[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

ah i see. don't play that guy!

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Originally Posted by MDHackbert

Why so few Deeds?

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With the type of CA you put out, you don't really need them, spot removal alone is enough.

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

I have always liked the idea of playing a clean GB list, I'll try it.
The one thing that I'd do though is playing primeval and or grave titans, maybe thrag or something like finks for life gain? I'd cut meren and the chameleon.
The list seems threat light, although I'm well aware that tracker becomes scary fast. I am playing a 3 trackers list now, just testing, the thing is that yes they become huge, but the scare of a top deck ad makes me want to have a "real" bomb that can 180^ the board and dies to stp only (primeval would fetch 2t in that mu). In gb grave titan is the very best available imo

E. I see that you play dark confidant, maybe titans means that I'd play a whole different deck [emoji1]

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Dark Confidant is really, really strong if you mind the rest of your curve. It gets absurd with SDT, it's just as broken as Courser/SDT is, and Courser/Bob/SDT is even better than that.

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Originally Posted by Brael

Dark Confidant is really, really strong if you mind the rest of your curve. It gets absurd with SDT, it's just as broken as Courser/SDT is, and Courser/Bob/SDT is even better than that.

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I don't doubt that at all, but at that point you are playing a different kind of nic fit, not necessarily worse or better, just different and that is completely fine.
The thing is that playing gb I really really feel the lack of path(/stp), smashers lages gurmags become a problem fast if you only have decay in hand, and one can play so many 2 mana removal spells (ad + edict) in the deck..

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

I don't doubt that at all, but at that point you are playing a different kind of nic fit, not necessarily worse or better, just different and that is completely fine.
The thing is that playing gb I really really feel the lack of path(/stp), smashers lages gurmags become a problem fast if you only have decay in hand, and one can play so many 2 mana removal spells (ad + edict) in the deck..

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I feel like trading power and velocity for a more sturdy manabase is not stronger. I could get behind lessening the splash in a 3 color variant but I firmly believe the 3rd color is a necessity.

All G/B needs is a Baleful Strix equivalent - a way of making a creature that blocks flyers and has deathtouch, that doesn't cost you a card. A G/B Nekrataal would probably do the job just fine too, as long as it costs 4 mana or less.

Edit:
http://i.imgur.com/o9QVEnd.jpg

This seems like it might be playable in Atraxa as a 1-of. Ramps in the early game, pumps your tokens in the late game.

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Originally Posted by Ricardio

I feel like trading power and velocity for a more sturdy manabase is not stronger. I could get behind lessening the splash in a 3 color variant but I firmly believe the 3rd color is a necessity.

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I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I have infact been reducing the white splash. Gb is very fun, but the lack of path is back breaking

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Originally Posted by Navsi

Edit:
http://i.imgur.com/o9QVEnd.jpg

This seems like it might be playable in Atraxa as a 1-of. Ramps in the early game, pumps your tokens in the late game.

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Interesting. Pumping the tokens from combat walkers could be nice. Playing 6cmc Sorin or Elspeth a turn earlier could also be pretty back-breaking.

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

I don't doubt that at all, but at that point you are playing a different kind of nic fit, not necessarily worse or better, just different and that is completely fine.
The thing is that playing gb I really really feel the lack of path(/stp), smashers lages gurmags become a problem fast if you only have decay in hand, and one can play so many 2 mana removal spells (ad + edict) in the deck..

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No argument that it's different, but I think it plays well.

I do have a few answers to various large creatures though. For example, I threw in a Maze of Ith as a Crop Rotation target, between the two cards you effectively have 2 Maze's which can blank any large creature like Angler or Smasher.

This is where Bob shines too, you can pretty easily take 2 for 1's when you have enough CA to make up for it.

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Originally Posted by Ricardio

I feel like trading power and velocity for a more sturdy manabase is not stronger. I could get behind lessening the splash in a 3 color variant but I firmly believe the 3rd color is a necessity.

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You could be right. A light splash of a third color is effectively free which is how I've always justified a third color. Going from 1 mana removal to 2 mana removal is a very real cost though to say nothing of exile vs destroy.

It's something that I think warrants testing though.

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Originally Posted by Navsi

This seems like it might be playable in Atraxa as a 1-of. Ramps in the early game, pumps your tokens in the late game.

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I've felt for awhile that a combat walker build is best as Junk. This just reinforces that opinion further. I haven't quite figured out how to build it yet. The curve is really ugly.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

What I hear is "More Trackers!". BG Landfall FTW? Fetch into land into Crop Rotation into fetch into land for 4*n clues seems like good value. Also seems like a good deal of durdling though. And opening yourself up to stuff like AD.

Oh, while you're at it you could add Explorations and Courser of Kruphix(es). That would allow you to power through your deck like there's no tomorrow.

Be careful w/ Crop Rotation though.

I'm not sold on the idea just yet.

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I like Crop Rotation more as a general utility card. It's card advantage, removal, or ramp depending on what you need at the time. A risky card to cast, but very versatile.

