if these stats were correct, it wouldn't nake any sense to play Miracle...
Printable View
if these stats were correct, it wouldn't nake any sense to play Miracle...
Lands is pretty much a bye, even with zero GY hate in your deck and MUD and D&T really are not that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
The only matchups I feel are about even are D&T, RUG delver, BUG Delver, and Omnitell. The rest better than 50-50. Like maverick is 80-20, UWR delver is 80-20, Jund is 55-45, ANT is 60-40, Elves is 70-30, Dredge is 70-30, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
in my humble opinion shardless bug isn't as bad as it seems, they basically have no counterspells and they have 4 visions vs. our 2 reb +1 counterspell main, liliana is pretty hardly a menace on her own and all of their creatures are easily removable... with Dig and mentor this matchup became from 40-60 to 60-40.
That's what i get from my tests.
i found Team america to be a little harder even if it is still favourable because of the "Delver autopilot", maybe i feel more comfortable in playing grindy matchups...
MUD doesn't seem that bad too, the only two thing we should be aware of are Chalices and Greaves at that point a resolved Jace is basically GG, i am not saying this is a very good matchup but is not as hard from my tests.
Goblins and merfolk are bad places: only win route is gain as much time as opssible to set up terminus into entreat the angels for 3-4 tokens.
we die to lands if we don't lock them in CB top with 2 on top and if we lock them and they see multiple ports ( 3+).
I feel the worst matchups are Jund nic fit, Posts, Merfolks...
1. These are comments in a forum, they are opinions, not stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
2. The majority of TheArchitect and CutthroatCasual opinions are correct. I don't see how you arrive at the conclusion of "won't nake any sense" MU analysis does not equate to deck distribution/popularity in any Legacy tournaments.
3. Land is Miracles favored.
Ah I forgot about Merfolk. Yea, that MU is not favored for us for the similar reason as Goblins: they power out creatures that keep getting bigger. Except they play blue so they can interact, but Terminus is better against them than it is against Goblins.
If Goblins is a 10/90, then Merfolk is a 30/70. I'd much rather play against Merfolk than Goblins.
These stats are correct, you're just not Miracle'ing hard enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
It also helps that the decks we're bad against are just crap compared to the rest of the field (with the exception of Merfolk, having a better MU than 12-Post or Goblins, but still not really strong right now), so we don't generally need to worry about these MUs.
I played the punishing version of miracles last night in a legacy DE. It is a terrible deck to play on mtgo since you can't win a match 1-0, as you can still lose to the chess clock. Winning with punishing fire is a nightmare with the triggers it produces. You can't auto yield to it since it switches zones. Dack fayden also produces additional actions and I'm not used to his interaction with top, since you are kind of using him as a mill 2 which makes his interaction with counterbalance awkward. With more practice I could get into auto pilot mode to make the interactions more intuitive.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...teal-Wins.html
Not playing Ponder in miracles feels strange and almost wrong.
Grixis Control gave me problems today. 0-2 in the weekly Legacy 16-man.
I get that we need to establish an early CounterTop lock, but if we can't and they just have Therapy out the ass, what can we do?
Bad beats: I'm hellbent, I draw, he K-Command's me. It was a Supreme Verdict and he had Pyro and 3 tokens.
MUD: have all the cards to destroy our control imho:
- chalice: we have up to 16-18 drop @1
- trinisphere: block our tricks with Sensei (Mentor) and Snapcaster
- cavern of souls: ecounterable metalworker into some deadly options..
GRISIS (control version): imho this matchup is hard:
He can play gitaxian into Cabal and this is deadly combination for our hand.
I want to resolve Counterbalance in G1 and i want to counter his Pyromancer in G2.
Side in Rest in Peace and add 1 mass removal is good.
I side in 2x Wear Tear because he side in Pithing Needle and Null Rod.
