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I cant imagine that MindTwist works as a "recovery or comeback mechanic" against an established countertop lock or a board full of Eldrazi. Twist is a pure and optional blowout technto run away with a favorable gamestate PREVENTING the opponents ability to recover from your favored position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
Hardly. If you're talking about it in Elves, Terminus comes from the top of the deck. What you're describing sounds winmore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Counter-top lock doesn't always come down by turn two - sometimes Miracles players need to find a piece, and Twist will slow them down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Same goes for Eldrazi (or Loam). The idea is to get a Twist off after Chalice but before they fill the board with creatures, allowing the Elf player more time to find a Rec Sage or GSZ before getting overrun.
Obviously against a fully assembled counter-top lock or Chalice plus "a board full of Eldrazis" this won't be enough, but I was thinking before the game-state gets quite so lopsided. despite what you might think of this format, games are not always so totally one sided.
I know this has come up before, but I don't have time to look for it right now. Other than Dual Lands, what cards are played in Legacy that are on the list? I had a thought after Maro asked about Snow lands on Twitter and I want to write about their impact, and who they will help and who they will not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Tabernacle, chains, abyss, nether void, candelabra, transmute artifact, eureka, moat, Lions eye diamond, city of solitude, null rod, aluren, mox diamond, cradle, sanctum, time spiral, recurring nightmare and cursed scroll. I think I missed few.
City of Traitors, LED, Tabernacle are more which come to mindQuote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Thanks.
The ideas I have seen are Snow, Legendary and Fast Dual Lands. I plan to explore each and the decks they would and would not help as well as the reasons for that. I have not actually seen a breakdown on how these cards would help those who are new enter the format. I think the impact will fluctuate largely and some decks will be much better off than others. Obviously.
When looking at the good that new Duals would bring, it would be amiss not to look at the balance issues other Listed cards would create. Not that I deem that as a reason not to print Duals, but it's something I wish to explore. For example, handing someone three Taiga does very little to help with building Lands thanks to other cards, but handing someone a set of Sea, Bayou and Tropical will help make Shardless. So in will have a large impact in some key locations.
Not to say this is even going to happen, but Maro really did not seem to understand how the printing of Snow Duals would help us, so if there is any chance this might actually happen, I want to pen an article as to how it would help and why it's a good idea. Also thats not a dig at Maro. He was asking real questions and getting real answers to which he would then ask reasonable (for a Legacy outsider) questions looking for clarification. I think this is worth exploring for those who can make these choices could use good information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Snow duals and the like are cheap attempts to get around the RL and all those would hurt are the Stores and Collectors. While I have no respect of people, who want a stock-market-light which requires less knowledge but wield a bigger profit %-wise, I fear it will hit resistance because of the dirty connection of WotC with the big stores.
I would welcome ANY RL reprints as I am a player and want others to experience the game and older formats without having to spend 3+ grand
Also Cradle (and Mox Diamond). In other words every viable combo deck except Reanimator, as well as every prison deck that's not white-weenie. Also Aggro Loam and 12 Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Unlike Duals, printing quality replacements for these has a big impact of allowing some decks to double up. Eight LEDs in Dredge/Storm? Two Tabernacles in play for Lands? This is potentially a lot less benign than simply running 5-8 dual lands I think.
Of course the Official Reprint Policy would need to be changed to allow Snow Duals at all - currently super types are not considered sufficient distinction according to that policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
It's a double edged sword, because the format could experience tremendous growth, but the meta would be skewed heavily towards fair decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I'd certainly welcome it, but my preferred printing would be a Dual that can't be run as a foursome (three maximum per deck). There is a precedent for rules text which alters the four-max rule already, and they'd be effectively as good as actual Duals for almost every deck. Even decks that run four (like Infect) could be built with only one ABUR Dual or built in budget form with a minimal setback.
I have a playset of each Dual and I want this to happen. Will it hurt stores? In the short term perhaps, but if Legacy is suddenly more popular I think it would help them in the long term. Will it hurt Collectors? No. I am a collector, I have a collection, I play with it. I want this. Will it hurt horders? Why the fuck should I care?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Also, as Crim points out, more duals available doesn't cause major issues to the way the format is exists. The only deck I have ever see run a shock as "Dual number 5" is Dead Guy. No one else would do that. What they would do is spread out their duals in competitive decks to dodge things like Surgical and that's about it.
Some UR delvers did run steam vents as volc number 5
Personally I'm okay with decks running a fifth on-colour dual. I don't think it would push any decks to busted power levels. Basics are good in this format.
I can confirm that that would be a catastrophic success.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
Functional reprints opens up a discussion about what cards would suddenly go over the moon with the printing of buddies 5-8, and though I'm interested in having/seeing it, I don't think Wizards is likely to test thoroughly enough to prevent some kind of ridiculous shenanigans. If they know their limitations, they probably wouldn't want to consider functional reprints.
I guess there's always the strategy of saying "if you have [RL card] in your deck, you may not play this card [i.e. the facsimile]," but that's goofy even without considering the logistical and gameplay issues that might cause depending on how they handle it.
This is going to take a while, I need to talk and not pratel. My essays all have that same problem. I will get this done though.
Nah it's real simple mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
They print Jizz-glazed Eye Diamond, and they ban Lions Eye Diamond.
Problem solved. Thank me later.
Bukkake Diamond is only appropriate with Tentacles of Agony
Yeah, aside the fact that they would look like full retards to ban LED and leave the functional reprint legal for whatever reasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
Well two things..Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
1: wotc already are apes
2: they would look like bigger retards if they did good for the format and got around the RL issue but then allowed people to play with 8 Lions Eye Diamonds, thus not actually solving the RL issue.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0f3QxNUAAApgs3.jpg
Merry Christmas from all of us at the Salt Mine (www.thesaltminesite.com - new ep out today)
Fun fact: Tendrils of Agony translates to "Tentacles of Anguish" in Japanese, so we're already halfway there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds
I've heard that Empty the Warrens has a pretty funny translation, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namida
Is it drain the swamp per chance?
LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds
I found the link that had some pretty great translations if you Google Translate it: http://www.bigmagic.net/bmo05/legacy/03.html
Highlights include "Regular Work" for Preordain, "Goblin of Arson Gun" for Charbelcher, "Glyceraldehyde Brand" for Griselbrand, "Squirting the Tyrant" for Tidespout, and "Crimson Hell" for Pyroclasm.
Squirting the Tyrant sounds like a hentai I've (likely) watched
I know "Greater Good" was apparently mistranslated as "Better Merchandise" but I can't remember which language that was in.
Google Translate tells me it's "Crimson Breast". :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
Other stuff:
"Ceremonial Ceremony / Cabal Ritual"
"Congress of Congress / Council's Judgment"
"Behind the Beatles / Craterhoof Behemoth"
And Jace is appearently called Jerry in Japan.
Anyone read that SCG Premium article? I know we're boycotting that store so... if there's some way :cool::wink:
I don't have premium. What was it about?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
If only there was a way to be more specific... seriously, there are like 10 a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
The Japanese translation for Tidespout Tyrant literally means that kind of squirting (the word they use is the same one for a geyser eruption, but it's slang for a *different* kind of geyser). People at my local store normally scream something obscene everytime one hits play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds
This is, without compare, the best use of this thread bar none.
Neither do it, I just read the 2 paragraph preview. The talked about "Miracles dominating Legacy."Quote:
Originally Posted by wsurugby10
The one by Sam Black titled "My Banned Wish List."Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
That is actually mindblowing knowing that and I now need a set of Japanese Tyrants on the off chance I play them xD
"Jerry, Jace, the Mind Sculptor." "Jess, Jess, Jace, the Mind Sculptor." "Jerus, Jess, the Mind Sculptor." "Vincent's Shadow, Jayce." I can't maintain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Regarding the banlist wish list, has anyone read the whole article? Interested to hear what else (if anything) it says about Legacy. I'm guessing the preview version said everything there is to hear, but still.
Does anyone on here actually pay for star city premium so they can read these useless articles? Seriously. You're paying money to read "better content" but you end up with some dudes wish list on cards he think should be banned. I could write a blog post that is equally meaningful
I choose misty rainforest, seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
Of course its misty Rainforest in all these examples. Its the card which powers ever Ponder, Brainstorm, TC. Its essentially what I say since forever: The enabler is not Brainstorm but fetchlandsQuote:
Originally Posted by ramanujan
I get the sense from the comments that Sam Black's article is mostly about Modern, but he does argue for banning Sensei's Divining Top in Legacy on the basis that 1) Miracles is too dominant in Legacy, and has been for a long time, 2) the Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top lock is too miserable to play against, and 3) Sensei's Divining Top uses up too much clock time. He specifically states that it should have been banned in Legacy when it was banned in Extended for reason 3 alone, but alleges that it was left alone because WotC doesn't particularly care about the health of Legacy.
An anecdote for the cantrip haters:
At my FNM last night I played a degenerate 20-land 8-cantrip Stoneblade deck with 4 drops.
I got paired against Maverick, which I think is a bad matchup for Stoneblade. I ended up winning the match 2-0. How did it happen?
My opponent had reasonable hands and played well to the best that I could tell from the other side. I was definitely on
the ropes in several spots. But throughout the match I cast infinite cantrips (hiding fetchable lands and Equipments and shuffling them away like a skillful Blue player) and always found the timely land, the timely Wear/Tear, the timely Supreme Verdict, the timely True-Name Nemesis. There were cards my opponent could have that would mean trouble for me. But he could only hope to draw them naturally, without the assistance of Skillstorm and Pondurdle.
I guess all I'm really saying is "yup, cantrips are stupidly good". While I'm not advocating a particular ban, it is definitely interesting to imagine a Legacy format where you couldn't build the kind of deck I played. I'd like to think that right now we are at a point where the format has adapted to discourage this kind of deckbuilding with Chalice, Counter-Top, Thalia, etc.
Try running the same deck with Ponder + Preordain and see how pointless banning Brainstorm is for that kind of deck, as long as Fetchlands allow you to cherrypick cards off cantrips and a perfect manabase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphix
It is outright confusing if you name Miracles a SOLUTION to the cantrip orgy if the deck runs Brainstorm & Ponder itself