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Re: All B/R update speculation.
The argument against that is "The spirit of the list". That's something they say, not us. Theyhave made it known not only will they not break the list, but they will refrain from even trying to use loopholes to diminish the list. The part about this that sucks most is that they will not print Gold Boardered Duals that EDH players could use. Non tournament legal cards offered to the casual crowd who do not wish to proxy. There is nothing in the rules or the spirit that says you can't do that.
Barook, wtf? Where did you find that?
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Enlighten me that printing a card thats better then something on the list is considered to be a loophole?
There's a ton of stuff on that list thats irrelevant and not playable, there have been ton of cards printed that outperform a large section of the list.
So why would it be different if they printed a better True Dual ? I don't see how this is a loophole.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Because it's seen as printing the original card with a slight change to just get around the list. Officially, Snow Duals are not against the list, but they are seen by Wizards as a non starter because of the spirit of the list. To that same extent, printing "Skyshoud Island" as a strict upgrade to Tropical Island is seen by them internally as a no go.
I am not going to defend the list, their logic or their bull headed approach to their own stupidity. There was once a perfectly fine answer in the reprint policy in the form of Premium cards they closed up about 7 years back. They have their heart set on this course of action, regardless of what you or I think, that's how they see things and they have the final say.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
Of the Zendikar Expeditions, only Strip Mine was not legal in Legacy. I really thought you where kidding and having some fun, please tell me you don't really think this actually means anything.
Zendikar Expeditions aren't real Masterpieces, only retroactively.
CHECKMATE
HECKMATEC
ECKMATECH
CKMATECHE
KMATECHEC
MATECHECK
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lava Snacks
Zendikar Expeditions aren't real Masterpieces, only retroactively.
Ok, just want to make sure I have something clear, because online is not the easiest place to know for sure, you joking around or trolling? Because if your joking around, Meh. If your trolling, Meh.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
Ok, just want to make sure I have something clear, because online is not the easiest place to know for sure, you joking around or trolling? Because if your joking around, Meh. If your trolling, Meh.
To be fair, he is telling the truth:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lava Snacks
Debate me. Pro tip: You can't.
While I want it to be true, I can't see an unbanning in the near future of a card. A reprint in whatever golden layout, or other kind of layout, won't change that.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
Barook, wtf? Where did you find that?
Helene tweeted it.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
But if you ban Top, what would Storm use to filter against Miracles? ;)
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
If you ban top, my shitty tier two deck that plays top...is still gonna be shitty.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chatto
While I want it to be true, I can't see an unbanning in the near future of a card. A reprint in whatever golden layout, or other kind of layout, won't change that.
In his defense, if there's a prisoner to exchange for Top/Counterbalance/Terminus/Entreat, Twist is the most innocuous.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
btm10
In his defense, if there's a prisoner to exchange for Top/Counterbalance/Terminus/Entreat, Twist is the most innocuous.
I personally feel Recruiter is more so than Twist. What realistically would one do with Recruiter? Put it in a Goblin deck as a two of? So one deck gets a single card it won't even run as a playset?
And no, there will not be some odd food chain build, because if you want to run a creature combo deck like that, you play Blue in it and run shit you can cast from exile or you run Aluren and Leo.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lava Snacks
Strip Mine is not an Amonkhet Invocation.
Rekt bc. you didn't listen to pro tips.
It is, however, part of the Masterpiece series.
Check and mate.:rolleyes:
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darkenslight
It is, however, part of the Masterpiece series.
Check and mate.:rolleyes:
Duh, dem Masterpieces weren't even invented back then. Do you even IQ?
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
I personally feel Recruiter is more so than Twist. What realistically would one do with Recruiter? Put it in a Goblin deck as a two of? So one deck gets a single card it won't even run as a playset?
And no, there will not be some odd food chain build, because if you want to run a creature combo deck like that, you play Blue in it and run shit you can cast from exile or you run Aluren and Leo.
Honestly that card is so irrelevant I forgot it even existed.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
All this talk about the Spirit of the Reserved List has got me mentally rewriting a Rush song.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ronald Deuce
All this talk about the Spirit of the Reserved List has got me mentally rewriting a Rush song.
Invisible expansion sets crackle with life
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lava Snacks
Duh, dem Masterpieces weren't even invented back then. Do you even IQ?
According to WotC they did excist 'back then': The Masterpiece Series that began with Zendikar Expeditions continues with Kaladesh Inventions!. The were retroactively added, so they're real alright.
WotC also stated that Masterpiece cards can be played in any Limited format they're opened in and in any Constructed format in which the card is already legal, but gives no indication a Masterpiece can result in the unban of a certain card.
Really, please stop claiming things that aren't true. Yes, a card can be unbanned, but stating a card will be unbanned based on reprint alone is just false. I will not not lower myself to your standard, but please stop try to argue based on bad information.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chatto
I agree, but if they ever did a masterpiece Goblin Recruiter I would probably have an involuntary spasm from the "maybe what ifs" running through my head.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
Invisible expansion sets crackle with life
Scheming Demons dressed in wizardly guise,
Beating down the player base and scoffing at the wise?