Siding in RIP vs grixis to beat half a card (therapy) and dig through times is a bad idea. If it was a relic maybe side that in. But definitely not RIP. RIP hoses us more than it hoses them in that MU. I agree with W/T but 2 might be overkill if you also have venser and/or CJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
Vs MUD, jace is the best card in the deck. Controlling chalice is important. Trinosphere isn't actually that big of a deal. They often just have bad draws too so having wizard beats, early angels or mentors to capitalize on this is important. Vs MUD I side out 4 ponders and CB. Anyone never side out swords, they are way too important.
Kind of depends what version Hrothgar is playing. If there's a RiP in the SB I assume there's less Snapcasters than usual? And maybe no DTT? If that's the case I snap side in RiP. Just stopping DTT is easily worth it, as well as the second half of therapy and sometimes they have a tasigur/angler and a couple of snapcasters themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
Rip take:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
- cabal therapy
- deathrite shaman
- dig through time
- gurmag angler
Wear Tear take:
- engineered explosives
- sulfuric vortex
- pithing needle
- null rod
Having played some games on both sides of the matchup, establishing a quick Counter-Top is how Miracles wins this matchup. Cheap counterspells are great here -- Flusterstorm, Spell Pierce, and REB. Mentor is also strong in this matchup, as it trumps Young Pyromancer fairly quickly. I was able to blow out a Miracles player a few weeks ago with a Sulfur Elemental, which is one of the few ways Grixis can easily interact with Mentor.
On an unrelated point, how are people handling Mentor in post-board games in the mirror or against the GP Lille winning deck? I feel like you want a few copies of Terminus if you are sure that you are playing against Mentor (especially if they have Cavern), but this makes it difficult to bring in all of the cards I'd normally want in my deck.
This was the point of playing mentor in the first place. Sure it wins games, but the exciting part was the ability to destroy everyone's sideboarding for the mirror. It makes things more complicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by presquepartout
Also pure Grixis is much scarcer now in favour of 4c Delver (for Tarmogoyf and Abrupt Decay)
So it also takes Snapmage and Tarmogoyf, but yes, in that matchup I prefer Needle for DRS or Liliana
P Sully and Cedric discuss B&R, SDT, and Miracles.
https://soundcloud.com/cedtalks/cedt...he-br-list-mtg
Without listening, I'm going to assume they both want to ban the only Control deck in the format.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Or maybe people actually believe that this deck functions without Top. I'm pretty sure if either Top or Counterbalance got the axe, the whole pile of cards comes crashing down. If they axe Top, I think people would just play UWR Mentor decks that play like Stoneblade, and call those Control decks. If they axe Counterbalance, then why the hell are you even running Top? Is Terminus that much better than Verdict? Some people act like Top is a good enough card to just throw in a deck without a pile of cards that specifically rely on library manipulation. The SCG commentators, especially, like to claim that Top is the best card in the deck.
They want Top banned, but mainly for coverage reasons. A lot of their argument revolves around the fact that some of the better Miracles players often pick up several unintentional draws throughout the course of a tournament. Since they're SCG, they focused on people who regularly attend opens (they specifically mentioned BBD, Joe, and Reid). So if the best can't avoid draws, then how can the rest. I'm reducing their argument quite a bit (and they did mention that Ein was very fast with the deck), but that's the gist. They didn't seem to think that Top should be banned for power reasons.
RIP is good vs 4c delver, I agree with you there. But you originally said grixis control which plays just 4 therapy and 3-4 digs/anglers. RIP is not worth it there even if we did not also play 4-6 Digs/snaps. Grixis control won't play vortex and W/T does not do anything vs EE really, so its really just 1-2 needles/rods in their 75 that W/T hits. If you already have 1-2 cards like EE, venser, or CJ, having 2 WT which only have 2 targets in their deck seems really bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
Vs Grixis control I normally board like this:
-2 STP
-2 Jace (all jaces)
-4 FoW
-1 Plains
+3 Blasts
+3 Fluster/pierce
+2 Mentor
+1 EE/CJ/WT
Things might change slightly if I thought they had less/more STP targets. If they had a harder control set up I might keep in some FoW.
I've really liked 1 RIP / 1 Relic split recently. Some matches I want rip, some I want relic;
Vs Grixis, I like relic but don't want RIP etc, but I still want two pieces if GY interaction.