I'm not sure about landfall. Courser and Tracker are the only cards with a landfall type ability that I've found to be strong enough. It's something I've looked into a couple times and there's just not much else there. I think a Tracker heavy build could work with Surrak, but I haven't found enough other support for it yet but it's something I'm keeping my eyes open for. Surrak especially interests me because my league results drilled home the point to me that my current build is too slow. I've got the CA/Removal but I don't have the speed and I need to do something about that. My recent GB build addresses the speed issue somewhat, but I want to do more on that front.

All too often due to all the searching/tutoring with this deck I feel as if I'm on the 2-0 or bust plan to win a match. This is probably due to my shift to smaller creatures and unsuccessful attempt to add a combo kill with Mentor, but I think I can address that by making the bigger threats more potent. Nissa is great here, she's basically Reality Smasher.

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Originally Posted by square_two

Interesting. Pumping the tokens from combat walkers could be nice. Playing 6cmc Sorin or Elspeth a turn earlier could also be pretty back-breaking.

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In this scenario you'd play the enchantment quite early, meaning you don't have any tokes to boost. You know what other card(s) allow you to play 6 CMC walkers a turn earlier..? DRS, STE. And both of those, you can GSZ for.

@Brael: You can also go with a single GSZ'able fattie as your win con (and mayhaps accept that you can't hardcast it). Atraxa would be fine (and also plays well w/ PWs) for that purpose. Or, if you want to stick to BG - Verdurous Gearhulk. 8/8, trample is nothing to sneeze at. But I might just be a bit of a GSZ addict. Consistency FTW and all that nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

@Brael: You can also go with a single GSZ'able fattie as your win con (and mayhaps accept that you can't hardcast it). Atraxa would be fine (and also plays well w/ PWs) for that purpose. Or, if you want to stick to BG - Verdurous Gearhulk. 8/8, trample is nothing to sneeze at. But I might just be a bit of a GSZ addict. Consistency FTW and all that nonsense.

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That's the role I had in mind for Chameleon Colossus. 8/8, potentially 12/12, harder to kill, beats cards like Angler, and can't be chumped by Strix, also uncounterable off Cavern. No trample though.

I don't think we can reliably look at Chameleon Colossus as a wincon when Young Pyromancer is in the format.

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Originally Posted by Navsi

I don't think we can reliably look at Chameleon Colossus as a wincon when Young Pyromancer is in the format.

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Are decks back to running 4 Pyromancer MB? My only experience with this is what people do locally and it's never more than 2 there, and only in a couple of decks at that. Plus you should have removal to stop the Pyromancer. Deed, Pulse, Decay the source of the tokens, Therapy their hand, and if all else fails, Golgari Charm in the SB.

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Originally Posted by Brael

Are decks back to running 4 Pyromancer MB? My only experience with this is what people do locally and it's never more than 2 there, and only in a couple of decks at that. Plus you should have removal to stop the Pyromancer. Deed, Pulse, Decay the source of the tokens, Therapy their hand, and if all else fails, Golgari Charm in the SB.

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Maybe it's just my local meta. I do think you want your finishing threats to be more evasive than Colossus, and either fly or have trample. I could see Colossus being a lot better if you ran a Kessig Wolf Run for your Primeval Titan to fetch.

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Originally Posted by Navsi

Maybe it's just my local meta. I do think you want your finishing threats to be more evasive than Colossus, and either fly or have trample. I could see Colossus being a lot better if you ran a Kessig Wolf Run for your Primeval Titan to fetch.

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But you need a way to produce RED !

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Originally Posted by Ralf

But you need a way to produce RED !

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You're in two colours, it's not like you don't have the manabase slots free for a Mountain or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Navsi

You're in two colours, it's not like you don't have the manabase slots free for a Mountain or whatever.

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But at that point you are adding red to a deck which main purpose was to be straight GB in the first place. And let's face it, if you don't play sneak attack red is definitely weaker than white

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

But at that point you are adding red to a deck which main purpose was to be straight GB in the first place. And let's face it, if you don't play sneak attack red is definitely weaker than white

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If you want to stay in GB then, you'll need to find a different source of evasion I guess. Rancor?

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Originally Posted by Navsi

All G/B needs is a Baleful Strix equivalent - a way of making a creature that blocks flyers and has deathtouch, that doesn't cost you a card. A G/B Nekrataal would probably do the job just fine too, as long as it costs 4 mana or less.

Edit:
http://i.imgur.com/o9QVEnd.jpg

This seems like it might be playable in Atraxa as a 1-of. Ramps in the early game, pumps your tokens in the late game.

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So it's a legendary enchantment that fractured powerstone only for PW and pumps dudes, that are in play when you cast it, at sorcery speed.

zealous persecution seems infinitely better from a pumping perspective as well as spear of heliod and glorious anthem. And I there are about 50+ more viable mana ramp options. New =/= automatically competitive viable.

Did you fall on your keyboard?