Printable View
Chalice is likely our best card against Painter. It means they can't play their combo and they can't Vindicate our shit and the card also has a good role against other decks too.
Personally though, I would just not bother with Painter and sure up other matches.
It's almost as if Painter isn't a Deck to Beat... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Its actually funny how our mortal enemy feeds off the same decks we do and does it in mostly the same way. (Mana denial and control) Still does't mean I want to play against it.
It's even funnier for me, because they are the two decks I generally play when I want to win (and I've been on both sides of the matchup in the past). I was locked in on Lands for GP: Tacoma assuming the meta didn't shift. I'm not sure if Painter might be a better choice now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Well if I was wondering what the event would look like I would look at this and this as my starting guesses. I would expect Elves, BUG and RUG Delver, BUG control, Blade Control, Shardless and Miracles to be big hitters. If I was to spike that list I would take Dredge.
Storm will take a hit from the return of Delver, Grixis will fair badly with the bannings, Sneak and Show as well as DnT will make a comeback and I feel that People who play Omnishow will either show up with it anyway or try and switch to Sneak Attack. With that in mind I think I would put Karakas main.
Hi all!
Tomorrow, I play Lands in tournament for the first time, and I wanted to try a GRb list to have access to Confident post-board.
Since I'm quite new to this, I'm looking for some advice, especially on the SB (I expect the meta to be mostly Miracles/Shardless).
So here is the list.
Pure mana sources
* 1 Forest
* 1 Bayou
* 2 Taiga
* 3 Fetches
* 4 Mox Diamond
Combo
* 4 Thespian Stage
* 3 Dark Depths
Mana denial
* 4 Wasteland
* 4 Rishadan Port
* 1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Creatures handling
* 4 Groves of the Burnwillows
* 4 Punishing fire
* 1 Karakas
* 3 Maze of Ith
* 1 Glacial Chasm
Tutors & draw
* 4 Gamble
* 4 Crop Rotation
* 1 Tranquil Thicket
* 1 Horizon Canopy
Lands stuff
* 4 Life from the Loam
* 4 Exploration
* 2 Manabond
SB
* 1 Dark Depths
* 1 Chalice of the Void
* 3 Krosan Grip
* 1 Bojuka Bog
* 2 Choke
* 3 Dark Confident
* 3 Trinisphere
* 1 Molten Vortex
A few remarks:
* I tried to cut Fetch #3 to Ghost Quarter, but I'm not convinced by this choice. With 3 colors and since I expect some Miracles, I will certainly face some Blood Moons and I need to touch my forest really fast.
* I read the whole topic, but I can't remember finding a discussion on Urborg. Since I splash black, it was a possibility. However, I think that the card is in fact quite bad for 2 reasons:
xxx*x1°) We don't need that much mana.
xxx*x2°) It gives the opponent's fetches the possibility to make B mana, which is contrary to the mana denial plan of the deck. Also, it happens sometimes that the opponent is 21 life (Grove), and him fetching is often the key to victory if you can make a Marit Lage in the next turn.
Do you guys feel the same about the card?
* Horizon Canopy should be a second Thicket, but I have only one (a bit ironic when you see the price of the deck)
* I chose Molten Vortex over Seismic Assault due to the 3 color build, although I think Assault would be slightly better in the expected meta.
Thanks for your help!
RUG Lands can also mill the opponent by recurring Mox/EE with Academy Ruins. If I want more bite with that build I run Creeping Tar Pit - it's far more useful to the standard game-plan than Vise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Probably sound. But SB answers to Moon itself might make sense. Sneak Show could be on the rise, and that's a winnable match. Of course Miracles sometimes runs it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I don't think I'd bring these in outside the context of a Bloodmoon match. It's largely a question of there being enough Moons in your meta to justify a slot for these at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djehuti
So I played FNM last night, of course. My local metagame has seemingly gone back in time to esper stoneblade. I had three real matches (the first opponent, on Tezzerator, was flooded both games) and in each game it came down to True-Name Nemesis and Jace. I had forgotten how fucking miserable TNN is to deal with.
In one game I ran my opponent out of lands by recurring Wasteland and Ghost Quarter with Exploration in play and wrathed him with Tabernacle (I made Marit Lage on turn 3-his turn- of extra time to finish it in just enough time).
In another game I also ran my opponent out of lands by recurring ghost quarter.
In the final match his build was more of 4 colour delver deck with Wastelands of his own. Game 1 I was tilted because some shitlord next to me was singing in the quality of a dying cat and wouldn't stop until I snapped at him. Fuck head. Lost game 1, crushed game 2. Game 3 he had the old double Relic of Progenitus with Deathrite and FoW for Punishing Fire. The game went on for a while and came down to him playing Winter Orb after True-Name Nemesis. I was drawing very slim since I had exiled two of my Dark Depths and couldn't find anything relevant in time.
The lessons learned from matches around me: Death and Taxes is still present, Sneak Attack decks have come back, and the guy who always plays Painter showed up.
From my own matches: Ghost Quarter is as good as ever. I kind of want REBs in the sideboard instead of clunky Spheres, especially if 3/4 of the time I'll be facing TNN and heavy counterspells. I want to be on the Boil plan, too. Choke is great but it can be disenchanted.
After next week I want to test the new black edict land to see if it's good enough. In a world of Sneak Attacks and TNNs I want to edict people.
adding that to my main right now, for tonight's legacy...Quote:
Originally Posted by barcode
not so much the true-name but that damn nimble mongoose!
How will you adapt the mana? Single Bayou?
Layalouhamesh, good write up on Urborg. I'm impressed. Welcome too the thread.
Swap a Taiga for a Bayou and maybe see if I can squeeze an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. I already play main deck Bojuka Bog so I have that as another black source...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
How useful will a main Bog be now that Dig is gone? What other targets have you in mind?
It's a good hedge for the mirror (we are a DTB), helps to reset RUG delver's Threshold, great for Reanimator and Dredge. What other cards could occupy that slot? A Blighted Fen, a third Thicket, the fourth Crop Rotation (but with one less bullet), the fourth Depths (not a big fan of too many non-mana lands), a Riftstone Portal, maybe a Mishra's Factory or Raging Ravine even...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I always cut Bog vs the Dig decks since they can just Dig in response to the Bog trigger.
I'm currently running it in the board in favor of Ghostquarter. If rug Delver gets big again the ghost quarter will be very useful in my opinion. Also if rug Delver gets big then we have less to worry about with reanimator. While the bog does reset goose I don't think that is worth the slot when we can have a 5th wasteland. Also it's insane in the combo MU because of the tendency of people to trot out basics first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Made Top 8 at the SCG Legacy IQ in Indy. Hoping to have a write up on my matches and list soon!
You guys all make me really jelly I don't live in the states, but it's great to hear you all do so well. Got to love this deck.
Congratulations.
5th at SCG Legacy IQ: Indianapolis
Played at the Legacy IQ in Indy this weekend. This is my first top 8 in an SCG event, and really the only ever big showing I've had in Legacy thus far. Normally at SCG events I play Painter, but I made the swap over to Lands. This is my first time playing R/G lands in a big event. I was always nervous playing the deck in a event like this due to time constraints. But most of my matches didn't even come close to time, which make me really happy that I played the deck well and quickly. My notes aren't the greatest, and I don't remember too much on what I boarded in and out.
My Decklist
Top 32
Round 1 WIN 2 - 0 Esper Stoneblade
Game 1: I start with some Mox, Land Loam action, and start building up lands. I have Stage + Depths online, but A bunch of lingering Souls tokens are preventing me from going off. I crop rotation for Tabernacle to really slow him down. He also lands a Jace, which will just bounce the token. On my turn, He has 2 islands open and nothing else, I have a Manabond, and I have a suspicion that he has Counterspell, so I port one of his islands, move to combat, and Play the Manabond, and it resolves. I cast Loam, and grab 3 lands. End Turn I drop 5 lands 2 which are Groves and I have Punishing Fire in the grave. I have enough to really start wrecking the tokens. He reveals Counterspell, as his only card in hand and scoops. Some damn good instincts right there.
Game 2: He starts with Sea + Pithing Needle naming Stage. Cool. I play a fetch with exploration and waste his Sea. He fetches a basic and brainstorms, passes turn. I get ghost quarter and start wrecking his manabase with Loam recursion. Eventually he is out of basics (and isn't drawing lands). I draw Grip and get rid of the needle and make our favorite 20/20.
Round 2 LOSS 0 - 2 Miracles
Game 1: I build up a decent amount of lands, into a quick 20/20. Through all this he gets Counterbalance and Top online. He swords the token putting me at 38. He gets an Entreat making 1 angel. I top deck an Maze of Ith. Sweet! He then plays Jace. Not Sweet. He has Counterbalance and Top and an active Jace, and I have no gas, so I scoop hoping for a better Game 2.
Game 2: I build up a solid amount of lands with Manabond. He does the usual miracles durdle, into a Blood Moon. Crap. He also plays a RiP as well. I do have K.Grip in hand, but was a dummy and didn't fetch for the forest. I eventually draw the forest, and K.Grip the Moon. I play Choke and its met by Force. On His turn He plays another Moon. I can't do anything about the multiple hate enchantments (RIP and Moon) and Counterbalance and Top and he drops Jace and I scoop. Stupid Miracles! His deck was foiled out, so at least it was pleasant to look at.
Round 3 WIN 2 - 0 Burn
Game 1: Not much to say here. Turn 1 he plays Goblin Guide. And I get a Forest. Nice! I play Exploration, and play a Grove. He does some burn stuff, passes. I play Depths and Stage and pass. He swings with guide again, I grab a land off the trigger, make the token and block. Then I swing in my turn for the kill.
Game 2: Another quick game. He opens with guide, and I get a land off of it. I play Taiga, and Mox Diamond and Exploration. I play stage as my extra land and Pass. He does some burn stuff. I play 2 ports on my land and during his combat I crop rotation and get depths and make the 20/20 and swing on my turn. Since there is like 35min left in the round I go and get some grub. Sweet.
Round 4 WIN 2 - 0 Mono Black Pox (Legends Enchantments.dec)
Game 1: Super fast hand of Land, Exploration, Mox, Stage. He does Mishras Factory+ Cursed Scroll Go. I play waste and Grove. He plays another factory and swings, I crop rotation into depths, make the token and block his Factory. And swing on my turn for the kill.
Game 2: Game to is very rough for him, as he has to mulligan to 5. I also have a similar hand as last game with an explosive combo. This really wasn't really a game as I had an explosive start with exploration and just made a quick 20/20 with crop rotation. with only seeing a cursed scroll from him. He shows me his deck and he has all sorts of cool Legends enchantments and winter factories. Dope stuff, wish he could have wrecked miracles.
Round 5 WIN 2 - 1 Shardless BUG
Game 1: I build up a nice amount of lands eventually having stage and depths while surviving some Goyf beats (haven't seen ol' goofy for awhile!) He lands a strix, but I rip a punishing fire to shoot the Strix. I take another hit from Goyf. One my turn I put a grove down so if I need to kill a strix with Punishing fire recursion, but I am able to just make the token, block the Goyf and smash smash smash….
Game 2: I have an explosive exploration hand, but has a needle on stage. I also get the depths, but can never find a K Grip. I die to Goyf and double Deathrite. He even kills his own needle to get an artifact in the yard for exact damage.
Game 3: I Keep him off of lands early with exploration double waste. But starts grabbing basics with fetches. I have a stage and am trying to draw into a depths. He wastes my stage, however I'm able to loam into a depths and grab stage and depths with loam. He is beating me down with goyf but I make the token to block the Goyf. If I didn't have loam, this would be risky because he could make me sacrifice the token to Lilana and without loam he would just Deathrite me to death.
Round 6 WIN 2 - 1 Grixis Delver
This actually sucks, because I am playing one of my friends that I rode with to the event. But we must do battle!
Game 1: I have a great opening hand. Fetch for taiga, play Diamond play exploration play port I also have crop rotation in my hand. Pass. He plays U.Sea into brainstorm and pass. I draw stage and end of his turn crop rotation into depths and make a 20/20.
Game 2: I don't remember much of this game, as he had a double waste and he was able to counter and early exploration. I die to Pyromancer and the tokens. No good draws and he had some good answers.
Game 3: Pretty good game, he gets going really fast out of the gate with delver and Deathrite, but I have punishing fire and grave and wreck is dudes and eventually draw into Depths and Stage.
Round 7 WIN 2 - 1 Burn
Fun Fact: I have a ton of experience against burn with lands. 2 of my good friends play it so I have a ton of practice.
Game 1: Goblin guide gets me a land, I play exploration online drop a stage. Next turn a stage an another land. He doesn't have enough burn to kill me so the 20/20 gets there.
Game 2: He blows me up with a ton of burn. I have depths and stage, but no exploration to get it out super fast. He swings on his turn and I am able to make the 20/20 to block his Goblin guide, but he has an ediolon that connects and 2 chain lightnings and a fire blast gets there. Gross.
Game 3: Not much of a game here, he plays some burn and on the end of his turn I tap a mox, grove and port for 3mana use 1 from the mox to crop rotation the port out grabbing stage to make the 20/20.
Round 8 ID (Eureka Tell)
Good thing we drew. This deck looked silly.
Top 8 0-2 LOSS Sneak N Show
Game 1: I actually don't know what he is on, but I keep a solid 3 land hand with grove being one of the lands and 2 P.Fires. Sadly he is on sneak n show, and my fires don't do much.
Game 2: Now that i know he's on sneak and show, I use a gamble for a Karakas, out of 6 cards he nabs the Karakas. I guess thats why the card is called gamble. I end up getting wrecked by Spaghetti man and my top 8 is cut short. This guy eventually ended up in the finals. and had I known what he was on I wouldn't have kept the hand I did game 1.
I get $200 in cash, a cool playmat, a top 8 pin and some excellent time with friends.
MVP of the day was Crop Rotation: So many times this card just sealed the deal and was very relevant for finding what I needed in crunch situations.
Random Notes
• My board is probably going to change a bit, as I want to add a 4th depths to the side for faster Combo kills. Going for a fast kill is really important against Miracles.
• I will probably cut the 2 Sphere of Resistance for 1 Trinisphere and the 4th Depths. I probably hate the 2 Sphere of Resistance because I never really board it in ever and I just wanna play Trinisphere.
• I tried Boil in the side, but never really wanted it in any matchup other than miracles. Even choke wasn't great against miracles. I would rather just play Flashfires and keep them off white but even that seems bad. I really just want to cast one of those cards from a Boseiju, straight from magical Christmas land. Miracles is just a tough matchup in general.
• I think with the return of Sneak n Show having a 2nd (Or even a 3rd) Karakas in the board doesn't seem like a bad idea. I think this seems like a better option to fight Sneak n Show than a black splash with Blighted Fen (The new BFZ Edict Land)
• Ghost Quarter was good for me. Was very relevant in the Esper game.
• I didn't miss Bog maindeck at all. It was good in the side and brought it against Shardless to shrink goyfs and remove deathrite stuff (even though most of the time they hit you with it, but limiting their options is important.) But I feel its fine in the side.
• Miracles is still super annoying.
I do plan to play this at the Open in St.Louis, so I will tweak the sideboard as I test a bit more. I love this deck and am very happy with the way it performed. Thanks for reading!
Congrats on the result Unsunghero!Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsungHero
As Omnitell's gone now, Pithing Needle seems a good option for the side again, especially versus Sneakshow and Miracles (more than trinisphere?).
Congratulations, unsung hero. Just out of curiosity, was your pox opponent a guy with long dark hair by the name of kurtis?
Also, i encourage you to keep trying choke. I can't overstate how good i think the card is.
Yup His name was Kurtis. The deck he had was super sweet. Ill probably keep choke in, however I never feel that I ever needed it against decks like delver and shardless though because of how good our mana denial is. Pithing Needle seems like a soild choice for SnT and is good in a variety of match ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigapatrick