[Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

My experience with landstill is that it all depends on the list they're playing, and the amount of boardcontrol they play/see. For example, if they're playing a basic UWb version, then your main concerns are 3-4 vindicates, 2 engineered explosives and maybe a wishtarget. I figure that shouldn't be too much of a problem. On the other hand, when they're playing the 4cc build with more manlands, deeds and academy ruins/explosives-lock, then I think we'd be thoroughly screwed.

But tbh, the matchups where time becomes a mayor issue (for me, at least) are counterbalance. You're both wasting horrible amounts of time topping and digging for stuff, and although you have plenty of tools to stop them from killing you, getting the win yourself is terribly difficult. So far, the only matches I've won in a tournament setting where those where
a) My opponent drew blanks for 2 games straight
b) I got them with scepter-chant game 1 and luck out game 2
c) Sacred Mesa/Dragon beats game 1 and drawing g2.

Lmk how the "combo-from the side"-idea works out. I'm sceptic, but curious nonetheless.

Btw, has anyone tested the Lich matchup yet? It should be terrible for us (we're talking lich here, ppl. LICH, for crying out loud), but an estimate would be nice, just to see if it's worse than solidarity.

Grtz

I feel that it wont really change anything siting in the painter-grindstone combo. They are already siding in a lot of artifact hate. They will think you just didn't draw the combo if anything. There are other things we need to be running in our boards.

You would most likely be better off having the painter grindstone combo in the main and siding it out.

I agree with Schulz on the sideboard choices actually.

I guess the Token Wincon vs. Combo Wincon is a meta call thing. Although I will still try to thoroughly test the combo win-con. I guess I am just playing it wrong.

I know this is doubleposting but I needed to bump it to get y'all Quinn pilot's attentions.

I started to maindeck the combo again... I am going to keep it this way and pilot it that way. Maybe I just need practice with it.

Here is my current list:

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18 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Scrying Sheets

2 Eternal Dragon

4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Grindstone
2 Isochron Scepter
2 Painter's Servant
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus

2 Humility
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Runed Halo
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Story Circle

4 Orim's Chant
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Abeyance

2 Day of Judgement
1 Wrath of God

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I have been testing that list plus a Kor Haven. I am wondering if I should just go 61 on my main or remove 1. I have been contemplating on removing Relic of Progenitus from the main since my original list did not include it but recently, It has helped me a lot from keeping Goyfs in check to not to autolose to Dredge 1st game (Thank you for enlightening me with the Dredge thing).

Before I had Relic on main, I had O-ring on that spot. I actually want to keep my O-ring count on 3. Is that overkill since I am already running StPs and Halos? I did find O-rings helpful enough times.

With my current sideboard, Should I just keep running this deck with 61 main or should I remove 1 card to accomodate Kor Haven?

Here is my current sideboard:

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2 Ghostly Prison
2 Pulse of the Fields
2 Ray of Distortion
2 Rule of Law
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Aura of Silence
1 Karmic Justice
1 Meekstone
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Runed Halo

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On my sideboard, should I change Halo with O-ring? Maybe additional Meekstones or Needles?

I am planning to bring this deck on a small tournament next week. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Well, you're playing basically the same list as I am, so it shouldn't surprise you that I thoroughly approve :). So I guess someone else with a little less bias should comment. The only think I'd change is Rule of Law, since imho, Ethersworn Canonist is stricly better. It's faster (remember how I always recommend playing your lockpiece with W open to Chant?), equally tutorable and it actually puts your opponent on a clock.

Good luck with your tourney :).

Grtz Tom

Usually, I would agree on you on Canonist, Tom. But currently, I am paranoid with Burn. Having something outside Story Circles and Pulse of the Fields. Cannonist simply cannot do there. Also, there is that issue of needing it to work with it under Humility because of Elves combo. Maybe I am wrong again on this one but for now, using Rule of Law wont hurt.

So should I just stick with 61 on my main? Could running only 21 snow permanents hurt my snow-draw engine (if I replace 1 of my SC Plains with a Kor Haven)?

@(nameless one)

I run 18 Snow-Covered Plains and 3 Scrying Sheets and never have a problem with it working out and getting me lands. So i wouldn't worry about taking out one land and putting in another. you also have the Eternal Dragons in there to help you get lands. i wouldn't worry about running 21 Snow Lands.

Runed Halo could be cut to a one of. It's really only stellar in limited scenarios.

I don't know why you need Pithing Needle, honestly. You play the main card it's good against. Then again, I guess it stops Pridemage, EE and Deed.

Outside AnT, I never find Pithing Needle a dead card. I actually like Runed Halos too. I'l keep testing my 61 main and see if it makes any differences.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

I don't know why you need Pithing Needle, honestly. You play the main card it's good against. Then again, I guess it stops Pridemage, EE and Deed.

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I agree that it really should be there in the main deck, you could fit something else in there. If anything I see Pithing Needle more as a sideboard card for those reasons.

I am keeping Pithing Needle as a tutor target. That card hasn't disappointed me so why take away something that actually helps. I am actually keeping the 21 snow-lands. I don't mind it at all. So far, It hasn't failed me with my playtesting. I still draw my cards with it.

Speaking of drawing cards, IBA debuted his Magic Murder Box.dec. Like any IBA control decks, it featured an obscure, yet ideally functional card draw engine:

Thawing Glaciers + Scroll Rack

I am still trying to figure out how to use it effectively but I reminded me of the original MWC deck: Parfait.

Is it possible that we can run that card draw engine in this deck and bring the reminiscence of Parfait?

Whats your opinion on this IBA?

I think that involving another draw engine in Quinn is redundant, and probably unnecessary. Squeezing in more cards seems a little tough; I mean how many Scroll Racks and Thawing Glaciers would be required for a decent return?
Personally, my deck is morphing back to a Parfait style deck. Mainly because I'm not running Grindstone...
but the snow engine still seems to be most effective.

I not saying involving another draw engine. I am suggesting to replace the Snow-draw with Scroll Rack+Thawing Glaciers. I actually like the idea of shuffling back dead card back to your library.

Also, why aren't you running Grindstones? I usually do that depending on the meta. But my main win-con on an unknown meta would be the Grindstone+Painter combo.

Quinn players and IBA, I'm really sorry if this sounds rude.

I like the deck but a few questions keep bugging me, how sure are you that sensei's top is the best card draw engine for the deck?

I ask because IBA built another control deck with scroll rack, are you sure scroll rack won't make a better engine than Top?

What made Scroll Rack better for that deck where Top is better for this deck?

Are you sure it's not worth it to splash blue to play Counterbalance alongside Top?

Are you sure the planeswalkers aren't worth playing?

Basically are you absolutely certain that the current deck engine is the most optimal one? Were the other alternatives tested?

P.S: What if land tax gets unbanned will that be a better engine?

Would you simply cut Top and Sacred Mesa (the only card that requires a lot of mana) and play 3 Land Tax and 3 Scroll Rack in the deck then or would the deck have to change wholly and completely to work in top and rack?

SDT isn't just a draw engine. It also helps the deck make land drops every turn (along with Scrying Sheets) throughout the game. SDT is what makes the deck work as a Toolbox deck in junction with Tutor.

The thing about Scroll Rack is that if you donthave a draw/shuffle card, it can't really help much. That the reason why it worked with Land Tax and not with Fetchlands. Also, the way SDT work in this is that the lands that you are grabbing from Scrying Sheets can be dropped. If that was Scroll Rack, you'd need to save your lands for Rack+Sheets. Although I like IBA's idea to pair it with Thawing Glaciers.

Blue weakens the mana base. It requires running blue based Duals and Fetches. In doing so, you make the Sheets engine weaker. You can use Snow Islands but that goes back in weaker mana base.

Elspeth does see play in some builds I myself am 50/50 with her. While tutoring Sacred Mesa is the last thing that I want to do, mass producing tokens is awesome when you have ten lands in play. I will try to encorporate Her in my latest build along with Nevirryal's Disk. After all, I am running two Humilities.

The mentioned decklist isn't optimal. I believe the deck itself is a giant sideboard itself as the maindeck is on a constant change depending on a meta. Some list are better agaisnt aggro (like mine), whereas other lists are geared against combo or control. Some lists even have a land tutor package (via Expedition Map) against certain metas. I think that is the main reason why bring a deck like this in a 500 person event isn't a good idea. I could be wrong though.

The deck engine however, it's the greatly accepted one. SDT + Snowlands + Tutor is the way to go.

If Land Tax was legal, I would imagine the deck principle to be different. Maybe the same as this deck's grandfather: Parfait. I myself am trying to build a Land Tax + Scroll Rack parfait deck but everytime I try building it, I always end up shifting somewhere (I am now building Dredge LOL)

I would love to hear IBA's ideas as it is his deck. I could be wrong on some of the information I provided that he could correct.

Thank you for answering the questions.

I have one last hypothetical question. If land tax gets unbanned, then, in your opinion, would the resulting white control deck be strictly superior to/more powerful than Quinn. Or would Quinn probably remain the better deck, or would the format have two white control decks that are equal in viablity and powerlevel (seems extremely unlikely for legacy to support two mono white control decks)?

I know that there is no way to know for sure, but in your opinion, would land tax parfait displace this deck's role and function in the metagame?

Basically, I don't know if I want to invest in building this deck, if it's going to be rendered obselete/inferior whenever Land Tax gets unbanned.

According to IBA (way back in the posts), this deck's engine is supposed to be better than Land Tax+Scroll Rack engine. I am not entirely sure about that but so far, I tried fitting this deck on a Parfait engine it it just doesnt work.

I think that Parfait engine is a whole different approach. It will not necessarily displace this deck's role. The way I see it, its (if Land Tax were unbanned), Quinn vs. Parfait would be like Aggro Bant vs. New Horizons. To someone unfamiliar with the two decks, it would look the same but its not really.

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Originally Posted by Jon Stewart

Thank you for answering the questions.

I have one last hypothetical question. If land tax gets unbanned, then, in your opinion, would the resulting white control deck be strictly superior to/more powerful than Quinn. Or would Quinn probably remain the better deck, or would the format have two white control decks that are equal in viablity and powerlevel (seems extremely unlikely for legacy to support two mono white control decks)?

I know that there is no way to know for sure, but in your opinion, would land tax parfait displace this deck's role and function in the metagame?

Basically, I don't know if I want to invest in building this deck, if it's going to be rendered obselete/inferior whenever Land Tax gets unbanned.

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Here is a hypothetical question. what if Land Tax never gets unbanned... Oh wait thats not hypothetical at all. Land tax will not be unbanned so you don't need to worry about it at all. If i repeat IF it ever gets unbanned then you can start talking about it but until that day comes it does not need to be brought up.

Yes I understand that. Call it curiosity more than anything.

I'm curious if people feel the top sheets engine is better than the tax rack engine (plus the need to run mox diamond/chrome mox and lower cc control cards) for a white control deck.

I'm curious if a particular high cc card or cards white control needs hold back the potential viability of a tax rack engine deck even if it were legal.