Coming to Europe tomorrow. Want to say hi to the Siege Rhino Master?
Brussels Sunday 18th 9-5
Prague Dec 18th evening to Dec 22nd morning
Vienna Dec 22 afternoon to Dec 26th morning
Munich December 26th afternoon to Dec 30th morning
-Matt
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Coming to Europe tomorrow. Want to say hi to the Siege Rhino Master?
Brussels Sunday 18th 9-5
Prague Dec 18th evening to Dec 22nd morning
Vienna Dec 22 afternoon to Dec 26th morning
Munich December 26th afternoon to Dec 30th morning
-Matt
I think I like your Kessig idea more than Rancor. Rancor can't be tutored, and there's a huge consistency difference in running card+1x tutor vs just the card. Rancor is an easier board state to solve for the opponent too, given the option my natural inclinations lean towards Kessig because it's more versatile. Also, sometimes just the threat of an activation is all you need to swing a weak board, while Rancor doesn't have quite the same ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
It's much more than a single Mountain, it either requires a substantial commitment to generating red mana, or it requires two tutors (including fetches) in order to get Kessig+Mountain. If you go with my 1 of Crop Rotation plan that leaves you with 5 red sources (4 fetch+Mountain) from land, 2 from DRS, 1 from STE, and either 4 from Verdant Catacombs (if Taiga) or 4 from Explorer (if Mountain) and then +1 more from Crop Rotation when you draw Kessig. So optimistically 13 sources. 13 sources is ok all things considered, but I would be hesitant to do it, it just feels fragile to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
For a similar number of hoops jumped through, and a mere 1 mana more in activation costs you can get Rogues Passage. Though unlike Kessig which can threaten to pump if not blocked, or trample if blocked the Passage has to be paid up front which means you probably don't get to swing for 8 unblockable.
Maybe Kessig would work as a sideboard option? I've never been afraid to throw lands into my SB. I'm a little concerned about two more colorless lands though (Mountain+Kessig), the BG build leans heavier on Abrupt Decay and an early colorless land when you're trying to Decay is a bit of a problem. Maybe it would have to be Taiga/Kessig with a SB plan of taking out a colorless+basic to bring this combo in.
I'll think on it more, I'm on vacation for the next few weeks but perhaps I can get in some Xmage games to test.
Edit: Some quick thinking leads me to think Taiga is superior to Mountain here. Tagia is better in your opening hand, and slots over Bayou 3 more easily than a Mountain slots in over a basic. I think it's still a SB plan though, where you can bring in more DRS to supplement, but I see where it could work. I'm going to goldfish a few hands in that configuration.
Edit again: Goldfishing done, had some fantastic hands and Kessig was too clunky. The problem seemed to be similar to that of hasted vs non hasted creatures. Kessig basically doesn't have haste, it's mana intensive enough that if you tutor for it, there's going to be a 1 turn delay before you can really derive any benefit from it. The stuff I'm looking to Crop Rotation in can benefit that turn though like Phyrexian Tower (the best thing to Crop Rotation for I've found) or interaction like Maze of Ith. This is a problem because casting Crop Rotation carries substantial risk, you really need it to deliver a payoff right away.
I'm up for testing the Rancor plan too, but I can't figure out the cut.
Also, I don't know how I never fell in love with the Tribe Elder/Meren combo before, but man is it potent.
Nyx Fit is a blast. Now I'm starting to be unsure of what to take to Louisville.
Just had a game where I hid a Doomwake and Courser under Parallax Wave, next turn got back Eidolon of Blossoms with Starfield, play a Blossoms from hand, attack(!) with the 4/4 Parallax Wave, sacrifice it to Phyrexian Tower after combat to draw 4 and wipe the opponent's board.
Also had a game against lands where I was able to Fetters their Thespian's Stage which gave me time for my enchantment army to win :laugh:
I've put Humility in the main, no Living Plane anywhere (seems too gimicky), added a Decay to the side. So far it's fine. Humility + Starfield on the board, recurring a simple Dead Weight every turn, will win you games. I'm considering having a taiga instead of Savannah, and putting Blood Moon in the side. So far no real answers for land stuff.
Living Plane is a pretty good answer to land stuff. It turns Deed into Armageddon and Doomwake into one-sided Armageddon, while making Miracles want to not Terminus you. Give it a test sometime.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
Brought Sneak Fit to a local 1K today. Did not go well. Matches were Miracles with counterspells and council's judgment main (1-1 draw), Burn (0-2 loss despite playing Thragtusk and recurring with Meren), Lands (2-1 win thanks to Sneak Attack and my opponent not getting his own lands off a Vet trigger), and 4-color Tezzerator (1-2 loss) with T1 chalice in 2 out of 3 games. I'm certain I didn't play optimally but I wasn't punting left and right either... frustrating.
Gaze of Granite (not included today) might have won me the match against Tezzerator and Meren felt bad most of the day; other than that I still think the list is great and not in need of much other than metagame appropriate sideboard tuning - Arian's list gives both inevitability thanks to Primeval Titan and quick free wins thanks to Sneak Attack.
There's a ton of Lands and Aluren in my meta - I've asked before but not gotten a ton of feedback - how do you all like to sideboard / mulligan for those matchups in particular?
Last question, I noted 2 hands where I didn't know whether to keep or ship the hand, so I'd like to ask y'all what you would do in my place (and why):
Against unknown opponent on the play: Sidisi, Punishing Fire, Pernicious Deed, Cabal Therapy, Sneak Attack, Bayou, Taiga
Against Tezzerator on the play: Mountain, Mountain, Grove, Deed, Sneak, Witness, Top
I am working on a list in Jund colors including Scapeshift (and Burning Wish). It looks like this:
//Lands
4 Badlands
1 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Wooded Foothills
//Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Garruk Relentless
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Karn Liberated
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
3 Sensei's Divining Top
//Creatures
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Primeval Titan
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 From the Ashes
SB: 2 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Scapeshift
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
I love the Planeswalkers and I can bring them on quite often. Garruk as a flexible creature Tutor. Chandra is also very flexible. Either she provides a clock or draws Cards. And Karn. Karn allows so many plays and always the plan b "restart everything".
With my 10 mountains I can have 4 without destroying the 18 damage of the Valakut. Otherwise I have Primeval Titan which turns into an Inferno Titan quite fast.
I've said my peace on Meren. I'll still include her, but I understand if others are not receiving the same dividends from her that I get.Quote:
Originally Posted by gth842s
I haven't played vs Aluren, but I presume it basically just relies on solid Therapies, parking a Deed in play and knowing when to pop it, and working towards some spaghetti breakfast.
As far as Lands goes, I haven't found it to be a particularly troublesome matchup. We have interact with 2x Deathrite main + 2-3 Surgicals sideboard, and they really, really passionately dislike annihilator 6. Just interact with them wherever you can, ideally get Thragtusk out early and try to get over 20 life, and work towards assembling Sneak + nonsense asap.
I'd keep both of those hands. There's a chance that they don't work out, obviously, but the upside is high on both and you're unlikely to mull into something better in each respective case.
Sneakyfit runs Blood Moon like a champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Perhaps. I don't own Blood Moons, and I don't particularly see a burning need to acquire them. They're probably a reasonable choice, but not one that I really want to invest in. What I've been doing has been working for me, so I'm loathe to make changes for the sake of changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I spent maybe two hours looking for something to replace Meren with last night and concluded she's the best we've got until WotC, in their continuous quest to staple powerful spells to expensive creatures, prints a better option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Aluren is challenging because a lot of builds play their game very similarly to Shardless right up until they combo off, which demands different types of cards / strategies. I've also kept up deed and popped it but lost because my opponent had sandbagged multiple ways to return / rebuy creatures - they just kept on doing their thing through the deed. It's often important to try to get multiple deeds or an extra Decay around.
@ Bobmans, I actually threw two blood moon into the side for Eldrazi and Lands last night. I'll report on how that works for me as soon as I get a chance to try it out in a local weekly.
As far as those hands go, I kept both. The first one turned out to be burn and he had kept a swingy but situationally amazing THREE Price of Progress. It didn't help that my next land drawn was Badlands, at which point he dealt me 18 damage in three spells :-\. I won off of the second hand (against Tezzerator) in a very grindy game that saw him recurring Ensnaring Bridge via Academy Ruins. He couldn't handle the sacrifice and re-casting of an Inferno Titan per turn, however. That was a weird deck but we may see more of it going forward - Breya, Etherium Shaper + Sword and Foundry Combo + Value Artifacts + Tezzeret, Smuggler's Copter, Daretti, and Dack Fayden with a sideboard Leyline of the Void and Helm of Obedience package (which is how he got me game three for the match - I was 1 mana shy of sneaking in Emrakul but oh well).
Played my GB build a bit more, Sakura-Tribe Elder + Liliana, the Last Hope is quite a combo. I would say the pairing is as powerful as Veteran Explorer/Cabal Therapy. And of course, Liliana is a great way to kill your Vet too if you need to.
