thresh or anything else with the white splash, and if it is working fine like it is why should i Invest in another friggen set of duals..Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
Actually, why don't people play Terminate as their removal if they are going to splash Black?Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
People dont play Termimate because it cannot be fetched with Ringleader/Matron, and cannot be recurred with Wort. Also, you may not always have RB with 6-8 colorless producing lands. Some people play Smother, but Gempalm usually can get the job done.
I can see this new Edict being at LEAST a 1-of in goblins for tutor up and Wort recursion action, it certainly doesnt obsolete Gempalm but it does give it some competition/help.
Sensation Gorger
1rr
Creature - Goblin Shaman Rare
Kinship - At the beginning of your upkeep, you may look at the top card of your library. If it shares a creature type with Sensation Gorger you may reveal it. If you do, each player discards his or her hand and draws four cards.
“More. More. MORE!!”
2/2
Hmm... is it just me or does this seem very very good? Its basically a super ringleader every turn. The down side is, of course, your opponents gets to draw the cards too. There probably isn't any room in the deck for this guy. Thoughts?
I think he is terrible, it draws your opponent into threats/answers, and hes just a 2/2 to boot. Id rather have Ringleader any day of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper
I agree. Sensation Gorger is kind of ehh. Card for card, Goblins is one of the weakest decks in the format, and generally four of their random cards are stronger than four of your random cards. Also, thanks in large part to Ringleader, your hand tends to be more full than your opponent's.
I've never been a huge fan of Goblins but post-Morningtide I'll really consider making this deck, there're just so many insane things comming...
I'm thinking of something along the lines of:
No Wastelands because the deck tends to be quite manahungry and I've always found a single, non-recursive, Wasteland effect not strong enough for the tempo loss it creates.Code://// Mainboard (60 cards)
/// Lands (22)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
1 Stomping Grounds
4 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
4 Rishadan Port
/// Non-Goblins (8)
4 AEther Vial
4 Survival of the Fittest
/// Goblins (30)
// Non-creatures (2)
2 "That new Sorcery speed Edict"
// Creatures (28)
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 "That new Warchief"
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
3 Siege-Gang Comander
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Gempalm Incinerator
//// Sideboard (15 cards)
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Goblin King
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Krosan Grip
3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
Survival because it's friggin' ridonculus giving this deck an actual curve (and not a hole in the 2-slot) and another "I win the game" card that is actually pretty likely to resolve with all the other must-handles that you pack.
The 2/1 Edict/Incinerator split because edit is usually better but there are some situations where you need the targetet removal effect (eg mirror, random aggro etc).
The one new Warchief is there to smooth the curve. I don't know yet how strong he's and if I'll add in more.
Any Ideas?
That should be a list focused on winning the Aggro-Control matchup:
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [B] Badlands
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [7E] Mountain (1)
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [P3] Swamp (2)
2 [MM] Rishadan Port
// Creatures
4 [7E] Goblin Matron
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
1 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
2 [LRW] Wort, Boggart Auntie
4 [10E] Mogg Fanatic
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [MOR] Warren Weirding
2-3 Incinerators are probably enough, as they are effective in the middle game, when some number of goblins are already on the table. You probably want weirding every game and early in the game, and probably in multiples, so 4 it's ok.
Warren Weirding pros:
- Smooths up the curve.
- Kills Goyf.
- It's a goblin: improve your Ringleaders and it's great with Wort and Matron
- Is huge vs thresh, as it can kill Mongoose too. Mongoose is not anymore a Lackey solution.
- Is good vs huge beaters like equipped creatures, protected creatures, creatures with shroud, or regeneration, Exhalted Angels, Sea Drake, etc.
- Unlike Gempalm, it's really effective early in the game.
- Unlike Gempalm, it can't be Needled, Stifled
Cons:
- It's easily counterable. Gets hit by Spell Snare and Counterbalance.
- It doesn't cycle (meh)
- It sux in the mirror
- It's not great vs other decks with loads of critters
- It's not a creature: there are times where the 2/1 body of incinerator was useful. However, the ability of making 2 hasty tokens can be useful vs control.
- It's sorcery speed. This can be an issue vs Vial decks and Manlands. Can't be used for tricks in the combat step.
@Freund: Survival is yet to explore in goblins, but I don't think it has a lot of potential. Survival requires a good amount of Green mana (so you have to drop some amount of LD package), and it really does nothing to disrupt/beat the opponent NOW. You already tend to have a good amount of cards in hand thanks to Wort, Matron, Ringleader, Gempalm, so a card that generates card advantage in the late game is not what the deck was looking for IMO. It also asks you to run some suboptimal cards like Squee. Drawing multiples if the first stuck is not really good too. As with any other card you have to fit in a tribal deck you have to ask yourself: is this thing any better than a Goblin card?
Survival has good sinergy with lackey and vial though (but if you have a Vial out or a connecting Lackey you should already be winning). It probably needs a dedicated build quite different from "standard" decklists, like Food Chain Goblins attempted to do.
See, I actually think this guy is good. I see him as a discard spell. Here's the pro's I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper
1. Against combo he makes sure they have to win turn 1/2 or they'll never win. They'll never have more than 4 cards in hand which will slow them down tremendously.
2. Against decks like thresh he ruins one of their strategies which is to mold your hand after playing the cantrips you need.
3. Against control decks he limits the cards in their hand. He's a bomb here.
I'd at least test him out before dishing him to the side, he's just too good. Here's a list I may try out:
Mana: 23
3 Port
3 Waste
4 B. Mire
3 Foothills
4 Badlands
4 Mountains
2 Taiga
Utility: 5
4 Vile
1 Warren Weirding
Creatures: 32
4 Lackey
4 Fanatic
3 Piledriver
1 Tin-Street
4 Matron
2 Incinerator
4 Warchief
3 Sensation Gorger
4 Ringleader
1 Wart
2 Seige-Gang
Sideboard: 15
4 Krosan Grip
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Crypt
3 other???
I noticed as of late that Wasteland was becoming more and more sucky and more contraproductive to your own strategy than harmfull to your opponents. Manabases just aren't so easy to disrupt anymore, so I don't see a reason not to drop down on the Wastelands. You can keep the Ports as they are basically the same but provide mana when you need it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
I disagree... if you manage to stick a Survival and start the engine, you have won, your opponent just might not have noticed yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
You can't rely on your other means of generating card advantage to work all the time... if they do, you're likely to have won anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
Just see Survival as another must handle/standalone threat that wins the game, just like Wort and Ringleader with the difference that it does so from turn2 onwards.
You have exactly one 'dead' draw without survival and Squee is actually not all that bad as he pumps Piledriver, is revealed by Ringleader and flings for 2 every turn with SGC.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
To repeat myself: if one of these sticks, you have won so a few dead draws are affordable.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
It takes your second turn to play survival and your third turn to start the engine. That's not a big deal for a deck that wants to win on turn 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_imaginäre_Freund
Survival can be a great card, but when does this deck empties his hand? on turn 6-7?
Survival is exactly good at doing this, but it slows the deck down. While Wort's and Ringleader's ability don't cost a thing other than their casting cost (which can be cheated with Warchiefs, Vial, Lackey and the new 2cc Warchief), Survival costs 1GG to have it first activation and 1GGG to have the squee engine running. And Survival doesn't beat on its own (a thing ringleader and Wort do)Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_imaginäre_Freund
I'm not saying that survival is a bad card, or that it can't fit into gobbos. I'm just saying that to take advantage of it the deck needs to slow down. A deck without survival has 5 more slots to work with that are Ringleaderable. You probably can afford to run 5 more creature removal to strenghten your aggrocontrol matchup, or to play 2 more Wort to gain additional card advantage, etc.
Survival probably helps in the control matchup a lot. It can also help in SB strategy, where SBing just a creature can function as a tutorable solution. That is cool. I'm thinking about something like Jailer or omething to deal with enchantments or just tarmogoyfs or fledgling dragons to tutor for when there's 2x plague, or Caller of the Claw against Pyroclasm/Wrath/Pernicious Deed.
actually my main problems before were not tarmo which I could deal with easily since I splash white, I was have trouble with nimble mongoose and silver knight and this my friends is the answer I think:
Warren Weirding - 1B
Tribal Sorcery - Goblin
Target player sacrifices a creature. If a Goblin is sacrificed this way, that player puts two 1/1 black Goblin Rogue creature tokens into play, and those tokens gain haste until end of turn.
As the others mentioned it can be fetched, by ringleader and matron and can be recurred by wort, hmm maybe black splash is the way to go.
I give up.
Wasteland>>>>>>>(ad infinum) Rishadan Port.
The new warchief sucks.
Black splash is infinitely better than the white one, and has been for months.
7 Incinerator/Weirding effects is overkill.
Gorger is... interesting. I'm not saying he's good, but I'm not saying he's bad. He's the one goblin from Lorwyn I can look at and not know for sure if he sucks or not without trying him out.