You have an extremely underdeveloped meta and it looks like you're pwning n00bs with a reasonably tuned deck. I'd go white splash myself, I think StP is an excellent card that help enable your Standstills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero_2285
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You have an extremely underdeveloped meta and it looks like you're pwning n00bs with a reasonably tuned deck. I'd go white splash myself, I think StP is an excellent card that help enable your Standstills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero_2285
What do you think about a version of Dreadstill with Swords to plowshares and tarmogoyf in main ? Ugw rather than ugr.
4 [ALA] Island (1)
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [R] Tropical Island
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
3 [TE] Wasteland
2 [A] Tundra
// Creatures
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
// Spells
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
3 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [SC] Stifle
1 [TSP] Trickbind
3 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
This is what my meta looks like:Quote:
Originally Posted by URABAHN
2x Belcher
Angel Stax and other Stax variants
3x Meathooks (Countersliver)
1-2x Ichorid
2x ANT
Mono R Burn
2x Solidarity
2x Zoo
2x Afinnity
1-2x UW Landstill
and 3-4 Rogue decks (n00bs)
There is 8-10 solid players I can vouch who know what they are doing, so I wouldn't say underdeveloped. Just not everybody shows up every week. I'm also not sure about StP mb, I'm going to have to test it. Combo runs rampant in my meta so I don't know if it would help me too much. The only MU I can see it helping me in would be Meathooks and Zoo. Plus I don't have any Tundra's.
That looks like a metagame from ~2 years ago. Solidarity? Burn? UW Landstill? You played against Angel Stax in the 3rd Round of your little tournament. That means you were both 2-0. I don't know why you feel the need to defend your metagame and skill level of the participants. Do you feel invalidated when the 8-10 "solid" players fail to show? More importantly, why are you worried about running StP in Dreadstill in a combo meta? I hear Counterbalance is pretty good against Solidarity, Belcher, and ANT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero_2285
I wasn't defending my metagame - Big Meanie name calling gets you warned. Attack the ideas not the member - PRQuote:
Originally Posted by URABAHN
I was keeping the thread moving and informing people of my meta in case they could help me out with it. I guess you could say there is a slight invalidation when not all the solid players show but, I wasn't trying to defend anything against you.
I'm not worried about running StP. You brought up StP and I stated why it wouldn't help me any.Quote:
Originally Posted by URABAHN
Just something fun I'd like to take another look at for potential viability
B2B-Dreadstill
// Lands
9 [BD] Island (3)
1 [U] Volcanic Island
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
// Creatures
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
// Spells
4 [OD] Standstill
1 [TSP] Trickbind
3 [US] Back to Basics
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [SC] Stifle
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 4 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
Obviously with the B2Bs maindeck there really is no need for Wastelands. 9 Basics is obviously rediculous and 6 3CC spells for Counterbalance is nice.
I'm not sure how calling me an asshat is going to help you. I called your metagame underdeveloped, then you proceed to tell me, "Well, I play with some pretty good players and I wouldn't call this [underdeveloped] meta underdeveloped." You're right, how could I possibly think you're defending your meta? You're running a deck that's been tried and tested and you're winning, I don't see what the problem is unless you think you haven't played against the best your area has to offer. Furthermore, thinking StP won't help you because you play in a combo heavy meta is just plain wrong. Have you played against enough combo to understand how effective Daze, FoW, Counterbalance, and Stifle are? Have you played against enough combo to understand that some combo decks board in Dark Confidant or Storm Entity, both of which are easily solved by StP? I'm pretty sure you think StP has some merit or you wouldn't say you're going to test it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero_2285
@Kiwi: I always think about doing this, but I think running 2 dominant splashes is pushing your luck. Possibly a version with a 22nd land that was Savannah could change my mind. On the other hand, Force of Will did this at the last Hadley tournament and got 3rd. But he always gets 3rd so I don't know.
@Rood: My initial thought is that in the no Wasteland configuration, you could probably drop an Island for the 2nd Trickbind, since you would still have 8 of them (w00t!). I would also be tempted to play Magus of the Moon in B2Bs place, if Trinket Mage has taught me anything, its that beating for 2 matters. And eating Swords can be okay, too.
@b2b dreadstill: rood...you are EVIL! My initial reaction is to try to put more tops and cb in it. Having 6 MD 3CC cards provides a serious defense against what I feel is the most potent answer short of Boil, Krosan Grip. Also, to a point I am concerned that Daze may not have quite the punch that it had when used with Wasteland. I think testing will prove or disprove all of my concerns because there is no way that nuances will be discerned from mere conjecture. However, I will venture that the "standard" Ur version is amazing and highly tuned.
Seconding Bocci..
B2B is more of a SB card to me regarding Dreadstill.
Magus is a neat replacement and maindeckable imo.
B2B makes Factories worse and whatnot.
I could see a UW Dreadstill list with 2 Enlightened Tutors and a singleton B2B main (1-2 SB). That way they don't clogg your hand and a still good for a surprise.
Anyway if you're inerested in a Nought+B2B deck that did well recently, checky this out:
Right right, I'm not saying this list is battle-tested or anything guys just that it could be a KNOCK in the mouth to a meta filled it slowish (I want to run 1000x nonbasics control.) MoTM I'm not sure would be a good because it doesn't pitch to Force...it's relevant trust me =].
UR List is the best btw jazzy /agree.
hello all,
i haven't actually tried the counter top combo, yes its a strong combo once you've able to set it up but the process of setting up is very very slow even with brainstrom and standstill. having viewed several counter top decks im just guessing that the optimal number is 3 top 2 counterbalance.
My question is are those 5 cards (counterblanace and top) really better that maybe let say 3 counter cards and 2 draw cards or 5 counter cards entirely
With a low mana curve cards that you could only counter are cards with casting costs 1 - 3, and normally low casting cost cards in legacy doesn't do such devastating effects on the board. Yes a typical dreadstill deck has 4 fow and 3-4 daze, 3-4 spell snare. but with spell snare + countertop isn't it a bit redundant ?
hoping to hear some insights
thanks
Most cards in Legacy are 1-3 cc...
Top is amazing even without balance. Top + fetch lands allows you to sift through your deck to find the cards you need. I have gotten out of some tight spots because of multiple top/fetch activations for the card I needed NOW. I would not give up the Top.Quote:
Originally Posted by _erbs_
@Kiwi and others:
I played my UGWr version yesterday in my local tournament and went 3rd of 24 with 2 wins and 1 draw (rounds are only 45 minutes..)
2-1 against Suicide Black
1: 2 Tarmo is killing him while I'm swording and countering his threats.
2: Hard game where he mana denial me a lot and finish me with Phyrexian Negator.
3: Quick Dreadnought and he's at 8. He finds an Edict but I finish him with Mishra's while I counter everything with countertop and swording his Confidant.
1-1 against MUC
1: I counter everything, stifle Powder keg and kill quickly with Nought
2: Long game where he has 2 Powder keg and 1 Morphling while I have 1 Mishra's and 1 Goyf. He's at 7 and me at 4 and he succed to finish me with his Flying Morphling.
3: Mishra's + Standstill for 4-5 turns; he's at 11 and then I have tarmo but he succesfuly cast back to basic while I have at least 2 Island in play and 3-4 non-basic untapped. He takes my goyf with Shackles and I swords it. I put standstill in play and the game will never finish.
2-1 against a Extirpate control deck
I don't really remember this and didn't take my life countdown so... whatever.
Swords are pretty good, Ancient grudge is also nice.
List:
// Lands
1 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
// Creatures
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
// Spells
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Standstill
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Trickbind
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
3 Swords to Plowshares
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Jotun Grunt
SB: 3 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Firespout
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Echoing Truth
I put Jotun because I know there's 2 ITF deck, sometimes Survival, Loam, ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh and a Terrageddon. And it's actually pretty good agaisnt Eva Green also.
PM
Since you cut 1 Island, 1 Trickbind and 1 EE from your normal list, you would really only be down 1 blue card from your normal list if you were to play MotM. Also, pitching B2B against 1000x nonbasics control seems like a mistake to begin with. But on the other hand, I have had moments were if I had a blue card instead of a Tarmogoyf against aggro, I would have been able to win. I can also see that B2B also has the potential to be much more game ending than MotM. But on the other other hand, MotM does answer Snuff Out against Team America and UGB Thresh, and it chump blocks against Goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
So i guess I don't know. Testing on Negate is still inconclusive, btw. While it is good at answering answers to your Dreadnought, I really like REB in this deck. Namely, I find the ability to Blast early Brainstorms extremely useful when you have Stifled or Wasted your opponents lands. But if the game gets away from you, Stifle Noughting with a Negate and another counter in hand is very promising, and often much easier than trying to out tempo your opponent.
@ Enigma
in my opinion, you should have 2 volcanic island 2 tundra and 2 tropical.
Also, -3 echoing truth +2-3 red elemental blast 0-1 tormod's crypt (fetchable with trinket and could be useful in our meta)
Robert
So is Counterbalance. I can't even begin to describe how broke CB is when you have Braintrain in hand. I'm fairly sure once you drop a CB with Braintrain you will most of the time mess up your oponent's day for sure =). Also blind CB flip rapes happen quite frequently. The card seriously may be the best blue card in legacy atm right behind Force, it wrecks.Quote:
Originally Posted by e=mc^2
So, which build would you guys say is best for going into an unknown meta? I'm thinking U/g/r, but I'd like some advice.
Rather than weigh the strengths and weakness of the variants, its better to asses what type of decks your play style is weak against and choose a deck that will help you in those match ups. In a truly "unknown meta" its best to pick a build that will help you rather than challenge the meta. An example would be that if you are weaker player against combo decks, then the U/r build that won the source event would be a better selection than the U/g/r version. Dreadstill preforms well enough as a core that the pilot's play style should determine what the color package should be. Determine what match ups you, as a pilot have difficulty with, and then proceed from there. I've always found that helpful when going into an unknown meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by That kid you all hate