[Deck] Armageddon Stax

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Originally Posted by f|i[p]

Sorry skeggi ,

I rephrased my comment about it. Im not so sure about mindsencor since just like other creatures which have a low toughness, their just too easy to kill. And supression field doesn't really stop fetches or jitte, it delays them, but then again delaying the game might be what we only need.

It may have been good if it was 3 to cast though. So I'm not so sure, supression fields are good, but at times I really want 8 of them., this could serve supression fields 5-8. Just try em out.. No need to dismiss anything new.

Im not sure about this one.. if its real or just rumors for now.

Elsperth, Knight Errant - 2ww

Planeswalker - Elsperth (M)
+1: Put two white 1/1 Human Soldier creature tokens into play.
+1: Target creature gets +3/+3 and gains flying until end of turn.
-8: Permanents you control gain indestructible. (This effect does not end at end of turn.)
4

Could be good...

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Mindlock Orb would not replace Suppression Field, but rather be played in addition to. The Orb (if real) is also much better than Aven Mindcensor. While Mindcensor will beat, Orb is harder to remove, doesn't have a Tabernacle upkeep, and turns off Survival instead of hamstringing it. The reaction with Flagstones is sub-optimal, but so is Mindcensor.

If the Planeswalker is real in this form, I am pretty close to thinking this is an auto-include (at least as a 2-of). I understand that it will take a few turns to set up a 'win' with this, but it would actually advance your position while not keeping you from doing other things, that's pretty powerful for something that can hit as early as turn 2 (I know you can get lucky and land it turn 1 - just being realistic) and being able to protect itself fairly well. The simple number of 'broken' opportunities with this guy is enough potential to warrant testing.

-FB...

With Mindlock Orb, Ghost Quarter become a really nice card. Could it replace Wasteland?

The most obvious aspect of this guy is that you can EASILY support Smokestack at 2 with him in play. That's such a beating. Or just providing 2 chump blockers while you set up more lock pieces is so good.

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Originally Posted by Elric19

With Mindlock Orb, Ghost Quarter become a really nice card. Could it replace Wasteland?

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Ghost quarter would be strip mine with mindlock orb in play. But then you would have to wait for mindlock orb before it becomes one.. It becomes a 2 card combo,(3 with crucible), which will be quite slow. I don't think it can replace all the wasteland, but maybe you can replace a single wastelad and test it.


OK.. this just came out from mtgsalvation spoilers:

not almost as good as it was rumored to be but its still worth testing.

instead of 2 tokens, it becomes 1 token.. I wish it was 2 though...

still not that bad...I'm not sure how the last ability works, if everything you put down even after you use the 3rd ability ends up being indestructible.


Elspeth, Knight Errant 2ww

Planeswalker - Elspeth Mythic Rare

+1: Put one 1/1 white Soldier token into play.
+1: Target creature gets +3/+3 and gains flying until end of turn.
-8: For the rest of the game, all your enchantments, artifacts, creatures, and land are indestructible.
4

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Originally Posted by f|i[p]

I'm not sure how the last ability works, if everything you put down even after you use the 3rd ability ends up being indestructible.

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Only what's in play when you activate gets affected by it. It's as if your enchantments, artifacts, creatures and land in play gain the "Indestructible" ability.

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Originally Posted by Jaiminho

Only what's in play when you activate gets affected by it. It's as if your enchantments, artifacts, creatures and land in play gain the "Indestructible" ability.

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Newest word on the street is that it's from the point you activate it onward.

I think it will be from that point on. I think anything you play onward will be indestructible. It says "are", not "Gains indestructible". It would seem that anything new in play will become indestructible every time gamestate checks every time for the rest of the game.

Clearly it will be ruled on, and if done so in this way, will be a shoo-in for this deck. It will still be decent ruled the other way as Jaiminho stated, but not as good as it could be

What would be dropped? I'd recommend dropping Angels, or better than that I'd drop Magii. Tokens would become a better win-con that definitely are anti-synergistic with Tabernacle effects. However, active stax on 1 + armageddon is awesome. Also, it acts as a CoW, producing a sac outlet while still ramping up counters on it.

Pce,

--DC

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Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87

What would be dropped? I'd recommend dropping Angels, or better than that I'd drop Magii. Tokens would become a better win-con that definitely are anti-synergistic with Tabernacle effects. However, active stax on 1 + armageddon is awesome. Also, it acts as a CoW, producing a sac outlet while still ramping up counters on it.

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Most Stax decks have 2-4 meta slots. Fitting in something potentially hot like this is no problem.

Mtg salvation has pictures of Mindlock orb... it has U in its casting cost

so its 3U

its still not hard to cast with the mox diamonds though.

