Infect is good but struggled against eavy control deck, or créature control deck, and that's decks to beat in this meta (grixis delver, bug control etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by Havrekjex
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Infect is good but struggled against eavy control deck, or créature control deck, and that's decks to beat in this meta (grixis delver, bug control etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by Havrekjex
Hi guys,
Heads up: wall of text incoming. Skip to tournament 2 for the most interesting part (with video footage links)
It's been a while since I've posted something and I've finally found time to write reports of my last 2 tournaments, both going top8.
Tournament 1: 46 players, 3/4 place
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17411&d=307818&f=LE
This report will be brief, it's been too long ago to remember all matches correctly, but 'll try.
R1: 1-2 loss vs UR delver
R2: 2-1 win vs maverick
R3: 2-1 win vs lands
R4: 2-0 win vs miracles
R5: 2-0 win vs UW control
R6: ID for top 8 (8th place)
QF: 2-0 win vs UB delver
SF: 2-0 loss vs enchantress
Thoughts on the tournament: where have all the combo players gone? Infect has such a difficult spot in the meta right now. Funny that I have to lose to enchantress then, since that's generally a good matchup. Both my hands were slow though, which gives enchantress the time it needs.
Now onto the more interesting report! When writing this, no results have been posted on mtgtop8 yet.
Tournament 2: 96 players (Dutch open series), 2nd place
This report is interesting for me because I have been filmed on the feature match 5 times. I almost felt bad for the people watching. I will report the matches not on camera, but for the games that were captured I will simply post the link with my thoughts and responses to some of the (twitch) questions and/or remarks during the game.
R1: 2-1 vs grixis delver:
A difficult matchup to start with! G1 was an extremely long game, around 30 minutes. I win die roll and see a hand on turn 2 with FOW, brainstorm, ponder, fatal push, bolt and 2x daze. Damn, good hand. My game plan now consists out of playing around the dazes and playing some elves to get rid of his removal spells. I have a blighted agent from my opening hand, that's the one I want to resolve at the right time. Game comes down to me having 1 life and playing the agent with him holding only his 2 dazes in hand. I untap with the agent and invig+berserk for the win. G2 he has an early pyromancer and TNN follow-up. I die pretty quick. G3 I see his hand with 2x daze and a FOW with some other irrelevant spells. I bait out his FOW with my green sun's zenith for x=1, following up with my agent the next turn. He gets pumped to death next turn.
R2: 2-1 vs dragon stompy:
I win the die roll, thank God for that. G1 I start of with fetch for tropical island + noble. He follow up with blood moon. Thank you noble, I love you <3. I simple cast a creature every turn (elf or noble) and run him over. G2 he resolves blood moon on turn 1, I cry. G3 I fetch for noble. He plays trinisphere which I daze. Next turn I cast an elf and replay land. He plays an ensnaring bridge, which I FOW. GG.
R3:2-0 vs lands:
G1 I play an elf, he tries to punish it. I daze and kill him on T2. G2 he gets an early maze, but I have a vines, so I can pump through it.
R4: 2-1 vs turbo depths
https://go.twitch.tv/videos/200654698
Game starts at 03:47:27
Best moment of the game: commentators saying 'this is going to be a fast one'.
G1: nothing interesting to add
G2: nothing interesting to add
G3: I think my opponent should have destroyed my karakas, that would have sucked. Also worth noting is that I decided to board out my dryad arbor in the matchup. Not all decks play sylvan safekeeper and if they don't it really is a useless card. You will never block that 20/20 flying with it. I didn't see it G1/2 so I thought he didn't play any. Maybe I'll leave it in next time though, just to be sure.
R5: 2-1 vs BUG delver
G1: I can an early elf which he can't block and after pitching in for 1 a few times, become immense saves the day.
G2: he pretty much wastes and removes everything I have
G3: Sylvan safekeeper + inkmoth nexus online is good. IT IS GOOD. Also, everyone underestimates it. I just attack with it every turn and let him initiate so I can respond and thus winning the interactions.
R6: 2-1 vs BUG delver
https://go.twitch.tv/videos/200654698
Game starts at 05:52:46
Best moment of the game: Me winning 5 times, not being able to draw (me sad) and winning the game getting first place in top 8 (me happy)
G1: I want to comment on me playing a second glistener elf, even though I already have one in play. This is the right thing to do and here's why: BUG delver usually has no toxic deluge in the main board and even if they do, it's a one-off. What they do play a lot of is removal and usually discard (or both with lili). The best strategy to play against BUG delver is going wide and getting as much threats on the table as you possibly can. Don't want to get that lone elf killed or hymned. The odds of this happening are far, far greater than getting deluged. So yes, I still believe this was the correct play. Watching the game from above though, knowing my opponent has deluge, I can understand why people think I was overextending. Second note, at the end of the game I had to crop rotate for dryad arbor to block tarmogoyf since I would have been dead otherwise with the deathrite activation.
G2: what did I say about sylvan safekeeper + inkmoth nexus again? :wink:
G3: sylvan safekeeper <3
R7: ID
QF: 2-0 vs elves
https://go.twitch.tv/videos/200740180
Game starts at 00:32:41
Best moment of the game: commentators having to read my commander sideboard over and over again
G1: nothing interesting to add
G2: fetching for the dryad arbor and blocking heritage druid was so important there. If he doesn't bounce then I kill his mana dork. I'll take that trade any day! If he does bounce, I at least slow him down which is also excellent vs elves. Remember, this matchup is a race (even thought it was a slow race this game). I kept a very disruptive hand, but had no infecter in my opening hand. As the commentators noted, I kept my probe for my FOW. I don't need to know what's in his hand as it would not chance my game plan whatsoever. Keep the forces for the finishers because the elves can't race infect.
SF: 2-0 vs punishing abzan
https://go.twitch.tv/videos/200740180
Game starts at 01:02:47
Best moment of the game: I mulligan to 7 and immediately know I ****** up. This was not on camera, but now my opponent can choose one card from my hand and I have to shuffle this in my deck. He basically gets a thoughtseize before the game. FML. I keep anyway, let's roll.
G1: nothing interesting to add
G2: sylvan library <3
F: 0-2 vs mono red prison
https://go.twitch.tv/videos/200740180
Game starts at 01:49:00
Best moment of the game: ponder on end step? Damn, I have been playing this game wrong for a long time!
G1: to clear this out, no I did not know against what I was playing. I should have looked around yes. Only problem was I literally had to play my last 4 matches at the feature table. This means I could never see any other game. I didn't know what my opponents were playing in the QF and SF neither by the way. Yes, maybe I should have asked around, but I didn't think of it then. Guess that's my bad. Had I know I was playing vs mono red prison, I would not have played nexus T2 and maybe the could would have gone differently. In all honestly though, his hand was pretty bonkers so I don't know if I could battle though that.
G2: I have to FOW that chalice, which sucks. I hoped he would go for any red spell whatsoever so I could hydroblast. Chalice was the only thing I didn't want to see. After my probe, I see another bonkers hand and I know this is going to be tough. Important part of the game then is my ponder. You see me thinking about it for quite a long time and I was considering shuffling or not. It may seem pretty easy, but here's my though: I was really afraid of blood moon. If that resolves, I lose. I know I need a pump, but if I get 1 pump and he follows up with blood moon, I lose. I also know his entire hand at that point and I know that with the daze, I can counter anything in his hand, unless he draws a land. So I have to choose between a random card and random follow ups, or trying to play the best I can with the cards I have seen. I choose the latter. Unfortunately, my opponent draws a land and I get punished for the decision. Being able to force the blood moon on the next turn is bittersweet since that was exactly what I was afraid was going to happen, but the game is over. In hindsight, I guess I should have shuffled. But it really wasn't an easy decision sitting on my spot.
Final thoughts
Infect is still a good deck and so much fun to play, but it is not in a good spot in the current meta. I'm pretty happy with my list now. I played the exact same list in both tournaments and it's been working pretty well for me. What do you guys think? Let me know if you have any questions and/or remarks. I'm always happy to learn from and /or give advice to you guys.
Keep on poisoning!!
Might you share your list? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenruscloud
Woops, forgot to add it in my post. I've added it in my post now but here it is again: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17411&d=307818&f=LE
I used this exact same list in both tournaments.
Thanks, it's quite similar to mine. I've seen you've changed 1pierce x 1flst (regular list) to gain a backup place and I think it's great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenruscloud
But I'm still not confortable with the one copy sb that everybody uses :D (wearing just 5 cantrips+gp)
Hi! May I ask how did you sideboard against Grixis Delver, Mono Red Prison/Dragon Stompy and BUG Delver? Even approximates. I'm kind of struggling against the first two so any advice would be appreciated!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenruscloud
How useful did you find playing Spellskite along with Sylvan Safekeeper? Did you side in both against Grixis?
I've been really happy with the extra flusterstorm in the sb. Mainly because it's not only good against combo decks like other counter cards, but also because it's very good vs fair decks carrying loads of removal. The meta right now is all about cheap removal like bolts, pushes and swords and in these matches flusterstorm really shines. We usually up the storm count for free ourselves with our pump spells (invigorate <3), so the flusterstorm basically gets uncounterable.
That's my experience at least. You should try it once and let me know what you think :tongue:
An excellent question! In my experience, delver games are all about trying to keep 1 infect guy alive, preferably blighted agent. The exact SB changes depend on each matchup, but I will always bring in a crop rotation, spellskite, sylvan safekeeper and flusterstorm. The crop rotation is REALLY GOOD, don't underestimate it. One of the best plays you can do with it is crop rotating in response to a wasteland, killing them on your turn. skite and safekeeper are there to protect your guys and flusterstorm is very flexible card. An easy first out is always viridian corrupter vs decks that don't really use artifacts too much. After this, I trim counters vs delver decks (not all of them). It's really all about getting value with your cards and countering their stuff is just much less interesting than protecting your guys with a recurring effect like safekeeper or skite. It's basically free, so you get a 1 for 0. I'll take that trade any day! Also, the combination of spellskite + sylvan safekeeper is BROKEN AS BANANAS! I once had a game where a player had a jitte with 12 counters on it and I managed to resolve them both. After this all my creatures were basically unkillable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaek
The sideboard vs mono red prison/stompy is pretty meh. It's a very bad matchup in general. I always board in crop, sylvan library, dissenter's deliverance, nature's claim, pithing needle and hydroblast. Depending on the list I maybe add a FOW or creature protection. The problem vs these decks is that you kinda need a very fast hand, so you want to mull aggressively, but you can't do that since every single spell they play needs an answer. I never go below 6 in these matchups unless I really have to.
1st Place with Bant Infect. Year-End Tournament Legacy Majors. Took home an Underground Sea!
Decklist: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17753&f=LE
Adjustments: Noticed the field was chalice heavy (24 chalices that day!), I inserted in Dissenter's Deliverance replacing my 3rd Surgical.
MVP of the Game: 2 Pithing Needles. Clutch in the FINALS vs BUGDelver after losing game 1.
