[Deck] Goblins

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Originally Posted by Raznaak

The cards I can't choose from are:
+2 Pyrokinesis (for the new UR Delver deck and the like)
+1 Boartusk Liege (escape most burn and control and boosts my green men) and +1 Chalice of the Void (Obvious reasons)
+1 Chalice and +1 Stingscourger (dude's awesome against Reanimator and SnT, which are popular in my meta, as well as against most decks for the kill)
+1 Boartusk and +1 Stingscourger
+3 Pyrokinesis and -1 Incinerator from the Sideboard.
+2/3 Extirpate/Surgical Extraction (because damn those would have been useful against all of them, especially with Cabal MD now) -0/1 Incinerator

What are your thoughts?

Also, what are your thoughts about Relic of Progenitus vs Grafdigger's Cage, since I've seen my share of Reanimator and Green Sun Zenith yesterday?

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I've really been liking Stingscourger in a variety of matchups. He seems most significant against Reanimator and the like, but clearing a single blocker and attacking for 2 more for just 1 mana when you have a warchief out is sweet. He also clears a path for an early lackey. Cavern -> lackey into land -> stingscourger to bounce DRS/mom/nettle/delver/etc on T2 is so good.

Pyrokinesis is excellent, and I think of all the red decks that goblins is the best suited for it (thanks to ringleader making up for the card you lost to the alternate cost). I run 2 in the side and don't see myself taking them out any time soon. Could vary based on meta but it rocks against D&T and Elves, which seem to be everywhere.

I really want to try chalice, but since I haven't done so yet I can't really recommend it (or say to the contrary).

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Originally Posted by Raznaak

Edit @goblinpiledrive
You play three colors? That's a tad risky, and I kinda know what I'm talking about (played RWB for like two months before trying RB, loving it so far).
Also, since you seems to like to play Warchief and no chieftain, TSH and Warchief is kind of a nonbo. And you really don't like artifacts :tongue: (2 gobo-shatters MD and 3 spells that destroy artifacts SB)
Although, I am kind of new to the Legacy world (since April, I think, when I won the local 1K with the RW brew), and I may not know all the shenanigans yet, and I don't know your meta. Sorry if it displeased you.

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I actually was playing 4 colors for the past ~6 months up until the night before the open. I rarely had color fixing problems too.

However I cut white out because I found myself not wanting Thalia or RIP very often. I had 0 color fixing problems all day at the open, and don't expect it to ever be a common problem.

The reason I'm ok with Warchief + Tin Street is that it's pretty easy to play around. You generally know if you're going to be facing jitte/batterskull/etc before you lay down your first warchief, so you can prepare accordingly. I think it's too crucial to get rid of those pesky equipment cards ASAP so I like the low cost of Tin Street primarily for that reason as opposed to the 4CMC of Tuktuk. However, Tuktuk can be abused with Kiki and gives you another reason to like having a vial on 4. That's how I ended up liking the 1/1 split on them. I run so much artifact hate because I see far too many stoneforge decks in my local meta. There are a handful of MUD, painter, and Tezz decks floating around too.

It was really awkward playing against 0 stoneforge mystics through 9 rounds on Sunday, but I guess that's just up to chance. My artifact removal got sided out often, but there were a few matches where they were really helpful (such as blowing up feline's candelabra to stall long enough for a win).

Thank you all for your thoughts and insights, I will try the changes at the next local small tournament, and I will maybe one day move to bigger tournaments, who knows?

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Originally Posted by OlegtheSuper

Dear Warchiefs!
I'm going to play in one of the biggest tournament in Russia TopDeck Open.
And i want your advice about sb.

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I personally think 1-2 Umezawa's Jitte in the board would be really well placed in the current meta. Similar to the miser's Sylvan Library in BUG variants, you will never actually be sad to draw it, because you always kind of want it.

But in all honesty, when you have blank sideboard slots and you don't know what to put there, you can basically never go wrong with Pithing Needle. It will always do it's text, and it will basically always be relevant, it's just not a hoser or a silver bullet.

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Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard

I personally think 1-2 Umezawa's Jitte in the board would be really well placed in the current meta. Similar to the miser's Sylvan Library in BUG variants, you will never actually be sad to draw it, because you always kind of want it.

But in all honesty, when you have blank sideboard slots and you don't know what to put there, you can basically never go wrong with Pithing Needle. It will always do it's text, and it will basically always be relevant, it's just not a hoser or a silver bullet.