Edit - yeah, I should just stay out of this silly thread.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Wizards probably thinks the off-color-pie Cranial Extraction for Artifacts is good enough hate against Sensei's Top.
But really though, how many black cards explicitly affect only artifacts? Like, 2? Gate to Phyrexia and something else from what I remember.
Cards that can destroy or nullify an opponent's artifact:
Gate to Phyrexia
Phyrexian Gremlins
Phyrexian Tribute
Timmerian Fiends
Shattered Dreams - probably the closest comparison
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chatto
I'm pleased that you correctly picked up on the super serious nature of my arguments. Magic is no place for frivolity.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
I was curious how the meta is shaking up after Aether Revolt and the release of Fatal Push & Walking Ballista, as well as the continued effect of recent cards like Leovold, Emissary of Trest.
No huge analysis, but I figured I'd post it. I don't at all invalidate smaller events and top 16/32 finishes but I was curious (partially because we already have analysis that factors in smaller events) about each deck's percentage of top 8 slots since Aether Revolt's release (3 months ago), only in 8-rounders and up, so 129 players+.
Winter Legacy 4Seasons; SCG Classic - Baltimore; Eternal Extravaganza 6; MKM Series 2017 Milan; Eternal Weekend 2017; SCG Open - Worcester; SCG Classic - Worcester = 56 slots
Miracles: 9 finishes (16.07%)
Elves: 5 finishes (8.93%)
Ad Nauseam Tendrils: 3 finishes (5.36%)
Czech Pile AKA 4-Color Control: 3 finishes (5.36%)
Death & Taxes: 3 finishes (5.36%)
Sneak & Show: 3 finishes (5.36%)
4-Color Delver: 2 finishes (3.57%)
Aggro Loam: 2 finishes (3.57%)
Eldrazi: 2 finishes (3.57%)
Grixis Delver: 2 finishes (3.57%)
Infect: 2 finishes (3.57%)
Mono-Red Sneak Attack: 2 finishes (3.57%)
Shardless BUG: 2 finishes (3.57%)
Team America: 2 finishes (3.57%)
U/G 12-Post: 2 finishes (3.57%)
Aluren: 1 finish (1.79%)
Big Eldrazi: 1 finish (1.79%)
Burn: 1 finish (1.79%)
Dark Bant: 1 finish (1.79%)
Food Chain: 1 finish (1.79%)
Goblins: 1 finish (1.79%)
OmniTell: 1 finish (1.79%)
Reanimator: 1 finish (1.79%)
The Epic Storm: 1 finish (1.79%)
U/R Control: 1 finish (1.79%)
U/R Delver: 1 finish (1.79%)
U/W Spirit Blade: 1 finish (1.79%)
56 decks, 27 different decks
67.86% with Brainstorm
No statement to make. Just sharing my time wasting.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Claymore
The "color pie" is a terrible excuse for poor attempts to isolate mechanics and capabilities into certain colors for reasons. Unless they're "blue" mechanics, in which case they now belong to every color except blue because of bans and for reasons. Unless that color is white, in which case it doesn't get any of those mechanics, but it gets to stop Magic from happening.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scott
I was curious how the meta is shaking up after Aether Revolt and the release of
Fatal Push &
Walking Ballista, as well as the continued effect of recent cards like
Leovold, Emissary of Trest.
No huge analysis, but I figured I'd post it. I don't at all invalidate smaller events and top 16/32 finishes but I was curious (partially because we already have analysis that factors in smaller events) about each deck's percentage of top 8 slots since Aether Revolt's release (3 months ago), only in 8-rounders and up, so 129 players+.
Winter Legacy 4Seasons; SCG Classic - Baltimore; Eternal Extravaganza 6; MKM Series 2017 Milan; Eternal Weekend 2017; SCG Open - Worcester; SCG Classic - Worcester = 56 slots
Miracles:
9 finishes (16.07%)
Elves:
5 finishes (8.93%)
Ad Nauseam Tendrils:
3 finishes (5.36%)
Czech Pile AKA 4-Color Control:
3 finishes (5.36%)
Death & Taxes:
3 finishes (5.36%)
Sneak & Show:
3 finishes (5.36%)
4-Color Delver:
2 finishes (3.57%)
Aggro Loam:
2 finishes (3.57%)
Eldrazi:
2 finishes (3.57%)
Grixis Delver:
2 finishes (3.57%)
Infect:
2 finishes (3.57%)
Mono-Red Sneak Attack:
2 finishes (3.57%)
Shardless BUG:
2 finishes (3.57%)
Team America:
2 finishes (3.57%)
U/G 12-Post:
2 finishes (3.57%)
Aluren:
1 finish (1.79%)
Big Eldrazi:
1 finish (1.79%)
Burn:
1 finish (1.79%)
Dark Bant:
1 finish (1.79%)
Food Chain:
1 finish (1.79%)
Goblins:
1 finish (1.79%)
OmniTell:
1 finish (1.79%)
Reanimator:
1 finish (1.79%)
The Epic Storm:
1 finish (1.79%)
U/R Control:
1 finish (1.79%)
U/R Delver:
1 finish (1.79%)
U/W Spirit Blade:
1 finish (1.79%)
56 decks, 27 different decks
67.86% with
Brainstorm
No statement to make. Just sharing my time wasting.