Ethersword cannonist 1W
artifact creature

Each player who has played a nonartifact spell this turn can't play additional nonartifact spells.

2/2

I don't think this will actually fit in that much, its basically rule of law on non artifact spells on legs.But it could be an option if you have Rule of law on your sideboard as it comes a turn faster..It may work for the more artifact oriented builds of stax but affinity more likely.

Rule of Law ON LEGS. A Rule of Law with a CLOCK. That could be good against storm combo. Against D-Day FT lists featuring Krosan Grip instead of Wipe Away, this is a 1-card lock game one. Game 2 it has access to Massacre/Pyroclasm and/or Slaughter Pact/Sudden Death, and then a slew of bounce, but still. It's game 1 under your belt. That's pretty awesome. I think it's slightly worse against TES as they have Burning Wishes for some form of removal (Pyrclasm's a sorcery, for instance), but still. Trinisphere/Chalice are still there, and it makes them wish for bounce/removal, wasting resources, buying you more time to get more of a lock down. Cool.

This is turning into a bit of a decent set for stax. Tezzeret, this, and the white Planeswalker. I'm starting to get a bit anxious. :cool:

That hasn't happened since Onslaught (can you believe I'm STILL PISSED about the "new" card face? Talk about a grudge...).

Pce,

--DC

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Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87

Rule of Law ON LEGS. A Rule of Law with a CLOCK. That could be good against storm combo. Against D-Day FT lists featuring Krosan Grip

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Well, they often have a bounce card like Echoing Truth.

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Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87

This is turning into a bit of a decent set for stax. Tezzeret, this, and the white Planeswalker. I'm starting to get a bit anxious. :cool:

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We used to be excited about Ajani Vengeant too...where did that go?

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Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87

That hasn't happened since Onslaught

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Onslaught: Exalted Angel
Legions: Windborn Muse

2 card, of which some people aren't even sure they belong in Stax.

Mirrodin: Chalice of the Void (Rule of Law)
Darksteel: Trinisphere (Darksteel Citadel, Blinkmoth Nexus)
Fifth Dawn: Crucible of Worlds (Silent Arbiter)

Seems like a good block to me, 3 core cards :wink:

Time Spiral: Flagstones of Trokair
Planar Chaos: Magus of the Tabernacle

Also seems like a good block to me, 2 core cards :wink:

I guess it did happen since Onslaught :cool:

Couple of things to consider...

Mindlock with U in the cost probably isn't worth it. You won't want to bend your manabase for a sideboard card and 4 Diamonds isn't consistent enough to support the 2-3 you might want to board in. Especially when you consider we already have access to an on-color (though slightly less effective) search hoser in Aven Mindcensor.

Ethersword Cannonist is not good enough. We already have access to combo hosers with legs - Glowrider, True Believer (to a degree), etc. And none of those are good enough to even get boarded. None of those options die to Naturalize/Krosan Grip either (a point that seems to be overlooked). We already have access to Rule of Law which doesn't get played (and doesn't die to Pyroclasm). Bottomline, neat card but not nearly good enough to crack into the 75.

Elspeth's third ability should work like Jaiminho described - anything in play when the ability is activated (resolved) will become indestructible. I don't understand why it would grant indestructiblility (new word) to anything played after that, e.g. you could remove all loyalty counters to activate the ability, Elspeth is put to graveyard, all permanents you control become indestructible, but nothing you play after that point would even know Elspeth was ever in play. I will be interested when the Shards FAQ is posted next week as I'm sure it will clear this up (assuming that the spoiled text is correct).

I wasn't playing Stax during Onslaught block (don't know why you'd put Angel or Muse into a Stax deck at that point), but I really didn't consider it a viable choice until Mirrodin block (Chalice, Trinisphere, Crucible) and still didn't consider Angel Stax a decent choice until Flagstones of Trokair came out in Time Spiral. I do think that Shards appears to be offering a lot of options for this deck and for the first time in a long time, I'm excited for the fall set's release.

-FB...

Regarding the U in Mindlock orb, its a waste that it is blue, considering I would have ran it to complement suppression field in the side board. Perhaps when the whole set is out, we may even want to splash a tiny bit of color.Who knows for now.

Regarding Ethersworth cannonist, I think she could still be an option for those list who runs rule of law (I have seen a couple of players lists a pages back running 3 rule of law in the sideboard(In a combo heavy meta I assume). She is a beater and doesnt necessarily hinder trinisphere,smokestack or chalice, you can use it by baiting one artifact/spell to get to put down trinisphere, a game ending armageddon or whichever spell you need most, bait 1 spell for another to resolve. since the opponent can only play one non artifact spell a turn, he can only counter 1 spell.I am not saying its better than the other options, I am just saying that she could be a very good option.

Regarding the planeswalkers 3rd ability, The wording isn't clear enough to judge. It clearly doesn't say " in play", so I still think it would be all artifacts,creatures,land and enchantments you play even after the ability resolves would be indestructible for the rest of the game. If it were the only ones in play at that time the ability resolves, it would have been worded differently.

I think this whole set will have a lot to offer all kinds of stax decks.We would just have to wait, and see, since this is my pet deck, I'm really really excited. I hope we get more prison pieces.

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Originally Posted by Skeggi

I know I'm not one of the veterans, but I'll give you my opinion on these questions anyway:

Correct number of Smokestacks is 3: there are simply too much other important things to run in your deck to be able to run 4.

I'm currently playing 4 Trinispheres: this is a killer for alot of decks. I ended up in a 3+ mana-curve meta lately, so Trinisphere obviously loses its value: thinking of cutting 1...

About Angels, Moat and Muse: I'm currently running 2 Angels, 0 Moats and 2 Muses. I'm thinking of making this 3 Angels, 1-2 Moats and 0 Muses. For the second Moat I might cut a Magus (making my list 2 Magus, 1 Land).

For the correct mana configuration: see my list. It's too complicated and playstyle/meta-dependant.

I'm currently running 1 Ravages of War in addition to my 4 Geddons. I'm considering a 1-of Cataclysm (for the slot of the fourth Trinisphere).

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I agree with a lot of this post.

4 Smokestack is just too many, and in the case where your opponent can deal with a Smokestack (keeping up a permanent count) Smokestack is a miserable topdeck.

4 Trinisphere is also optimal. A turn 1 Trinisphere can often buy enough time to make your opponent unable to deal with what you do. Your Crucible or Ghostly Prison or whatever is uncounterable and by the time they can play something you're in the position you need to be. Also, Trinisphere will seal a lot of combo matches game 1, usually games 2 and 3 as well. You don't need to chose a mana cost like with Chalice. Very nice!

My list is at 3 Angel, 1 Moat 3 Prison. I don't like how easy Windborn Muse is to kill, and it's only another Prison effect. When I was running 4 Prisons I considered Muse, but I figured Moat was better, and harder to get rid of.

On a different note, the debate between Kor Haven and Maze of Ith is a weird one. I like the Haven, because the deck is so reliant on mana you can't afford to have lands that don't produce. There will be times when the mana Kor Haven requires will make you lose, but there will be more times when the mana Kor Haven produces will make you win. Each of these lands is to stop Tombstalker (or some other dumbass, I just always happen to stop Tombstalker with it. Local metagame.). Often, in a position where you need to keep 1 creature off your ass, the 2 mana isn't going to matter. Either land will buy you enough time to draw into something good enough to deal with the threat. Maze untaps the attacker however. I can't think of a situation where this is relevant at the moment, but I'm sure it is.

BOOM BABY!

Scourglass :3::w::w:
Artifact
, Sacrifice Scourglass: Destroy all nonland nonartifact permanents. Play this ability only during your upkeep.

5cc is a lot, and you have to wait till the next upkeep, but it's a strong effect.

The only things it blows up are...

Magus of Tabernacle
Ghostly Prison
Exaled Angel/New Angel

But who cares if Magus and Prison blow up if you take out all of your opponents creatures in the process.

This really makes me want to replace Exalted Angel with an artifact win condition.

Karn perhaps.

So it's basically Wrath of God with "Suspend 1: 3WW" ?

No, It's closer to Suspend X, where X= whatever you want decided whenever.

Oh, true. Doesn't make it playable, though.

It's also recurrable with Academy Ruins. Although Academy Ruins has been tested and found to suck. Even if it can recur Engineered Explosives or a Tormod's Crypt from the sideboard; it sucks.

This artifact does have a very strong ability, it's like Nevinyrral's Disk, except it skips killing artifacts, which we like. Also, as Captain Hammer pointed out, if we were to play something like Karn, it wouldn't kill our wincondition; but we don't play Karn, because Karn sucks. But perhaps if we'd use

Sanctum Gargoyle :3::w:
Artifact Creature - Gargoyle
Flying
When Sanctum Gargoyle comes into play, return target artifact card from your graveyard to your hand. 2/3

Or
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3...anonistyn1.jpg

...I still don't think it's worth breaking up the current solid build for.I am affraid that the "only in your upkeep" part probably makes it totally unplayable. It also makes us even more vulnerable to artifact hate, and I'm not very happy with Shattering Spree as it is right now...