[Primer/Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by D0LPHY

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. Given that you control Bottomless Pit, Noetic Scales, and The Rack, you choose the order of their triggers (even on your opponent's turn). Thus, optimally:

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I looked it up and you are correct; I thought it was just the active player who got to do it..

603.3b. If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses.

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Originally Posted by D0LPHY

To be perfectly honest, I feel Null Brooch, Noetic Scales, Uba Mask and Bottled Cloister are all unplayable due to their mana cost.

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Reid Duke played Bottled Cloister in his deck at the weekend and finished 23rd so even the Pro's are trying out stuff. I would agree that too many high cost cards are bad for a Pox deck but I see no reason not to try things out?

I agree, 4 drops are a stretch for me, and this is even afyer moving to green splash and dropping big Pox (though I still like a singleton in mono black). Trust me I have been sorely tempted to play cards like Damnation and even Garruck, Relentless, but when you consider how much of your own land drop and tempo loss even to yourself happens just through Wasteland and Smallpox, those 4 drops start seeming like 6 drops waiting to be tossed to your own Liliana or Smallpox much less whatever discard they may have. Speed kills in Legacy.

Hey Dolphy, How's it going? Are you still running the same G/B list? Any changes? I was thinking about replacing the 2 Drops of Honey in my board with 2 more innocent Blood to complement the two in the main board. To me the problem with Drop and some of the creature sweepers and 3cost enchantment s is that with Deathrite Shaman, Confidant and Goyf and Stoneforge is that I don't even want those guys to untap. I want them dead ASAP. As far as the sweeper, two Toxic Deluge in the board has been good so far.

I know you dont like Loam in the build, but I was considering running one Loam supported by one Entomb and a Crucible of Worlds instead of a second Loam, in order to protect against Surgical effects. What do you think?

Also, against Elves and Burn is it worth it to board in Sphere of Resistance or would that slow you down more since they are cheap and may recover mana fater than you?

It seems like as long as you are playing a set of Dark Rits it seems viable to play one or two 4 drops. The one copy of Night of Soul's Betrayal seems like a nice addition in main deck. Its just yet another answer we have against that terrible new merfolk, I'm looking at you True Name!

Four cc cards is ok as midgame drops if you run no DR but lots of lands. Note that at that time it need midgame things, like Jace. Also play only two-three of those at most to minimize the likelyhood of have them flood your starting hand.

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Originally Posted by beez

Hey Dolphy, How's it going? Are you still running the same G/B list? Any changes? I was thinking about replacing the 2 Drops of Honey in my board with 2 more innocent Blood to complement the two in the main board. To me the problem with Drop and some of the creature sweepers and 3cost enchantment s is that with Deathrite Shaman, Confidant and Goyf and Stoneforge is that I don't even want those guys to untap. I want them dead ASAP. As far as the sweeper, two Toxic Deluge in the board has been good so far.

I know you dont like Loam in the build, but I was considering running one Loam supported by one Entomb and a Crucible of Worlds instead of a second Loam, in order to protect against Surgical effects. What do you think?

Also, against Elves and Burn is it worth it to board in Sphere of Resistance or would that slow you down more since they are cheap and may recover mana faster than you?

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It's going well, thanks. My list is basically static these days, with sideboarding plans being the main thing I'm trying to hone. Mind you, I haven't been playing too much since the Seattle Open in October. I'm fairly attached to my Drops, but I also run 4 Ensnaring Bridge, and top-decking Drop of Honey while they're waiting to find their answer to Bridge is pretty sweet. Innocent Blood could work, too. I really like Toxic Deluge, and have been tempted to try it (definitely superior to Infest or Perish), but Bridges are so good to me, I don't see any immediate need. I'm finding creature match-ups a non-issue; lately I've just been dying to combo a lot. I don't like Loam chiefly because of its interaction with Nether Void. It's nice to diversify against extraction effects wherever possible, but good players will just extract Wasteland or Mishra's Factory and achieve pretty much the same effect. As such, I don't feel it's worth the stretch.

Sphere of Resistance is a tough call. It's certainly great against Burn, but unless you're already committed to running it for combo, I wouldn't worry about it. The Burn matchup is so bad (and so rare) it's almost not worth taking into consideration when building your board. Elves is a tricky one. While it's certainly good, if you make Sphere your turn two play, you slow down your Hymns, Smallpoxes, Lilianas, Abrupt Decays, etc. Against a deck like elves, I want my board and hand disruption to be as aggressive as possible. As much as it might be a good idea to slow them down, they can just start swinging for 3 or 4 a turn, while you struggle to overcome your self-inflicted Thalia. Then again, maybe I'm over-thinking it. In my experience, the Elves match-up usually comes down to a well-timed Smallpox.

Yeah, I mainly have Sphere of Resistance in for Storm and Omnitell, but was wondering if it were applicable against elves or burn if sinkholes are kept in. Otherwise I would just make it Thorn against combo so I could at least hardcast a Nether Spirit through it.

I honesty think that Chains of Mephistopheles is an auto-include in the sb. Anything that involves brainstorm or draw effect is instantly affected. It slowed the game down for the opponents and allows us the opportunity to minimize the amount of solutions they have through draw effects. I tried it against an opponent with show and sneak, where the opponent cast show and tell. I dropped the Chains of Mephistopheles and he dropped griselbrand. At that point in time he realized that he couldn't do much with the amount of creature removal we packed and the amount of hand disruption we own.

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Originally Posted by D0LPHY

It's going well, thanks. My list is basically static these days, with sideboarding plans being the main thing I'm trying to hone. Mind you, I haven't been playing too much since the Seattle Open in October. I'm fairly attached to my Drops, but I also run 4 Ensnaring Bridge, and top-decking Drop of Honey while they're waiting to find their answer to Bridge is pretty sweet. Innocent Blood could work, too. I really like Toxic Deluge, and have been tempted to try it (definitely superior to Infest or Perish), but Bridges are so good to me, I don't see any immediate need. I'm finding creature match-ups a non-issue; lately I've just been dying to combo a lot. I don't like Loam chiefly because of its interaction with Nether Void. It's nice to diversify against extraction effects wherever possible, but good players will just extract Wasteland or Mishra's Factory and achieve pretty much the same effect. As such, I don't feel it's worth the stretch.

Sphere of Resistance is a tough call. It's certainly great against Burn, but unless you're already committed to running it for combo, I wouldn't worry about it. The Burn matchup is so bad (and so rare) it's almost not worth taking into consideration when building your board. Elves is a tricky one. While it's certainly good, if you make Sphere your turn two play, you slow down your Hymns, Smallpoxes, Lilianas, Abrupt Decays, etc. Against a deck like elves, I want my board and hand disruption to be as aggressive as possible. As much as it might be a good idea to slow them down, they can just start swinging for 3 or 4 a turn, while you struggle to overcome your self-inflicted Thalia. Then again, maybe I'm over-thinking it. In my experience, the Elves match-up usually comes down to a well-timed Smallpox.

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I guess Drop of Honey is really good with Ensnaring Bridge. Too bad my deck isnt as geared as yours for running Bridge.

so, I've been considering getting into Legacy for a while, removal being pretty much my favorite thing ever (my heart belongs to doom blade), Pox has been one of the decks I've thought about the most. I've felt drawn to Control for a while but I've never really felt like a counterspell kind of person.

I have to ask: How new pilot friendly is Pox? Also how budget friendly? Those Lilianas and Chains worry my wallet

Liliana, wasteland and sinkhole are expensive cards of you at not planning to get fetch and SDT.

All those legends rare are optional and not necessity depending your build. (Eg. Nether void and rack is not the best compo :p )

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Originally Posted by gibbousm

so, I've been considering getting into Legacy for a while, removal being pretty much my favorite thing ever (my heart belongs to doom blade), Pox has been one of the decks I've thought about the most. I've felt drawn to Control for a while but I've never really felt like a counterspell kind of person.

I have to ask: How new pilot friendly is Pox? Also how budget friendly? Those Lilianas and Chains worry my wallet

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Originally Posted by gibbousm

so, I've been considering getting into Legacy for a while, removal being pretty much my favorite thing ever (my heart belongs to doom blade), Pox has been one of the decks I've thought about the most. I've felt drawn to Control for a while but I've never really felt like a counterspell kind of person.

I have to ask: How new pilot friendly is Pox? Also how budget friendly? Those Lilianas and Chains worry my wallet

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if you're concern is the budget then mono black is the way to go..

there are two paths you can choose from in mono black..the land destruction variant or the discard variant..

the land destruction variant is more expensive because it uses sinkholes, wastelands and sometimes nether voids as well..

the discard variant is cheaper but not necessarily weaker..

wastelands aren't as important in the discard variant as it is in the land destruction variant..so you can replace that with swamps or utility lands..

bottomless pit and necrogen mist are the most common budget replacements for liliana..

Only two ways? :-)

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Only two ways? :-)

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There's 4 last I checked when you read up on Pox itself. There is a creature HATE variant where all discard and land kill are replaced with removal. Extra Ratchet Bombs and Powder Kegs anyone? Wanna go back to old school with Nevinyyral's Disk? :cool: Some cards are in the form of creatures themselves like Shriekmaw (old fav) and Gatekeeper of Malakir. It's the weakest variant since not all legacy decks pack huge armies.

The 4th and best variant imo is the hybrid variant that hymns to tourach's your hand, sinkholes your land, and Innocent Bloods your threat. It's the ultimate topdeck killer. Discard variant won't save you from top decked solutions, but when that 2-3 mana spell you just top decked can't be casted, you realize how super strong it is. I noticed some people write this 'hybrid' version off as the LD version of Pox just cause of Sink/Waste but truth be told, when your 1 cmc spells get hymned/Duress/Inquisition away, this form of Pox becomes very fearsome. :eek:

At the end of the day, Pox is a prison deck. Blast the board clean, and fight your opponent with no cards, lands, or creatures. They have to fight under the same conditions, only YOUR deck was designed to combat this worst case scenario. We are the ones to survive the Zombie Apocalypse! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

At the end of the day, Pox is a prison deck. Blast the board clean, and fight your opponent with no cards, lands, or creatures. They have to fight under the same conditions, only YOUR deck was designed to combat this worst case scenario. We are the ones to survive the Zombie Apocalypse! :laugh:

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i can't agree with you more..pox seeks to put both players in a hungry game state with no creatures, no lands, and no hand..cursed scroll and liliana both increases our strength in the top deck war..

I posted this deck on mtg salvation, but can put it here too for completness sake.

4 Bloodghast
3 Tombstalker
3 Nihilith
4 gravecrawler
2 phyrexian metamorph
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Pox
2 reanimate
1 black sun's zenith
1 Sensei's divining top
1 Sickening Dreams
3 Darkblast
3 liliana of the veil

22 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

I posted this deck on mtg salvation, but can put it here too for completness sake.

4 Bloodghast
3 Tombstalker
3 Nihilith
4 gravecrawler
2 phyrexian metamorph
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Pox
2 reanimate
1 black sun's zenith
1 Sensei's divining top
1 Sickening Dreams
3 Darkblast
3 liliana of the veil

22 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage

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Not sure about those phyrexian metamorphs. They are pretty much 3 mana tarmogoyf/shaman/shardless/(something else pretty dork).

If I may suggest, replace them with liliana/dakmor salvage/pox/cursed scroll.

Yeah, they need testing. But they also copy artifacts: jitte, vital (nah...) batterskull SDT.
They even the field. Look forward to getting them!

New to the deck. Slowly getting the cards for the deck (will be a few months), but this is my current list:

/Spells
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Dark Ritual

/Permanents
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Haunted Plate Mail
4 Liliana of the Veil

/Land
4 Mishra's Factory
15 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

/Sideboard
3 Duress
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Extirpate
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Pithing Needle
2 Toxic Deluge

Feedback is appreciated.

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Originally Posted by astormbrewing

New to the deck. Slowly getting the cards for the deck (will be a few months), but this is my current list:

/Spells
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Dark Ritual

/Permanents
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Haunted Plate Mail
4 Liliana of the Veil

/Land
4 Mishra's Factory
15 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

/Sideboard
3 Duress
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Extirpate
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Pithing Needle
2 Toxic Deluge

Feedback is appreciated.

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good day astormbrewing..
your list looks really solid, i think it should do well..
i assume you don't have the 4th sinkhole..i suggest you start saving up for it because its really important to the deck..i'm not sold on the haunted platemail, i've used it before but i felt it was too clunky, but thats just me..many players swear by it..its not a bad card, i guess its just a matter of preference..if i were to try it again, i'd probably run 2 or maybe even a singleton of it..4 mana is too exhorbitant for a pox deck especially when you have 5 4cmc cards in the deck..in my humble opinion..

you might wanna add another urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in your deck in lieu of a swamp..there's a reason why majority of successful pox decks run 4..but i think 3 will do..

overall, i think your list looks fine..

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Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag

good day astormbrewing..
your list looks really solid, i think it should do well..
i assume you don't have the 4th sinkhole..i suggest you start saving up for it because its really important to the deck..i'm not sold on the haunted platemail, i've used it before but i felt it was too clunky, but thats just me..many players swear by it..its not a bad card, i guess its just a matter of preference..if i were to try it again, i'd probably run 2 or maybe even a singleton of it..4 mana is too exhorbitant for a pox deck especially when you have 5 4cmc cards in the deck..in my humble opinion..

you might wanna add another urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in your deck in lieu of a swamp..there's a reason why majority of successful pox decks run 4..but i think 3 will do..

overall, i think your list looks fine..

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I took out the 4th Sinkhole for a Crucible of Worlds, so I can repeatedly Wasteland my opponent. Having that option seemed more appealing than 1 more one-time LD.

I'm not sure how Haunted Plate Mail will play out, but I want to try it out.