Printable View
Banning Brainstorm would be insane, but if it happened Legacy would become combo vs anti-combo. Most midrange decks would cease to exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Banning Dig doesn't matter, since it isn't an important card. It is good, but losing it doesn't change the deck at all.
Any of the other three getting banned wipes miracles out and the deck as we know it is done.
This topic has been discussed a lot in the past already.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcosiem
http://www.eternalcentral.com/there-...y-sideboarding
Shardless BUG is totally different from BUG Delver, despite having the same color.
BUG Delver is more manageable than Shardless BUG.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcosiem
Against BUG Delver, the only card you *really* need to worry about is Abrupt Decay, though a DRS left unchecked can deal a decent amount of damage. Everything else you don't really care about because we have "infinite" board wipes are far as they are concerned. Don't be afraid to use CB as a UU Hymn to Tourach because they still do need to answer it with Abrupt Decay so often they will FoW if they can't remove it quickly enough. And that's fine for us. We love when our opponents play with very few cards in hand. Post board you want to bring in Blood Moon and Wear/Tear effects because you will see Null Rod/Pithing Needle, also bring in REB effects. I advocate keeping some number of CB in (no less than 3) but also bringing in stuff like Clique just to overload their Decays and pressure them. If you have Pithing Needle in your board, it's also a decent bring-in to name DRS.
Shardless BUG is a control mirror so prepare for a grindy MU with lots of Jace v Jace action. Keep in mind they are very counter-light (often they'll only have 4x FoW as their countermagic package) so an early Entreat (for even just 2) often just kills them. They do run Abrupt Decay as well, and can cascade into it which is annoying, but not the end of the world. Cards to look out from them are: Liliana, Hymn, Decay (can't play around this one, so jam your CB so they have to spend the Decay on that and not a 4/4 Angel), Ancestral Visions. CB is weaker here because their mana curve is all over the place, with more 2 and 3 drops than BUG Delver, meaning CB doesn't do *that* much. Post board here I would take out CBs and bring in Blood Moon (they do run basics so this one is 50/50 depending on how many basics you see them fetching game 1), Wear/Tear because you will see Null Rod/Pithing Needle/Sylvan Library (if it's not already in the main), Cliques to go over their creatures and apply pressure, as well as ripping cards out of their hand, and maybe Venser (if you have it) to bounce the cascaded spells and problematic permanents. REB effects are also strong here because it kills 2 of their creatures as well as stopping their Visions, and killing Jace. Pithing Needle can name Liliana or DRS, and getting them to use one of their Decays on it means 1 less to worry about for an Angel. Basically, against Shardless we have to be the aggressor because after a certain point in the game, it'll be nearly impossible for either deck to win, thus leading to a draw.
Thanks for the reply. I'll definitely curve my approach to these statements. It was so frustrating yesterday at my local game store in Montgomery County, MD at Dream Wizards, where I faced some really talented players in FMN Legacy. Both Long brothers were there doing work and Jarvis Yu was there too. I had to play 3 Miracles out of 4 of my rounds, and 2 of them were Rob, and Jarvis. If anyone has ever played against them, they are pretty good. Especially Jarvis. I manage to tie with Jarvis, and beating Rob, making my revenge sweet when he beat me at SCG Baltimore IQ, who was standing in my way from a top 8 appearance.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
There is too much Miracles in the field, and matches are going longer than expected now. Is Monastery Mentor and Angel's a viable option in the main now? Do we play both? And why not?
Fortunately it doesn't matter. And likely won't in the near future.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
What are the two worst match-ups for miracle?
12-Post, Goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckerator
Kind of ironic that a deck filled mostly with creatures is considered one of the worst matchups for a deck with 4 Terminus and 4 Swords to Plowshares. Wait, why is Goblins such a bad matchup for Miracles?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Because Goblins player just needs to sand-bag a matron or a ringleader in his hand. Once you Terminus, it doesn't take much effort for Goblins to rebuild his board. All these Goblins are cast via Cavern or Vial-in. You have pretty much no interaction and CB is often a dead card. Some Goblins players like to skip Port and go for Settler + kiki to get rid of your lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
4 Terminus, 4 StP, 4 Mentor, 2+ Snapmage.
I disagree with Goblins being a bad matchup.
Who cares about Goblins, it's an irrelevant deck right now sitting in the back of our card collection. Miracles worst match ups are Mud, and Bug Delver.
Good luck having enough lands to cast all of those before you're run over by 3/3s thanks to lords. It's painfully obvious you've never played this MU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Mentor might make the MU a little easier, but, again, good luck having 3 usable mana on turn 3, and even if you do, good luck with your single Mentor as he stares down 3 Goblins, each with a relevant ability.
Wow this is so blatantly wrong it's not even funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcosiem
4 Mentor isn't typical in Miracles yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Goblins was a poor matchup previously.
Ok thanks :)
Summarised 12-Post, BUG Delver and MUD are Miracles worst matchups. Is that right?
I dont count Goblins because it isnt a relevant deck in todays magic.
Reformed Goblins player here(still bust the terrible green guys out on occasion for fun though). Miracles is pretty much a bye. Terminus just means I get to cast my ringleaders twice. Cavern, Lackey & Vial just ignore counterbalance. Turn 3 piledriver is victory 90% of the time.
Place us in front of combo though...
This is why I saw the light and sleeved up the tops.
No. dcosiem has issue against BUG Delver, that's his opinion alone, not the community's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckerator
If we see MU as (easier to hardest) bye - favorable - unfavorable - atrocious, then
BUG Delver (with or without stifle) - favorable
MUD - unfavorable
12 Post - atrocious
Goblin - atrocious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
The only card you listed that's good against goblins is Mentor, and IMO Mentor doesn't make matchup much better.
The Goblins matchup isn't fought on the axis you think it is. It's also not just bad it's abysmal.
Mentor might make it a little better... but I wouldn't count on it.
You have clearly never played the matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
I lost to goblins at the last SCG I was at (playing miracles). The goblins player was even on camera a couple times; if I remember correctly he destroyed Gerrad Fabiano on Camera. 12 post and goblins are the worst matchups. Merfolk is the next worst matchup for a similar reason to goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckerator
MUD and BUG delver are not that bad. MUD is 50-60% favored depending on their exact build and how bad the miracles player is at sideboarding. UB Tezzeret is much worse. Its basically MUD but instead of playing 20 cards that die to any removal in our deck, they play 8-10 must answer walkers and thopter/sword combo both of which beat us very fast and we cannot interact with easily.
BUG Delver is even 50-40% to vs miracles. Grixis, Shardless BUG or BURG delver are have much better miracles matchups. I'd gladly play against BUG delver all day.
Worst matchups:
12 post 95%
Goblins 80%
Merfolk 75%
UB Tezzeret 75%
Infect, Shardless, BURg, Grixis Control, MUD 50-60%
Pretty much everything else is even or favored.
12 Posts and MUD are the worst matchups ever: 9-1
Goblin and Merfolks are very bad 8-2
Cascade (no Team America), Grixis, Tezzeret are bad 7-3
Death and Taxes, Aggro Loam and Lands are hard 6-4
All the rest is playable 5-5