Miracle Control

Clearly because you played two sideboard games against Miracles that you have the proper boarding strategy. Please don't try to use this logic to justify your choices. If you have other reasons, that's fine, but say (or repeat/rephrase) those instead. Taking out Dig and Snapcaster is not a good strategy against Miracles in my opinion. You want all of the things you can which will let you generate card advantage. Hell, you might as well use Dig through time to find the cards that you're wanting to keep in instead. It's okay to have a little removal if you don't have anything better, but 5 removal spells is far too much to have against the mirror.

Also, this thread has gotten really bad lately: You all know you should be commenting about cards and the deck, not attacking people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

Ha you're funny. I wonder how I went 2-0 (2-0, 2-0) in both Miracles mirrors I played last week:

---

to be fair, there is quite a bit of luck involved in mirror, especially game 1.

If you are worried about creatures, won't it make more sense to drop all the Swords but keep in the terminus instead?

i would have instead done (on the draw):

-2 Entreat
-2 Terminus
-4 Swords
-1 Plains

+1 EE / or Judgement
+1 Pyrob
+1 REB
+2 Mentor
+1 Wear/Tear
+2 V Clique
+1 Flusterstorm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valtrix

Clearly because you played two sideboard games against Miracles that you have the proper boarding strategy. Please don't try to use this logic to justify your choices. If you have other reasons, that's fine, but say (or repeat/rephrase) those instead. Taking out Dig and Snapcaster is not a good strategy against Miracles in my opinion. You want all of the things you can which will let you generate card advantage. Hell, you might as well use Dig through time to find the cards that you're wanting to keep in instead. It's okay to have a little removal if you don't have anything better, but 5 removal spells is far too much to have against the mirror.

Also, this thread has gotten really bad lately: You all know you should be commenting about cards and the deck, not attacking people.

---

It works for me, for my list, for my play style. I only brought it up because the other guy called me out and he doesn't have any publicly posted results :rolleyes: Anecdotal evidence is poor but it's better than no evidence at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KZhang

to be fair, there is quite a bit of luck involved in mirror, especially game 1.

If you are worried about creatures, won't it make more sense to drop all the Swords but keep in the terminus instead?

---

If they're not playing Mentor (which I can't be sure of until I actually see it), sometimes I don't want to spend a Terminus on a single MM or VClique or Venser or Snap. Again, it's all personal preference. Also, having a StP in hand is better than a Terminus, which you have to find a way to Brainstorm back to the top of your deck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

If they're not playing Mentor (which I can't be sure of until I actually see it), sometimes I don't want to spend a Terminus on a single MM or VClique or Venser or Snap. Again, it's all personal preference. Also, having a StP in hand is better than a Terminus, which you have to find a way to Brainstorm back to the top of your deck.

---

The only real creatures you should actually worry about in the mirror are: Angel Tokens, Stoneforge Mystic/Batterskull, and Mentor.

For all those, Terminus is vastly superior. the others you mentioned are easily handled by your own SCM, Cliques, red blasts, or even karakas.

At the end of the day, it comes down to which are the best 60 cards in your 75.

Mirror matches are not won or loss by SCM or even clique beats, but rather by Top-CB and occasionally hay-makers like Mentor/Keranos/SfM/Elspeth.

Personally, i much prefer having a Flusterstorm/EE/Council's judgement/Entreat than a STP in hand for the mirror, any day of the week, in almost every version of current miracle build.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KZhang

Mirror matches are not won or loss by SCM or even clique beats, but rather by Top-CB and occasionally hay-makers like Mentor/Keranos/SfM/Elspeth.

Personally, i much prefer having a Flusterstorm/EE/Council's judgement/Entreat than a STP in hand for the mirror, any day of the week, in almost every version of current miracle build.

---

Mirror matches can develop into these scenarios:

1. one person resolves turn 1 SDT, turn 2 CB
2. one person resolves CB-T after some turns
3. no one resolves CB-T lock, 30 min slug fest at the least.

For scenario 1, if your Miracles opponent did this to you, it will take you lots of effort to try to break out of CB-T lock. It might be better off to just go to game 2 if this were to happen on game 1, for the purpose of conserving time.

For scenario 3, if this is in the SB games, CB-T lock might not matter, since some Miracle players are on the Cavern plan.

Overall, the Mirror still revolves around CB. This debate regarding Terminus is really not that big of deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by twndomn

Mirror matches can develop into these scenarios:

1. one person resolves turn 1 SDT, turn 2 CB
2. one person resolves CB-T after some turns
3. no one resolves CB-T lock, 30 min slug fest at the least.

For scenario 1, if your Miracles opponent did this to you, it will take you lots of effort to try to break out of CB-T lock. It might be better off to just go to game 2 if this were to happen on game 1, for the purpose of conserving time.

For scenario 3, if this is in the SB games, CB-T lock might not matter, since some Miracle players are on the Cavern plan.

Overall, the Mirror still revolves around CB. This debate regarding Terminus is really not that big of deal.

---

Agreed that terminus is not an important part of the matchup, especially compared to Counterbalance. However, a terminus or two left in the deck does provide answers for a mentor cast through cavern or an entreat the angels. I typically leave zero, one, or two terminus' in the mirror, depending on if I expect mentor or if they are on a heavier creature build.

Alright so I'm having trouble with the BUG Delver MU game 1 (post-board it gets better for us I'm sure). How should I approach it? I've been trying to protect by FoWing counterspells to get it to resolve CB, but it just gets Decayed anyway. Should I use CB as a pseudo Hymn in this MU and save my countermagic for my removal spells? It just seems that CB isn't as potent in this MU as it is against other Delver variants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

Alright so I'm having trouble with the BUG Delver MU game 1 (post-board it gets better for us I'm sure). How should I approach it? I've been trying to protect by FoWing counterspells to get it to resolve CB, but it just gets Decayed anyway. Should I use CB as a pseudo Hymn in this MU and save my countermagic for my removal spells? It just seems that CB isn't as potent in this MU as it is against other Delver variants.

---

I usually try not to cast CB because that give them the possibility to cast decay, i usually shuffle this away with Bs or pitch it to fow... usually my plan is to play around all of them tax counters and counter only Liliana if i don't have a solution in Hand or floating woth top... in my opinion is usually wrong to protect our threats with counters, keep them for protecting you from their threats unless the threat you're trying to resolve is clearly going to win you the game.

Playing like tbis means you can squeeze virtual card axvantage out from their decays and tax counters gaining the advantage that Cb would have give you vs a non decay deck. Usually if you resolve a Jace on an empty board you can not lose that game

This decks sucks right now. The omnitell matchup is absolutely miserable, man dig needs to get the hammer asap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ocean

This decks sucks right now.

---

Are you for real?

Yes, anything not playing 4 digs is subpar right now.

Quote:

---

The omnitell matchup is absolutely miserable, man dig needs to get the hammer asap.

---

That is only right for the Ponder list. I am trying to get back on legendary Miracles again, because of the meta. Schönegger is with very high probability right, that Ponder version is the best in a far open, unknown meta, but our Legacy meta online, and at least in europe is at the moment definetly not far open. Its full of Miracles and Omnishow. Thats why maybe Legendary build is really better at the moment. You have a far better MU against Omnishow - I would even say you are pre and postboard favored - and also in the Mirror against a ponder-version. And with over 10% proportion of each those decks, I think this could really be an idea not to sink in those decks. Also Venser isn't good against Liliana, he dominates her completely.

Regards
Freundla

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ocean

Yes, anything not playing 4 digs is subpar right now.

---

That's just speaking hyperbole.

Playing it the open at Indianapolis on Sunday and was wondering about the Sideboard. My current board is this with 1 Vendilion Clique in the main
Thoughts??
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Blood Moon
1 Council's Judgment
2 Containment Priest
1 Wear//Tear
Ponder Miracles with 20 Lands is the build.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raistlinim

Playing it the open at Indianapolis on Sunday and was wondering about the Sideboard. My current board is this with 1 Vendilion Clique in the main
Thoughts??
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Blood Moon
1 Council's Judgment
2 Containment Priest
1 Wear//Tear
Ponder Miracles with 20 Lands is the build.

---

Is the Pyroblast/REB separation that big of a deal? If not, I'd replace the Pyroblast with another sweeper, either Pyroclasm or Verdict. Grixis Delver is sure to be in full force, and DnT is still around.

So two REB effects only?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raistlinim

So two REB effects only?

---

I only play two in my SB. I suppose if you really wanted to you could just move one to the MB but I don't know your list.

Creatures [3]
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique

Instants [16]
2 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries [11]
1 Council's Judgment
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Ponder
4 Terminus


Enchantments [4]
4 Counterbalance

Planeswalkers [2]
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts [4]
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [20]
1 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Scalding Tarn

The only reason I'm considering 3 is because or the mirror and Omnitell.

Well, if you want to be picky about it have it your way. Im just a human being expressing my frustration after being consistently humiliated by omni (it reaaaaally sucks to lose to damn show and tell, jesus). Fact is that after playing this deck for 2 years or so by time to time i always felt like it was the top deck (peaking with treasure cruise meta imo). Until now. I think dig is maybe more powerful than cruise in a cruisless metagame. At any rate its a nightmare scenario for our deck.

Its been quite a long time since i played legends, probably better matchup with that but still, having them casting dig at your eot must be painful (no poder also means that your digs are slower, right?). Oh, and postside they got to play the damn pyromancer without any drawback whatsoever that just wins the game by itself and we have to keep 2 shitty terminus which are only good right after pyro hits the table...