[Deck] Goblins

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard

I disagree with GoblinSettler that you should drop any number of Aether Vial. Vial Goblins is Vial Goblins for a reason. It is a mana accelerator, it gives us our explosive drops, it's one of the many reasons blue mages don't like us, and less relevant nowadays, it wins Wasteland wars.

I agree with GoblinSettler that you should also try to get a hold of a 6th and perhaps a 7th fetch.

I would board the following against your current meta.
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Containment Priest or Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Tuktuk Scrapper or Wear // Tear or even a third Rest in Peace

Can you get a hold of 2 Containment Priest? I realize the cage has more text against Nic Fit and the like, but the value of having beat down against the combo decks is often undervalued. Don't undervalue your clock. If not Cage is very playable and in no way bad, and arguably better if you cannot get a hold of those fetches.

Pithing Needle is good and all, but it's never great. I'd just drop em for more bullets.

As a note I would not run Relic of Progenitus in a board that contains Chalice of the Void

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Thanks for the suggestions.
Containment Priest, don't have those, but i like it, let me see if i can find some. I totally agree, that Contamination could do an excellent job, especially because it has legs!

Regarding the Warchief i love them, but with the instigator i prefer to not run them, tried the deck with them, and it doesn't make the difference that does in the classic version.

Aether Vial ... in game 1 with vial and lackey on opening hand??? VIAL. The only card that i won't cut main board.

Relic of Progenitus, having splash, i would definitely run Rest in Peace.

I'll try the 6th fetch, and maybe the 7th... let's see.

Has anyone tried Goblin Wizard?

I have, Goblin Wizard is pretty lackluster. He's a worse Krenko at 4 mana and if you can cheat him into play then you didn't need him to begin with. The pro white is kind of nice though but I don't know where it would ever be useful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by owerbart

Has anyone tried Goblin Wizard?

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Amazing in EDH. Terrible in legacy.

Since we are back to one-liners:

ScatmanX, you got a PM.

Also, a general question to everyone: I am wondering how well Purphoros, God of the Forge fits into our deck. I don't wanna build the deck AROUND him (like: I won't play MWM, just because of Purphy, neither will I run Krenko solely because of that). I am on a WINstigator build right now and I am still entirely sure that this is the best route to take for the future. So my question is: what would be the "perfect" environment (=metagame/field) for the red god? In which MU does he inflate his full potential? In which MUs is he entirely useless?

Red God seems pretty great against Miracles, but we are already ahead in that match up... I'd assume hes too slow for Legacy, and anytime he would get someone for 2, Eidolon of the Great Revels would seem stronger. His +1/+0 buff isn't very aggressively costed either.

(I wish Eidolon had been a Goblin, so many red creatures with wasted creature types...)

Hello everyone! I'm a Looong time lurker in this thread (and website) and wanted to introduce myself before joining the discussions.

Who am I?
My name is Diego, I am brazilian and I play Goblins. I've built this deck in 2009. Even though I own these cards for like 5 to 6 years, most of the games I had with Goblins were online (and free). I've never attended to a tournament, so I'm pretty much new to the competitive level of Legacy. This year, I started to buy the pieces that were missing to complete my pool and while I do that, I wanted to join the discussion with questions and theories (As of now, I can't contribute with experiences as I don't have any).

What do I want?
I want to compete with Goblins this year. But, I want to do something slightly different. I will [1] use this thread to build a list and [2] stick to that list for the entire year, so I can [3] contribute with this thread my impressions of said cards in form of reports. This include the sideboard. Surely I won't win many tournaments if I don't tune the side for the meta, but I want to fight it as if every meta was an unknown one. Sounds crazy to me as I write, but, winning is not my goal for now. My real goal this year is to develop my skills with the deck and sideboarding.

Well, enough of that. I have a question:
How crazy is a Rgbw Classic Goblin build? Have anyone here tested it? The 'g' is only for Tin Street Hooligan. I'm under the impression it could work if the Rishadan Ports were cut.
I would use something like this:

4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Mountain
2 Plateau
2 Badlands
1 Taiga

Please note, this manabase is the same Kevin Deffenbaugh used some time ago with the adition of the Taiga: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=63829
What do you guys think about it?

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@GoboLord
All I can say about the card (and the game btw) is theory, as I have never used it.
Before I try to answer your questions, I would like to know some things first. Purphoros, God of the Forge has a drawback in a Goblin deck, but even then I feel its strong enough to be considered.

In a WINstigator list, I wanted to know how would you fit him in. I mean, the Legendary clause is no issue at all, as we have seen lists running 3 to 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben without trouble. The WINstigator lists I see here have the core of cards and the flex slots, which are used as a toolbox. Would you cut the size of the toolbox to fit Purphoros?

He costs four mana and can't be cheated into play before turn five. Without Matron/Ringleader, our hands won't be as full as we wanted it to be. I know there are many other things to consider, but, will the God be weaker without previous Goblin Ringleaders? And if we have Ringleaders and Purphoros, how can we reach the the exactly ratio of Goblins/Non-Goblins to make all our things work?

I see the Winstigator being the best build to use it because of the double red mana in many of the cards used, but at the same time, its explosiveness can lower our hand count before the God matters. There is a way to equalize this? I mean, maybe reducing the explosiveness of the deck and increasing its control elements. Perhaps?

I am not a fan of Purphoros because he is a 4 mana spell that is not a goblin and if I'm gonna play something like this i would want it to win the game immediately.
That said, i think he can have applications against any deck that gives you the time to cast him and then spam goblins in the following turns. To squeeze good value out of him the game must reach at least turn 6-7, and so i 'd play rishadan port alongside him to ensure you reach lategame. I understand you like winstigator builds right now, but i think purphoros works better in classic, more controlling builds. As for decks he can be good against, i assume control (basically only miracles) or midrange with lots of removal spells (pox, nic fit, maybe jund). Against stoneforge decks, while in paper he could be good, you have to prioritize artifact removal or his damages would just be blanked by batterskull or jitte lifegain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ranahr

Well, enough of that. I have a question:
How crazy is a Rgbw Classic Goblin build? Have anyone here tested it? The 'g' is only for Tin Street Hooligan. I'm under the impression it could work if the Rishadan Ports were cut.
I would use something like this:

4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Mountain
2 Plateau
2 Badlands
1 Taiga

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I've never considered the 4 color Goblins lists to be any good in the past, but with the decline of Wasteland, (I think we are one of only 3 "real" decks that play 3-4 copies) I suppose it could work. Treasure cruise and UR Delver have punished Wasteland decks recently... but I'm not sure what we gain from the Black or Green that solves any current problems. I feel like we COULD run 4 colors but Mono Red or RW still seems more attractive. I'm actually curios about running main deck Pyroblast's. Anyone have a suggestion on that?

Report on local small tournament (last "Tuesday")

• Players: 10
• Result: 3 Victories / 0 Draw / 1 Lost
• Final Position: 3rd

Game Results

• Game 1: Painter's Servant Combo (2-0)
• Game 2: UR Delver (2-1)
• Game 3: Maverick (0-2) Note: the first game took "ages", and the 2nd was just bad luck, at turn 10 no Matron neither Ringleador and without Fuel lost!
• Game 4: Reanimator (2-1) Note: Game 3, almost my opponent Released the lock of "Thalia" and "Chalice" and "Ethersworn Canonist" and "Grafdigger's Cage", he had to kill Thalia because he was 1 mana short (and almost dying), but i had another one on my hand (he was ready to do Show and Tell) and Wasteland on the draw!

Changes to deck since last tournament

• Included + 2 Fetchs
• Sideboard changes (changed almost everything)
• Removed Chrome Mox
• Increased land count +1

Deck Conclusions

1. 6 Fetchs... Perfect
2. Chrome Mox - Against combo ... MISSED. Despite of winning, it took eternities to start banging due to protection from combo first, giving time for them to almost recover, but ... i think we can live without them
3. Pendelhaven, did it's job perfectly!
4. Sideboard changes, improved the 2nd game (at least against Reanimator)

Main Deck

Creatures [27 Cards]
.4x Goblin Lackey
.4x Warren Instigator
.4x Goblin Chieftain
.4x Goblin Matron
.4x Goblin Ringleader
.2x Goblin Piledriver
.1x Stingscourger
.1x Goblin Sharpshooter
.1x Gempalm Incinerator
.1x Tuktuk Scrapper
.1x Krenko, Mob Boss

Instants [6 Cards]
.4x Tarfire
.2x Pyrokinesis

Artifacts [4 Cards]
.4x Aether Vial

Lands [23 Cards]
.4x Cavern of Souls
.3x Wasteland
.2x Pendelhaven
.2x Plateau
.2x Wooded Foothills
.4x Bloodstained Mire
.6x Mountain


Sideboard
.4x Chalice of the Void
.3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
.1x Ethersworn Canonist
.2x Grafdigger's Cage
.1x Rest in Peace
.1x Mindbreak Trap
.1x Pithing Needle
.1x Stingscourger
.1x Wear-Tear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zombiesquisher

I've never considered the 4 color Goblins lists to be any good in the past, but with the decline of Wasteland, (I think we are one of only 3 "real" decks that play 3-4 copies) I suppose it could work. Treasure cruise and UR Delver have punished Wasteland decks recently... but I'm not sure what we gain from the Black or Green that solves any current problems. I feel like we COULD run 4 colors but Mono Red or RW still seems more attractive. I'm actually curios about running main deck Pyroblast's. Anyone have a suggestion on that?

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I already played a 4 color Goblin deck ... and it was interesting... You loose speed, but gain control.
Unfortunately, since the local players are very few they started knowing the deck, and i changed it, maybe someday i'll start again with it, with a few changes :D hihihihi (total surprise, when Living Death Appears) ...
Here is what i played then ... try it for fun, and ... (Sideboard had Thalias, and my max damage on just 1 turn was 78 Damage, when only needed to give 7, he was playing standstill)

Creatures (25 Creatures)
.4x Goblin Lackey
.2x Skirk Prospector
.2x Goblin Piledriver
.2x Tin Street Hooligan
.2x Mogg War Marshal
.1x Stingscourger
.3x Goblin Matron
.3x Goblin Warchief
.1x Goblin Chieftain
.1x Goblin Sharpshooter
.1x Gempalm Incinerator
.1x Goblin Ringleader
.1x Krenko, Mob boss
.1x Siege-Gang Commander

Artifacts (4 Artifacts)
.4x Aether Vial

Spells (11 Spells)
.4x Tarfire
.2x Cabal Therapy
.1x Warren Weirding
.3x Living Death
.1x Pyrokinesis

Lands (20 Lands)
.2x Badlands
.2x Taiga
.1x Plateu
.4x Bloodstained Mire
.2x Wasteland
.2x Cavern of Souls
.3x Bojuka Bog
.2x Mountain
.1x Plain
.1x Swamp

Burn 0-2
+: 3 chalice of the void, 2 krosan grip, 1 thalia, guardian of thraben, 1 mindbreak trap, 1 umezawa's jitte
-: 1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker, 1 krenko, mob boss, 1 goblin settler, 1 goblin ringleader, 3 aether vial, 1 stingscourger. Dont know about vials and defenetly no need to sbin grips.

Volkov Green 2-0
This is very interesting deck( http://topdeck.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=504&st=280)
+: 2 krosan grip, 1 containment priest, 1 ensnaring bridge
-: 1 tarfire(bad card again this deck), 1 stingscourger, 2 aether vial(on the turn)

RU Standstill 2-0
+: 2 krosan grip, 3 chalice of the void, 1 thalia, guardian of thraben
-: 1 tarfire, 1 pyrokinesis, 1 stingscourger, 1 gempalm incinerator(no need to sbout), 1 goblin lackey, 1 warren instigator

UB Tezerator 2-0
+: 2 krosan grip, 1 rest in peace, 1 thalia, guardian of thraben, 1 faerie macabre.
-: 1 tarfire, 4 aether vial.
Turn 3 kill. goblin lackey->krenko, mob boss+Goblin piledriver,goblin chieftain.

Creature (29)
3 gempalm incinerator
2 goblin chieftain
1 Goblin warchief
4 goblin lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 goblin ringleader
1 goblin settler
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
3 Goblin piledriver
1 stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
3 warren instigator
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 krenko, mob boss

Instant (2)
2 pyrokinesis

Land (22)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Pendelhaven
2 Plateau
1 Taiga
3 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills

Other (4)
4 aether vial

Tribal instant (2)
2 tarfire

Sideboard (15)
3 rest in peace
1 thalia, guardian of thraben, last time dont want more than 1
1 umezawa's jitte, not the best card agains burn with our cant-be-protected creatures
2 ensnaring bridge
1 mindbreak trap
1 faerie macabre
3 chalice of the void
1 containment priest
2 krosan grip

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ranahr

Hello everyone! I'm a Looong time lurker in this thread (and website) and wanted to introduce myself before joining the discussions.

Who am I?
My name is Diego, I am brazilian and I play Goblins. I've built this deck in 2009. Even though I own these cards for like 5 to 6 years, most of the games I had with Goblins were online (and free). I've never attended to a tournament, so I'm pretty much new to the competitive level of Legacy. This year, I started to buy the pieces that were missing to complete my pool and while I do that, I wanted to join the discussion with questions and theories (As of now, I can't contribute with experiences as I don't have any).

What do I want?
I want to compete with Goblins this year. But, I want to do something slightly different. I will [1] use this thread to build a list and [2] stick to that list for the entire year, so I can [3] contribute with this thread my impressions of said cards in form of reports. This include the sideboard. Surely I won't win many tournaments if I don't tune the side for the meta, but I want to fight it as if every meta was an unknown one. Sounds crazy to me as I write, but, winning is not my goal for now. My real goal this year is to develop my skills with the deck and sideboarding.

Well, enough of that. I have a question:
How crazy is a Rgbw Classic Goblin build? Have anyone here tested it? The 'g' is only for Tin Street Hooligan. I'm under the impression it could work if the Rishadan Ports were cut.
I would use something like this:

4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Mountain
2 Plateau
2 Badlands
1 Taiga

Please note, this manabase is the same Kevin Deffenbaugh used some time ago with the adition of the Taiga: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=63829
What do you guys think about it?

--

@GoboLord
All I can say about the card (and the game btw) is theory, as I have never used it.
Before I try to answer your questions, I would like to know some things first. Purphoros, God of the Forge has a drawback in a Goblin deck, but even then I feel its strong enough to be considered.

In a WINstigator list, I wanted to know how would you fit him in. I mean, the Legendary clause is no issue at all, as we have seen lists running 3 to 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben without trouble. The WINstigator lists I see here have the core of cards and the flex slots, which are used as a toolbox. Would you cut the size of the toolbox to fit Purphoros?

He costs four mana and can't be cheated into play before turn five. Without Matron/Ringleader, our hands won't be as full as we wanted it to be. I know there are many other things to consider, but, will the God be weaker without previous Goblin Ringleaders? And if we have Ringleaders and Purphoros, how can we reach the the exactly ratio of Goblins/Non-Goblins to make all our things work?

I see the Winstigator being the best build to use it because of the double red mana in many of the cards used, but at the same time, its explosiveness can lower our hand count before the God matters. There is a way to equalize this? I mean, maybe reducing the explosiveness of the deck and increasing its control elements. Perhaps?

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Hi Diego, welcome!

I'm not an expert on the Goblins deck, but I don't know how much will you be able to get away without Rishadan Ports. Ports are great for augmentating the power of an early Lackey hit and Vial. Hopefully I'm wrong, don't forget to share your results!

Won a daily a few days ago with this list: Been doing well with it locally as well.

7x Red Fetch
4x Cavern
3x Mountain
1x Badlands
2x Plateau
2x Pendelhaven
4x Wasteland

4x Aether Vial
3x Tarfire
2x Pyrokinesis

4x Goblin Lackey
2x MWM
1x Stingscourger
3x Warren Instigator
1x Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
2x Gempalm Incinerator
3x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
2x Goblin Settler
1x Kiki-Jiki

SB
3x RIP
3x Thalia
2x Chains of Mephistopheles
1x Engineered Plague
1x Red Blast
1x Pyroblast
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Grafdigger's Cage

Several of these cards, and a good portion of the SB is adjustable depending on what you are seeing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by owerbart

I don't know how much will you be able to get away without Rishadan Ports.

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Rishadan Port is not a good card to play jn our deck right now. Im playing without Rishadan port for more than 1.5 yeah now,no regrets. I even cutting wasteland down to 3 copies, because I rarely want to use Thema - and when I use Them they usually destroy utility lands like Grove of the Burnwillows.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

Rishadan Port is not a good card to play jn our deck right now. Im playing without Rishadan port for more than 1.5 yeah now,no regrets. I even cutting wasteland down to 3 copies, because I rarely want to use Thema - and when I use Them they usually destroy utility lands like Grove of the Burnwillows.

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I tend to agree here, but don't forget that some of us play Goblin Settler nowadays, which is a tutorable. It also gives you the opportunity to play even less (something I would not advice btw) Wasteland, and get a even more resilient manabase.

Guys, I feel sad... A upcoming new set and again nothing to help our deck... I am really hoping that january 19th (if I'm not mistaken) will bring some good news (but of course this is just me daydreaming)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chatto

I tend to agree here, but don't forget that some of us play Goblin Settler nowadays, which is a tutorable. It also gives you the opportunity to play even less (something I would not advice btw) Wasteland, and get a even more resilient manabase.

Guys, I feel sad... A upcoming new set and again nothing to help our deck... I am really hoping that january 19th (if I'm not mistaken) will bring some good news (but of course this is just me daydreaming)

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I think that all of us have to write to wizards and ask them to create goblin shatter with dash. It doesnt solve our main problems but i feel like we can ask because elves have Reclamation Sage. And i want a good card too. I think it have to be like 1/1 or more, 1R, dash 2R, when comes into play you MAY destroy targer artifact. Fair enought.
What do you think about that idea?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OlegtheSuper

I think that all of us have to write to wizards and ask them to create goblin shatter with dash. It doesnt solve our main problems but i feel like we can ask because elves have Reclamation Sage. And i want a good card too. I think it have to be like 1/1 or more, 1R, dash 2R, when comes into play you MAY destroy targer artifact. Fair enought.
What do you think about that idea?

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That is a dream my friend unfortunately :frown:
I just don't ask for that much ... i only ask for:

* Goblin Grenade - to be TRIBAL GOBLIN
* Eidolon of the Great Revel - (or something similar, could be 1/1) to be Goblin.
* some kind of protection against board wipe, or something to protect our little green man something like "Kira, Great Glass-Spinner" in red! perfect perfect if it was goblin.

Okay ... i still believe in Santa Claus too :tongue:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chatto

I tend to agree here, but don't forget that some of us play Goblin Settler nowadays, which is a tutorable. It also gives you the opportunity to play even less (something I would not advice btw) Wasteland, and get a even more resilient manabase.

Guys, I feel sad... A upcoming new set and again nothing to help our deck... I am really hoping that january 19th (if I'm not mistaken) will bring some good news (but of course this is just me daydreaming)

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I also agree. Rishadan Port is not as good as it was.

Wasteland, a very good number is 3 (4 is also ok, specially if mono red), and if you have access to Goblin Settler, PERFECT! And i also agree, that Wasteland nowadays if for THAT special card or that special moment of the game.

Rishadan Port can be very useful, but nowadays almost every deck is cheaper than ours so will be crippled, and almost everyone plays with removal of some king to get rid of Lackey or another starting threat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrblueduck

Won a daily a few days ago with this list: Been doing well with it locally as well.

List

Several of these cards, and a good portion of the SB is adjustable depending on what you are seeing.

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Congrats on the finish!
How do you feel about Gempalm Incinerator against the U/R Delver match up?
What's your sideboard plan against storm decks?