Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iostream
I have played the colorless version of this deck to death and achieved moderate success with it. From my perspective, I basically don't know why people who are interested in the colored lists are trying to splash so heavily. For instance, why Containment Priest? We have a lot of fine colorless graveyard hate options, Sneak/Show is already pretty favorable, especially if you're packing a significant amount of Endbringer, and Aether Vial is not the reason why D+T and Maverick are hard matchups. Similarly, Ensnaring Bridge and Moat are just as well handled by World Breaker as they are by Krosan Grip (I realize Blood Moon isn't handled as cleanly because of the 7 CMC issue, but let's be honest: Blood Moon is not a common card in the format right now).
The colorless version has completely perfect mana, and you really don't want to mess that up if you can help it. The point of splashing should be to fix some weaknesses of the colorless list, ideally in a way that doesn't introduce new problems (i.e. horrible mana! inability to cast one's own sideboard!). So what are the colorless Eldrazi deck's weaknesses? The three biggest ones that clearly need to be addressed are: problematic utility lands (Maze of Ith, Thespian's Stage, Rishadan Port, opposing Wastelands), Stoneforge Mystic, and Tarmogoyf. Eldrazi Displacer and World Breaker have clear applications in those situations. Aside from those two, no other colored card that has been suggested seems to have anything to do with those problems at all.
If the only cards you really want to splash are Eldrazi Displacer and World Breaker, then playing Brushlands and Corrupted Crossroads is the way to go. It will give you many easy sources of mana to cast all your cards, Eldrazi and non-Eldrazi, alongside Cavern of Souls, Karakas, and Elvish Spirit Guide. The question is then: is this better than Wasteland and Mishra's Factory? Mishra's Factory is just a nice-to-have, I'll grant that. But Wasteland plays an extremely key role, since it's one of the few precious forms of maindeck counterplay you have against Rishadan Port, Maze of Ith, Thespian's Stage, etc. If you cut those to enable Displacer and World Breaker, are you really fixing that problem?
One last thing I want to mention is that Matter Reshaper sucks compared to all the other Eldrazi, but it's still pretty good versus the decks that don't have StP. It usually costs them a card, and the fact that it's yet another way to neutralize Liliana is actually somewhat relevant (since the Liliana decks are among our worst matchups). I think the card is underrated, and I've come around to it despite being a hater for a long time.
Thanks for the feedback. Discussing the matter is definitely helpful.
About Priest: You're forgetting about the combo with Displacer, which is relevant in various creature-based match-ups. Aside from Dredge, Reanimator and Sneak/Show, Priest also slows down Elves and other random things like GSZ. It's an high-impact card in way more match-ups and it isn't just another GY hate card. I don't think at this point that cutting it is a good decision.
As for Vial and D&T, it is a critical card because it allows them to deploy their creatures while they use their mana to deny your's. I don't know if Containment Priest is good in this match-up due to the interaction with Flickerwisp.
Krosan Grip is a cheap solution compared to World Breaker's 7 mana cost. Aside from handling Moat, Bridge and Moon, it can also handle Equipment and random stuff like SDT. What is debatable is the number of cards to get the answers consistently enough when you need them and at a mana cost where you can reliable cast them before it's too late.
I disagree that SFM, Goyf and Lands are the only big problems - more people start to run stuff like MD Bridge, Moat or Moon effects to wreck us. The longer Eldrazi is in the meta, the more people will adapt. The splash manabase could probably still run a couple of Wastelands (see suggestion above for including 3 copies). While Factory is nice to have, I believe that the splash covers more weaknesses compared to it.
Given your feedback, running some copies of Pithing Needle (I'm thinking about two) might be worth it despite the anti-synergy with CotV. They handle problematic lands, Planeswalkers, SDT, etc. - what are the experiences other people have made with it? Revoker doesn't stop the "bad" lands, though it can block Storm's mana artifacts.
EDIT:
What's people's experience with Bearer of Silence? Has anybody seriously tested it yet? After getting crushed against Bant Something (either Blade or Retreat) by KotR in game 1 and G2 by KotR + TNN while Dismember was sitting in my hand dead, I'm reconsidering my options. I cut my colored non-Eldrazi cards and replace Brushland with Corrupted Crossroads (which are functionally 100% exactly the same for Eldrazi) to throw in some SB Bearers to deal with such big creatures, including the mirror. Between Crossroads, Mox, Cavern and maybe Urborg (I would rather add Wastelands to the manabase before that, though), casting it should be very doable - even despite the anti-synergy of its cost with Temple/Eye. But I'm not eager about abandoning Containment Priest.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
EDIT:
What's people's experience with
Bearer of Silence? Has anybody seriously tested it yet? After getting crushed against Bant Something (either Blade or Retreat) by KotR in game 1 and G2 by KotR + TNN while Dismember was sitting in my hand dead, I'm reconsidering my options. I cut my colored non-Eldrazi cards and replace Brushland with
Corrupted Crossroads (which are functionally 100% exactly the same for Eldrazi) to throw in some SB Bearers to deal with such big creatures, including the mirror. Between Crossroads, Mox, Cavern and
maybe Urborg (I would rather add Wastelands to the manabase before that, though), casting it should be very doable - even despite the anti-synergy of its cost with Temple/Eye. But I'm not eager about abandoning Containment Priest.
Haven't tested it, but I did see this list on MTGTop8:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=11813&d=267534&f=LE
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Bearer is cute, but again, remember that you need 10+ colored source to play it and you can't pay for the on-cast trigger with temple cause it's only for activated abilities (another example: tabernacle is a triggered ability of your eldrazis so you can't pay for it with temple :2: )
10+ for black is easier, with 3 urborg and possibly 3 petals.
On another note, i've been playing my latest list with no changes, and i can't seems to optimize it further. I always find that i'd never want different cards that the ones i draw, or at least i find that different cards wouldn't make a difference more than my own cards.
On the other hand, i still have lots of doubts about my SB, and i think it's the part that need the most work. Some grave removal is necessary. I'm liking the ravenous traps as they kill combo tricks on T0, and differently from Leyline it isn't as bad as a topdeck, and opponent going off T0 won't play around it, unlike Leyline where he see that you have that in play. It's a bit tricky against reanimator (work only if they used a fetch to entomb for example), and not as good vs dredge obviously. Needle and or Karakas are decent vs Lands and Show and Tell, with needle being probably better in a vacuum because it's immune to wasteland. I'm playing 2 in the SB. Ratchet bomb is so slow but it's our only out to a lot of things, and can double as removal for delvers.
EDIT: my favourite trick up to now is probably having a factory untapped, pyromancer attacking me, pitch spirit guide block and pump to kill. SSG so good.
EDIT2: another thing to remember is if you play duplicant in your SB, to stack the trigger from mimic first so you get a huge mimic instead of a 2/4.
EDIT3: another problem that ravenous has compared to leyline is that it can be discarded and hurkylled whereas leyline can't, which make it a worse card vs combo.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gheizen64
Bearer is cute, but again, remember that you need 10+ colored source to play it and you can't pay for the on-cast trigger with temple cause it's only for activated abilities (another example: tabernacle is a triggered ability of your eldrazis so you can't pay for it with temple :2: )
10+ for black is easier, with 3 urborg and possibly 3 petals.
On another note, i've been playing my latest list with no changes, and i can't seems to optimize it further. I always find that i'd never want different cards that the ones i draw, or at least i find that different cards wouldn't make a difference more than my own cards.
On the other hand, i still have lots of doubts about my SB, and i think it's the part that need the most work. Some grave removal is necessary. I'm liking the ravenous traps as they kill combo tricks on T0, and differently from Leyline it isn't as bad as a topdeck, and opponent going off T0 won't play around it, unlike Leyline where he see that you have that in play. It's a bit tricky against reanimator (work only if they used a fetch to entomb for example), and not as good vs dredge obviously. Needle and or Karakas are decent vs Lands and Show and Tell, with needle being probably better in a vacuum because it's immune to wasteland. I'm playing 2 in the SB. Ratchet bomb is so slow but it's our only out to a lot of things, and can double as removal for delvers.
EDIT: my favourite trick up to now is probably having a factory untapped, pyromancer attacking me, pitch spirit guide block and pump to kill. SSG so good.
EDIT2: another thing to remember is if you play duplicant in your SB, to stack the trigger from mimic first so you get a huge mimic instead of a 2/4.
EDIT3: another problem that ravenous has compared to leyline is that it can be discarded and hurkylled whereas leyline can't, which make it a worse card vs combo.
How has Duplicant been for you, considering it's a 6 mana non-Eldrazi? Seems like a hefty price. I'm interested since it's another card that plays well with Displacer.
One of the beauties of splashing heavily white is that you can run RiP, which is the all aroundbest GY hate that also combats Goyf, KotR and the likes. Other hate cards feel kinda unsatisfying after using it since they aren't catch-all like RiP. Since I'm currently already experimenting with one-shot accel (ESG), why not go balls deep into white to support the "proper" SB cards via Lotus Petal instead? I'm thinking about something like this:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
2 Eye of Ugin
3 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Brushland
2 Karakas
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Conduit of Ruin
2 World Breaker
2 Mox Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Dismember
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
2 All Is Dust
3 Rest in Peace
3 Containment Priest
1 Karakas
1 Dismember
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
or
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
That's white 11 sources (12 with SB Karakas) - 5 which are playable on T1 (hello there, T1 RiP!)
I still want to find room for 2 Pithing Needles in the SB. The SFM SB package is just an idea because many of our problems are creature-based - and SFM+equipment trumps creature-based strategies for the most part. Those 5 slots could be filled with anything else, though.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Holly
Painlands
Those are just here to fix your mana in case you splash some color and can’t use better lands for those colors.
Specially worth mentioning
Horizon Canopy as it not only fixes 2 colors
while still providing colorless. It’s also helping smoothing out your draws in case you’re getting flooded.
Excellent work Holly - this will be in the DTB section before long I think. (MTG Top8 has it as 9% of the meta, Goldfish has it at 9.86% -
10.92% if you count the version with a :w: splash for Displacer).
As a small nit-pick, Horizon Canopy cannot produce :<>: :(
Otherwise this is fantastic!
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
The single duplicant in my sb always came in vs SnT and often vs things like more midrangey aggro builds running anglers and goyfs, and sometimes even in the mirror. 6 is a bit steep but it come in MUs where you either cheat it in or the board often end in stalls with huge creatures on both sides which can't attack . Vs SnT i had one game where i revokered griselbrand and then duplicant-'d it after some turns of stall which also gave me lethal with Mimic and was pretty nice.
It come out extremely rarely but it seems to do what it need to. It still has to be seen if it's better than Ashen Rider (which remove Omniscience) or if the added utility vs midrangey decks and even the mirror potentially is more significant. I tend toward the latter for now.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
This belongs in the realm of speculation, but I expect one big eldrazi to be printed (possibly a black eldrazi) given dark depths produces a black token and marit lage is probably emrakul in disguise. If this is true, and if the card is castable (kozilk and ulamog got a CC discount too), Urborg becomes even more essential.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gheizen64
Bearer is cute, but again, remember that you need 10+ colored source to play it and you can't pay for the on-cast trigger with temple cause it's only for activated abilities (another example: tabernacle is a triggered ability of your eldrazis so you can't pay for it with temple :2: )
10+ for black is easier, with 3 urborg and possibly 3 petals.
On another note, i've been playing my latest list with no changes, and i can't seems to optimize it further. I always find that i'd never want different cards that the ones i draw, or at least i find that different cards wouldn't make a difference more than my own cards.
On the other hand, i still have lots of doubts about my SB, and i think it's the part that need the most work. Some grave removal is necessary. I'm liking the ravenous traps as they kill combo tricks on T0, and differently from Leyline it isn't as bad as a topdeck, and opponent going off T0 won't play around it, unlike Leyline where he see that you have that in play. It's a bit tricky against reanimator (work only if they used a fetch to entomb for example), and not as good vs dredge obviously. Needle and or Karakas are decent vs Lands and Show and Tell, with needle being probably better in a vacuum because it's immune to wasteland. I'm playing 2 in the SB. Ratchet bomb is so slow but it's our only out to a lot of things, and can double as removal for delvers.
EDIT: my favourite trick up to now is probably having a factory untapped, pyromancer attacking me, pitch spirit guide block and pump to kill. SSG so good.
EDIT2: another thing to remember is if you play duplicant in your SB, to stack the trigger from mimic first so you get a huge mimic instead of a 2/4.
EDIT3: another problem that ravenous has compared to leyline is that it can be discarded and hurkylled whereas leyline can't, which make it a worse card vs combo.
Is your list the same as you posted a few pages back? Are you still using 2 cities/2 eyes in your manabase with 4 mishra's?
The mishra's look like a good inclusion but are they better when running equipment? Are you still liking the SSGs as a 4 of?
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
With the Legacy Challenge coming up on MTGO tomorrow, I wish I had more time to hammer out my new, more white-heavy list posted above (aside from finding somebody who could lend me 3 Wastelands/Petals).
I also just noticed a rather nifty interaction between Sword of Feast and Famine and Eye of Ugin: You can tap your mana during combat, use the untap trigger, tap for more mana still during combat and then activate Eye. That lowers the threshold of 7 actual mana to 4 land mana (or 3 land mana + a nonland source) - something far more doable. Not sure how often that would actually come up, but it's something to keep in mind.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
With the Legacy Challenge coming up on MTGO tomorrow, I wish I had more time to hammer out my new, more white-heavy list posted above (aside from finding somebody who could lend me 3 Wastelands/Petals).
I also just noticed a rather nifty interaction between
Sword of Feast and Famine and Eye of Ugin: You can tap your mana during combat, use the untap trigger, tap for more mana still during combat and then activate Eye. That lowers the threshold of 7 actual mana to 4 land mana (or 3 land mana + a nonland source) - something far more doable. Not sure how often that would actually come up, but it's something to keep in mind.
feast and famine is also pretty cool with mishra's factories.
Hi, please use proper capitalization. Not trying to be a dick, it's just site rules. Thanks. -zilla
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Not entirely Eldrazi but if anyone wants to read a Colorless Stompy LGS FNM report is here
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I think that is the natural "future" of this deck.
Pure Eldrazi has a lot of weaknesses. Card disadvantage, no permanent control, no stack control, no hand protection.
MUD has some cards to keep those problems in check like Coercitive Portal, Ugin, Bottled Cloister (very good in the mirror, also).
The point is to drop the "Eldrazi-mana" to get instead the 12 post mana.
It's also much cheaper by the way. You lose some explosive turn 1 Mimic, Turn 2 TKS, but you gain so much more in terms of reliability.
Ugin can come in turn 3-4 and you become a Mid range deck from there.
Also, Karn Liberated is a card
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RhoxWarMonk
Is your list the same as you posted a few pages back? Are you still using 2 cities/2 eyes in your manabase with 4 mishra's?
The mishra's look like a good inclusion but are they better when running equipment? Are you still liking the SSGs as a 4 of?
Yes to both.
Mishra as a 4-of allow you to never overextend vs miracles and give you some nice tricks vs pyromancers for example (use SSG to activate factory with no untapped mana and kill pyromancer). I found them really useful in a lot of MUs, shortening our clock significantly as you dump your hand.
SSG also make the MU vs 4c Delver bearable by itself being a counter to dazes and allowing us more consistent T1 chalices and thorns that don't kill your mana base afterward (aka City of traitors).
Mishra are probably better on the back of equipments, but Jitte is really, really slow in this deck. In all of my games, i equipped jitte on mishra maybe once. I still think it's better than the second dismember vs delvers and D&T though so i'm not removing it from the deck.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Miracle plays Mentor for chump block. Factories do nothing to him.
Miracle fears Trinisphere and Chalice, more than anything else.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
Miracle plays Mentor for chump block. Factories do nothing to him.
Miracle fears Trinisphere and Chalice, more than anything else.
For what it's worth, i've played more often vs Batterskull than Mentor in miracles. Card seems heavily underplayed, and it's pretty soft to all the rest of the deck basically.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
I think that is the natural "future" of this deck...
...The point is to drop the "Eldrazi-mana" to get instead the 12 post mana.
I'd be surprised. Those extra Sol Lands go a long way towads fixing the consistency issues in traditional MUD lists. Having to run all those mana rocks makes for a lot of all-mana-no-business situations.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crimhead
I'd be surprised. Those extra Sol Lands go a long way towads fixing the consistency issues in traditional MUD lists. Having to run all those mana rocks makes for a lot of all-mana-no-business situations.
Elves has the same problem. The deck has a half dozen slots more than Storm dedicated to mana instead of disruption, and it stings. You just end up vomiting unimpressive boards on the table. Shittons of mana and nothing broken to do with it.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
The point is to drop the "Eldrazi-mana" to get instead the 12 post mana.
It's also much cheaper by the way. You lose some explosive turn 1 Mimic, Turn 2 TKS, but you gain so much more in terms of reliability.
That somewhat undermines the point of playing Eldrazi as a deck. The reason to play these creatures is because you are able to drop them fast with a level of consistency that a deck like MUD does not have. A lot of that consistency comes from the overwhelming mana advantage created by the extra Sol lands in this deck. Cut them and you might as well just go back to MUD.
Also, 12 Post is not the answer. I played with MUD post for a while and I did not enjoy it. Mostly because it is a mana Base of two halves. You either get the 12 post mana and your gold, or you get the Sol lands and your gold, but if you get a mix of one and the other your in for a rough time. You have issues when the only thing you can copy is a Tomb, piling on the damage. It hurts when you look at a Sol opening, then draw Vesuva and Glimmerpost but no Cloudpost. It hurts when you draw the wrong half of your Mana base or you draw the right parts too late. I would trade inconsistent overwhelming power for consistent restrained power almost every time. Because while sometimes you will do crazy things with overwhelming power, most of the time you are just better off toning down that dial and just making sure the road is smooth.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
in a deck were you can play Conduit of Ruin/Eye of Ugin into Emrakul you have mana that you complain of?
if you get to 13 mana quickly, cast immediatly your Emrakul through Conduit or Eye of Ugin.
I'd go for the 12 post mana base with 4 Conduit of Ruin and no Eyes
You lose explosivity, yes. Be bigger on the lock cards. 4 CotV 3 Thorns 3 Trinisphere MD
you can chain a turn 3 Conduit into a turn 4 Kozilek 1.0 or Ulamog 2.0..
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
in a deck were you can play Conduit of Ruin/Eye of Ugin into Emrakul you have mana that you complain of?
if you get to 13 mana quickly, cast immediatly your Emrakul through Conduit or Eye of Ugin.
I'd go for the 12 post mana base with 4 Conduit of Ruin and no Eyes
You lose explosivity, yes. Be bigger on the lock cards. 4 CotV 3 Thorns 3 Trinisphere MD
you can chain a turn 3 Conduit into a turn 4 Kozilek 1.0 or Ulamog 2.0..
That sounds like it's own deck. If it is going to be a thing, it would be something that exists alongside this build not replacing it.
