Printable View
If I'm reading you right, you seem to be under the impression that is will always take away half you opponent's life rounded down and nothing more. That's not true, the creature deals it's damage then the opponent loses half his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
Also cool about it; Arc-Slogger can use it to kill anything it can target or quickly knock the opponent's life down. A single shock can take someone from twenty down to nine.
A 6/3 double striking Rakdos Pit Dragon kills a 20 life opponent in a single attack with that equipment. Fun shits!
I ain't saying it's good, but it might be.
Both of the above cases are win more, especially the Dragon. If I hit with a 6/3 double striking Dragon, I should win regardless of what equipment it attached.
It does do neat tricks with Arc-Slogger, but paying six mana before you can use it plus five for an Arc-Slogger and at least one more to shock and we're talking about a ton of mana.
Isn't the trend in Dragon Stompy away from equipment?
It's useful against a few other decks too. Scan the past ten or so pages. Affinity comes to mind, possibly Goyf Sligh, but I've never played against the deck. The card's usefulness decreases rapidly after turn one and if you're on the draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
Rally the Horde is too expensive to run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
I actually kind of like this card, especially in goblin heavy metas. If dropped early, it gets out of hand quickly, and the goblin player is going to hate having to swing with everything. It's also useful vs Wrath/Damnation and high creature removal decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
I don't think it's going to replace Mauler in most lists, but it does have applications.
In addition to the aforementioned Chalice at two, pray really hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
More seriously, side in crypts/Pyrokinesis. Use the former against Terravore/Loam, and the latter to kill Countryside Crusher before they get an upkeep. Sword of Fire and Ice is also good.
Moons can be effective here depending on how many colors they run. At the very least they make Terravore difficult to cast. I'd probably side out Maguses, since they have a ton of ways to kill him.
Maybe -4 Magus, +4 Crypt, -4 Trinispheres or Maulers, +4 Pyrokinesis. SoFI over Jitte if you expect a lot of Aggro Loam/Dragon Stompy/Other non-Burn Red decks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuma
Pithing needle naming their cycling lands limits them to topdecking everything. So a moon effect plus needle on tranquil thicket, forgotten cave slows them to a crawl. Although in practice I played a game that turn 1 I played song song, dragon, mauler and I lost this due to devastating dreams. Yet again, a reason to run null brooch, I am seriously going to test this card in the 3 trinisphere spot. Please others do so as well to entertain my madness, I think it can be a huge asset.
I can see some good and bad things about Null Brooch:
Good
-Allows us to always have Hellbent
-Stops a litany of spells we have to see, Dev Dreams, Wrath, Deed
-Forces opponent to play around it
Bad
-Pithing Needle stops many non creature spells we hate for 1/6th the cost
-Trinisphere hurts most of the other half
-CMC of four hurts consistencey
-Doesn't imprint or pitch
-Can be Needled/Gripped before it's ever used (unless you want to try for six mana before you cast it)
-Sometimes you don't want Hellbent
I guess if you went song, song, Null Brooch, Mauler, you could have stopped D.D., but I don't need to tell you that requiring two Seething Songs to be useful is a bad thing.
well the thing is with brooch it could be just a 2 of in the deck. It's a mid/late game sealer against control. Even early it can score us hellbent which is cool. The imprint part isnt an issue due to it taking the place of 3sphere in my list, also not too many people board in needle against dragon stompy unless they saw jitte, chalice at 1 also stops that problem. Im saying I think "for sure it belongs yet" but I'd love to play 10 or so straight games against lanstill to prove it to myself whether or not it makes a difference. Anyone up to testing on MWS????
Why settle for a single shock when you can just do three shocks in a row and straight up win the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
The card is pretty ridiculous with arc slogger if you think about it. 3 mana and 30 cards off the top of your library takes your opponent from 20 to 0 at instant speed!
Lets just hope that the wording on the card is as it says. Right now, it's highly suspicious if the card even exists.
There is only one instance of "Equip" in the orb, and that instance is already used up for another already confirmed equipment.
yes, 3 mana and 30 cards from your library kills your opponent at instant speed... when you have payed 11 mana and have two cards in play...
this card is a win more. No doubt about this. If you have a beater that attacks unblocked and 6 mana open, i think you don't need this card...
Yeah, this card seems pretty terrible.
It's not terrible. It does have a huge target painted on it, and paints a huge target on anything it equips, even a Simian Spirit Guide.
But thats just because it's so threatening.
It's synergy with cards like Grim Lavamacner, Prodigal Pyromacer, Cinder Pyromancer, Viashino Fangtail, Keldon Marauders, Siege Gang Commander, Arc Slogger, Ancient Hydra is solid. But of that list, the only half way decent cards that work decently well in this deck are Siege Gang Commander and Arc Slogger.
You, Turn 1: Tomb, Mox, Deathtouch equipment, go (3 cards in hand).
Them turn 1: Stuff.
You, Turn 2: Draw, Mountain, play Dragon (2 cards in hand).
Them turn 2: Stuff.
You, Turn 3: Draw, Land, Equip to dragon, Drop Chalice @ 1, remove SSG from hand to pump Dragon to 4/3 and swing hellbent (0 cards in hand) for a total of 14 life lost. This gets better by replacing the SSG with a Seething Song.
Them turn 3: Uhh...
That's obviously a great hand, and I didn't even play it out right as Chalice @ 1 needs to happen before you drop a threat because of Needle/StP, but you get the point. It was just a scenario to prove a point.
Top-decking this could suck, but you wouldn't need (not that you would NEED to run it at all, but w/e...) to run it anymore than as a 2-of.
Pce,
--DC
The above scenario would work just as well with a sword of fire and ice and almost as well with a sword of light and shadow...jitte is obviously monsterous with a doublestriking creature as well. The beauty with the jitte in the above scenario is that you could toss the chalice down a turn earlier.
The new equipment costs one extra to equip and gives the creature no protection from removal whatsoever...it sucks in this deck. Maybe if it was cheaper to cast and/or equip you could argue that you can toss down a 3sphere or a chalice to protect its target a bit, but it costs six total: Sucks.
In fact, the above scenario won't work with a sword of fire and ice, because you will draw a card from the first striking ability and then the dragon will lose the double stricking...
I'm not defending the deathtouch equip, (in fact I believe SoFaI is so much better), only pointing :wink:
No, no, no good call. Jitte would be the best equipment for the above scenario for sure anyway.
It allows you drop the chalice earlier which right there gets my vote.
With how rampant swords are seeming to be right now in just about everything that I play, I might be tinkering around with some decks and replacing SoFaI's with SoLaS's, despite the fact that I like the sword's ability a lot more. With Dragonstompy the replacement for the tephraderm that I blow my stack getting out on the first/second turn doesn't always show up in time...the same goes for chalice. Then again Dragonstompy is all about luck anyway, so whatever.
This isn't true. Double strike reads, "This creature does first strike damage and normal damage." First strike damage and normal damage are dealt in separate steps. The dragon would deal first strike damage causing SoFI to trigger, draw you a card, and cause dragon to lose double strike. Then, combat would move to the normal damage step, and since your dragon doesn't have double strike or first strike, it would deal normal combat damage, and you would do SoFI's triggers again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinch
RPD is beast with equipment.
Pit Dragon will lose double strike and not deal regular combat damage if you have a card in hand when the second helping of damage would go on the stack. That's the biggest complaint with Sword of Fire and Ice.
Someone have a oracle link handy? Now I am curious...I always just used jitte in dragon stompy. I suck at finding ruling on the mtg site now since it has changed apparently.
Aside from like one person, the general consensus for the new death touch equipment is a resounding cry of "shit", right?
It costs more, will tend to do pretty much the same thing any other equipment would do in regards to winning the game, excluding of course that the creature is not more difficult to kill and yeah...did I mention it costs a whopping six to lay and equip in the same turn? dayumn.
I asked this question over in the Rules thread and got an answer. The Pit Dragon won't deal regular combat damage if it loses Double Strike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordel
Just read the CompRules:
Quote:
502.28c Removing double strike from a creature during the first combat damage step will stop it from assigning combat damage in the second combat damage step.
Looking at the cards the new expansion, Shards of Alara, is going to bring, it has come to my attention this one:
Crucible of Fire 3R
Enchantment Rare
Dragon creatures you control get +3/+3.
If its casting cost had been 2R the card would have been perfect. But I think it is worth considering it.
Let's analyze it. It would come to be in the place of the equipments (Jitte or SoFI). Its advantage is it can be imprinted into the Chrome mox for mana. Its casting mana cost is the same than if yoy cast and equip a Jitte in the same turn.
But the good thing it has is it not only pumps your RPD, but also the Taurean Mauler!!
And, even I may (and will) be accused of sacrilegy, it could be worth thinking about replacing Slogger for another dragon, such as Covetous Dragon, or even the Hunted Dragon (with the same converted mana cost).
What do you think about it?
That card is:
- A bad topdeck.
- Not as good as any of the equipment that people run.
- Forcing you to run subpar creatures (not slogger) to get the full effect.
I am not impressed.
How often would you rather have Crucible of Fire instead of, say, a second Dragon? Virtually never is pretty much what I come up with. Maybe if you were facing Ghostly Prisons or Elephant Grass, but you lose to decks with Elephant Grass anyway.
So this came up in the other thread: Goblin Assault?
Goblin Assault
:2::r:
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a 1/1 red Goblin creature token with haste into play.
Goblin creatures attack each turn if able.
Taurean Mauler seems like the obvious comparison. Both of them suck as late game topdecks. In the early game, Mauler is faster, but Assault is harder to deal with. Assault is great with equipment, but can't stop a Lackey like Mauler can. (Both are good times against Warren Weirding). And note that the last ability doesn't only apply to your own Goblins.
"Hit you fast with some big creatures" seems much more in the Dragon Stompy spirit than "grow an army of tokens", but it seems worth considering.
6 lesbian points for a logical suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illissius
I've been testing this, actually. For the same reasons you like it. It fits right into our curve. It's a fantastic early drop, and the ability to force Goblins to swing into you is pretty awesome (Though I'm not sure it's better than Mauler giving you Warren Weirding protection). It's also mayhem against certain control decks. It's also nuts with Jitte. It gives you a Jitte carrier every turn. This can suck up your mana, though.
That said, don't let the amazing Airdrop Condor synergy fool you (Edit: Yes, this is a joke, people.) I'm still semi underwhelmed by it. You obviously can't run it alongside Mauler (Both due to space and that Mauler has to swing), so it's it or Mauler, and while neither one exactly fills me with the prospect of joy, Mauler's been a little more consistent. And because the little dudes have to swing every turn, they can sit there with a Tarmogoyf and eat them all day.
And while you can make the argument that it's one less Tarmogoyf they're swinging at you with, the Goblin Assault is also one less threat you're swinging at them with.
I'm going to keep playing around with it, though.
Goblin assault seems pretty cool in theory, but I don't like the fact that if I am playing against aggro and I have pretty much nothing else to play as far as creatures are concerned, I flop assault and then my opponent plays some dork, I basically ended up playing a 1/1 for three...or more specifically a weird sort of creature control card because my opponent is less likely to swing with the dork.
I suppose that isn't bad, but I'd rather have something like a mauler or raiders that just sort of punches through dorks and connects for a decent amount.
I guess it comes down to if you are expecting a bunch of control or not.
Assault seems like a good possible sideboard card for sure though.
It's also worth noting that some of Mauler's slots may be fighting with Trinisphere for awhile until everybody and his dog stops playing with Ad Nauseum storm decks.
That's very, very true. I have been toying around with maulers in the spot of a combination of 3spheres and raiders, though the trade is going to have to be more concrete now, rather than a half-assed blend of the two.
Has anyone been testing the match with ad nauseum decks at all? I haven't played against any yet, but it strikes me as something that could be disrupted by a decent damage spike early in the game.
With minor adjustments one could throw some shrapnel blasts in their sideboard for the match. Mid combo you could catch them with their pants down with five to the dome. Another card I thought about was fireblast, but two mountains being sacced is not necessarily easy to support. Pyrokenesis came to mind too, but that presents the problem of having to hold two cards in your hand. With the ease of adding a set of furnaces and already existent chromos a shrapnel would be the easiest to pull off probably.
Then again, if an ad nauseum deck actually gets around to going off, you're probably fucked anyway.
edit: I just looked at a few ad naus lists...spell shock might have a place in the sideboard now? The problem I see with that though is that it would be competing with 3sphere, moon(not a great play against a lot of the lists I have seen after the first game) and CotV. I don't really think ad naus matches will be terribly different from other storm deck matches though. At least not from looking at the decks. Reach seems like the better of the solutions for such a deck.
Just ramblings I guess.
pyrokinesis cannot target opponents, so thats no good. 4 Triniphere and maybe sphere of resistance would be in abundance if the world goes combo all of a suddenQuote:
Originally Posted by Mordel
Shrapnel Blast is an awful idea. Not only do we not run Covetous Dragon based on the concept that we don't always have an artifact, we also don't EVER leave mana open.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordel
Trinisphere is going to keep most of those decks from easily resolving Ad Nauseum, and even if they do, they still probably won't be able to go off until the next turn. While I have yet to test it more than a couple games just messing around, the match should still be as good/bad as it was. Chalice for 1 becomes more appropriate more often than it used to be versus Chal 2 or Chal-0, as Dark Ritual is the surest path to a fast Ad Nauseum and Chal-2 will no longer shut off all the deck's avenues to a kill (Ad Nauseum, lots of acceleration, Tendrils).
Chalice, Trinisphere, and fast large creatures are the path to victory here.
has anyone tried my suggestion of null brooch at all? I havent had the opportunity to play against any decks I would want to use it against. I am running it in my board as a "two of" in instead of jittes. Using the same list I took 4th with this past weekend
BtW, anyone tried Citadel of Pain on SB?Quote:
Originally Posted by bruenor
Is there any reason to play Spellshock over Pyrostatic Pillar?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordel
Pyrostatic Pillar can be played off of a Mox or SSG and Mountain turn one even if you don't have a two mana land in hand. That's very relevent against fast combo.
Also, it can be sided in versus decks like Threshold where Spellshock wouldn't be worth brining in (since it hurts you too and you already lose enough life to Ancient Tombs and such as is).
@Null Brooch: I love this card, but I'm not sure it fits into an aggro deck, even if it gets you Hellbent automatically. Where would you board it in?
@Citadel of Pain: This seems terrible, as most control decks have mana sinks. 99% of the time, I would rather just have a threat, probably an uncounterable one like Sulfur Elemental.
[QUOTE=Zork;278261]@Null Brooch: I love this card, but I'm not sure it fits into an aggro deck, even if it gets you Hellbent automatically. Where would you board it in?QUOTE]
I would really like brooch against landstill. In that matchup I would take out my 3 maindecked trinispheres and put in the 2 brooch and my 4th blood moon.
[QUOTE=bruenor;278271]I really like Null Brooch as a card, and to me this does not cry out "major suckage", so why don't you test this and report back to us like a champ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zork
If you come back saying "this new sb shit I have improved my landstill mu", you sure as hell get my full attention. (now, you asking if anyone likes null brooch, took me like three mentioning of the card to even bother checking it out, yes I know I'm incredibly lazy)
For the record, I still do not think I'd sb this over all the other shit I can't fit in there :/
And as far as the "goblin-blossom" goes, "me no likey" is where I'm at atm.
I've also dropped the Jittes and a mauler for Trinispheres because just like Taco said, people ARE going to try to "storm the format" now. Oh, I'm mentioning this because I think I've said "I hate trini" in almost every post I've made here for the previous six months. So yes, I think it's correct to re-md it for the moment :(
I found another card that actually gave me some kind of thrill for fitting it into this deck. It's called Elkin Lair, a World Enchantment Rare from Visions
Elkin Lair :3: :r:
World Enchantment
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player removes a card at random in his or her hand from the game. The player may play that card this turn. At end of turn, if the player hasn't played the card, he or she puts it into his or her graveyard.
It COULD be highly disruptive for the opponent, forcing him to play keycards without actual use, and may force him to discard cards he would have put to good use if he had the mana. For us, it can be used to achieve Hellbent faster, that Slogger in your hand won't clog it up with this one in play.
The manacost isn't that nasty either, :3: :r: isn't that hard and can be played at turn two, if necesary. The only real problem is, that it doesn't do anything later in the game, perhaps killing of some counterspells. Oh, and this one CAN be pitched to Pyrokinesis ánd Chrome Mox ^^. Maybe, if there's some space left in the mainboard, this card could be used quite well!
Let me know what you think.
I haven't played DS for about half a year, so i wanted to get some help before picking it up again ... i played a similar list like the one bruenor posted on page 78.
1.) Why is nobody playing SoFaI anymore? Is Jitte stictly better or are there MU's where Sword would be the better deal? I'm thinking about a 1-2 Jitte / 1 Sword Split MD without any Jittes in the board - should i cut the Sword?
2.) Although I'm quite sure that DS would be a good Metachoice, here's the breakdown of our latest tournament:
Top 8:
1. Gwb Survival
2. MUC
3. RG-Aggro-Loam
4. Ugr Threshold
5. Uwb Landstill
6. Ugr Threshold
7. Hierarch-Control
8. Solidarity
Deckbreakdown:
Survival: 1
Loam: 1
MUC: 1
Landstill: 1
Threshold: 2
Goblins: 2
Pox: 2
Staxx: 1
Counter-Nought: 2
Affinity: 1
Belcher: 1
TES: 2
Eternal Garden: 1
Dredge: 1
Solidarity: 1
Rogue: 3
.... am I wrong? Sure, there are two Pox Decks around, but except those i think DS should have a 50:50 or better MU against the field...
thx, surly
MUC, Pox, Loam, and Survival are all not easy matchups as well.
I don't know about Eternal Garden, but Rogue decks also often do well against us.
Loam and Survival actually aren't all that bad depending on the builds. Loam depends on who gets the more explosive start (And in your case, if you get a Dragon, because evasion is the best way to win this matchup and keep them from stabilizing). Survival depends largely on their manabase and what colors they run. Chalice for 1 shuts down a -lot- of Survival's better prospects against some builds, and Pithing Needle from the board helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zork
I've always made the point that MUC isn't that bad either. It's really not. MUC isn't even close to being one of Dragon Stompy's worst matchups. If you can stop Vedalken Shackles you'll win, and it's not uncommon to just go Threat, Threat/Swing, Threat/Swing/Swing, Pay the 2 to swing through Propaganda, Kill you. I'm not saying MUC is favorable or anything, I'm just making the point that it's quite winnable. It's nowhere near like facing Enchantress.
Pox, on the other hand, is really tough. Your best hope is to get enough guys down to mess with their math, and hopefully keep a Hellbent guy or a Slogger going. A lot of Pox depends on the skill of the player and how well you know the deck. Years of playing both as and against Pox has taught me to pretty much always know what a Pox player is holding, and what I should play when to minimize my losses. And minimizing your losses is your key. Sometimes Pox will just steamroll you, but a lot of times a couple subtle plays can let you hang on to games you could easily lose, or win games you shouldn't.
@Capt Hammer:
Good call, I actually forgot about pyrostatic pillar almost entirely.