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thank you very much! i choose 2 jitte. So my main and sb is:


4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 AEther Vial
2 Tarfire
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
3 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Chieftain
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Tin Street Hooligan
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Settler
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Volcanic Island
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
2 Pendelhaven


SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Boartusk Liege
SB: 2 Magus of the Moon
SB: 3 Swan Song
SB: 1 Flusterstorm

i have some troubkes with sb-in sb-out

vs Jund
+1 liege(plague, charm, pushfire)
+3 relics
+1 grip(if plague)

-1 pyro
-1 shooter
-1 tin
-1 ???
-1 lackey(on the draw)
-1 sting(on the turn)


vs BUG Delver(VERY BIG TROUBLES WITH SB)

+1 grip(if plague)
+3 relic
+2 blast
+2 magus
+1 liege

-1 shooter
-1 tuktuk
-1 tin
-1 settler
-1 instigator
-1 mwm(on the play)
-1 lackey(on the draw)
-1 sting(on the draw)
-X ??????


vs D&T
+2 Jitte
+1 Grip
+1 Liege

-1 Settler
-1 sting
-1 lackey(on the draw)
-1 mwm(on the play)
-1 ???



vs Merfolks

can somebody tell me about Jitte vs Merfolks?
i dont know do i need all 2 of them or oanly 1? They have TNN and image so no one goblin will activate(i mean pass through) jitte on it. Or i'm wrong?


vs MUD

+1 grip
+2 magus

-1 shooter
-1 mwm(not sure about to sb-out them)
-1 vial
-1 vial(on the draw)
-1 XXX(on the play)



I choose blue because i want to win vs S&T, reanimate, miracle(i know that it is good match), to surprise ANT. Dont want to be weak vs Massacre and i realy think that thalia do nothing vs S&T with no rishadan ports.

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Originally Posted by OlegtheSuper

thank you very much! i choose 2 jitte. So my main and sb is:


4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 AEther Vial
2 Tarfire
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
3 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Chieftain
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Tin Street Hooligan
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Settler
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Volcanic Island
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
2 Pendelhaven


SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Boartusk Liege
SB: 2 Magus of the Moon
SB: 3 Swan Song
SB: 1 Flusterstorm

i have some troubkes with sb-in sb-out



vs BUG Delver(VERY BIG TROUBLES WITH SB)

+1 grip(if plague)
+3 relic
+2 blast
+2 magus
+1 liege

-1 shooter
-1 tuktuk
-1 tin
-1 settler
-1 instigator
-1 mwm(on the play)
-1 lackey(on the draw)
-1 sting(on the draw)
-X ??????

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BUG Delver is a very difficult MU and a little tricky to side against. Just remember though that this is a grindy, grindy matchup. You need to win the war of attrition, and as such you should side out as few goblins as possible. I wouldn't bother bringing in Magus (they have DRS anyway) or REB (they might go for Goyf beats instead of Delver). I'd definitely bring in Relics, and I'd only side KGrip if you're worried about EPlague.

Never side out MWM against Goyf decks. Or Stingscourger. I'd take out Tuktuk, TinStreet, and 1 Pyrokinesis (their discard makes Pyro a little weak) and bring in 3 Relic. And replace the Settler with Boartusk.

Just remember they're grindy. So you need to clog the board, dodge sweepers, and win after overwhelming them. This is also a matchup where Krenko really shines.

Yea, it sounds like you are overboarding. I used to do that against them as well. As JRW said board very little. I can kill delver with relative ease, but when I lose to them it is always double goyf. You might notice in our primer grave hate is king in that matchup.

Ok thank you very much! I get it.

Went 2-0-1 last night at the Mead Hall's weekly Legacy event. I played my Rb gobbos with 3 Frogtossers and 2 Earwig main.

R1 - DnT
G1 he mulled to 5. I Prowled in an Earwig squad before he could cast a SFM and stripped his deck of equipment. Nice Squires. W.
G2 I kept a slow hand without removal or Vial. Big mistake in thie MU. L
G3 I ground it out, used Pyrokinesis to almost clear his board and tuktuk to blow up the 1 piece or equipment he landed. Sharpshooter provided the CA late game to close it out.
1-0

R2 Lands
G1 he 20/20'd me and I couldn't find a Stingscourger/Weirding.
G2 he actually had mana problems and I had a Vial. I hit him with a Tarfire for the final 2 points.
G3 he had a slow start and I all the answers. He plays EE @ 1 with 1 mana up. I Lackey in a Tuktuk. He plays Tabernacle but doesn't have Loam going. I Waste Tabernacle and he doesn't have the mana available to Stage it. I then fill the board and he doesn't have the Chasm.
2-0

R3 DnT
This was a feature match and I'll post the video when the Meadery puts it on Twitch. G1 He ground it out. G2 I ground it out and used Tarfire to finish the last 2 points. G3 started in turns. I'm looking forward to posting this video because Greg plays DnT like I play Goblins (all the goddamn time) and the match was super fun and interesting. I really wish we'd had enough time to finish the last game because I had a solid hand that game but still ended in topdeck mode. Good stuff though, and Greg's a good player and cool dude. I don't think he's on The Source though...

Does anyone else think Sudden Shock might be well positioned in the board right now? I'm heading to a sunday event this weekend and am planning to run 2.

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Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard

Does anyone else think Sudden Shock might be well positioned in the board right now? I'm heading to a sunday event this weekend and am planning to run 2.

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I have absolutely thought the same, but it is a pretty low-impact sideboard card for a non-goblin. It might be the dogs bullocks against infect, but it's pretty run of the mill against everything else. I mean, not much better than Tarfire. But, if you're testing/playing proves otherwise I'd love to hear it!

Here's me playing against DnT in the last round last night. We're the final match of the video.
http://www.twitch.tv/themeadery/b/595437306

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

I have absolutely thought the same, but it is a pretty low-impact sideboard card for a non-goblin. It might be the dogs bullocks against infect, but it's pretty run of the mill against everything else. I mean, not much better than Tarfire. But, if you're testing/playing proves otherwise I'd love to hear it!

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We'll see if I can fit it in the board. I just went through a small playtesting section against the only deck I'm expecting that I have zero practice against. I'm currently struggling on how to play against Jeskai Stoneblade. They play threats that require very different types of answers, have that draw engine that every deck now plays, and tons of removal. It's kind of reminding me of how I felt about BUG Delver when I first played against it, and I eventually came to the conclusion that most of that match-up is outplaying the opponent and no number of silver bullets fix it. This match up might be the same...


Stoneforge Mystic, Young Pyromancer, True-Name Nemesis,

Of the 3 threats mentioned I feel like I can only realistically answer them if I draw in the right order. Things have to line up.

Pyrokinesis handles the most things at once, but that True-Name Nemesis will eventually come down.

Past all of that, I can't afford to board much because I need to get ahead of their card selection AND draw, gotta respect that goblin count.

I'm willing to try any build of goblins if you guys think one is better positioned than the other, because I expect this deck to be a reasonably large part of the meta.

Ideas?

Maybe you could try to bring-in the good old mana-denial list of Goblin: with Rishadan + Waste, they might struggle with real mana-denial, espiecialy for the 1UU of TNN. In such a list, I would say that white-splash is the best option because Thalia works really well with mana-denial. We dropped Rishadan Port mainly because of DRS, who maid our denial-plan a lot weaker. Now that Shardless - and thus DRS - is less played, you might want to give Rw-denial lists a shot again.

Do we need sb-in canonist vs S&T?

Do we need thalia vs infect?
Do we need thalia vs BBD UWR?

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Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard

Stoneforge Mystic, Young Pyromancer, True-Name Nemesis,

Of the 3 threats mentioned I feel like I can only realistically answer them if I draw in the right order. Things have to line up.

Pyrokinesis handles the most things at once, but that True-Name Nemesis will eventually come down.

Past all of that, I can't afford to board much because I need to get ahead of their card selection AND draw, gotta respect that goblin count.

I'm willing to try any build of goblins if you guys think one is better positioned than the other, because I expect this deck to be a reasonably large part of the meta.

Ideas?

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Engineered Plague is a great answer to both Young Pyromancer and TNN. Artifact removal is necessary versus their equipments. I played a few games with Earwig Squad versus them, and it was quite good the few times I played it. After the board they have access to Kor Firewalker. If you want a sexy answer for that one, play Nameless Inversion. Still haven't figured out the matchup, although I playtested it a bunch before GPNJ. Good luck, and please share your results and discoveries, I'll look forward to it.

Love reading this thread when I can. Keep up the good work =)

Regarding some points:
- Cannonist should be brought in against SnT, but is not all that awesome.
- Thailand is great vs Infect. They have a tight mana base and need to cast 2+ pump spells in one turn to win in one swing, so she will buy you time.
- don't think Thalia is good enough vs bbd list. Their mana is good, removal is cheap, and they are cantripping and drawing lots of cards, lands included, so Imo it would be better to have more goblins than her.

@version: if I were to play goblins today, would probably go with rb with 1-2 squads main and plagues on the side. That seems awesome now. Would also consider Frogtosser, but Jwr can probably speak better of it now than I can.

@jrw1985 - Can you talk a little bit about Warren Weirding please? I've never played with the card and it seems very appealing currently. Every game I lost at SCG Richmond was to Jitte (Plus TNN) or Tendrils of Agony. Having an answer to TNN seems nice and it obviously has Show & Tell applications.

Scatmax, what do i have to sb-out vs infect?

Have any of you yet run into Jeskai Ascendancy/Fatestitcher? I've been seeing a lot of this on MODO for the past several days and having a hell of a time dealing with it. Any thoughts?