I bet it isn't even mentioned...Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
It wasn't last time (link).
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I bet it isn't even mentioned...Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
It wasn't last time (link).
One small point of contention: Ponder/Legends Miracles are Control/Prison, which is a put-off to some players who prefer their control to lean in the direction of anything-but-prison. Granted, prison often falls under the umbrella of control, but there is no denying that the miracles style of "control" is quite often not the "control" some players are looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
Only pointing it out because not every control player out there sees miracles as the deck that saved the control archetype; some consider it an abomination.
It finally happened, we are freed from this shit!
We did it boys
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-L1X2JUMAAyhmx.jpg
Time to lose some weight.
Well hot damn, they actually did something.
I was wrong but I'll take it.
Very surprised they went after Top, I guess the top of the deck design space was getting impacted too much.
Ding dong, the witch is dead.
Holy shit. I'll gladly eat this plate full of crow.
And Probe and Gush for Vintage. Hot damn.
Fine, they banned SDT, was hoping they banned Terminus because SDT is played in some tier 2 decks that will take a hit with this announcement. Unfortunately no unbans.
This is definitely a point of contention. I would concede that Miracles is prisonesque, but unlike traditional prison it is permission based control; and reactive (not proactive like traditional prison) in the sense that they need mana + Top activation to get value out of CB. This can be baited and played around to "pushed through" just like counter-spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barachai
To me Miracles is more like a traditional :u::w: Draw-Go deck than a prison deck like Stasis or Stax.
But I agree this is contentious.
Edit - wow!
Gotta say I wish that it was CB or Terminus that ate this ban over Top, but at least something went.
sic semper tyrannis
fuck, what will happen to this thread? Now we only have brainstorm left to complain about!
Rest in peace, control. Midrange crybabies have taken over their final format. :tongue:
All creatures, all the time, in every format.
If anything those tier 2 decks are gonna benefit more from this than a terminus ban. Because now terminus is unplayable as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat
Obit anus, abit onus? :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Well, top is gone. Long live the new king!
On a more serious note, they're looking closely at gitaxian.
Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk
CotV?Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Never again do I have to watch someone Top for 30 seconds, twice a turn!
Enjoy Modern.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
Next B&R announcement. Brainstorm is now banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
I can #Dream about it
The tears are as beautiful as I had always imagined.
I've been playing DDFT for years, this is sad :(
Deathrite Shaman.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
I think they'll stay away from Legacy for awhile now.
The double hit in Vintage is suprising, but again, seems they're giving that format a lot of attention as of late.
Here's hoping Scroll Rack Miracles can survive as a T1 or T1.5 deck.
I'd rather cast siege rhino in legacy, thanks dude!Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
The Vintage Super League is doing serious damage to Vintage. Pros play against other pros and most of them frequently want to play blue decks to have the most fun. It's completely inbred with people tailoring their blue decks to beat other blue decks. Meanwhile, in the real world, Workshops and Eldrazi decks have higher win percentages than any Gush deck. But Mentor decks get two cards banned from them instead of nothing or simply banning Mentor and being done with it. That deck is still going to be strong with 1 Gush and Workshops are probably still going to perform better than Gush decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
daaaaaaaaaayuuum
Just for the record, folks:
Miracles was not OP in WotC's eyes. Logistics was the key.Quote:
Miracles—a deck that is focused on combining Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top to control what opponents can or (mostly) cannot resolve—has been the best deck in the format for some time. We were hopeful that this would change over time, but it has not. That alone is not necessarily enough to move to ban a card from the deck, but [B]Sensei's Divining Top comes with its own host of issues that center around the timely conclusion of matches in a tournament setting.
I think we can all agree (emotions aside) that Legacy is at a very interesting juncture right now - for better or for worse. Exciting stuff!
This is the third time gush moves to the restricted list. I doubt it will be unbanned in the years to come. Such a shame, it's one of the icons/pillars of vintage imo, with its legacy all the way up to Tropical Storm and Gro-a-tog (Psychatog) Decks...Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderwaterGuy
Sorry man, that must be rather upsetting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_D
Really does open up so much deck design space it seems now. All sorts of decks can be viable without Miracles lingering in deeper in the tournament, forcing deck building concessions.
Is Caverns necessary now in DnT/Maverick?
Do we need so much Abrupt Decay, or can you get by with sideboard Nature's Claim? Not as much need for Krosan Grip. I don't even know what other disenchant varieties have been released lately.
Discard oriented strategies can make a push.
Without needing Abrupt Decay, BWR decks can open up a little.
Storm etc can abandon the maindeck Abrupt Decay, unless they're wanting to answer Chalice more often.
Interested to see what control deck will take the mantel, since something will need to prey upon all the fast combo that's about to come out of the woodwork.
And the crowd goes CRAZY.
so 8 years after this poll was opened and top was the main problem they finally banned it?
theyre really quick
Getting rid of ETA accomplishes the same thing and doesn't kill the last bastion of pure control because then Miracles players don't have something to durdle towards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
It's very frustrating for me to see it. I don't like the Gush Mentor decks either but I really don't think Gush was the culprit for that deck and the deck was incredibly popular and played but objectively it did not perform as well as Workshops. it's brutal for 2 cards to be banned from this deck that is being played most often but was not dominant in terms of wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
You beat me to it! :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
I was going to point out that WotC's decision was heavily influenced by the poll at the top of this thread.
I'm conflicted, I don't like miracles but never saw it as a huge deal and I don't like it when a deck gets axed.
That said, for some reason slow play is absolutely rampant in Japan and miracles players are by far the worse offenders. So I utterly understand the logistics behind the ban.
Long overdue, but still - fucking awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6cnryxwH6A
The kill condition of choice didn't matter. They could utilize Snapcaster to end the game. Entreat, Mentor etc just let them do it faster.
Interesting that Wizards acknowledged that Miracles has been the best deck for a long time and they were hoping the format would take it down, but the format could never adjust to it.