Game 2: I had my opponent down to 1, but he was able draw a creature and started toasting my crits with an equipped jitte. My only out was my last remaining inky with his jitte on 2 counters, no wasteland at sight... both hands empty. I draw PNeedle via sylvan FTW!
Game 3: My opponent mulled to 5 and cast the usual DRS turn 1... I have needle again in my opening... and without any hesitation I locked his DRS. He was able still to build enough mana and all I have are cantrips and pumps, very slow hand without a poison conduit : (. Mid game I was able to cast a Blighted and I can go for lethal next turn. On my turn I attacked an exalted BA, invi resolves... I fired another one for lethal, he ADecayed... I Vined.. BOOM! What he have on hand was another copy of ADecay which he cant cast anymore. Amazing finish!
Hello again guys,
Got another top8, this time ending 3/4th place: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17773&f=LE
Funny tournament since a friend of mine, also on infect, made it to top8 as well.
He finally included Sylvan Safekeeper in his deck for the first time after I told him every single tournament that it's great.
That can't be a coincidence right?
Anyway! On to the report!
I made fewer notes then usual, I kinda forgot and only realised it when I was already in game 5.
R1: 0-2 loss vs BUG
As ever so often, I lose the first round. I swear guys, I'm not doing this on purpose. I really do try to win all my games!
My deck really wasn't quite ready. G1 I have no infect creatures in my opening hand, but I do have BS + ponder. Both find no creatures and I lose doing nothing. G2 I mull to 6 and keep a rather weak hand, again with no infect creatures. I try to do something but lose. Pretty bad start.
R2: 2-1 win vs grixis control
I lose G1 hard, he has pretty much everything he needs. G2 I probe at the right time so I know the coast is clear. G3 I have Sylvan Safekeeper, winning me the game. The card is insane, play it!
R3: 2-0 win vs infect
The mirror, yay! I don't really like this matchup. Whoever finds a blighted agent first pretty much wins. I find him first in both G1 and G2, so I win.
R4: 2-1 win vs DnT
G1 he gets jitte online, I zenith for my main board corruptor and win. G2 he has all the lock pieces and I can't play magic. G3 I find an early sylvan library, which wins me the game.
R5: 2-0 win vs enchantress (kinda)
The game was on camera, it starts around 2.00: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6gNXm1SoWM&t=355s
You can see I mull aggressively. Don't underestimate enchantress, it's pretty good. However, if we have an explosive start we win this match fairly easy, so I like to mull for a good start. I guess the video speaks for itself.
R6: 2-1 win vs miracles
Games vs miracles are always intense, and this one was no different. G1 lasted for about 30 minutes. I squeezed through some infect damage one by one, meanwhile losing a bunch of creatures to plow and terminus. In the end, my opponent is at 8 infect and 6 life (dryad arbor ftw), but he stabilizes with a Jace and I lose. G2 I'm too fast for him to stabilize and G3 I surgical his swords in turn 2, pitching 2 more from his hand, winning me the game.
R7: ID into top8
QF: 2-0 win vs eldrazi
G1 my opponent mills to 5 and I annihilate him with the lack of cards. G2 I keep a very good hand with invigorate + berserk, hoping my opponent has no chalice on turn 1. He doesn't, so my turn 1 elf gets the job done pretty quickly.
SF: 0-2 loss vs Bant stoneblade
Well this is one of these matches I just couldn't win. My opponent pretty much has everything he needs both games, drawing all answers to my threats, meanwhile having jitte online both games. I try my best, but lose anyway.
Hi, fellow Infect players. New to the source here. Thank you everyone for the tips and updates on this thread.
You've all helped me become a better Infecter. I jumped into Legacy about a year ago, couple months before GP Vegas (where I got rekt) and have been in love with the format. I look forward to sharing all I've learned and am to learn with you all. Let's get started!
Team Constructed
R1 vs Grixis Delver 0-2
G1 Forgot about Stifle... I lost a land as he responded to me fetching. I kept a Blighted Agent, Inky, Brainstorm, fetch hand... got blown out. Early Delver blind flip sealed the deal quick
G2 Had to mull and he T1 Delver, eventually 2 Delvers and had all the answers
R2 vs Turbo Depths 2-0
G1 Opponent mulls to 5 :/
I think he opened with a Fetch pass into T2 Sylvan Safekeeper after fetching for Bayou then Swamp.
I just remember Wastelanding his Bayou and Spell Piercing a Crop Rotation and it was enough to get me there I mean he did mull to 5. Oh the game went long enough for all my lands to be out except for the forest I sac'd to CropRo, funny thing happened the turn before opponent died. He drew Bojuka Bog and exiled my grave, passed the turn and sure enough my draw was BImmense ... killed him coz I had all 4 trops out an Inky and a Fetch I used to put in the grave.
G2 on draw
My opening hand was:
Elf, Noble, Berserk, Invigorate, Trop, Inkmoth, Probe... 😸
His T1 was land, Safekeeper again..
Draw.. It's a Blighted Agent. I Probe get an Inkmoth... see no removal or any disruption but he has a T3 Marit Lage... So.. I saw no point in trying to play a long game, plus I'm already 2 cards deeper in the deck so I decided and hope I got the 2nd green source for the Berserk Combo to go through the Safekeeper with Exalted and I got there sure enough. 🌴
Though I would have been fine if I did play it a bit safer. Probe was the MVP that led to my line of choice.
