Dread of night :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobra_D
Printable View
Dread of night :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobra_D
Hey there, young person. How about Massacre Wurm?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobra_D
This is true, but in most D&T lists Mirran Crusader is being cut or is in reduced numbers to make room for the other toys - like Prelate. I play one myself because there's lots of BUG decks in my metal, but I've seen many decks with none at all, or only as a 1-of in the sideboard. Plus, you'll still have Path or Plow to take care of it outside of Mom protection (and many D&T lists are even dropping to 3 of her!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
lost the league with bug fit
2-3
beat BR reanimator
beat 4c loam
lost UW hatebears/TNN/SFM
Lost W Eldrazi (t1 chalice, t2 smasher, t3 smasher)
lost Grixis delver/TNN
felt bad. varianced in my bootyhole.
Went 4-1 in GP Milwaukee Legacy Challenge, good for 2nd place. Report and list forthcoming. :cool:
Let's assume that they will drop Prelate @ 2 or 1, depending on if your playing Punishing Fire or Path/Swords. Worst case would be @ 2 while on Jund builds, since that shuts down Decay/PFire and Deed. This would also shuts down Golgari Charm, but open up Toxic Deluge. What other "realistic" options does NicFit per default have to offer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa
Reclamation Sage // Requires to out manoeuvre MoM to take out Revoker.
Kolaghan's Command // Could target both MoM and Revoker, but the most likely scenario is that they will protect Revoker while sacrificing MoM. So this would require a follow on play.
Pithing Needle // Shut of MoM
If you really fear this play then first thought would be to include bigger removal:
Damnation // probably the preferred choice, since this also takes out Eldrazi boards. But kills your own board.
Chandra, Flamecaller: Sweeps and kills, if not answered... Yes, yes, RR and CMC 6 is a pain. But running double Mountain, 2x Stormbreath Dragon's and a pair off balls will improve any matchup playing something white (looking at you Miracles...).
Black Sun's Zenith // Dodges Prelate, and shuffles back making it sort of recurrable. But also hits your creatures.
Virtue's Ruin // Meta specific and @3.
Dread of Night // Very specific and only takes care of the MoM problem.
Dark Blast // Also very specific, but is @1, recurrable and instant speed.
Lightning Bolt, Death Mark, Funeral Charm, Dismember, Disfigure // Specific spot removal could be added in specific meta's, But i do not believe that bringing in spot removal from the board is better then either sweepers, permanents, recurrable or tutorable cards (for NicFit at least).
And the last alternative Defense is going on the Offense here. Bring out the fatties and attack into MoM. Eventually they will have to sacrifice something, if not all eventually. Also, putting on pressure on the opponent might force mistakes... And to the very least your going down guns blazing...
But one crucial factor here is: how did you get in this situation in the first place? What error on our side gave so much room for our opponent to develop a board like this? Aside from the obvious losing the dice roll and having to mull into an opponent's god hand.
Sanctum prelate@2 doesn't stop Pernicious deed, it's CCM is 3 !Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Did you forgot Engineered plague naming Human ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Engineered explosives seems a good option too !
I did not forgot, I merely Explored some options here.
Also i did Mind the Revoker on deed.
Took Nyx Fit today. 5 rounds.
1: Storm
I don't get enough interaction, and lose. Game 2 I don't find a Leyline. I strip his hand with Therapies but don't have a clock or a lock piece and eventually he goes off any kills me anyway.
0-1
2: BUG Shardless/Countertop
I mull to 5, but Deed keeps him away for a bit. He resolves three Ancestral Visions and eventually I can't find a second deed and die. Game 2 I quickly kill him with Nissa and misc threats. Game 3 I get close, but can't find a Deed to stop his Goyf + Agent beatdown and eventually fold.
0-2
3: Deathblade
Deed kills TNNs. I wipe out his stuff with Deed a lot, and Therapy Batterskulls out of his hand. Rector and Veteran are Moats for quite a while.
4: UB Reanimator
Game 1 he makes Griselbrand on turn one. Game 2 I have Leyline of the Void into Spirit of the Labyrinth into Humility + Starfield. Game 3 I have double Surgical Extraction into hardcast Leyline into Living Plane + Doomwake Giant.
5: 4C Loam
We grind away for ages - I eventually stabilize with a Faith's Fetters on his LOTV and Deed for Knight + Deathrite, but eventually get ground out by Punishing Fire + more Deathrite Shaman and can't find another Deed. Scavenging Ooze is great against Starfield. Game 2 I sweep his stuff and Doomwake his lands, and game 3 (with 6 minutes on the clock) I get a fast Starfield (Rec-Saged), follow it up with Doomwake, then make Living Plane again leaving him with only a 10/10 KOTR, which I chump with my lands for a couple turns while I kill him.
- A maindeck answer to Storm would be nice, like Leyline of Sanctity. Might just be a matchup we accept we fold to though.
- This deck kind of wants 4 Deeds. Seriously it's even more disgusting than normal here. We have a lot more explosive starts due to the 3x Tower setup.
- Zenith is often a bit underwhelming in the deck, unless you actively need a Witness. Fetching Eidolon, or Courser if you have Top, is nice but not really very impressive. A stronger pressure target might be something to look into.
Engineered Plague is even easier for D&T to beat than Dread of Night. Naming human does nothing for Revoker, SFM, Flickerwisp, or Serra Avenger (and I'm not sure if it affects tokens from Gideon or Elspeth), and many of the humans are also 2/2 or 3/2 (THC, Mirran Crusader, Sanctum Prelate) that still survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by grokh
Taking Sneak Fit for another spin at a weekly tomorrow. Does anyone have sideboarding principles or advice for the following matchups?
Aluren
Aggro-Loam
Lands
They're all relatively common in my meta, and I find them difficult to beat with Junk Fit.
Hm, Blood Moon could help out with those? I can't remember how many basics Aluren plays though. Lands does feel quite difficult for Jund.Quote:
Originally Posted by gth842s
Went 5-0 in a local paper league. Completely dodged my friend on TES :tongue:
M1, BR Reanimator - Win 2-1
G1, T1 Sire of Insanity Herp Derp
G2 & 3, Faerie Macabre did a lot of work and is immune to Collective Brutality Discard mode.
Sideboarding
- 1 Prime Time - 1 Sigarda - 1 Swagtusk - 1 Meren - 3 Pernicious Deed - 1 Explorer
+ 1 PTE +1 Thoughtseize + 3 Surgical Extraction +2 Faerie Macabre + 1 Ethersworn Canonist
M2, Miracles - Win 1-0
G1, Slugfest as usual. Held a Liliana since my starting 7 and protected her all the way to her ultimate with Atraxa ticking her 2x as fast up after getting the all clear to resolve her like at turn 11.
M3, RUG Delver - Win 2-1
G1, Won the die roll, T1 Therapy for Stifle hitting 1 and proceeded to ram Explorers into known 2x Fows in his hand before Deathrite took over.
G2, Delver starts on the play, Mongoose into Stifle -> Waste on my Bayou -> Stifle 2nd fetch and I died with 1 Karakas :really:
G3, Kept a 6 Lander with 1 Decay ala SNAPKEEP, he wasted time on my lands while I drew business like DRS and had the Decay for his lone Delver.
Sideboarding
- 1 Prime Time - 1 Sigarda - 1 Meren - 1 Pridemage
+ 1 PTE + 2 Carpet of Flowers + 1 Pithing Needle
M4, Shardless BUG - Win 1-0
G1, He conceded because he was going to deck out and I had the 2 Towers engine going. Seems like having cantrips and visions is a liability :tongue: I basically looped Eternal Witness for Pernicious Deeds with 2 Towers and he can never muster a force to kill me off with me at 3 life. Lily did massive work picking off Strixes and Nissa was on 5/5 blocking duty.
M5, Burn - Win 2-1
G1, Did not know he was burn and kept a hand of DRS, Fetch, Fetch, PTE, Top, Lily & E. Wit. Goblin Guide into Searing Blood for DRS into triple Bolts/Chain = dead me.
G2 & 3, Fetch the Basics, rush for lifegain, whomp whomp dead Burn player. I stole G3 with Ethersworn Canonist punishing him for poor sequencing, he Lava Spiked me first and was unable to suspend Rift Bolt allowing me 1 more turn to GSZ Swagtusk to put the game away.
Sideboarding
- 1 Prime Time - 1 Sigarda - 1 Tireless Tracker - 1 Pernicious Deed
+1 Reclamation Sage + 2 Ethersworn Canonist + 1 Garruk Relentless
Decklist as per below
22 Lands
2 Plains
1 Island
2 Swamp
3 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
18 Creatures
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Quasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Khruphix
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Atraxa, Praetor's Voice
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
2 Planessalkers
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Nissa, Vital Force
18 Other
2 Sensei Divining Top
2 Path to Exile
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
15 Sideboard
1 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gaddock Tegg
1 Garruk Relentless
Probably something like "Meh, shit happens".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Thing is though - you can still win from this. Just pressure the shit out of them. You don't need to answer everything your opponent plays with removal.
I think I'm going to give Sigarda, Heron's Grace a shot in Starfield.
- Zenithable pressure (something the deck seriously needs, not being able to search up anything with 3+ power really is a problem)
- Not hexproof, but a 5-mana 4/5 is already immune to everything except Swords - and we already do well against decks that run Swords
- Has actual text against Storm
- Still ruins Liliana just like old Sigarda
- Easier on the manabase
- Sweet art
But still costs 5 or 6 mana to get on the field. High CMCs should be the first thing you cut vs. a deck like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
With that out of the way, the only upside you list for it over old Sigarda is that it's easier on the manabase.
That means you choose a slower, more easily removable (Karakas is also a thing) clock b/c it has WG in its manacost rather than WWG.
What you cut isn't really relevant, I'm talking about maindeck here since there's obviously way better Storm hate in the sideboard. Also I find that high CMCs generally mostly stay in because they're usually reasonable finishers once you stabilize, whereas spot removal does absolutely nothing and is first to go. Starfield is also a bit better at actually resolving high-cmc spells early just because it runs 3 Phyrexian Towers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
She's a faster clock if you have more than one card in your graveyard, to be fair.
There are very few tutorable cards which are:
- relevant against Storm
- remotely useful against fair decks
- not Gaddock Teeg because he turns off the deck
Also providing a clock (which the deck lacks) is a nice bonus, but not really the main point. Do you have any better suggestions for a card to put in that slot? Because I don't.
Dude, 5/6 mana cards aren't relevant against Storm. You're dead well before you'll ever be able to cast it, especially during G1 (when you don't have your SB hate yet).Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
Then what is it you're trying to accomplish with this particular slot? Is it to provide a GSZ'able finisher, to improve your G1 vs. Storm, to do something else?
I'm sure we can come up with something if we can figure out what we need that slot to do.
Most Nic Fit lists have at least something of a chance against Storm in G1 with Therapy into pressure, potentially with Teeg or Deathrite. Starfield builds have Therapy all the same, but are low on Deathrites and usually don't have a clock anywhere near as fast, so your game 1 is even worse than normal. I think the matchup would be okay (as in, 30-35% instead of 10%) with a better way of locking them down game 1. What the deck really wants is a Nether Void, but frankly I don't think I'm going to be able to find or afford one any time soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Separately, the deck currently has a problem where Zenith is really awkward because it doesn't find a finisher. It still has utility and stabilization, but nothing that applies pressure, particularly onto a relatively empty board. Sigarda Host of Herons is the obvious choice here but she doesn't have much synergy with the rest of the deck. I've been trying to see if there isn't a better option available, but there doesn't seem to be much out there.
Sigarda, Heron's Grace happens to fill both slots reasonably well.
Except it doesn't. There are faster/more resilient finishers and because of its CMC it's a non-factor vs. Storm.
Sounds to me like you need to cut a card so you can have 1 dedicated slot for hate and 1 dedicated finisher.
Teeg (as much as I hate the card) is your best bet for G1 vs. Storm, as for clocks it's either Verdurous Gearhulk (kills in 2/3 swings, dominates the ground and at least ignores Karakas) or good old Sigarda.