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@Hanni
Your list has piqued my interest. I'm already running sfm in my affinity list along with batterskull, jitte, and of course plating. Also, I've considered expanding on the equipment package. Lasty, the fact you still included Tezz, such an awesome PW for affinity, has me sold on trying out a similar list.
Tezzeret? I think you misread something :P There's no Tezz in my build. It's mono white...Quote:
Today, 07:31 PMrxavage
@Hanni
Your list has piqued my interest. I'm already running sfm in my affinity list along with batterskull, jitte, and of course plating. Also, I've considered expanding on the equipment package. Lasty, the fact you still included Tezz, such an awesome PW for affinity, has me sold on trying out a similar list.
You're right i misread that somehow even thought I read it was monoW, sorry. I still want to check it out thought.
I just discovered an interesting interaction during playtesting. With Puresteel and a single Paradise Mantle, the deck can effectively tap down multiple creatures for mana. I had a game where I had double Puresteel and a Mantle, drew into a Swiftboots, chained a few equips into multiple Flayer Husks, tapping the Germs for mana and drawing a boatload of cards. I think I drew somewhere in the ballpark of 12 cards, made a bunch of mana, and swung with a triple Plated + a bazillion other equips Skirge for an insane amount of overkill damage for the win. :D
I recently decided to get into the whole Legacy scene, and since Mirrodin was one of my favorite blocks I went with Affinity. After testing a few different things I'm finally settled into an Esper build. So far it is:
Land
4x Glimmervoid
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Ancient Den
1x Academy Ruins
Creatures
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Disciple of the Vault
4x Vault Skirge
3x Master of Etherium
Mana Accel
3x Mox Opal
3x Springleaf Drum
Equipment
3x Cranial Plating
Draw/Removal
4x Thoughtcast
3x Brainstorm
4x Dispatch
Sideboard
4x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Krosan Grip
4x Tormod's Crypt
2x Pithing Needle
2x Engineered Explosives
I really like this build but I have a few things I'm not sure about.
1.) Is Disciple of the Vault still a relevant creature to run with Arcbound Ravager?
2.) Are Pithing Needle and Engineered Explosives good choices as sideboard options for this deck?
Thanks in advance for anyone with feedback!
@RumZ12
I would take out Disciple, Master of Etherium, Dispatch and Brain storm.
You are cluttering your build with Brain Storm and Dispatch, they seem nice, I have tried them but honestly the deck doesnt want or need to do that. You are never going to run into a creature that needs to be Dispatched, that you just cant chump block, and the occasion that you do, a Dispatch will not help you anyway.
Master of Etherium costs 3 and the only good 3 slot is Etched Champion, size does not matter when it comes to pro all colors. the +1/+1 is nice, but it will just get path'd anyway. if you really want to run Dispatch, and have a +1/+1 go with a tempered steel run anyway.
Ravagers, I used to run them, I love the card, but I was thinking about it one day, and I could not remember a time that Ravager won me a game let alone helped with a match, but I did remember many times they cost me games and matches, then I traded them for Inkmoth Nexus and have never been happier for a trade.
Signal Pest is actually a lot better than Master of Etherium too, it gives all attackers +1/+0 and can only be blocked with flying or reach, also it only costs one to cast.
I am a firm believer in Cranial Plating and Springleaf Drum taking up 8 slots in your deck. especially Plating being 4 of, you absolutely want to find it every single game, 3 of them.
I've been playing around with this list recently:
4x Frogmite
4x Ornithopter
4x Memnite
4x Signal Pest
4x Steel Overseer
4x Vault Skirge
3x Etched Champion
4x Galvanic Blast
3x Shrapnel Blast
4x Cranial Plating
4x Springleaf Drum
3x Mox Opal
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Great Furnace
4x Vault of Whispers
3x Inkmoth Nexus
It's based heavily off of Modern Affinity lists that I've looked at. I really like the mono red feel.
Solid looking list, man. Etched Champion seems a little out of place though, in a deck where you want to be as aggressive as possible. 3 mana for a 2/2, regardless of being pro colors and a great Plating-wearer, seems clunky. I have yet to try the build, so maybe I'm wrong.
I'd really like to see Atog and Disciple in that list, too. Those cards are extremely aggressive for Redfinnity.
Etched Champion is a must have. It is way to powerful, most of the creatures in Affinity are irrelevant in combat. they are small and easily destroyed. Etched Champion is the one card that is very difficult to deal with. no less than 3, I always run 4. game winner...
Glad someone liked the deck! I'll try out the Atogs and Disciples, but I'm not sure what else I'd cut to put both in. Maybe Ravagers might be better? Or just Atog or Ravager and no Disciple? Lots of things to try. I was also pondering Arcbound Worker as another weenie artifact dude that has a useful ability, so that could be another option too.
Arcbound Ravager is probably better than Atog, for the fact that it's an artifact to boost Cranial Plating, and the pump sticks around. I like Atog for the fact that you can goldfish really fast with him, but Ravager is likely the better creature.
Ravager + Disciple seems tailor made for a Sligh Affinity deck, though. I mean, each Disciple makes Shrapnel Blast hit for 1 more, and Ravager + Disciple can insta-kill an opponent once they get low on life.
Etched Champion is a must have in some builds of Affinity, like the Tezzeret lists, but I don't think it's a must have in a Sligh build like Zupponn posted. 3 mana for a 2/2 is really bad aggressively, regardless if he's a great Plating-carrier or not.Quote:
Etched Champion is a must have. It is way to powerful, most of the creatures in Affinity are irrelevant in combat. they are small and easily destroyed. Etched Champion is the one card that is very difficult to deal with. no less than 3, I always run 4. game winner...
The time has come and gone for Atog/Ravager. There's too much removal in the format, and they're exponentially worse in the deck without Disciple. Even with Disciple, I think traditional Ravager-Affinity isn't really viable in this format. It's too all-in when creatures are getting bigger each year and decks have increasingly more removal at their disposal.
I've been playing with the Tezzeret lists on MWS for a while:
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Glimmervoid
4 Great Furnace
2 City of Traitors
3 Vault of Whispers
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Frogmite
4 Signal Pest
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
1 Vault Skirge
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Mox Opal
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Pithing Needle
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Cursed Totem
Look ma, I still have room for FOUR Galvanic Blasts! As much as I think Tezzeret is the shit, my goal in g1 is to win as fast as possible, and I think Galvanic Blast aids this. The original deck I netdecked for this list had 3 Dismember in the sb, but I just think Blast does the same thing as a removal spell, except it can just win games.
Note the flex slot of Vault Skirge. At first I put in Arcbound Ravager, but I changed it to Myr Enforcer because I think Ravager sucks now, plus it doesn't interact with Cursed Totem very well. Myr Enforcer was really good for a while and I haven't been disappointed by it. However, I just decided today to cut it for Skirge because I could use another cheap flier and I think the lifelink is a good ace-in-the-hole I could use.
The list we were discussing wasn't traditional Affinity, though. It was a hyper aggressive red Sligh variation. Ravager + Disciple is still really, really strong in that build. I agree that Atog is not as good as Ravager. Also, alot of decks in the format right now are running Lightning Bolt and Dismember as removal, and Ravager dodges those just fine. Obviously you don't start sac'ing permanents to Ravager unless you have a Disciple down, against a deck packing Swords/Path, and only as the killing blow or in response to something getting destroyed.Quote:
The time has come and gone for Atog/Ravager. There's too much removal in the format, and they're exponentially worse in the deck without Disciple. Even with Disciple, I think traditional Ravager-Affinity isn't really viable in this format. It's too all-in when creatures are getting bigger each year and decks have increasingly more removal at their disposal.
Sure, in that build, Ravager + Disciple is pretty good. I just think in general the Sligh approach isn't really viable, because it loses gas fast, especially with no Thoughtcasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
I built sort of a budget(only used cards i owned) version recently and its been testing surprisingly well I'm beating decks i normally couldn't with the standard affinity build and i win 9 out of 10 mirror matches.
The build looks like this:
4x ancient den
4x great furnace
4x seat of the synod
2x city of brass
2x glimmervoid
0-1x contested war zone
3x mox opal
3x frogmite
4x vault skirge
2x ornithopter
4x memnite
4x signal pest
2x stoneforge mystic
3x master of Etherium
2-3?x etched champion
4x cranial plating
4x galvanic blast
4x dispatch
4x thoughtcast
Why run so much removal? I thought the same too until i tested it. The removal is 80% of the reason this deck has been testing so well for me. Imperial painter, elf, merfolk, mirror, goblin, and maverick all seemed to be winnable matches but were a struggle at times and seemed sometimes entirely dependent on the die roll but when i added 4 galvanic and 4 dispatch i did much better in these match ups.
why no spingleaf drum and aether vial? simply put i dont own them. the deck doesn't seem to have problems though with 11 chances to hit on each mana source . Through a lot of play testing it was rare that i ran into any situations where i didn't have the color i needed.
why no ravager and disciple of the vault- I didn't feel like they fit in this build. there were other cards like vault skirge and etched champion that i felt worked much better in those spots.
anyway i plan on taking this to a few local tournaments where combo isn't a big thing. any suggestions you have would be much appreciated.
Should i just invest in four ravagers , build glimpse affinity or just stick with what I've got?