-3 FoW -3 Daze -1 Flusterstorm
+2 Needle +1 Karakas +1 Blossoming Defense +2 Submerge +2 Naturalize
Round 3
Vs Death and Taxes 2-0
G1
Opponent is on the draw and had to Mulligan to 4, good luck! He had T1 Mom into T2 Thalia great mull to 4 but it wasn't enough as I had the Berserk Invigorate and Noble to push through 11 Infect after he blocked with Thalia
G2 he had a good hand but his mana base was 2 Cavern of Souls ... ... it was slightly grindier and he got an early Thalia out on T2 which he used a Wasteland to cast so I waste his Wasteland lol and play a Noble
Ultimately
2 Nobles, Inky, Invigorate into BImmense got me there after he chose to tap out for a 3 mana Jitte due to Thalia being out
-3 FoW -1 Spell Pierce
-2 Daze
(An argument can be made to sb in Karakas just for Thalia but eh..)
+2 Naturalize
+1 Blossoming Defense
+1 Viridian Corrupter
+2 Pithing Needle
Round 4 vs 4c Deathblade 2-1
This match up is okay, better than Grixis Delver match up. It could be fun.
Game 1
I win the die roll after my opponent playfully brags about always getting high rolls and winning them the whole day.
T1 Elf he responds with FoW pitching True Name, I like.
I out grind him and win with extra protection and counters to spare. I don't think he needed to Force my Elf on his Turn 0 but I dunno
Game 2
He wins after he blows me out with a Double Daze... Eh, it happens.. XD
So lesson learned, before fighting on the stack before sure to fetch before doing so, if Daze is still relevant
Game 3
My opening hand was Inky, Inky, Fluster, Fluster, Trop, Brainstorm, Elf, YOLO
He kept a hella reactive hand
T1 Trop into Elf..
He Forces my Elf again (fine)
Then on his turn Thoughtseizes me taking the Brainstorm... then Surgically extracts Glistener Elf.. I was confused....
I proceed to draw Gas in the form of Blighted Agent and I start chipping in with him and Inky. 2 poison. His T3 he plays a land and passes leaving up Clique for after my draw.
I draw and surely enough he runs VClique out targeting me.. in response, I cast the Invigorate that I just drew for the turn on Blighted Agent. He see's my hand and is disappointed as the only new card was the Wooded Foothills (Fluster x2) I drew on my third turn.
I play my fetch and get a trop animate both Inkys and swing out, he blocks an Inky of course but takes 6 poison. 8 poison in total. He finds an STP for my Blighted Agent and runs out a DRS..
I draw a Pithing Needle but don't even bother to play it as the Deathrite was irrelevant, he couldn't find an answer for Inkmoth and my Flusterstorms were just waiting for anything relevant the whole time. Winning
(I should've ran the Needle out and called Wasteland now that I think about it, but I had drawn a Vines and he was top decking so I guess it didn't matter)
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Blossoming Defense
+1 Viridian Corrupter
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Submerge
-1 Wasteland
-4 FoW
-1 CropRo
-1 Spell Pierce
Top4 Semifinals
Vs the same Grixis Delver 2-0 Same guy I played in R1
G1
Wastelands wrecked me early in the game.. and when I got a Noble out to support my Inkmoth to try for action he had the Lightning Bolt for it.. it got to a point where I had no green source to play
to cast my pump spells and he had a Gurmag and DRS out.. I just had to go for it after I drew my fetch , got a Forest and attacked into a Gurmag Angler and DRS with my baby Elf no berserk in hand.... ...opponent didn't block and he was already at 1 poison
Invigorate, he casts Bolt in response, and I Invigorate and got there with a Vines ready
G2 he kept a Wasteland heavy hand and destroyed 3/4 trops.. all I had to do was draw a Fetchland coz I had an Agent out and he tapped out to play his creatures, and I did. He left a Volcanic up with 3 cards in hand. But I figured if he had nothing since didn't have a better play. I went for it and got there with Invigorate + BI.
-2Daze
-1 Berserk
-1 Become Immense
-1 FoW
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Hydroblast
+2 Pithing Needle
+1 Blossoming Defense
My teammates unfortunately lost so we couldn't progress.. But overall I feel like I've improved at Sideboarding, trying not to over board.
My list that I'm currently using was inspired by Poxy14's Miracles Drop Off list. For this tourney I ran one with no white splash as I expected 4c decks.
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Inkmoth
4 Tropical Island
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
1 Wasteland
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ponder
2 Become Immense
2 Crop Rotation
4 Invigorate
2 Berserk
2 Vines of Vastwood
1 Blossoming Defense
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
1 Sylvan Library
Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Naturalize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Hydroblast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
2 Submerge
1 Viridian Corrupter
Glad to hear this odd list is doin good for you too! Leaving you more room for more helpers : ). Goodluck!Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthGawjus
Question to my fellow infect players. If this deck isn't positioned so well in the current meta due to creature removal threats, that are your thoughts on running 2x copies of pattern of rebirth. We chuck it on one of our guys, if it gets killed we fetch a progenitus or emrakul in response.
Your threats get killed three turns before you have mana to cast this or in response to you casting it. There's literally a shitload of cards to use before Pattern even becomes a consideration. You can start with Blossoming Defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire
Infect took first at Legacy in Luzern against a field of Swords to Plowshares.
http://blog.gameplace.ch/legacy-17-dezember/
I'm starting to think you guys are just lying to us about how poorly infect is positioned so you can keep flying under the radar. This deck is great.
1. If removal is the largest problem this deck has, there's no reason it should want to play a four mana aura. This is just committing more mana than our pump spells cost while still opening ourselves to getting 2 for 1'd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire
2. Pattern of Rebirth does not trigger off of Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, or Terminus
3. Playing an Emrakul/Progenitus in the deck creates dead draws, as there's no way to hard cast them
I feel like you haven't play tested this at all. If you can garner some results with it I'd be happy to take another look at Pattern of Rebirth, but until then it's probably best to take it for a spin yourself before presenting it to the community.
Unfortunately, Swords to Plowshares is only a small fraction of what we have to worry about. Kudos to Fabian Salzmann for navigating his way to a first place finish, but one data point still doesn't change our poor matchups against Grixis Delver and Czech Pile, two of the most prevalent decks in the format. If U/W based control decks begin making their way back into the meta, we might be able to restore our foothold in the legacy metagame. As it is however, the combination of blue permission, black discard, and red/black removal from top tier decks is way too much for Infect to consistently handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by FavoredRevenant
I agree with this to an extent, however I had some success in the current meta when I designed my list to beat Czech and think the deck is more of a force to be reckoned with than current results/opinions may suggest. As a late tourney report, I won a Tabernacle at a EW trial (56 players I think?) with the following list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Non-land Creatures:
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Blighted Agent
Spells:
4 Invigorate
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Berserk
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
1 Stifle
1 Crop Rotation
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Become Immense
Lands:
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
1 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Blossoming Defense
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
1 Karakas
1 Hydroblast
1 Divert
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Force of Will
1 Yavimaya Hollows
The idea was to maximize on answers to Hymn and try to have those answers double on early turns spot removal, while respecting big Legendary creatures and red spells. The list felt good, nothing really felt unbeatable other than SnS and Big Red (thankfully dodged both, kudos to my Miracles opponent in the Finals who knocked Big Red out for me). Diverting my opponent's Edict started an entertaining conversation against a Czech player as I explained the interaction.
I faced Reanimator, Czech Pile, Miracles, RG Lands, Tezzerator...and....my memory is fading. Another Czech I think? Should of wrote it down at the time, sorry. But in my local meta this list also felt good against all variants of Delver and Czech while still having game against the rest of the field. I've been experimenting with other decks since snagging the Tabernacle, but this list is what I would fall back on for an important tourney. I'd like to fit a Safekeeper in the board but can't find the space.
Anyway, deck is good imo. The False Tempo advantage is real, playing this deck allowed me to maximize on my opponent's lack of information more than anything else I've ever played. Very fun too.
There's no Spell Snare in this? Not that it's required by any means, but your main deck looks like a pretty stock list and the less traditional choices in the sideboard don't seem like they'd help your Czech Pile matchup all that much. Spell Snare hits the following cards that are commonly played in Czech Pile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Balanced
Hymn to Tourach
Counterspell
Diabolic Edict
Marsh Casualties
Snapcaster Mage*
Baleful Strix*
*I want to highlight Snapcaster Mage and Baleful Strix because they're ETB value cards that we typically have trouble interacting with on the stack.
To be frank, I'm not sure how you're winning most of your games against Czech Pile with this list. Your plan of countering Hymns and removal is hard enough as it is, but to have to do that in addition to fighting through counter magic and constant sources of card advantage is something that I just don't think Infect is very well suited to do. At the end of the day, they're working with a higher density of relevant cards, while we're trying to cobble together a combination of threat, pump, and counter magic on 3 separate axes that can all be interacted with. They have very few dead draws and a large number of cantrips to filter through the deck. We have counter magic and pump spells that can get stranded in hand without a threat to use them on.
As an aside, our deck traditionally has a favorable match-up against Big Red. Even without silver bullets in the sideboard, we're just a low to the ground combo deck that's not as affected by lock pieces as many other combo decks.
I never considered snare. I'll think about that one, I agree hitting Baleful is very nice. Yeah, the main deck does feel pretty stock to me as well, where I prefer pierces over flusters the 2nd ponder over library and to have the 1 of stifle (this card was very valuable many times). Maybe I've just had good luck, I've had a similar experience with Czech that I've had with Miracles, which is generally setting them off kilter in the first few turns then finishing them off in the early mid game as they try to catch up. I certainly don't think the matchup is a heavily favorable, it's just been acceptably winnable for me I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
I've managed to dodge Big Red period, but early chalices and blood moons into consistent removal (Chandras) or Sneak Attacks both scare me unless I have a very fast hand. Maybe it's not as bad as I think.
That's fair, I might've misconstrued your previous post. Czech Pile is going to be a rough match up for us, at this point I've tried many things and it just doesn't seem like the tools for us to effectively combat them exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Balanced
Chalice and Blood Moon definitely have the potential to lock us out, but I find we're typically in pretty good shape if we can fetch out our basic forest and/or resolve a Noble Hierarch. I wouldn't worry about Chandra as a removal spell, she costs 4 mana and has to tick up twice more before she can be used a second time. 4 damage is also just inside Invigorate's protective capabilities, and sorcery speed means our Inkmoths are untouchable by her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Balanced
For what it's worth, I used to be pretty worried about this match-up too. That said, every opponent I've run into playing this deck at larger tournaments says Infect is their kryptonite. I'm sure there's a little bit of a mental bias at work here, where the losses against big red feel so overwhelmingly convincing and completely out of our control that we tend to skew the match-up outcome in their favor.
@fenruscloud was needing some sideboarding tips for certain matchups, mainly, Lands, Grixis Delver, and DnT, Also, i run 1 necropede in my board, along with 2 shaper's sanctuary, was wondering your opinion on these 2 cards, and 3rd, what is the nissa in your board for?
Hello Dowws,
Answering these questions is difficult since this all depends on your own preferences, playstyle and even different versions of the decks, but I will try to give some general tips.
1) Sideboarding
-Lands: First of all, counters are pretty much useless in this matchup. They play almost no spells at all, and the ones they do can be returned forever (life from the loam and punishing fire). Therefore, I board out pretty much all my counterspells. Cards that are always good vs lands are graveyard removal to get rid of these recurring spells (bojuka bog, surgical extraction). Others cards I bring in are those to stop the marit lage token (karakas, crop rotation, sumerge, pithing needle). Last thing I do is get some value cards in to try to get ahead, disrupt their game, and to protect my creatures(spellskite, sylvan library, sylvan safekeeper, dissenter's deliverance, nature's claim). In general, this is a difficult matchup, but with the right tools post-sideboarding not all that bad in my opinion.
- Delver: In this matchup, it's all about keeping your creatures alive. Counters are still useful, but you don't want too many. I mostly trim counters and off course viridian corruptor since they play no artifacts. In goes spellskite, library, crop rotation, safekeeper, hydroblast and depending on their deck type needle as well (grim lavamancer for instance). Very difficult matchup as well.
-DnT: Again, counters are useless vs this deck. They have vial and cavern of souls, making counters worthless. Sideboarding is pretty much the same as vs delver, except I trim almost all of the counters and include the artifact hate. Possibly karakas to bounce thalia if I find a spot. In general, this is a good matchup.
2) Necropede and shapers' sanctuary
I don't like necropede at all. Can't think of a single matchup I would want it. Shapers' sancuary is interesting because it can generate a lot of value, but it can also do nothing. I've tried it a few times instead of sylvan library, but the problem is that while library is always good, sanctuary can be very awkward. I'm not dismissing this card just yet though, I want to try to include both of them in my sideboard, but haven't found a spot for it so far. I have to test some more to make a definitive conclusion.
3) Nissa, steward of elements
Infect has always been missing 1 thing in my opinion: a late game winner when the opponent controls the board. Where I play, everyone plays 4c control or Czech pile. These decks slaughter infect once they survive the early game, so I've been searching for a way to get around this and I've been trying nissa. So far, I haven't seen it a lot in my games, but whenever I had it, it was great. Not only is it a late game finisher, but it's also great if u have it early. I once won a game where my opponent on czech pile had the board completely under control. I had 1 berserk but no creatures. He had a bunch of removal. Normally, this is game over, but I got Nissa. I played it and got a +2 activation. Next turn I ult, going in for lethal regular damage. He had to use all his removal on the lands and I could simply berserk the one land he couldn't kill to kill him. I'm not sold on this card yet though, it's very bad (slow) against most other decks and I will need to test further to be sure about it.
Hope this helps, feel free to ask more questions or comment on my choices.
Good luck infecting!
"Wherever the Needle goes.. the Probe follows..."
Hi, guys my team finished 2nd in the Top 4 of a 16 team Trios Event. I was repping Posion of course. Anyhow I'll be sharing the key cards and interactions that mattered. Tnx for reading!
Team Trios Collector Legion 12/30/17
Round 1
Vs Bant Deathblade 2-1
•Game 1 I keep a Double Force Double Blighted Agent hand.. I used a Force on their Deathrite Shaman.. since I didn't have much action in my hand anyway. The game went on and they commit to Jitte and lose the game to Vines of Vastwood response to equipping their creature. Their hand 3 TNNs LOL
•Game 2 He won by forcing the Vines of Vastwood trying to prevent the Jitte equip ahaha I should have known it was gonna work a 2nd time as that guy was a well known player who played well.
•Game 3 Pithing Needle on Jitte is good.
He never saw his Abrupt Decay for the Pithing Needle and I kill him with Inkmoth purples by Invigorate and Spell Pierce countering his STP.
Key: Stick to Fundamentals in the one, Daze on the play , FoWs on the draw at least have 3, Git Probe and Needle is your friend.
Round 2:
Vs Lands
•Game 1
He craps on me with Tabernacle lock
Scoops
•Game 2
t1 I fetch Trop and play a Noble
t1 mox mox, Thespian Stage, played Sphere of Resistance.
t2 I play an Inky and pass.. Now I have all the mana to pay for Naturalize hehehehe
t2 he plays a Wasteland and casts Punishing Fire to kill my Noble, I respond with tapping 3 and Naturalizing Sphere of Resistance, he Wastelands my Inkmoth. With the PFire still on the stack, I Daze it.
I stuck a threat. Ended up with him cropping for Maze, I cast Vines before I attack and kill him.
•Game 3 he's on the play.. Good God I wanted to scoop, he turn 1'd Exploration into Wasteland
My t1 was Fetch for Trop and Noble..
t2 I thought he was gonna Waste my Trop but he hand better ideas.. he resolves a Molten Vortex... ... I wanted to scoop so bad. He pings my Noble with a land. I play a Fetch and pass.
T3 he plays Sphere of Resistance... gademmit. I play another land and pass..
His T4 I made sure to Naturalize that Sphere of Resitance Hahahaha and I can't believe I cut the 1 Naturalize from my list.
But he ended up setting up to where he could Marit Lage the next turn.
My T4 I play Brainstorm in hopes to find a Crop.. I didn't find squat.. only a bunch of pumps. My only hope was for him to mess up and think I have a Crop so I kept the Fetch up.
He untapped, and sure enough; instead of going for Marit Lage and killing me.. he chose to play around CropRo and Tried to Hit my Elf with Molten Vortex -Invigorate
in response he does it again, -Fetch, Blossoming Defense
I untap and cast a kicked Vines and Become Immense as he was tapped out.
Round 3 vs UR Sneak
•Game 1 I couldn't get there fast enough and didn't play around Spell Pierce, he cancelled my lethal pump and I lost.
•Game 2 I Force an early counter battle and he died with Sneak and Show on board to my Swarm of Infecters
•Game 3 I had to mull to 4 but didn't so I kept a potential 5 with one drops and Daze but no lander.. (I will never do this again)
Lost badly. If I could rewind I'd mull to 4 just cause. But I didn't want to.
My team is 2-1 in the tourney now
Round 4 vs Lands again.
•Game 1 He sets up PFire and Grove and kills my Infect threats leaving me with a Noble. I Brainstorm into 2 more Nobles and Become Immense and I had 2 Berserk in my hand. Ends with my opponent tapping out to PFire one of my 3 Nobles only to die to the 2 + Become Immense + double Berserk...
•Game 2 he blows me out the water with K-Grip as he was set up to kill me the next turn anyway. "KGrip is good when you're trying to win with Inkmoth, I learned this."
After He used it twice haha
•Game 3 we both mulligan and it was a grindfest and he kills my Inkmoth with K-Grip again smh... "KGrip is good when you try to win with I Brainstormed into a threat and killed him with a pre Blossoming Defense to play around Maze and pump for lethal.
We ended up playing to Draw that Round. Worked to our benefit, as we got paired up.
Round 5 win and in to Top 4
Vs Grixis Delver
•Game 1 I win a counter war as he wanted to fight the Blighted Agent during combat when I casted a Become Immense. He put Lightning Bolt on the stack, I cast Blossoming Defense, he Forces, I Force back putting him to 9 total Poison.
I chose this line because I knew it would put him to 9 total poison had I won it or at least 7. My Blighted Agent and Inkmoths on board would finish the job next turn as he had a lone Delver to defend. If I had waited any longer, I think I would have lost game 1.
•Game 2
He had me low as I didn't Force his Delver which he had flipped on T2 with his Brainstorm at Upkeep and I didn't slam my Sylvan Library early enough.. hmm...
•Game 3
Everything but the kitchen sink..
I thought this was gonna be quick as my hand was DAZE, ELF, ELF, NOBLE, INVIGORATE x2, Trop..
Turned out to battle of resources, I put Pithing Needle on Wasteland, even tho he resolved a late DRS coz it didn't matter. Opponent was at 5 Poison after my first Elf attack, he had the Spell Pierce for my 2nd Invigorate. Noble still on board Inky deals 2 a turn. He couldn't find answer while he was at 7, and when he Brainstormed and found a Lightning Bolt, I drew a Vines at my draw. GGs
Brainstorm is such a make or break card...
Top 4
Vs Bant Deathblade
We play against the same team we beat in Round 1 of Swiss. He's on the play this time as they end up as the first SeeD..
•Game 1 He starts with a Trop into DRS I wanna try and keep up so I play Noble and he resolves a T2 Stoneforged Mystic.
I get an Inkmoth and Elf out. He plays a Noble and blocks my Elf the following Turn after playing Wasteland. He Wastelands my Inkmoth at my end step. Jitte takes the game
•Game 2 I can't remember exactly what happened by I think the critical moment was Flusterstorm countering his STP.
I force a game 3
•Game 3 on the draw I mull to a sketchy hand, but I didn't wanna mull to 5 vs this deck, my hand was Brainstorm, Brainstorm, Daze, Fetch, Fetch, Invigorate.
In the hopes that my opponent played into my Daze, they did haha and with the second Brainstorm I find a threat. Ended with Needle on Jitte , He finds a Wasteland for Inky. He resolves a Stoneforged Mystic for Sword of Fire and Ice. I resolve Blighted Agent and leave up the mana for Vines.
Sword of F&Ice on board he tries to equip I cast Vines, opponent responds with Brainstorm, Vines stops the equip. I brainstorm and find the line to be the same, pump for lethal while my opp was tapped out.
Finals
UR Sneak and Show that I lost to in the Swiss.
•Game 1
He snuck in Griselbrand.. auto scoop.
•Game 2
I mulled kept a linear.. Berserk Inv Blighted land, land ,Flusterstorm..
Land, go
He plays a mountain and passes.
I draw Probe, I use it and see that he's got the Abrade ready for my Blighted Agent, and a FoW with no U card to pitch.. Probe draws a Daze. Pass
Opponent plays a Lotus Petal and fetchland and passes.
I play land 3 and cast Blighted Agent.
He waits to untap and try to fight on his turn which was correct. He plays Abrade using Ancient Tomb floating 1 and I lose the game because I Flusterstromed before I Dazed, distracted or not l, the lesson to be learned for me was to Daze first anyway to up Storm count to ensure Flusterstorm. Had I done it the other way, Blighted Agent would have stuck and I would have forced a game 3.
My team Finished 2nd place as my team mate lost right after I did. While I'm sure we played our best, and I did everything fundamentally correct up to that point; I was careless in the finals and screwed up with the order of spells and it cost me the game. Even so, I feel like it's better that I learned it there rather than making that mistake in the Grand Prix. Thank you for reading bros! Happy New Year
•Pithing Needle is a house at 2
•I regret cutting Bojuka Bog from my SB since I only have 2 Surgicals in my board currently
Had I the Bojuka Bog, the Lands match ups would have been way easier.
•I am debating wether Flusterstorm should be at 3 or 2 in the 75
•Daze is so strong, I wanna up from 3 to 4
What are you guys' thoughts on Flusterstorm count in the 75? How many should we have?
And how do you guys feel about Daze? Should we be playing 3 or 4?
I've been going back and forth on 3 or 4 Daze lately. It feels really good to Daze their Deathrite... but it feels really bad to stare down two lands and a Deathrite and draw a Daze. I'm on 1 Fluster main, 1 sideboard right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthGawjus
This has more potential in Modern, but I'm definitely going to experiment:
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/admirals-order/
I've seen some chatter around this card, but I honestly don't see it. Flexibility can be hard to value correctly, but a sometimes-Dispel, most-of-the-time-Cancel seems a big step down from Pierce/Fluster (and might be worse than actual Dispel). I guess it can counter the ol' mid-combat Clique, but I don't see many of those flying around these days. Let me know if your testing shows otherwise!Quote:
Originally Posted by qomori
Honestly, it isn't even worth testing. What do you want to counter mid-combat that pierce or fluster don't already counter (plus you also have force and daze)? The 3-mana default means it is uncastable outside of combat on your turn (so no help against combo).Quote:
Originally Posted by EJexpresss
Going in, I think Fluster/Pierce is going to be better. Also, people who know the match up shouldn't be waiting for combat to hit us, but I definitely still get lots of opponents trying to Ambush Viper + get value off of Snap mid combat. Provided we attacked, it also gets EOT Snap too.Quote:
Originally Posted by EJexpresss
Hey guys, fairly new to this thread but I have been playing Infect for a little over a year now. Just curious how does everyone feel about a maindeck flusterstorm? I have one in the board right now and like it, but have considered another in the main. I am running 3 Vines to Vastwood and one Blossoming defense so I would consider cutting a VoV for the flusterstorm.
Go for it, that's the exact configuration I've used in Infect since Blossoming Defense was printed. Vines is great, but I'm not in love with the double green required to kick it. Flusterstorm on the other hand is rarely a dead card, and it frequently nets us a 2 for 1 when used to fight over pump spells on the stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberman32
I play 2 flusterstorm in my main right now and I personally love it. Everyone is playing 4c Control or delver where I play so the main flusters really help. I never was a big fan of blossoming defense and prefer VoV. Guess that just depends on your own preference though.Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberman32
I've been playing infect for years with several good results in Paris, France and I've tried 1 and 2 flusterstorm main.
Since I love the card (I have also played it in blue Elves), I felt quite enthousiastic to run 2 copies main.
But in my tests, the second copy appeared to be a problem because fluster does not counter things like chalice, trinisphere, liliana .. where spell pierce is actually a very good card.
Most of the times, I use VoV like an extra counterspell, so having a pierce is often enough to win the battle.
Moreover, flusterstorm is also very good versus flusterstorm itself. So I think it's good to have one main (and to use it only if you really really need to in order to keep the information for you), and barely no other deck plays it main, and to bring the second one post side.
I was trying 2 fluster/1 pierce main, but I'm on 1 maindeck fluster, 2 Pierce with 1 extra fluster in the board now. Leaning towards Pierce for the reasons you stated, Adibou1er. Fluster is absolutely insane sometimes, but I like the flexibility in game 1.
Has anyone tried search for azcanta in the ponder/sylvan library/jace vryn's prodigy slots? if so, what did you think?
Never tried because it looks like a control or, at least, midrange card to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by drocker23
Plus, it is really, really, really slow... And you don't want to spend 3 manas to activate it.
Sylvan is just superior here.
Keep or mull.
On the play - in the dark - green fetch ×2 inkmoth x2 force - daze - elf
ME - mull for sure on he draw, maybe keep if on play and vs ANT or SnT or miracles
so i've been seeing some recent lists splashing white for Swords to Plowshares and Rest in Peace out of the sideboard while others are still sticking to straight UG. why are people adding the splash color? Is one version better than the other?
Does infect just die to Baleful Strix's all day long? Is that why there are so few lists floating around?
White splash is not a new thing. Rest in peace was almost mandatory if you wanted to beat lands back in the day and Swords has no drawback in this deck.
Strix is a thing but you can dodge it post side with anti artefact card (K Grip is my best friend) or, according the deck you re facing, submerge.Quote:
Originally Posted by drocker23
Plus strix does not block Agent.
Short answer to this question is yes. That card is a nightmare.Quote:
Originally Posted by drocker23
This is also coupled with the fact that Baleful Strix decks are often packed full of card that we don't want to play against, like Hymn to Tourach and Fatal Push.
If Baleful Strix was the only card out of those decks that we cared about, you just Force of Will it and move on, but its not that simple as there are plenty of good cards in the matchups. In addition, unless you manage to snag it with Daze, we don't have any clear answers that aren't 2-for-1s. This is a big reason that Viridian Corrupter can be quite good in these spots.
It replaces itself, blocks 2/3 of our creatures, doesn't care about pump, and they just don't care if it dies. To get through it with Elf or Inkmoth you need specifically Berserk. Another aspect of this is that you need two pump effects (unless you have Become Immense) to get through it for a 10 point kill. Exalted is best, but if you have to use two spells plus Berserk it is a massive blowout and you almost lose the game on the spot if the Berserk itself gets countered.
This is one of the reasons you really need things like Sylvan Library and Jace in these matchups, because while Infect has raw power and speed it lacks grinding potential and card advantage. You ideally want to sneak under their haymakers and 2-for-1s to kill them before they get set up, but without a way to recover from this you can end up getting ground down to nothing pretty quickly.