The new Eternal Masters 2 card back:
http://i64.tinypic.com/34dl9ms.jpg
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ronald Deuce
Unless that color is white, in which case it doesn't get any of those mechanics, but it gets to stop Magic from happening.
The tired mantra of those who do not enjoying playing against prison elements. :wink:
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crimhead
The tired mantra of those who do not enjoying playing against prison elements or combo decks :wink:
Fixed
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Well there aren't a lot of white cards seeing play in combo decks, so I'm pretty sure he was talking about lock pieces.
Combo seems to be generally less offensive than Prison. Maybe this is because Prison is harder on the fair decks; fair deck players being the biggest malcontents (and the least tolerant of powerful "unfair" strategies).
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
I was snarking a bit, but my point was less about which colors I like and more about how the features and mechanics of colors seem to stack up these days.
The design archetypes formerly placed in blue largely have stopped seeing print at a competitive cost-benefit ratio, and where they haven't (card advantage), those features have been shifted to other colors—green, black, and red. This isn't as obvious in the eternal formats because we've got access to older cards, but if you look at Modern, Standard, or Limited, the premier "blue" effects either are stronger in the other colors or they are outclassed. For example, bounce, which often equates to hard removal in the eternal formats, is outclassed by comparably priced (or cheaper) spot removal, and the length in turns of games in newer formats makes the weakness of bounce much more apparent than it is in Legacy. Countermagic also rarely sees print at a competitive cost, the exceptions being Spell Pierce and Spell Snare. In short, green has pretty much become the "blue" of Modern; with little effective countermagic and bounce in the format, green's focus on mana acceleration and the shift in card advantage effectively make it the bang-for-your-buck color that blue is in Legacy.
White's the outlier. Even in the eternal formats, it has virtually no card advantage or mana acceleration, and in newer formats that number drops to zero. In Modern, it's the least like the other colors in its design, and the focus is pretty squarely on prison (i.e., "stop[s] Magic from happening") effects, which the other colors don't have. There's some commonality between white, green, and red in token generation, but that's about it.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ronald Deuce
I was snarking a bit...
Yeah, I thought so. That's why I added the winky-smiley.
Too many people seem to think that's a legitimate criticism of certain decks. I play prison and combo exclusively - apparently I don't play MTG! :laugh:
You observations about the colour pie seem spot on.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
I wish they did more Oblation effects for white control/card advantage. I remember seeing a fake Elspeth that used it as a minus ability that got me excited.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
White actually has one of the best hard card advantage engines in the format. Tax/Rack. The issue is that these two cards are not exactly wonderful on their own.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
White actually has one of the best hard card advantage engines in the format. Tax/Rack. The issue is that these two cards are not exactly wonderful on their own.
The issue I think is once you start designing Land Tax/Tithe effects, the sort of "fair" effects based on your opponent's game state, you start getting dangerously close to Balance effects, right back into the stop Magic from happening camp. Sometimes they work well, Timely Reinforcements was good. They just need to find a way to fit in real cards drawn as part of the effects. Somehow.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PirateKing
The issue I think is once you start designing
Land Tax/
Tithe effects, the sort of "fair" effects based on your opponent's game state, you start getting dangerously close to
Balance effects, right back into the
stop Magic from happening camp. Sometimes they work well,
Timely Reinforcements was good. They just need to find a way to fit in real cards drawn as part of the effects. Somehow.
But Magic happens in my pants when I stop Magic from happening.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LOLWut
But Magic happens in my pants when I stop Magic from happening.
:laugh: I love Stax and classic prison decks as well, I wish they still had a place in current competition, I'm just saying from the no sharp corners walk don't run safety orange world of modern design, there is a place for white card advantage to be explored.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PirateKing
I wish they did more
Oblation effects for white control/card advantage. I remember seeing a fake Elspeth that used it as a minus ability that got me excited.
That's a blue spell now. Perilous Research
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but White has solid card advantage in the form of Recruiter and SFM, and Flickerwisp gives them extra mileage.
I have nothing against D&T, but it's a pretty strong deck. Is more white value really what Legacy wants?
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Like it or not, yes. All high powered decks are built around whatever value engine they can coble together.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
Like it or not, yes. All high powered decks are built around whatever value engine they can coble together.
I was referring to specifically white value cards. Also I might argue that decks like Eldrazi and D&T aren't really running an "engine".
Maybe what would be better is a boost for play styles that are less value and more synergy. Give Burn some love. Or Fish, Affinity. The last thing we need is for D&T to have a white equivalent of DRS, Leotard, or Jace. Throw a bone to something else.