Yes, some of those matchups are miserable, such as Painter and elves. But packing more 1-for-1 removal MD isn't going to help. If you really want to shore up those matchups you need strong SB removal that translates into card advantage, the physical kind or the virtual kind.Quote:
Originally Posted by barackielsackiss
If you're worried about tribal, ala Elves/Folk/Goblins, try Whipflare. Much more powerful than Dispatch and it's in red, so you can keep it in with Galvanic Blast. Whipflare isn't bad against Maverick either, since it can at least hit Stoneforge, but you're gonna need some luck to have Whipflare in hand before Mystic untaps.
Specifically against Elves, try Cursed Totem. First, it stops the Glimpse combo cold. A lot of their mana comes from Elves, so with Cursed Totem, you effectively shut off a large portion of their manabase alone! I tried Whipflare for a bit against them, but they can still recover. Moreover, they can sometimes blank your Whipflare with a huge Joraga War-caller. You can say that Dispatch can dispatch (!) Joraga, but like I said, you need stronger removal, and Cursed Totem is the best tool I've found to be devastating against Elves.
Cursed Totem is good against Maverick since almost all their creatures besides Goyf have mana abilities, including Dryad Arbor (don't forget, it can't tap for mana under Totem). It's actually really fucking effective, since it's self-protected from Qasali Pridemage.
Against Painter, you want 2 Pithing Needle, and you always want to name Grindstone. Cast all your Needles immediately, naming Grindstone. 1 Needle isn't gg, since they can drop Painter and Pyroblast. Two means you're in good hands, seeing as how you can bait their Pyroblast with Galvanic Blast targeting Painter. I've done it before.
Luckily for you, Whipflare, Cursed Totem and Pithing Needle are relatively cheap. SCG has Whipflare for $1.50, Cursed Totem for <$1, and Pithing Needle for $3. I would just get 2 of each.
LOL Springleaf Drum isn't used just for color fixing, it's also for increasing affinity for artifacts! By using it with Memnite or Thopter, it improves your consistency of hitting turn 1 Frogmite and it can help you cast Etched Champion and Master of Etheirum on turn 2! It's a $0.75 common. Get four.Quote:
why no spingleaf drum and aether vial? simply put i dont own them. the deck doesn't seem to have problems though with 11 chances to hit on each mana source . Through a lot of play testing it was rare that i ran into any situations where i didn't have the color i needed.
Vial is obsolete.
@ hanni:
in your mono-white list, is Batterskull really needed, i mean, you are the aggrodeck, vault skirge provides livelink allready if needed plus batterskull is not that big of a wall to stop a goyf or knight, or do you regularily have enough mana to bounce it and replay it?
also why no etched champion, IMO he would be just awesome in a epuipmentheavy list
i definitely love this list, its beautifull, i really had enough of all the standard lists, so your list is quite refreshing and picked my intrest again, plus now i am again intrested in affinity^^
I added the Batterskull just out of habit.
To be honest, I very rarely fetch it up. Most of the time, Jitte or Plating are just straight up better.
Etched Champion costs 3 mana for a 2/2 pro colors, which is cool, but I'm already running Mother of Runes, so I'm not sure that I'd want him. If I was going to fit in another creature, I'd Auriok Edgewright or Kor Duelist, because those guys can literally kill an opponent in 1-2 turns with a Jitte or Plating.
I would actually prefer Etched Champion over both of the other 2 creatures simply because he can passby any blocker, ( ok Mother of Runes does provide the same thing but it not like you will allways have a Mother in play)
i actually was thinking of either replacing mother of runes in that list for echted champions or adding the echted champions as an additional threat in the slots that are not extremely needed
since the list allready has lots of creatures with evasion and therefore, at least in my thought-process mother should not be that needed, so why not add another threat that is hard to deal with
either way i think that ancient tomb would fit the manabase better than blinkmoth nexus, speeding up the deck a bit, and life should not be an issue with 4 skirges, + jitte + possibly batterskull
what are your thoughts about it?
Mother of Runes protects all of my creatures, and is a 1 drop. Protecting Puresteel Paladin has been great. Protecting Vault Skirge has also won me alot of matchups. I like Etched Champion in U/B Affinity because it's alot easier for that deck to make 3 mana early, but Paradise Mantle is alot slower at making mana than Springleaf Drum is. I don't know... he could be good here, I didn't really test him much. I still like Mother of Runes in this deck.
EDIT: Ancient Tomb could be decent, I haven't tested it. I like that Blinkmoth can give me another artifact early if I need to activate Opal to hit WW for Paladin, and I like that he's another evasive flier to carry a Plating. He's also decent against control decks. Blinkmoth is not an MVP for the deck though, so it could be dropped.