Wish I could go so bad!
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Wish I could go so bad!
Hi, this is my first post on this site.
Imperial Painter Mono Red is my tournament deck in the Legacy format.
This is my current list;
// Lands
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain
// Creatures
4x Painter's Servant
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Imperial Recruiter
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
// Spells
4x Red Elemental Blast
4x Pyroblast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Grindstone
3x Chrome Mox
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Blood Moon
// Sideboard
4x Trinisphere
4x Pyrokinesis
3x Shattering Spree
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Silent Arbiter
I must confess that I have fallen deeply in love with this deck. It's fun, it's unique, and it's combo/aggro/control all wrapped into one. Definitely gonna build it IRL. Here's what I've cooked up in my very limited experience with it thus far:
// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
10 [8E] Mountain (4)
// Creatures
2 [TSP] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
// Spells
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
2 [FD] Magma Jet
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [OV] Pyroblast
4 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
4 [TE] Grindstone
4 [4E] Lightning Bolt
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 1 [9E] Jester's Cap
SB: 1 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 2 [CH] Blood Moon
SB: 3 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 [V09] Trinisphere
I played in a 32 man tournament last night and finished with a 1st/2nd split, winning a couple of duals! I was unsure about what deck to bring but decided to go with Paintzilla since it's my most practiced deck and a metagame curveball. I will be honest that the zoo matchup is terrible but I decided to gamble and it paid off because I did not have to face the (at least)two people running it. My list is slightly different than normal...
4 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Welder
4 Painters Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
2 Bood Moon
2 Gamble
1 Chrome Mox
4 Grindstone
4 Sensei's Diving Top
SB
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Anarchy
2 Shattering Spree
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Blood Moon
1 Silent Arbiter
Inclusions/Omissions
Figure of Destiny: Some of you like this guy and if he works for you, great. This card is absolute garbage in this deck/format though. He does nothing except waste your mana/tempo pursuing an alternate game plan. Sure, it's OK with a Moon, but you've probably already won if you stuck a moon. If you don't have a moon out then he may have issues becoming 4/4. That is if he doesn't get wasted in response or swarmed over. Seriously, 5 mana to have it die to every piece of removal/bounce and it can't hold off or get through a goyf without 6 red mana (11 mana total). Say it with me, "6 red mana". I would rather recuit Painter, Jaya, Welder, or the SB Arbiter or Shusher almost every single time. It takes up all your mana then lets you down.
Lightning Bolt/Magma Jet: Tried it, don't like it. What are you going to kill with it? Dark Confidant? Wild Nacatl? Lackey? What if they run creatures bigger than toughness 3 or few to no creatures? It might buy you a turn against aggro before you get run over. You'll rarely use it for reach in a game you wouldn't have won through aggro the following turn.
Goblin Welder: Complete and utter rapist. For the life of me, I cannot understand why no one seems to like this guy. An early game welder is devastating against anything with counters, essentially blanking them, and cruical in games 2 and 3 where you might see some Krosan Grips and such. If Grindstone is in the yard then Recruit a Welder. Welder makes otherwise risky Gamble shenanigans totally worth it. Activate Grindstone, retain priority, swap Grindstone for painter and win. Or, end of turn swap Painter for Grindstone, untap, activate, swap for Painter and win. Added bonus: It keeps Ensnarings Bridge online -- Crazy with Top.
Gamble: Finding Grindstone or even Painter can be tricky sometimes which is why I suppose Figure might sound good. But winning right now is better than betting on Figure getting there. Also, it finds Servant, blast, 2 mana lands, Ensnaring Bridge, etc.. Even without Welder this card can flat out win games if you have the balls. Tapping top to up your hand size and increase your odds of keeping what you want can help in a pinch. This has won many, many more games than it has lost me. it's not even close.
Sensei's Divining Top: Most of you know it's a great card to begin with but shines in this deck. Cheap and efficient with 10 shuffle effects, it helps consistancy immensely. Opening with a Tomb and top with activation is great. I need artifacts and it is awesome with Welder. Tap top, retain priority, weld top, draw a card without putting top on top of the library since it's in the yard. If you can get a top in the yard and a second top in play, swap top for top and the card drawing and topping inbetween all the draws will get you what you need.
Mana Base: More lands and less Chrome mox may hurt explosiveness slightly but consistancy is key. My build mulligans very rarely uncommon to Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors mana bases. Great Furnace is still an artifact with Moon out, enabling Welder. Card advantage is difficult with this deck and Chrome Mox hurts and is a terrible top deck.
Report:
Michael B/G/W Loam
G1: He goes first and takes out my first turn Moon with Toughtseize followed by a second turn one as well. Couple of goyfs and a Pernicious Deed later I go down after Blasting one goyf.
G2: First turn Magus almost gets there before I combo out with him at low life and Welder backup.
G3: Turn 1 Grindstone. Turn 2 Recruit Painter which he then Thoughtseized. Top deck Painter and win Turn 3 with a Mountain and Tombx2.
Note: 3 colors with Wasteland and Mishras Factory...
Michael U/g Merfolk
G1: Turn 1 Grindstone with Great Furnace. Wasteland. Top, Painter which he tries to Daze, Weld in Furnace for Top and pay it. Win.
G2: Turn 1 Welder meets Force. Turn 2 Welder resolves. Turn 3 Gamble. Win turn 4 or 5.
Note: Welder bends Merfolk over without an active Jitte.
Matt: Green Stompy (10 landish variety)
G1: He plays lots of dudes and I am holding his attacks down with Painter, Jaya, Welder. I get a second top that I pitch with Jaya and a second Welder and start frantically drawing, swapping, and topping. My last turn at 3 life I finally find Grindstone on the 3rd card down, draw it and win!
G2: Turn 1 Llanowar. Grindstone. Turn 2 something for him and Painter for me. Turn 3 Win.
Thomas: U/w/g Control with Cunning Wish, Humility
G1: Welder, Painter, Recuiter which he forces? Recruit next turn for Jaya and go to town on his mana base.
G2: Turn 2 Blood Moon is counterspelled. Turn 3 Magus with Blast backup resolves. I get 3 Painters out and 2 Blasts in my hand.
Note: Humility doesn't stop Magus or Painter's continuous effects which is hilarious.
Round 5 I.D. to top 8 with the 1 seed.
Quarter Finals
Sean U/W/G Excalibur
G1: Welder, Painter, Top, Grindstone.
G2: Getting beatdown by an early Goyf. He draw step Cliques to find a Bood Moon and a Magus. He decides to let me keep both. (No counter)! Land a Magus, soon thereafter get a Bridge online that stops goyf but not Clique. He gets me to 3 and Bridge and Moons lock him out. I build up a board with no joke: 3 Magus, 3 Painter, 3 Welder. Start swapping tops and digging like crazy managing my hand to 2 cards max. Eventually get a blast for his Goyf and Alpha strike over two turns. Really strange game...
Note: Sword of Fire/Ice doesn't work with Painter on blue.
Semi Finals
Derrick R/B Goblins
G1: First turn Blood moon isn't very good so I put it on Mox. I get ported and try to play Jaya, gets incinerated. Painter and blast Lackey and Warchief. Incinerator. Vomit goblins and wreck my couch.
G2: Turn 3 win.
G3: Turn 3-4 win.
Finals split. It's 2 in the morning and even though I had a good matchup against 4 color blue Jace.dec We draw and go home. I get a Trop and Sea. Ended with 12-2 record.
Other notes:
I didn't keep game good notes, but at least 2-3 wins were directly because of Gamble and cost me 0 games. Welder was amazing as usual. Top and Moons were of course awesome mostly. SB was ok but didn't use Crypt or Anarchy all day. Crypt is essential still and stupid with Welder. As for Anarchy, I was expecting to run into Enchantress, white leylines, or Progenitus but didnt see them. There was a Death and Taxes deck in the top 8 that I didn't have to play and also a couple of NO Bant I didn't run into, one in the top 8 (We drew round5).
...That's the whole point behind using them: To stall the first several turns so that you don't have to worry about being overrun by a horde of Goblins or worrying about being so low on life you need to be wary of tapping your Ancient Tombs for mana. Lightning Bolt also helps allow you to save your instant-speed "Vindicates" (Pyroblast and R.E.B.) so that you don't waste them on smaller creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by B0W53R
Lightning Bolt might not kill a Tarmogoyf outright, but it certainly hits a good portion of the creatures in this format that matter the first two or three turns before setting yourself to kill an opponent with Grindstone. How good do you think Lightning Bolt would be if you draw a Painter's Servant and your opponent is sitting there with a Qasali Pridemage on the table?
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Just because you dodged Zoo doesn't mean you shouldn't consider all possible avenues for improving the match-up and consider different scenarios, as the above seems all to likely.
You bring up a valid point and it may come down to playstyle and metas. I found that my meta shifted and is Zoo light but still has a lot of aggro, lots of control, and not much combo. Against all 3 tribal and other turn creature sideways decks I like to be the aggro and just race them since they have limited answers, hence a more combo oriented deck. Anything with blue in it, which is half the meta, Bolt is unimpressive. We use it as only a control card, and as a control card, it's not that great overall. Now I admit Zoo is a totally different monster, being a pure aggro deck that can use it's burn as control or aggro as the gamestate permits means fast clock and almost 20 maindeck answers to Painter. I don't think Bolt is enough to solve the threat they pose. I was last trying Lightning Greaves to try and protect a Welder or Painter it but rarely worked with the abundance of instant speed removal they pack. I actually shelved this deck for a while because Zoo was so prominent and if I were to play in a Zoo heavy or unknown meta I would probably tweak my current list or play something else.
I am definitely curious about how these conclusions were reached since I basically believe the complete opposite.Quote:
Figure of Destiny: Some of you like this guy and if he works for you, great. This card is absolute garbage in this deck/format though. He does nothing except waste your mana/tempo pursuing an alternate game plan. Sure, it's OK with a Moon, but you've probably already won if you stuck a moon. If you don't have a moon out then he may have issues becoming 4/4. That is if he doesn't get wasted in response or swarmed over. Seriously, 5 mana to have it die to every piece of removal/bounce and it can't hold off or get through a goyf without 6 red mana (11 mana total). Say it with me, "6 red mana". I would rather recuit Painter, Jaya, Welder, or the SB Arbiter or Shusher almost every single time. It takes up all your mana then lets you down.
Lightning Bolt/Magma Jet: Tried it, don't like it. What are you going to kill with it? Dark Confidant? Wild Nacatl? Lackey? What if they run creatures bigger than toughness 3 or few to no creatures? It might buy you a turn against aggro before you get run over. You'll rarely use it for reach in a game you wouldn't have won through aggro the following turn.
From my experience, resolving a Moon is NOT game over by itself at all. If you don't get a first turn Moon on the play, the opponent can fetch a basic or play a Hierarch (reason number ???? for Jet/Bolt). Figure is an excellent way to complement the Moon plan, especially in a deck that can pump it faster than any other. Figures are a 1cc win condition or a 1cc decoy to draw removal away from your Painters. Seems good to me.
I think Hollywood already addressed the Jet/Bolt issue, but I would add that Jet specifically works really well with Top to dig for the combo, a Blast or just filter away junk.
i ve been testing for sometimes new builds around welder for this deck (haven't brought it to a tour yet) and i must say the it is really nice. Last build i tried was inspired by B0W53R (manabase wise) as i finally chose to drop the Moxes.
4 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Welder
4 Painters Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
2 Bood Moon
2 Jitte
2 Lightening Bolt
4 Grindstone
4 Sensei's Diving Top
SB
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Vexing
1 Basilik Colar
1 Pyroblast
2 Lightening Bolt
1 Blood Moon
1 Silent Arbiter
2 Figures Of Destiny
bolt & jitte MD as i tend to find them mandatory and also as those are never really dead cards and can manage an aggro win. I am pretty glad i removed Mox at least for now, as i was always never quite satisfied with it, the only downside being less explosive (but no more risky "all" in" starts), but yet more consistent and less mulligans. Tops + Welder is a bomb.
I might try it out in tour again as i tend to see less and less iona which was a really pain in the you know what.
anyone tried reverberate btw ?
for me the problem with welder builds are that sometimes i dont have a discard outlet to begin using him, as they have in welder survival, or control slaver. what do we do with 2 top in play and welder? i thought a long time ago a build like this involving elsewhere flask, but it wasnt worth it, at least for me. how about mindless automaton?
or maybe having 4 gamble, 4 welder allows us to play triskellions and duplicants, dont know, just throwing ideas off the top of my head.
i remember now ! i was even using them but i totally skipped themQuote:
Originally Posted by thorin_the_king
pyrite spellbomb
about triskelion well i admint i ve never thought about it, good thing comparing it to pyrite is that it's fetchable with recruiter, 6 land sound "ok". I guess it deserves some testing.
Also what do you think about Meekstone instead of Ensnaring ?
All right we got some discussion! Experienced pilots are hard to come by thanks to Recruiters being so expensive/pimp. Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to say that my tweak is superior or anything equally ignorant. I've tried to preface both of my last posts with how this take isn't good against Zoo, but this archetype really isn't good against it. Zoo's presence shrank so I went for it and got lucky--two weeks in a row actually--this one was just a larger event, but not even that big.
@Hollywood/Drew: Would you change anything about your lists if you felt Zoo wasn't going to be well represented at the next event you went to?
I admit I was a little harsh in my analysis of Figure probably due to temporary head inflation. It kinda costs 1, but really costs 5 to do anything usefull. Spending the mana/tempo to attempt a 4/4 and have it backfire may cost the game. Backed with bolts/jets a Figure does have a shot at stabilizing or finishing. I had varied success with him though. It became personal when I had a bad luck streak and had a Darth Vader, "You've failed me for the last time admiral", moment and force choked it out of the deck. I have been contemplating adding one back as a Recruiter target.
I don't think Welder enablers are needed as you don't want to get too cute about it. The deck isn't about trying to break Welder like a Survival/Slaver deck. I look at him as a layer of protection for a two artifact combo but happens to have other synergies. Many times I just win with him out there daring my opponent to use that Grip in their hand, something Blasts cannot do. Your opponents will counter or destroy an artifact for you many times. Wasteland on Great Furnace can seem like a great play on the other side of the table and sometimes it is, but it also can comeback to haunt them. G2/G3 Tormod's Crypt can do the job also and you can always Grindstone yourself too.
Mindless Automation sounds like a lot of fun but I doubt it's worth it. If you have the time to recruit him and start swapping, you are in a great position. Pyrite Spellbomb is the most intriguing since it would give some Bolt/Jet like effect and enable Welder for recurring draw/damage. I might try a few out but I'm skeptical.
I've tried all number of Gambles and I feel 2 is the right number. It's really not that cool to see more than one in a game, especially without 4 Chrome Mox. I love the ability of this deck to win with it's back against the wall. The look on opponents faces when they were about to win is priceless.
Meekstone is no good. Ask new metagame threat Emrakul how he feels about it. Stopping the attack phase completely with Bridge is pretty hot. Since I like a 6 blast configuration I think I will go to 4 Pyroblast and 2 REB since you can get rid of Pyroblast without Painter in a pinch with Bridge. I was playing a couple of Jittes for a while and they seemed a bit out of place. Many times to charge it you have to sacrifice a creature and it can be a mana sink.
Imperial Painter is cool because there are definitely a few legitimately competitive builds. No doubt, the Welder and Gamble route is one of them, and it's the most combo-focused build as far as I can tell. For a period of a few months I played it and came to a similar conclusion as you did B0W53R, that 2 Gambles are the right number. I actually had some good success with less than 4 Welders too (I know there are some reports about it somewhere in this thread but I'm not going to try and find it). After I had been playing Welders and Gambles for a couple of months or so, Hollywood was trying Figures and aggro was on the rise. I tried Figures and found them to be a perfect all-around addition to the deck because, in addition to being their own win condition, they could be effective "walls" to help buy time against Zoo and even Merfolk. Both Welders and Figures are cheap decoys to draw removal and both require some other conditions be met in order to be more effective that 1cc 1/1's, but I've found 3 red mana to be a fairly easy condition to meet, even early in the game. At the time I switched, Aggro Loam was becoming a mainstay in my meta, and I was trying to cut down on 1cc spells to avoid complete Chalice lockdown...I know Figures don't help that cause, but Welders and Gambles required me to play more 1 cc stuff.
If I knew Zoo would be non-existent, I would still use Figures to some extent I think, but I would probably consider using less Blood Moons and max out my Magus count again.
Now that I've gone on my pro-kithkin rant, I will say that Welders and Gambles may be a good way to push to the Grindstone combo through Emrakul decks because you can more consistently get out the Crypts you need to go off.
Emrakul is one of the worst things to happen to this deck. Against Emrakul decks, I am currently siding in a all 4 of my anti-graveyard cards, and/or siding in an extra Blast and a third Jaya so I can play the control role while beating down.
Regarding Moxes, I am currently playing 2. I am still not sure on this, but I suspect that the deck still needs some to enable the explosive starts (our only truly effective "lock" is a first or second turn Moon) but that the right number is definitely below 4.
And yes, I absolutely love Top in this deck. Even without Welders, I would not play Imperial Painter without them, although I only run 3.
So far it's been good even w/o Mox but i ll give it a try with 2 and -2 land.
The thing about emrakul is it's indeed really annoying but combining the welder route that allows recursive TCrypt and FMacabre+Recruiter seems fine ... in game 2 & 3. I guess i ll add 1 more FMacabre in the side to make it 2/2 with TCrypt. That mean game one definitely need things like Jitte/bolt to be winnable, as well as focusing on countering Sneack & SnT. Another Option in G2 would be to board in Figures, more bolts, and go on a very aggro route with painter+Blast back up (needle as win more maybe), yet that back up makes their own blast playable.
here my current build w/o mox, (and no i don't like gamble ^^)
4 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Welder
4 Painters Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
2 Bood Moon
2 Jitte
1 Lightening Bolt
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Triskelion (currently trying it)
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Diving Top
SB
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Lightening Bolt
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Figures Of Destiny
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blood Moon
1 Basilik Collar
meta call are i guess SSpree & Vexing & Heart Kami & Pithing Needle
So i had some time to test a lot on msw (so yeah well it worth what it worth ...) i came back to 1 Welder but stayed at 19 land & 1 Mox. I came back to a much more aggressive aggro route. After playing many games and even if welder allows tons of awesome tricks italso often happened to be a simple 1/1. Senseis on the other hand were a blast and i am really happy i finally included them. My new main inclusion is from dragon stompy aka taurean mauler, well it's not an "Oh i win!" card but yet an "ok" clock kinda acting like a standstill (yeah i know more or less but the idea is the same you play "i win"). I really had encouraging results. I ve also added 1 Grim lavamencer as i use 6 fetchs now and well he's a pretty decent removal as well as a bait, and get back to 3 Figures MD. So in order to add all this i had to remove 1 Blast & 1 Moon effect (back to 4 MD). I still convinced that Jitte helps a lot and are mandatories. Oh and Triskelion sucks, Solemn Simulacrum is better yet it's a completely different use.
5 Mountain
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Goblin Welder
1 Grim Lavamencer
4 Painters Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Figure Of Destiny
2 Taurean Mauler
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
1 Bood Moon
1 Chrome Mox
2 Jitte
2 Lightening Bolt
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Diving Top
SB
2 Lightening Bolt
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Magma Jet
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blood Moon
1 Taurean Mauler
2 Shattering Spree
2 Pithing Needle
i am not really sold on the SB though.
Any one played IR in a tour recently ?
I know I haven't posted in a while as Medical School has kept me busy. i have played every so often and I top eight at 2 of the 3 Legacy Opens in Baltimore. I just missed top 8 today. i have been working on the deck a bit and I'm fairly happy with the build I've been running.
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 painter's servant
4 magnus of the Moon
3 FoD
3 SSG
1 jaya ballard
2 Blood Moon
4 REB
2 Pyroblast
3 Chrome Mox
4 Grindstone
3 Cruel Tutor
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Badlands
4 city of Traitors
4 Ancient Tombs
1 Swamp
Side
4 trinisphere
2 pyroblast
1 Boneshredder
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Stingscouger
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Blood Moon
3 Perish
Today I beat storm, elf combo, goblins, and belcher. I lost to a rock deck, and survival madness. The rock deck was extreamely lucky to win the match as i had him at 1 life for 4 turns and I needed a creature of Lightning bolt to win, or a grindstone to mill him. Game three I landed first turn Blood Moon and proceded to not draw another land while he dropped two mox diamonds and had time to dig and get the grip. Oh well. For survival I'm not sure what happened. It was my first time playing against it and I think I kept suboptimal hands. Def. think that match is winnable. Their guys just aren't scary and they run 8 relevant spells of disruption.
On to the changes. Perish is a house against zoo, and elf combo but that deck sucks. I finally found some cards worth siding in against zoo in place of the REB. I could take or leave the Cruel Tutors. they didn't decide any games on the day. I like the chance at tutoring, and I like the black splash. I will say the swamp is sometimes awkward but it did not cause problems today. Trinisphere was a life saver. i know the meta is a little off as there was lots of combo and red decks. There were also 5 merfolk and some decks with shitty mana bases, but I didnt't play any of them.
I think overall I'm comfortable with the deck. i doubt I would play a version without another set of tutors other than the Imperial Recruiters. In my testing the black has really helped the zoo match up though. I'm not sure if the Boneshredder belongs in the board but I like the versatility. It could be pulled for any number of utility artifacts though. I think stingscourger needs to be there though with all the eldrazi and big shits running around and Perish can handle Progenitis.
Lightning Bolt was and still is a house. Yes it is week against combo and Show and Tell decks, but every other deck it is great against. I think tops could sub in for the Cruel Tutors, but I urge everyone to try the Perish route out. I;ve been having great results against zoo. i actually don't feel frowntown when I have to play it anymore.
FoD I understand why people may not want it, but it's versatility is unmatched. Without it lackeys and the like can be problematic and I really don't see how you can go the beat down route. they serve as a great clock under moon effects and really add to the dynamic nature of the deck. although I think they do in a way make the deck harder to play bc they open more lanes of attack. With all the eldrazi floating around, solely hoping to combo out isnt always an option. That is waht Welders do. yeah they make the grindstone combo stronger, but the combo isn't as strong as it was 2 yerars ago. I think the deck is still really strong, but we can't be hoping to pull off the combo as much as in the past. To many decks are running main deck answers. Just my two cents. If anyone has nay question or comments I would love to talk about this stuff.
Played with 2 welder's in the board this weekend at our local tournament and ended up siding them in every game.. Such a strong card would recommend that if you aren't playing them already to at least try them.
Also about Emrakul, Just run Faerie Macabre in the SB or 1 copy in the MB - easy or Ravenous trap.
Also about Emrakul, Just run Faerie Macabre in the SB or 1 copy in the MB - easy or Ravenous trap.[/QUOTE]
I undersatnd how to beat the deck, but if they run 3+ Eldrazi, then the Fairie will not get there. Just hoping to combo off is not that great of a position to be in. I only brought it up b/c I think the deck needs an alternative game plan. If the welder plan is working for you I say continue it, all I know is that he is a strong card that always felt win more to me. I have tested him out extensively over a year ago when the combo aspect of the deck was stronger. But since there are huge fatties floating around that love to reshuffle decks, the combo is still strong, just not as strong.
I may or may not go back to the tops in my deck. I do love the card and miss it a lot. I realized that I really wanted it a midragainstange decks. Keeping your hand full of good stuff and preventing them from making you discard said good stuff would def help. It has been a while since I've played tops as i started to push having tutors in the deck and i have liked them overall to find singleton wers.and Running tops would require me to change the board and prob drop ensnaring bridge and amongst others.
@Drew-I think the beat down plan against the show and tell decks is the best way to go. Slow down their mana with moons and hope to blast the show and tell or get jaya online while beating with figures. That is the most success I have had is sticking to that. The Faerie Macabre for me hasn't work bc they have 3+ Eldrazi. That is why I added a Crypt to the board and may add another one.
Hey buddies,
Which sideboard do you made against Enchantress?
Enchantress can stop you with 1) Solitary Confinement 2) Runed Halo 3) Leyine of Sanctity. All white cards. You can blast them if Sterling Groves aren't involved, but if they are your best bet is Anarchy.
If you find that to be the case, then packing a deck with 8x Moon effects in the 75 probably should not be the plan. The deck is called Imperial Painter, but Blood Moon effects (plus ~8x REB) are what gives it game against competitive decks (read: Blue decks). Just from watching Billy play the deck a bunch, it seems to me the Painter/Grindstone bit is just to crush the shitty decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewliusMaximus