[OLD] UGr Threshold

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Originally Posted by Shugyosha

i would simply run a 1/1 split between Wipe Away and Rushing River. You simply cannot predict if one card is better than the other in certain matchups. It always depends on the situation.
I ran them in the list I played in Iserlohn but they weren't needed but once (and it wasn't even that necessary).

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I like the 1/1 spilt a lot in Canadian Threshold that I run. I can see the argurment of running 2 rushing rivers, but wipe away does win you games from time to time with the spilt second mechanic. I really think the bounce is very important to have main deck no matter if your playing Canadian Threshold or Swan Thresh.

The other point I would like to address is what is the best tempo deck in the format. I think its clearly Canadian Threshold b/c of all the ways you have to stop your opponent from doing anything. It starts with mana denial and continues with the counterspells that you play. Usually an early threat with backup is enough to take the game.

Team America has a cute name, but thats about it.

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Originally Posted by nickrit2000

The other point I would like to address is what is the best tempo deck in the format. I think its clearly Canadian Threshold b/c of all the ways you have to stop your opponent from doing anything. It starts with mana denial and continues with the counterspells that you play. Usually an early threat with backup is enough to take the game.

Team America has a cute name, but thats about it.

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How is this different to Team America? They appear to have the same amount of mana denial (both have wastelands, stifles, and whereas one has fire//ice, the other has sinkhole-while one is more versitile, the other doesn't just last for a turn). Additionally, they both have counterspells. The difference lies in the rest of the cards.

I feel that TA is better able to capitalize on its tempo due to it having larger creatures, as well as creatures that easily get around CounterTop, and creatures that have evasion (tombstalker). Additionally, TA has hand disruption which allows for an even bigger disruption package. Canadian Thresh has burn, which is fantastic, but isn't super great at getting rid of opposing goyfs/bigger things, and can get hit pretty hard by CounterTop. TA has better tempo creature kill in the form of snuff out.

So when it comes to tempo thresh, I would probably go with TA.

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Originally Posted by Damnosus

How is this different to Team America? They appear to have the same amount of mana denial (both have wastelands, stifles, and whereas one has fire//ice, the other has sinkhole-while one is more versitile, the other doesn't just last for a turn). Additionally, they both have counterspells. The difference lies in the rest of the cards.

I feel that TA is better able to capitalize on its tempo due to it having larger creatures, as well as creatures that easily get around CounterTop, and creatures that have evasion (tombstalker). Additionally, TA has hand disruption which allows for an even bigger disruption package. Canadian Thresh has burn, which is fantastic, but isn't super great at getting rid of opposing goyfs/bigger things, and can get hit pretty hard by CounterTop. TA has better tempo creature kill in the form of snuff out.

So when it comes to tempo thresh, I would probably go with TA.

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Personally I think that TA lacks the burn to finish what it starts often -- when it runs out of steam it does not have the reach to still win. In addition, Thrash plays Nimble Mongoose, which is really, IMO, better than Tombstalker in this format. It's cheaper, easier to cast, and you don't have to waste counters to protect it. Thrash does get hit pretty hard by CBTop, but your thresh MU is still decent, I'm going to say no worse than TA's, because Stifle wrecks thresh as does wasteland. But it's probably a meta choice.

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Originally Posted by Nihil Credo

Trygon Predator is something else I had fiddled with, and provides most of what you're looking for - 3cc, proactive, handles annoying stuff (except Humility), even pitches to FoW.

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Yeah I played it a while ago and I think its awful. I mean its really good in other Threshold builds but in Swanthresh I don't want another clunky creature that is bad on the defense. It will also die to a copied Chain of Plasma which is a minor point but still a reason not to run it.

Another thing I can't quite figure out is: What do I need in the board against Landstill. I tried Blood Moon and Price of Progress but wasn't satisfied. To much set-up for (often) minor impact or simply too narrow. Currently I'm testing Needles (in addition to Pyroblast and Grip). Are there any other good hate cards I forgot? Winter Orb hurts the own game plan and B2B demands to take the whole combo out which is rather bad for its impact.

Shugyosha: Winter Orb shouldn't hurt too much unless you are really focusing on the combo kill.


So, I actually googled this and I couldn't find any answers really and I also did a quick search on forums too:

The difference between Canadian Thresh and normal, more "historical" builds is a focus on tempo by stifle, wasteland, md spellsnares and fire/ice as opposed to bunches of cantrips? That is at least what I got out of comparing lists. Sorry for the threshnewb question, it has just been bugging me and this is probably the best place to ask.

Also, there may be an answer contained in the seventy-nine pages of this thread, but I would rather not read all of them, though I did read through the first twenty or so.

Anyway, sorry again for the scrubby question.

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Originally Posted by Mordel

S
So, I actually googled this and I couldn't find any answers really and I also did a quick search on forums too:

The difference between Canadian Thresh and normal, more "historical" builds is a focus on tempo by stifle, wasteland, md spellsnares and fire/ice as opposed to bunches of cantrips?

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Summer 2007 list
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Brainstorm
Counterspell
Daze
Fledgling Dragon
Flooded Strand
Force of Will
Forest
Island
Lightning Bolt
Nimble Mongoose
Pithing Needle
Polluted Delta
Portent
Predict
Sensei's Divining Top
Serum Visions
Tarmogoyf
Tropical Island
Volcanic Island
Wooded Foothills

Summer 2008 list (Tempo Thrash)
============
Brainstorm
Daze
Fire / Ice
Flooded Strand
Force of Will
Lightning Bolt
Nimble Mongoose
Polluted Delta
Ponder
Rushing River
Spell Snare
Stifle
Tarmogoyf
Tropical Island
Volcanic Island
Wasteland

Diff =>
-Counterspell
-Fledgling Dragon
+Fire / Ice
-Forest
-Island
-Pithing Needle
-Portent
-Predict
-Sensei's Divining Top
-Serum Visions
+Ponder
+Rushing River
+Spell Snare
+Stifle
-Wooded Foothills
+Wasteland

So minus the exact cards that were replaced, I'll assume what I stated concerning tempo is the difference between the two? Gotcha.

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Originally Posted by Mordel

Shugyosha: Winter Orb shouldn't hurt too much unless you are really focusing on the combo kill.

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The combo kill is more or less dead then so I would board it out anyways when Orb comes in. Balance Top has to stay in though and Orb hurts your Top considerably.

So yea, I have been playing a pretty standard Swan Thresh list lately, and I gotta say I have been getting pretty discouraged. Outside of tournaments (which I have not been able to take the deck to yet), I tend to play with my friends who don't really have legacy decks (it's pretty casual). Considering that this is one of the top tier decks in the legacy format, I kinda figured that I would have a good matchup against most things. The first one I played against was a mono-black reanimator deck which I won against only once in 4-5 games. Then later I played against a slightly upgraded fires of yavimaya deck which also beat me 3 games to 1. Mind you, I tend to not mulligan as much when playing casually, and I don't use my sideboard in such games (which may be the sole reason that I had such a hard time against said decks).

So my conclusions on this are thus: either I don't fully understand how to play this deck yet (which is understandable considering I have only recently picked it up), or this is one of those decks that only does well in an advanced metagame. I mean how does this deck do against random jank? I am wondering this because I most often play in local tournaments where there isn't an advanced metagame, and I really don't want to lose to jank with such an expensive deck.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Are my worries warranted? I can give more information if necessary.

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Originally Posted by Damnosus

So yea, I have been playing a pretty standard Swan Thresh list lately, and I gotta say I have been getting pretty discouraged. Outside of tournaments (which I have not been able to take the deck to yet), I tend to play with my friends who don't really have legacy decks (it's pretty casual). Considering that this is one of the top tier decks in the legacy format, I kinda figured that I would have a good matchup against most things. The first one I played against was a mono-black reanimator deck which I won against only once in 4-5 games. Then later I played against a slightly upgraded fires of yavimaya deck which also beat me 3 games to 1. Mind you, I tend to not mulligan as much when playing casually, and I don't use my sideboard in such games (which may be the sole reason that I had such a hard time against said decks).
So my conclusions on this are thus: either I don't fully understand how to play this deck yet (which is understandable considering I have only recently picked it up), or this is one of those decks that only does well in an advanced metagame. I mean how does this deck do against random jank? I am wondering this because I most often play in local tournaments where there isn't an advanced metagame, and I really don't want to lose to jank with such an expensive deck.

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Considering your disappointing casual experience you answered part of the reasons yourself. UGR-Swans Thresh IS a deck that was developed to win in a competitive environment, meaning it needs to use its SB to be really good.
Some cards that tend to suck in casual metas:
- Stifle ("no fetchies, damn...")
- Wasteland ("only basics" damnit!)
- Daze ("I couldnt disrupt your mana base? Damn Daze!")
- Spellsnare ("only 3 of your spells cost 2?!" meh.)
Bottom line being: Yeah, you'd have to bastardize your deck to make it work better in your environment.

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Originally Posted by Damnosus

Does anyone have any thoughts? Are my worries warranted? I can give more information if necessary.

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Well, if your primary goal is to beat your meta, and want to know how, it'd in fact be helpful if you posted the usual suspects.

I also tended to lose with any kind of Threshold against any kind of Standard or Extended decks. It is not built to attack those kinds of decks. SwanThresh performs very good in a normal meta though.

If you play SwanThresh against random-junk, another problem is that Counterbalance doesn't have such an impact. Counterbalance is meant to neutralize StoP, Smother and similar removal, for example. If your opponent plays Dark Banishing, instead, you might get into trouble.

The advantage of SwanThresh is then the possibility of the combo kill, since you might simply be faster than those strategies.

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Originally Posted by Taurelin

The advantage of SwanThresh is then the possibility of the combo kill, since you might simply be faster than those strategies.

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That's exactly the way you beat the "random jank" (I use this term but I don't like it) you will eventually meet at tournaments, too. Swanthresh combines Aggro/Control of Threshold with a combo playstyle. When facing decks which are resistant to your aggro/control style you have to switch gears. When playing for the combo you have to keep different hands, play less aggressively with your creatures and burn and you have to plan your two comboturns well because you usually only have one try. With a decent starting hand, its not that hard against decks that can't disrupt you with counters or discard but Crytic Command for example is a beating...

Every week I play in a jank meta and time after time my counterbalance ranges from OK, to useless. Klaus hit the nail on the head. However on the topic of Daze, I feel that it is slightly more useful than he let on because normally their cards cost a million mana. The down side to that is that if they wait 1 more turn which is usually all it takes as they often have a million land in the deck in a properly built "cool dudes" deck then they pay for Daze.

I can't tell you how many times Cyrptic Command ruined my day in the late game, when someone was playing a standard deck in a Legacy tournament.

In a jank meta I think you need to be more aggressive in your build and playstyle because if you sit around for their "bad spells" to be cast you just may get hit with a massive hell bent Demonfire or Quagnoth!

Ok so I finally got to play SwanThresh at my local tourney. As I mentioned before, I was a little down about it cause it was losing to what I considered to be inferior decks. Since my meta is pretty janky, I was a little worried that I would get creamed because SwanThresh is not really meant for lower grade metas. I used Nihil Credo's list (minus the two spell snares, +1 wipe away, +1 rushing river). This also was one of the smaller tournaments-probably because of the holiday-so it was definitely less competitive. This is what happened (mind you I don't take notes, so this is gonna be very short as I don't totally remember everything):

Round 1: Boros (sort of-more like burn with white creatures).
Game 1: I take some burn hits, used my burn as removal, and eventually I got two threshed Geese out for beat down.
-My sideboard is pretty crappy at the moment. I cannot find any more pyroclasms (I swear I had like 5 at some point in my life) for some stupid reason. Thus I sideboard in my one clasm for a CoP.
Game 2: she gets stuck on 2 mountains, and I proceed to get counter/top (only game that this was really effective) which prevents her from doing anything once she does get some white mana. I win pretty easily.
-After the game I looked through her deck and made some suggestions. She was running 10 mountains and 7 plains, while having silver knights and soltari priests: I suggested she switch the ratio. I even traded an Isamaru for a countryside crusher to help her out (I know I got screwed a little, but hey, I wasn't using it, and I think it will help her deck a bit).

Record: 1-0
Games: 2-0

Round 2: Boros (wth??? This was at least more boros like-more ravnica cards and such).
Game 1: He gets some critters out that I can't initially deal with, so he gets me down pretty low. I however manage to stabilize and I come back to win.
-Sideboard: my single stupid clasm for a CoP:mad:.
Game 2: Same sort of thing as above, except he gets me even lower. If he had drawn burn on the turn before I killed him, I would have died.

Record: 2-0
Games: 4-0

Round 3: Meathooks
Game 1: I begin by forcing his turn one vial, then I proceeded to draw almost ever single burn spell I have and I wipe out all of his slivers (never got a crystaline), and then beat him down.
-Sideboard: I had no idea what to do with this one so I wound up siding in 2 grips (for vials), 3x REB, 3x blood moon (I forget for what).
Game 2: Ok so this was my one huge play mistake of the tournament. I wind up playing a blood moon which resolved, thinking that I had already played the wooded foothills in my hand (which would have allowed me to grab the single forest), but no. I suck. So we both get hosed, until he gets some basics, and then builds an army that my single goyf can't handle. After the game he even showed me that he had three BEB, but he realized that the BM was hurting me more than him, so he didn't nuke it. Wow was that dumb :frown: .
Game 3: I get some early threats, and he is stuck on 2 underground seas with a very small hand (after a double force against a counterbalance). I proceed to land a BM and he scoops. Hooray for me for not sucking with BM two times in a row.

Record: 3-0
Games: 6-1

Final Round: Mono Green Stompy (no berserks thankfully).
So I had been playing with this guy before the tournament started, and he beat me both times with his stompy deck, thus, I was pretty resigned to my fate coming into this match.
Game 1/2: I am pretty sure I won this one, but it kinda blurred with game 2. One of them I was able to handle things with my goyfs, and one game I wasn't. I wound up siding in a clasm/echoing truth against this in game 2.
Game 3: Things all came down to a timely bolt on a skyshround elite in response to a bounty of the hunt. The card disadvantage was what allowed me to stave off his attacks. Additionally, this was the only game in which I combo'ed off. While that might not warrant its inclusion, it was still really helpful as it allowed me to win sooner than I normally would have (which could have been really bad due to my lack of life). I am definitely liking the inclusion of it.

Record: 4-0
Games 8-2

So I wound up 4-0 in a jank arena, losing only two games (one of which was totally just a dumbass mistake). So I am definitely feeling more confident about the deck.

Thoughts on the deck when playing against jank: the only cards that I would consider changing for jank metas would be the counterbalances. That being said, it is a great card against those rare games when you play something really good. I don't think I will be changing things anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Damnosus

I proceed to land a BM and he scoops.

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It was quite nice of him to clean up after you.


Yes. This post was very necessary.

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Originally Posted by nitewolf9

It was quite nice of him to clean up after you.


Yes. This post was very necessary.

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Ok that was horribly childish, and yet absolutely funny. I am still debating whether or not to edit it though (I did not make that jump when I was writing the post).

Someone please explain this childish humor to me so that I may partake of its enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by Illissius

Someone please explain this childish humor to me so that I may partake of its enjoyment.

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Urbandictionary.com has saved me in many similar situations, and this was one of them.

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Originally Posted by nitewolf9

It was quite nice of him to clean up after you.


Yes. This post was very necessary.

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Here and I thought he was talking about the art on Tarmogoyf... :rolleyes:

Which version of the deck is more popular? Tempo or combo?

Which version of the deck is better suited against aggro?

Can the combo version of this deck beat burn at all?

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Originally Posted by undone

Which version of the deck is more popular? Tempo or combo?

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Depends. Overall Tempo is by far the most played red version of the deck at the moment. But in some metas there is a glaring absence of Tempo Threshold. Its not because the deck isn't good, people don't seem to like Tempo Thresh, don't see its strengh. I don't know.

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Originally Posted by undone

Which version of the deck is better suited against aggro?

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Depends on the aggro list. Balance is usually a beating against aggro decks but Tempo Thresh has enough burn as well an no clunky setup. Against Goblins Tempo Thresh is the shit.
As most aggro plays red at the moment SB Hydroblasts will help.

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Originally Posted by undone

Can the combo version of this deck beat burn at all?

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Repeat after me: Top and Balance will keep me out of trouble

I found it harder to win against Burn with Tempo Thresh than with Swan Thresh. But I consider the Burn matchup in Thresholds favor, granted you play 3-4 Hydroblasts SB.

I am mainly a standard and extended player and am interested into making the jump into legacy. There is a Grand Prix in the local area in January and I am hoping to scrounge up funds to build this deck to play at GP events. I just had a few questions.

Is this the best version of this deck?

Why no love for Quirion Dryad?

Is nimble mongoose really that good?

Does someone have a skeleton of the deck?

Going into an unknown meta but expectng the best of the best seeing as it is a GP is there a correct sideboard?

If I can't scrounge up enough money for real dual will the Rav duals hinder the deck into unplayability?

Thanks for the help that I assume I will receive!

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Originally Posted by TheBez

I am mainly a standard and extended player and am interested into making the jump into legacy. There is a Grand Prix in the local area in January and I am hoping to scrounge up funds to build this deck to play at GP events. I just had a few questions.

Is this the best version of this deck?

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It can't be said as every build has got it's advantages and disadvantages. Even a build that seems optimal such as Hatfield's 5color Thresh has got a weakness (in this case the huge vulnerability to Blood Moon, B2B and recurring Wastelands).

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Why no love for Quirion Dryad?

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Because it comes into play as a shabby 1/1 and has to be grown. This either forces you to spare your cantrips or to play 4 of them. But since they are a shabby topdeck and can't trade with other creatures in a early state, they suck.

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Is nimble mongoose really that good?

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It's a 3/3 untouchable beater. The Shroud ability is still underestimated by a lot of people. But since they have Shroud, they can't be handled by removal and therefore are good blockers against Goblins or other Aggrodecks and very good attackers against controldecks.

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Does someone have a skeleton of the deck?

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4 Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

4 Tropical Island
6-7 Fetchlands

And the rest is a matter of the splash and concept you choose, like:

Wasteland + Stifle <-> Counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top

Burn <-> Swords to Plowshares

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Originally Posted by TheBez

I am mainly a standard and extended player and am interested into making the jump into legacy. There is a Grand Prix in the local area in January and I am hoping to scrounge up funds to build this deck to play at GP events. I just had a few questions.

Is this the best version of this deck?

Why no love for Quirion Dryad?

Is nimble mongoose really that good?

Does someone have a skeleton of the deck?

Going into an unknown meta but expectng the best of the best seeing as it is a GP is there a correct sideboard?

If I can't scrounge up enough money for real dual will the Rav duals hinder the deck into unplayability?

Thanks for the help that I assume I will receive!

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The best thing to do if you want to get into legacy and don't really know anything about the format is to start a thread in the community section of the website instead in the decks to beat thread.

This thread is mainly used to offer suggestions on the particular archtype that the thread is about.

I'm also concerned about the aggro-MU. Not necessarily Goblins, because they are less present than they used to be, and because Thresh/r has quite a bunch of removal spells and numerous ways to deal with 1st turn Lackey (12 on the draw, even more on the play!).

What I mean is
a) other tribes, such as Merfolk (annyoing with Islandwalk), but also
b) (Domain-)Zoo, which I meet more and more often.

So far I have been working with 2 SB-solutions.
First, Engineered Explosives, which are also nice to get rid of opponents' Tarmogoyfs and also hit non-creature stuff (Counterbalance, Chalice etc.). The disadvantage is that you also hit your own cards, and in the balanced version you play lots of permanents.
The second experiment was Pyroclasm, which is more universal vs small critters with various mana-costs, synergizes with your own Swans (!), but which doesn't help vs X/3 stuff like Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape and the like.

Several of my opponents suggested Firespout in this slot. Only costs one mana more, has more reach, and can be directed situationally (e.g. let our own Mongoose live while killing all Faeries etc) with our colors.

Possible?

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Originally Posted by Adan

And the rest is a matter of the splash and concept you choose, like:

Wasteland + Stifle <-> Counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top

Burn <-> Swords to Plowshares

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I know that I will be playing burn over StP. However going into GP events which do you deem better stifle/wasteland or countertop? Is it impossible to play both Countertop and stifle/waste?

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Originally Posted by TheBez

I know that I will be playing burn over StP. However going into GP events which do you deem better stifle/wasteland or countertop? Is it impossible to play both Countertop and stifle/waste?

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No clue, but theoretically speaking, I'd never to it as it mixes up 2 concepts which are contradictory to each other.

I was wondering if a Tempo Thresh player could elaborate some advantages that red Tempo Thresh has over Team America. The obvious difference would be the burn of course, but that seems to be the only angle one could make an argument in favour of red Thresh in terms of being a better tempo deck.

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Originally Posted by Serbitar

I was wondering if a Tempo Thresh player could elaborate some advantages that red Tempo Thresh has over Team America. The obvious difference would be the burn of course, but that seems to be the only angle one could make an argument in favour of red Thresh in terms of being a better tempo deck.

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Burn providing reach, running more Counterspells so that you are able to play the control role better instead of straight tempo all the time, Nimble Mongoose is better than Tombstalker against Control for the most part, Pyroclasm against Goblins, Red Blasts out of the side against blue decks, universal answers game one in the form of bounce spells.

If you're having any trouble with Team America in your metagame, just sideboard Submerge. It's very solid against other Goyf.decs as well.

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Originally Posted by Whit3 Ghost

Burn providing reach.

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This wins matches. Burn is just so amazing against almost everything either winning goyf battles or making it irrelavent that your opponent just stabilized.

Tempo Thresh also doesn't care as much about a resolved magus because it doesn't shut off our removal. Kinda helps it, really.

Question for the Tempo Thresh players: if you open up a hand containing Ponder and Stifle, do you play the Ponder or keep mana open for Stifle? What about a hand with Mongoose and Stifle? What factors contribute to your decision?

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Originally Posted by b4r0n

Question for the Tempo Thresh players: if you open up a hand containing Ponder and Stifle, do you play the Ponder or keep mana open for Stifle? What about a hand with Mongoose and Stifle? What factors contribute to your decision?

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Stifle.

Always always always always always always. Unless you're playing against something that doesn't play fetches like Wombat.

I play the ponder, unless I'm assuming my opponent is very inexperienced. He will never use his first turn fetch while you have an untapped island anyways, and then you just skipped a turn for noting. The ponder will provide your second land drop (possibly a wasteland for his first land), free counters, or a mongoose to play turn 2, then still with a mana open.

I played NQG/r with Counterbalance for the last few tournaments (currently 14-1-0 in the last three tournaments). I started playing Swans Thresh and didn't like the combo package very much and I think the red Balance variant of Grow isn't getting enough attention here =)

So my list:

2 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Trygon Predator

3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Predict
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Engineered Explosives

-3 Price of Progress
-1 Krosan Grip
-4 Blue Elemental Blast
-3 Red Elemental Blast
-4 Pyroclasm

First off all: Why play this over any other Thresh build?

-Counterbalance is really a powerhouse!
-It's less clunky than Swan Thresh
-The red SB is just incredibly good (the only reson why I like this over the white build)
-Counterbalance
-The manabase is pretty solid
-Maindeck Predator are really nice
-Freaking Counterbalance, man =)

The big disadvantage is obviously the lack of Swords (or any hard removal really), but in my opinion the great SB makes up for it. I also don't like the manabases of the various 4/5C Thresh build with Aggro Loam beeing pretty popular here and a stable manabase beeing worth gold.

Enough with all the bragging, here come the questions:
For me the open slots in this deck are the two EE and the third Predict. Does anybody have a proposition, which cards to put in these slots? I already toyed around with Threads of Disloyality, F/I and Magma Jet and have never been quite satisfied. The cards should ideally have CC 2, for Counterbalance purposes.

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-4 Blue Elemental Blast
-3 Red Elemental Blast

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I'm no Threshold player, and this might just be a small nitpick:

Why do people play ye olde Blasts over Pyroblast and Hydroblast? The fact that Pyroblast and Hydroblast can target permanents that aren't a specific color should make them strictly better since you can get an advantage when facing random decks with cards that dies when they get targeted. What is the advantage of running the old blasts? I just don't get it.

Hmm cool deck.

Some questions:
-Have you considered/do you miss spell snare?
-When you say the SB makes up for the lack of hard removal, how do you mean? All I see is blasts and pyroclasm, which are all limited in their own way.
-Price of progress? Interesting, but can you please motivate?
-Only one krosan grip?


I don't really have any answer to your question, but if the lack of removal is something that's bothering you, try the good old all purpose bounce-spells. Rushing river and Wipe away, or even boomerang if you want it to be cmc2. Or perhaps counterspell?

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Originally Posted by Henrik

-Have you considered/do you miss spell snare?

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I actually haven't considert it. In my opinion an optimized CB curve is the decks strongest weapon and therefore I'm only looking in the CC2 slot at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Henrik

-When you say the SB makes up for the lack of hard removal, how do you mean? All I see is blasts and pyroclasm, which are all limited in their own way.

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It's mostly the mass aggro MUs, that Thresh usually struggles with (Goblins, Elfes, Affinity,...) and Pyroclasm is just a monster there. That's what I meant when I said the SB is making up for the inferior maindeck (compared to Thresh/w).

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Originally Posted by Henrik

-Price of progress? Interesting, but can you please motivate?

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Due to the lack of Swords I had a hard time to deal tha last points of damage to Aggro Loam (once one of their heavy critters hit the table, you're in trouble) and PoP serves this purpose just perfectly. It's also nuts against 43 Land.dec (a bad MU) and various Tendrils builds (especially if they rely on Ad Nauseam).

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Originally Posted by Henrik

-Only one krosan grip?

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Yeah, once I moved the Predators to the maindeck I constantly reduced the number of Grips in the board. That one is a little random, I just don't have an idea of which card I'd rather have in that slot.

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Originally Posted by Henrik

Or perhaps counterspell?

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This is an interessting thought. It is a good lategame spell (which Thresh is lacking). In the early game on the other hand, you don't have the mana most of the time.

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Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch

This is an interessting thought. It is a good lategame spell (which Thresh is lacking). In the early game on the other hand, you don't have the mana most of the time.

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Yes, it really is. My most freqently played deck right now is the typical tempo thresh deck, with two counterspells instead of bounce. I made that change because I found it really valueable to be able to counter anything that would stop my clock (target my goyf), and not only bounce blockers. Since your deck is less tempo oriented I suppose you might find you don't have the same need of it, since you probably have a CB active at that point. Still though...

The price of progress is really neat, I might consider that in my SB as well.

Has any one tested with UGR threshold tempo againts Team America and Dreadstill ? thoughts ?