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Thanks for all the info!Quote:
Originally Posted by menloe
Been play testing a bit with a list minus dark depths, and the punishing fire engine is quite something when it gets online.
Suffering to back to basics/blood moon though ;) not used to that with regular mav where I run 4 basics.
With regard to red sources, I've only got 2 red duals in atm (plateau + taiga), but six red producing dorks (4 DRS, 2 birds), any thoughts if that's enough or is the 3rd source essential?
Hi! I've been playing maverick for some time now (quite sparingly though, since legacy tournaments where I live don't fire often) and I have two questions:
By the way, the version I play is GWb with no 3 drops other than kotr.
1) Which are the cards that you think are good in delver matchups? I was always told that maverick had an amazing matchup vs brainstorm decks but in my experience the matchup is more close than favorable. For me, abrupt decay and a low curve have been my best tools to fight them but I don't know if there are better ways to approach it. Maybe the punishing version is better? I'm scared that adding grove to the deck makes our manabase even more vulnerable (opposing wastelands are harder than I initially thought)
2) In which matchups does the dark depths combo shine? I know that it's bad vs opposing dark depth decks and decks with wasteland/karakas, but I don't really know in which matchup it's consistently good.
Thanks
IMO fetching basics, landing a DRS and spot removal is key in beating Delver. As long as you can cast your spells and release immediate pressure you should have the inevitably of better creatures/getting equips online. I don't usually run it but maze of ith is a great card for slowing Delver decks down. Same goes for Scryb Ranger. Fantastic at blocking Delver all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD
One of the main reasons dark depths is run is because in any MU your behind, you can still have an out with marit large technically. As far as MU it shines in I would say any B/G/xx fair decks really struggle against it.
That seems reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomRabbit
Depending how deep you want to go, I *really* enjoyed having Young Pyromancer in Pfire/Loam (1-2 of) engine decks. Takes that card to a whole new level where you're not only gumming up the board and increasing your clock, but you're doing it in conjunction with decimating theirs. Can't promise anything, but it was very enjoyable.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomRabbit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderknight
Like you, I've been questioning Sanctum Prelate lately. It seems so good on paper but tends to be underwhelming in reality. It's occasionally great against a few decks (ANT, Lands, occasionally Sneak/Show) but it is so slow and color requirement is often prohibitive. More and more I just think there is better hate than Prelate with wider application and cheaper casting cost. Perhaps going back to an E-tutor board provides the right flexibility.
Sanctum Prelate is one of the best tools ever given to Maverick in a long time. Note that I said tools, not staple.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyod17
The reason for this is that the card is meant to be part of firm lock and not, by itself, a purely disruptive spell. Teeg + Prelate allows you lock almost all non-creature spells in an opponent's deck--allowing you to fully dictate how the game plays out. You don't bring it in versus all spell heavy decks unless you can actually lock people out of spells.
As an example, Lands, ANT, Miracles, etc... are all decks where the combination of Prelate + Another hatebear almost locks them out of the entire game just by themselves. You don't bring it in versus decks with a large number of spells at different casting costs. Burn, RUG, Shardless, etc... are all spell heavy decks where simply having a 3cc Chalice is not good enough.
Hello follow Maverick Players,
I play Maverick since about 5 months now after playing ~2 years of TES/ANT.
I'm pretty happy now with Maverick and can deal with most opponents.
So I'm playing this weekend in a tournament and made a sideboard map.
http://https://ufile.io/tdyu9
It has 4 Categories to sideboarding(On the play/On the draw(right now they're the same since this already was a lot of work)) for the 14 Top Decks of MTGGoldfish.
Of course this is quite specifically for my list, which is currently this:
// 60 Maindeck
// 2 Artifact
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
// 26 Creature
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Mother of Runes
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
// 1 Enchantment
1 Sylvan Library
// 4 Instant
4 Swords to Plowshares
// 23 Land
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Gaea's Cradle
// 4 Sorcery
4 Green Sun's Zenith
// 15 Sideboard
// 1 Artifact
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
// 5 Creature
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
// 3 Enchantment
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Choke
// 3 Instant
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Blessed Alliance
// 3 Sorcery
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
But I'd say all in all this is a pretty common list.
The document I uploaded is a PDF-file, so you can't actually edit it, if you want the Excel sheet, just ask.
Would be great if you could help me/anyone else here in this thread to improve the spreadsheet, specifically with OTP/OTD strategies but also just general suggestions or to add other matchups.
I'll update the sheet frequently.
Best regards and pardon for the mediocre grammar, english isn't my mothertounge
Amace
Some small suggestions for mainboard-sideboard:Quote:
Originally Posted by Amace
1) Deathrite is so good that I'd play 4 all day, he is just plain better in the majority of the cases than the bird. I can understand substituting Hierarch for him too. DRS allows us to screw opponents' DRS by stealing their food, while acting as a manadork/healer/damager themselves.
2) Qasali + Abrupt Decay mainboard count less than 2 is asking for trouble. I'd add either Decays or a second Qasali to the mainboard.
3) Qasali in sb, unless moved to mainboard, might be better of as a Reclamation Sage, as it serves as a possible hatebear vs Sneak-Show and Aluren (no mana needed to destroy Aluren!) and works when Qasali is Needled/Revokered. You will not bring it in vs Elves, so there is no anti-synergy with Engineered Plague.
4) Is a second Scooze in sb really worth it? In matchups where you bring it, wouldn't you be better with an extra Surgical Extraction? Either way, I feel that 2x Surgical Extraction in sb nowadays is a must.
I feel like Scooze is really underrated. It's very good in the deathrite mirror by turning theirs off and just in fair matches in general is very powerful. Yes against fast graveyard combo surgical is better, but scooze has more flexibility
Scooze is sweet but I haven't played a second one in the board for a while. The way I feel is if I want a second scooze or scryb ranger etc then I'd just play a Renegade Rallier because by it can act as copies #2 of some bullets as well as do other stuff.
Good questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD
1. Delver is favorable, as in "odds are slightly above 50-50". It is by no means a bye for Maverick.
A lot of what I'm saying comes from experience, trials, and tribulations. I've put up decent results with the following thoughts.
Philosophy: IMO, delver decks live and die by their efficiencies: small core of threats, great filtering, ultra-low curve. Remove 1 of those 3 components and the deck grinds to a halt.
-If they pack stifle/wasteland, play conservatively and fetch basics. I've been burned countless times for greedy "well a savannah here is dope" early...but then I missed hitting 3 mana down the road.
-Thalia 1.0 + Wasteland does serious damage. What do you know, those 2 cards are the core of Maverick.
-KotR usually distorts the game in your favor the longer she's out. Nobody seems to respect her but I'll GLADLY chain wastelands over a few turns to reduce their mana to the fringe basic they have (if it's even there at all!).
-Kill [Delver] as soon as possible. He only gets worse with time.
-The secondary threat can hit you a few times before you deal with it (usually a splash color creature...Pyro, Goyf, DRS I'm looking at you) . If you had 1 removal spell, shoot down delver before you this guy. I say this because most often, the secondary threat lacks evasion. Mom & co can chump block for days.
-Ghost Quarter and Thalia 2.0 are "alternative options" for Maverick that kick Delver in the nuts. Personal choice on running them (as they will impact other matchups).
-SFM is hit or miss. If she (or the equipment) is removed/discarded, Delver capitalizes.
Removal: Everyone on the thread will disagree about the "best" removal card to run. If mana weren't an issue, I'd pick Decay over anything else. It invalidates their countermagic that the delver pilot banks on as protection (daze, force, etc). Since mana is a key to MTG, I begin with STP and proceed from there. STP doesn't discriminate against Angler and other higher cc "delve-casted" stupids.
Brainstorm isn't the problem: Alone in a vacuum brainstorm isn't the problem card. You need to stop Delver from profitably chaining 3-4 things a turn.
Brainstorm / fetch / probe / cast removal spell / attack with something.
Fetch / tap fetched land for U to Brainstorm / return fetched land to hand for daze / make pyro tokens in the process.
Ponder / Probe / Therapy for profit / DRS damage.
I tend to bring in 2x Canonists against Delver, which I find helps tremendously in conjunction with Thalia 1.0. Make shit cost more. Restrict them to 1 spell per turn. Sanctum Prelate is fragile against Delver and I tend to keep her on the bench unless I have irrelevant garbage in the main.
I dread facing RUG. They seem to always consistently ruin my day. Forked Bolt is a beating. Pyroclasm effects also hurt.
I enjoy UR delver, which I feel I'm heavily favored if I make it through turn 4 with momentum like KotR or a small team to slow them down.
***
2. I've had very strong success with DD/Stage but it takes a mentality shift: You're inevitably going to combo. You don't need to bee-line for it, but it certainly is there. The combo suffers against wasteland, karakas, maze of ith type roadblocks. I've naturally had it in the opener and won. I've broke open grindy stalemates. I've taken advantage of an opponent not realizing double KotR activations is GG. It wins through chalice. It wins by flying over everyone. Running DD/Stage requires GSZ. It also (arguably) makes your manabase worse. If you don't mind the greedy manabase, it will help your deck reach an auto-win against most fair decks. It does almost nothing against combo or control. You also should consider 1-2x Scryb Ranger main to make DD/Stage better...but my opinion of this setup is mixed.
My favourite Maverick (almost) exclusive play is the turn 2 Thalia + Wasteland. With regards to delver and killing it ASAP I agree except I'd probably hold onto the turn 1 plow just to make sure it doesn't get dazed because we don't have that many removal spells and we can't search for them.
The games I usually lose to Delver are the fast draws where I die before I can really get my game plan rolling, practice winning the die roll - It's huge in this MU :^). I lose to UR Delver a lot more than RUG, but I'm on Thoughtseize main over cards like decay so that surely doesn't help lol.
Nice post above but just want to point out that while normally Wasteland, Karakas, and Maze are all strong against Lage, in this deck our means of getting the 20/20 in play involve an active Knight, which beats all those cards by taking a turn off to find wasteland.
In the current meta--is it better to have 3 Thalia or 0 Maze of Ith? Asking for a friend, not me, and that friend is feeling really insecure about his 61 card list and would like to go down to 60 :(
The friend is also possibly me. Or not.
Cut the Maze. There's far too many Wastelands in the metagame to make it effective. It's at best a one turn fog with KotR.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
I really don't get why so many people get uptight about card 61. It's splitting the difference between one more land and one more business card, almost exactly. And once you're in Green lists that have:Quote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
* Land tutoring
* Equipment tutoring
* GSZ tutoring
having the extra tutor target is entirely defensible. If you're playing locals and what not, I'd encourage it even more because the stakes are low and the variance (since you'll only get a few rounds) is so high that you won't see the difference.
If you're doing a 10+ round tournament and there's a lot riding on it.. sure, go 60. But honestly, when you have so many tutors and then may even run a tutor-board on top of that? May as well jam the extra game-changer to tutor up.
Note: I'm always cognizant of the "slippery slope" claim, but there is none. Card 62 is no longer splitting a land in half, it's altering the proportions enough (normally Mtg decks have ~20 lands) that you may as well go to 63, because you've changed the dynamic. 61 IMO is different due to how the statistics line up, but 62+ is altering statistics in a way that demands you add another land probably, meaning you're losing out.
Also note: some decks have made it to top tables with 61 and even 62/63 cards (though the higher numbers were because they were "extra" Gitaxian Probes and I believe it was in RUG Delver decks)
i will probably going to cut maze, main deck is rly random, sometimes is good but 90% of times noQuote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
in today tournament it won a game vs taxes since he didn't know it was in my deck : kotr tap maze into combat untap an equipped flicker :eek:
but it's so easy to counter : wasterland, piting needle (flicker needle change target gg)
probably going for a 22 lands no combo with 2 scryb ranger, scryb is winning alone 50% of games, some decks have big problems with mothers+ranger main or shaman+ranger main or a ranger equipped with sword:cry:
it's the golden card i am rly enjoying to play atm more than 1x
I ran maze of ith in the sideboard today and it was amazing! it's just one slot and does so much for this matchup (and some others too). Anyway I don't think i want it in the maindeck like many people here play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luthiereisfun
I'm starting to play around stifle more, but if someone has tips for knowing which version plays it and which doesn't, it would be helpful. I know that grixis and UR generally don't play it, but sultai sometimes does (not always).Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
I have to agree about killing delver ASAP. Today I left some delvers live for some turns and it wasn't the best idea. As the spells in our deck line up with theirs, swords for delver is the best way to deal with it.
Today I played this list in a small tournament. Went 2-1 finishing second, won vs miracles (2-0) and grixis delver (2-1), lost vs reanimator (1-2)
//Lands
1 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
//Artifacts
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
//Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library
//Instants
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
//Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith
//Creatures
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
Vs miracles I did the gaddock+mom lock game one, game two I manascrewed him a bit and discarded some key pieces with thoughtseize. Vs delver, maze of ith did so much work. I wouldn't have won without it. I got the perfect kill, which was super sweet (my opponent died to a KotR with no cards in hand, no permanents on the battlefield). I managed to win one game vs reanimator but chancelor of the annex is a beating. I even left mother of runes post sideboard as a 1 drop to break the chancelor tax, just so I could cast surgical and friends.
Took punishing mav to a tournament for the first time, went 3-2-1 which after starting 2-0 was a bit disappointing, but considering one 4-2 made top8 I wasn't too far ;)
Overall 17th out of 43 players.
Decklist:
// 2 Artifact
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
// 24 Creature
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Noble Hierarch
// 1 Enchantment
1 Sylvan Library
// 7 Instant
3 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares
// 22 Land
1 Bayou
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
// 4 Sorcery
4 Green Sun's Zenith
// Sideboard
// 8 Creature
SB: 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Containment Priest
// 1 Enchantment
SB: 1 Choke
// 5 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
// 1 Sorcery
SB: 1 Fiery Justice
Matchups:
Elves 2-1
Lost a close game one where I locked him out with Gaddock Teeg and he fizzled with glimpse a few times, but he finally drew a craterhoof and smashed in for 100+ damage. G2-3 Sideboard cards from me really wrecked him, Fiery Justice is a house here, canonist and containment priest also doing a great job. On top of that punishing fire is pretty amazing here.
Reanimator 2-0
G1 he reanimates a tidespout tyrant, but can't bounce much with it. I go to swords, he has force. Over the next few turns he beats in for 5, while I wasteland him to 0 lands. Finally draw another swords, play Teeg to keep it safe, and get the tyrant off the table. Then proceed to beat down with 2/2s while he can't cast anything. G2 He reanimates an Inkwell Leviathan (I have two swords in hand...) but I manage to race him with thalia beats + DRS drain + punishing fire that I forgot to board out...
4c control 0-2
Very long G1 where he answers everything I do, but I keep drawing gas, finally a few 2 for 1's swing things in his favour (Kholagan's Command hitting batterskull + a creature ouch), and he sticks a Jace and that's game. G2 goes similarly, then I land a choke and game on, but he gets Liliana the Last Hope into play and plusses to slow my beats and finally ultimates and I die very fast.
Eldrazi 1-2
G1 Get smashed by Thought not into Smasher. G2 Stick a knight and wasteland lock him, finally swing in with two 10/10 knights. G3 repeat of game 1. Play/Draw seems super important here.
GWb maverick 2-1
The mirror!(ish). Don't get to play that very often! G1 Punishing fire stops him from doing anything. G2 Showcases the power of cradle as he empties my graveyard with scooze in one turn to shrink my knights to break a board stall. G3 I get to stick 2 knights early and the game ends pretty fast. The punishing version looks to have an edge in the mirror, the extra removal is very relevant.
Eldrazi 1-1-1
G1 Mimic into smasher into Endbringer, I die. G2 Big knight + wastelands. G3 he has a slow start, I get knight out and start going to town, he has all is dust and plays mimic + smasher, but he's been tanking hard all this game and we go to time before he can kill me.
I learned a lot from these games, and definitely played sub-optimally. Need to work on figuring out the lines with the new cards. Missed a few tracker triggers, both getting a clue and the counter. You should have seen my face light up in the elves game when I figured out I could get my punishing fires back by pathing a dryad arbor.
A few notes about the list.
- I'm still unsure on DRS vs noble in this build. DRS was great vs Reanimator, and produced a lot of red mana for me, but in a few games just sat there looking at land-free graveyards while I really needed the mana.
- Dark Depths. Didn't run it here, I'm a bit weary of it in GWb and wanted to try a lean list to get started, but I do think it could have won me a few of the games I lost. Would it have cost me any of the games I won? Hard to tell. I'll try it when I get my crop rotations.
- I really missed Gaea's cradle. It might be a bit worse with the lower creature count, but that mana boost is so helpful in tight spots.
Anyway I'll keep jamming punishing fires for a bit, the deck is really fun to play (But then it's Maverick so isn't it always ;) ).
just an info :
scryb ranger + renegade rallier :eek:
if a permanent you control left the battlefield this turn