I was very skeptical of Liliana to start, but now I'm a big fan.
Going by goldfishing, I'm able to play roughly half the deck by turn 7. That's more or less an acceptable speed. Since it's only a 1 card switch I'm not sure how much I can really attribute to it, but I'm very happy with 3 SDT instead of 4. The deck still has a lot of CA and filtering but that one fewer SDT is resulting in having a lot more mana available for mana sinks that affect the current turn rather than future turns.
Colossus is playing out ok too, I would encourage others to give it a try. It has some natural evasion and resiliency to removal and it hits really really freaking hard.
Here's the sequence I played out in my most recent game:
Opening hand - 2x Veteran Explorer, Bayou, Forest, Verdant Catacombs, Chameleon Colossus, Crop Rotation
T1 - Forest, Vet
T2 - Draw Abrupt Decay, play Bayou, play Vet, Crop Rotation Forest for Phyrexian Tower, Tower Vet #2 for Forest, Forest (giving me GGBB), play Colossus. Swing 1
T3 - Draw SDT, Tower Vet for Swamp/Forest, play Catacombs getting Bayou. Swing Colossus for 16.
That's not quite a kill, but it's pretty darn close with an SDT/Decay still in hand. I think that opening is good enough though to show off the power of Crop Rotation for Tower, and for Colossus.
I can see where people still might not like Colossus, but it's a solid 4 drop in my opinion. I'm in love with the Vet/Crop Rotation openings, and those really like having potent 4 drops to grab.
From the ashes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Liliana the Last Hope is pure gas vs matchups where they cannot pressure our walkers via combat and vs matchups where her +1 kills off a dork or critter. I will rank her right after Nissa Vital Force. Being running 1 Nissa and 1 Lily Last Hope for quite some time now and loving the pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
Updated list would be amazing :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
Think this is it, or very close:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
22 lands
-3 Towers
-3 Forest, 2 Plains, 1 Swamp
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman/Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Academy Rector
1 Courser
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Doomwake Giant
2 Top
1 Sylvan Library
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Dead Weight
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Sterling Grove
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Parallax wave
1 Humility
2 Starfield of Nyx
3 Pernicious Deed
side:
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Seal of Primordium
Had something besides Curse in the side but I can't think of what it was. I'm avoiding Curse online due to the bug with Rector. Playing in paper I really would love having both Humility and Curse available.
I am very impressed with Faith's Fetters and Parallax Wave. Fetters can hit so many things...DRS, walkers, Thespian's Stage, scary creatures. The lifegain can be very relevant. I'd enjoy having a second available but unfortunately I think it just costs a tad too much to warrant. Parallax buys you time to find a Deed and can also save your important creatures from removal. Haven't been able to do the infinite flicker tricks yet.
Unsure about the Spirit of the Labyrinths...might become a 3rd Leyline of Sanctity and something else.
I brought Sneaky Fit to a local Legacy tournament with 40-ish players this Sunday, one with higher stakes than the weekly tournaments that I sometimes report from. I chose this deck since it's fun and can end games quickly. I've only went 2-2 and 2-1-1 in the local weekly events but losses have often been infuriatingly close so I thought it'd be worth another try. All cards in the maindeck are from your posted versions in this thread but I've been changing things in the sideboard to my liking.
I hope some of you'll enjoy reading this like I enjoy reading all of your reports posted here. Sorry for any lazy writing, this is mostly written on the phone, and be aware that I took very few notes so games are not reported in great detail. This report became quite lenghty but still I haven't touched many areas or gone into great detail about the games...
Regarding expected meta I thought there might be a couple of Lands decks, Reanimators, Delver variants, Miracles (usually ending up in the top 8), Death and Taxes, Deathblade and a few Infect and Storm decks. I decided to play a third graveyard interaction card, a Leyline since it can win games singlehandedly. I also changed Blood Moons into From the Ashes since they have the advantage vs Lands that coupled with a surgical they can win you the game while a Blood Moon can be dealt with in an uncomplicated fashion using Krosan Grip (which I expect as a 4 of in post-sb games). Another advantage is that you get lands back upon resolution and don't have to worry about playing duals. The disadvantage is of course being one turn/mana slower which can matter a lot, and Krosan Grip can actually be dealt with by Therapy (and followed up by a Surgical it gives basically the same permanent answer as Surgical on Depths or Stage.
I played the following list.
Maindeck: 61 cards
Creatures, Planeswalker: 16 cards
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Thragtusk
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Inferno Titan
1 Primeval Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells: 23 cards
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Punishing Fire
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Sneak Attack
Lands: 22 cards
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
Sideboard: 15 cards
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Pithing Needle
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Leyline of the Void
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 From the Ashes
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Reclamation Sage
The Golgari Charm is there because, obvious as it may be, it's a two mana sweeper (DnT, Elves, TNN, Pyromancer, Infect). Instant speed is a bonus (relevant vs Rishadan Ports), so is the enchantment removal mode. The Diabolic Edicts are there primarily so you can survive a Marit Lage attack and get to Surgical Depths, and Eldrazi primarily. But they are also useful vs Goyf decks. I decided to try the Carpets again, have been playing them back and forth the last 3-4 years, but in a list with three 6-drops, three 5-drops, one 15-drop and a list that wants 5-6 mana to play and activate Sneak Attack during the same turn - they are probably better than in my other lists that tend to have a mana curve finishing with two 5 drops (Batterskull and Sigarda) or using Entomb+Reanimate to cheat things into play for 2 mana.
As I comment on the sideboard now I wonder if it would be a good idea to max out on the strong hate and get rid of stuff that adds some incremental value but that the maindeck already deals with. For example the two Diabolic Edicts could be two Blood Moons, since it's great vs the same decks that it's really in there for (Lands, Eldrazi, perhaps Goyf decks too). Also the Reclamation Sage giving access to GSZ-able removal could be another Leyline. I may try it that way next time.
R1: Death and Taxes 0-2 (0-1)
He wins a drawn out G1 where I play Punishing Fire on my own Veteran in response to the exile effect from a Palace Jailer and then realize a few seconds too late that I needed to fetch a Mountain off the trigger to be able to return and replay the P.Fire on his Stoneforge that he equips the Jitte to next turn. With counters on the Jitte I lose the game since I can't hit it with P.Fire, rather frustrating.
In G2 I have a great start with Therapy + Veteran into a potential Deed. I save the Deed in my hand, waiting for him to commit some resources to the board. Instead he Rishadan Ports me twice every turn keeping me off green and black mana also drawing three Wastelands which are used on my duals. Sanctum Prelate on two stops my Golgari Charm that I had just drawn, I was waiting to untap and use it in response to the Ports to clear the board of a Revoker on SDT and a Mother. I have a hand full of removal in terms of Deed, Deluge, Decay, and Punishing Fire but I never get a fetch or black dual again over 7 or so turns.
Sb:
Out: 1 Deathrite, 1 Nissa, 1 Primeval Titan, 1 Bellower
In: 1 Golgari Charm, 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Reclamation Sage, 1(?) Diabolic Edict
R2: Dredge 0-2 (0-2)
G1: He kills me on his t2, thanks to Flamekin Zealot.
G2: I mulligan to 5 and settle for a Thoughtseize, SDT and three lands. Take his Breakthrough with the t1 Thoughtseize but he can activate Cephalid Colliseum after a few turns using LED to get threshold. I didn't draw any relevant interaction until the last turn but I couldn't both top, Veteran, Sneak and sneak in Emrakul during the last turn. Could have kept mulliganing into interaction but t1 Seize and an active top seemed more likely to end up successful to me.
Sb:
Out: 2 Decay, 1 Nissa, 1 Primeval Titan, 1 Bellower, [Sidisi and a Sneak Attack?]
In: 1 Leyline, 2 Surgical, 1 Golgari Charm, [1 Duress], 1 Thoughtseize, 1 Diabolic Edict (not sure what I boarded out for it)
Both first matchups felt very winnable, but of course they're losable too. I had lands players on both sides of me during R2, nice to have dodged those. Anyway, at 0-2 I was very unlikely to get to top8 but coldn't make up my mind to drop so I continued. Last time I joined I ended up winning after starting with 1-2.
R3: Elves 2-0 (1-2)
G1: He has a slow start, i kill a few elves with P.Fire, he gets a Leovold into play and I sneak in Emrakul ftw.
G2: Lots of removal and discard get there.
Sb:
Out: 1 Nissa, 1 Bellower, 1 Deathrite
In: 1 Thoughtseize, 1 Duress, 1 Golgari Charm
R4: Grixis Delver 2-0 (2-2)
G1: I think I therapy for FoW, get threatened by Delver, Leovold and Gurmag but manage to ramp into a Deed for seven, then an Emrakul removed his permanents.
G2: My notes say he plays Gurmag and Therapies my Thragtusk just before I can cast it to stabilize and Primeval Titan; Volraths Stronghold brings Thragtusk back which felt like a game winner (both the Tusk and Stronghold actually). And then the Titan is replayed..
Sb:
Out: 1 Nissa, 1 Bellower, 1 Deathrite then one more card, Sneak Attack or Veteran or the second Deathrite
In: 2 Carpets, 1 REB, 1 Golgari Charm
R5: Eldrazi 2-1 (3-2)
G1: I Therapy for Thought-Knot, hit none but take a Smasher on the flashback. He goes t3 Sower into Ugin activations for more Smashers. I think Emrakul is not too far away when I lose but he had enough permanents anyway for it not to have been enough.
G2 & 3: I'm afraid I don't remember the details and can't tell from my notes, I win one of the games by playing a t4 From the Ashes. [Oh yeah, Nissa stabilizes in one game.]
Sb:
Out: 2 P.Fire, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1(?) Deathrite, 1(?) Veteran or Cabal T or Bellower
In: 2 From the Ashes, 2 Diabolic Edict, 1 Reclamation Sage
R6: UWr Stoneblade 2-0 (4-2)
G1: Had a starting hand with Sneak Attack and Emrakul. I open with Top and he with two Flooded Strands. I think he fetches and plays Stoneforge getting not sure which equipment. Think I play t3 Therapy for FoW seeing Pyroblast, Flusterstorm, StP, Ponder, Snapcaster. Looking good for a t4 Sneak Attack, he played Karakas and probably pondered. T5 I consider if there's anything to ruin a sneaked Emmy, with two red sources I could play through the Karakas.. I realize that if he has pondered into a Clique he can Clique in response to my first activation of sneak, forcing me to sneak it again which he can then Karakas back into my hand and hit with the Clique effect still on the stack. I play a Steve and sacrifice it for the flashback Therapy naming and hitting a Clique. Emrakul does his thing and Veteran and Witness sneaked in for the last three damage next turn.
G2: double Carpets let me play a magical Christmas land game. T2 Therapy revealed a Back to Basics and Batterskull of relevance. I had a Decay for his Back to Basics around t3, could have turned ugly otherwise since I had all duals (if he had managed to remove the carpets). He had misboarded by keeping a pyroblast and I think something else too.
Sb:
Out: 1-2 Veterans, 0-1 Deathrites, 1 Bellower, 1 P.Fire
In: 2 Carpets, 1 Reclamation Sage, 1 REB
So I ended up with 4-2 and was due to tie breakers last of the 12 pointers, I think the first one made it into top 8. I had lots of fun anyway and as I said the two lost games were definitely winnable [matchups]. I think the deck is worth another few chances, I'm still moving things around in the sideboard so that's probably where most of the work is. I think the slot I would change for experimenting would be the Woodland Bellower, Primeval Titan sneaked in once let's you play all cards in the deck except for Emrakul and gives you fantastic board control with the Punishing Fires while also ensuring your future topdecks through the Stronghold. I think Primeval Titan seems much stronger than the Bellower.
Hows the rewrite on the primer going? I'm free for a couple days, if anything is needed.
Also, I'm seriously in love with Crop Rotation. This card does so much work. I'm finding in my GB build that Cavern doesn't have enough to work with at 13 humans (I've always used 14 hits as a rule of thumb), but I'm looking for another land to go in the slot, Cavern can always sit SB if I want to beef myself up against Chalice. I'm thinking about Tower of the Magistrate. It's ETB untapped, and could be a pretty good tutor hit against decks like D&T and X-Blade.
The verdict is still out on Ash Barrens. I like the ability to fight through Blood Moon, but that's about all it does, a fetchland is better in pretty much every other regard.
Alternatively, 7 basics for GB might be right. 6 has felt like too few on several occasions.
From playing it a bit, GB consistently churns through 28 cards in the deck by turn 5, including fetches and all that. And about half the time with 3 SDT's you'll also see an extra 5-10. So I think it's still accomplishing the SE goal of digging like a blue deck.
What does Tower of the Magistrate protect you from, outside of Jitte -1/-1 counters, SoFaI triggers, and chumping a Phyrexian Revoker? Seems narrow unless I'm missing something.
Target the opponents creature, it pops off their equipment. It's still narrow, but it might be useful enough. The alternative is a 7th basic (5th Forest) in the slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobNC
Just pulling together recent / current lists from people, and/or grabbing links to any kind of significant finishes (anything top 16/32 in 40/100+ person events) would be ideal. I haven't had a ton of time to work on the updated text for the primer, but once I really sit down and blast through it, it won't take me long. The time consuming part of the process is the data acquisition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael