[Deck] UW Tempo

Just got back from my tournament in Bochum, placed 5th out of 29 (3-0-2, no ID).

List:

//Lands
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa

//Creatures
4 Serra Avenger
4 Mother of Runes
4 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Fathom Seer

//Spells
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte

//Sideboard:
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Aura of Silence
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist

The third Spell Pierce is still very good in the maindeck, the Ghostly Priosn really needs to be something else.

Round 1: Ichorid (2-1)

Game 1: He only dredges one Narcomeoba and creates a few Zombies but my Serra Avenger combines with a Swords to Plowshares gets the job done after some early beats with mother/wayfarer.
Game 2: I draw land, land, land, land from the top and my single Forge-Tender + some irrelevant stuff isn't enough.
Game 3: Daze for his first turn play (Imp?) and anything I need (Forge-Tender, Crypt, stuff).

Round 2: Lands (1-1-1)

Game 1: I concede far too late. Fun fact; I had no lands left in my library.
Game 2: Spell Pierce for Manabond and Loam + Relic + creatures.
Game 3: I forget the Vial trigger one turn, play too slow and in the end I need one more turn to win. :cry:

Round 3: Dragon Stompy (2-1)

Game 1: He wins the dice roll and goes turn 1 Trinisphere, turn 2 Avalanche Riders for my Basic Plains and some more stuff to kill me.
Game 2: First turn Vial combined with a protected Serra Avenger kills him. And I got 2 Wastelands for his first 2 lands (Tomb/City).
Game 3: He starts with Chalice 1 but Imy hand has 3 lands + Aura of Silence + good stuff. Forge-Tender + Jitte ftw.

Round 4: Gw Survival (1-1) [Valdez]

Game 1: Lucky topdecks (Swords for both his mothers and Brainstorm into 2x Avenger) and no Swords to Plowshares on his side. He even got the Survival online, but he couldn't stop the Avengers.
Game 2: He plays first turn mother, follows up with some more threads. I realize that I can't win and stall with creatures. This matchup is really rough. We have 4 minutes left after this game and decide to draw.

Round 5: Ichorid (2-0)

Game 1: He mulligans into Putird Imp² and Dakmor Salvage (yes, Bloodghasts), but I have Swords² and an early Grunt.
Game 2: Forge-Tender, Spell Pierce/Force and Relic. Nuff said. :laugh:

Lesson learned, I'll try to play faster in the future.

I'm no longer a One Trick Pony. :tongue:

Just pondering.
Looks crazy enough to just work against zoo.
Another possible card: Descendant of Kiyomaro.

Sideboard:

+1 Bojuka Bog (tutor Wayfarer) tutorable answer with Wayfarer
+1 Vesuvan Shapeshifte (other morph+ kills progen + can keep doing fathom seer ability)

Just a thought.

I've been asked a few times for the extended list. I have some time now, so here it is, with modifications up to the most recent set. (It wasn't like this when I was toying with it before)

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
3 [ST] Plains (1)
2 [MM] Island (1)
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
1 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
1 [DIS] Azorius Chancery

// Creatures
4 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
4 [ALA] Knight of the White Orchid
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
1 [ARB] Meddling Mage
2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [DD2] Fathom Seer
1 [DIS] Court Hussar
4 [CHP] Serra Avenger
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
2 [M10] Baneslayer Angel

// Spells
4 [REW] Condemn
4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [TSP] Careful Consideration
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 4 [SOK] Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 [TSP] Return to Dust
SB: 2 [CFX] Path to Exile

The notable changes are that the removal in extended is so pathetic that path to exile actually manages to pick up some slots over the close competitor, sunlance, in the sideboard. Return to dust wins over aura of silence because of the prevalence of thopter. I'm not sure baneslayer angels should be in here, but baneslayer, seer, are here as outlets for knights and to punish people for playing PTE. Sword of light and shadow makes the list to slide attackers past recurring martyrs and BSA. SOFI almost made the list to get attackers past thopter tokens, but I decided to resign if that happens game 1. Vendillion clique and meddling mage make the list because the permission in extended is weak, and tectonic edge still makes the list, since extended has a relatively high mana curve, and decks like Urzatron and scapeshift combo should be severely hindered by it. The list is still relatively new, and may undergo minor changes like the 3 EC in the sb becoming 2 EC and a meddling mage, or such things like that.

If I were to actually play this list, I might be tempted to try to replace BSA because I do not own them. I'm not even sure they belong in the optimal list. It is possible that the court hussar in here should be the 4th fathom seer, but I will see about that. I envision having a decent zoo matchup since I seem to win the vast majority of my games where zoo doesn't either get an active sylvan or lavamancer, both of which are illegal in ext. However, if that's not the case, changes can be made. Right now the deck is heavily geared towards fighting well in the endgame. The deck tries to be decidedly less aggressive than its legacy counterpart. However, the lack of one drops might coerce me to run some steppe lynx, and that combined with a poor zoo matchup may cause me to revisit putting 1 path to exile maindeck.

After playing this again, I see that it'll take me a while to learn this deck. This deck should easily beat reveillark but I keep forgetting to do things like hating their graveyard, forgetting what extended cards do, etc. etc. I even forgot reveillark triggers when leaving play, but my biggest error was just not choosing to win by boarding in relics.

I imagine that besides zoo, my other matches will go similarly roughly until I learn the format. As such, there probably won't be any audio commentary for this deck for a while.

EDIT: BSA has been removed, and SOLS will rotate out with Mirrodin (accompanying a significant change in the metagame.)

This list is for before the rotation. I realized that most extended lists run more centralized strategies, like momentary blink, or at least certain decks only run one form of removal. Meddling mage is thus better than in legacy, and has been increased to a 4 of:

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
3 [ST] Plains (1)
2 [MM] Island (1)
3 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
1 [DIS] Azorius Chancery
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn

// Creatures
4 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
3 [ALA] Knight of the White Orchid
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
4 [ARB] Meddling Mage
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
2 [DD2] Fathom Seer
1 [DIS] Court Hussar
4 [CHP] Serra Avenger
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt

// Spells
4 [REW] Condemn
4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [TSP] Careful Consideration
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 4 [SOK] Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 2 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 [TSP] Return to Dust

played this for the first time in an 8-person "tournament" tonight, with the list from the OP (-tundra +plains since i don't own 4 tundra, -ghostly prison +enlightened tutor). went 2-0-1 with an ID in the third round. beat goblins 2-0 first round, landstill 2-1 second round (on the last extra turn), and lost 1-2 to 2-land belcher third round (played out for fun). game 1 belcher had first turn 10 goblins, and game 3 he had second turn xantid swarm attack/belcher for 20. had a great time with it, and i look forward to making fewer play errors the next time around.

I've uploaded a couple of game vidoes from a test session against Merfolk at my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Tinefol. All of them are of HD quality, so switch to 720p and watch in full screen.

Most of the games basically came down to the point there I could or could not get rid of Lord of Atlantis islandwalking effect. Unfortunately for me, the Merfolk player was running Spellstutter Sprites, which are pretty effective at stopping two of our three outs to LoA: StP and Fathom Seer. And you can't do anything if she lands off Vial.

The little fairy turned the match into fair 50/50, we went like 5-5 in a course of testing.

I'd be glad if you'd point out my play errors, I might've missed some.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tinefol

I've uploaded a couple of game vidoes from a test session against Merfolk at my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Tinefol. All of them are of HD quality, so switch to 720p and watch in full screen.

Most of the games basically came down to the point there I could or could not get rid of Lord of Atlantis islandwalking effect. Unfortunately for me, the Merfolk player was running Spellstutter Sprites, which are pretty effective at stopping two of our three outs to LoA: StP and Fathom Seer. And you can't do anything if she lands off Vial.

The little fairy turned the match into fair 50/50, we went like 5-5 in a course of testing.

I'd be glad if you'd point out my play errors, I might've missed some.

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Merfolk is a great matchup. I don't see how a cute little faerie could make it go from like 75% to 50%. But to clarify, what you actually said is that in 10 games you put up 50%.

That says nothing about whether the actual matchup is 50%. (It's not.)

The silly faerie is really bad for merfolk because it doesn't get pumped. I can see losing stochastically to LOA. It's not even that unbelievable that it would happen 5 games out of 10.

For an example of an error you made, I think I caught you not saccing a strand for an island in the opening of one of the videos when he was tapped out.

Maybe you were burning resources on answering things that weren't LOA. Sometimes this is warranted, but LOA is obviously the most important target. All of the rest of his deck does next to nothing if you can block. But LOA prevents those interactions that are disastrous to the merfolk player, where you block everybody, his first lord dies, then his next lord dies, etc.

I noticed quite a few people seem to be making claims and getting impressions about the deck's matchups from their own experiences. I encourage you to suppress this urge until you are practiced.

This is no more than a feeling that I've got. When they vial in Spellstutter in, when you attempt to cast Fathom Seer or StP on LoA - its pretty painful. Might need to play a couple more games there; I haven't lost a tournament match to Merfolk yet as well.

Why would I need to fetch for an Island? Anyways, as I'm replaying the videos, I notice how horrible I am at this game :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tinefol

This is no more than a feeling that I've got. When they vial in Spellstutter in, when you attempt to cast Fathom Seer or StP on LoA - its pretty painful. Might need to play a couple more games there; I haven't lost a tournament match to Merfolk yet as well.

Why would I need to fetch for an Island? Anyways, as I'm replaying the videos, I notice how horrible I am at this game :D

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Watching the games. You should add commentaries, the dead silence is like clausterphobic.


Game 1: Nice plays. He gets double Lord of Atlantis and the trick play with Spellstutter Sprite, but still gets blown out by superior creatures.
This is usually how they go.

Game 2: You just walk your mom into spellstutter when there was no reason to do that. There was actually reason not to do it since a second wayfarer would have very efficient in that situation (trades with cursecatcher if opponent doesn't play a lord, fetches a second land, and gives cover for Mom). He showed you he had spellstutter the game before, this is the card that you're complaining about, he passes turn 2 without a drop (how often does Merfolk do that -- and when Merfolk does miss a turn 2 drop that, why wouldn't you play it safe?) and you walk into it.

Also, you Brainstorm in response to his counter on your Angel, but then you won’t Daze or Force it (for sure). You should just save the Brainstorm until you can get max effect.

You probably win if you run Wayfarer out instead of Mom, although even with the very costly mistake, he had to have pretty much the perfect set of topdecks to come out on top, with his last three draws all being required to win.


Game 3 you definitely should not get the wasteland on turn 2. You have a bunch of useless lands in hand that you want to ditch with the brainstorm, but you fail to get a fetchland. No reason at all to get a wasteland at all in that situation. It costs you a free land, and drawing back into your crap again after the brainstorm.

You make the same mistake again later, costing you more land tutors. Brainstorm couldawouldashoulda been Ancestral Recall during this game, but it was only a slightly improved ponder.

The turn starting @ 6:00 should have started with your draw step. You see what you get (like if it's jitte, you can play a jitte around the daze for the game). Wasting early for no reason, then tutoring for no reason cost you the potential to jiquip.

You should SFM in the Jitte. If he has Daze or Force, you lose from that situation. It turns out he doesn't, so you get away with one. Great play with the blocks, lesser players would have missed that Angel stays pro blue and that four counters kills a lord which shrinks the other creature so that your three power Angel gets the kill. Also, the other sacrifice block was important (when would Fathom Seer be worth more than 5 life, anyway?). If you miss any of that, you lose. You saw all of it, and you win. That's called play skill.


Game 4: What is going on? Why are you keeping Spell Pierce? Why are you not cracking your fetchland so that you'll have to draw a crappy spell you didn't want to draw? Why did you pass the turn into stifle? Why are you wasting a second Brainstorm after wasting the first Brainstorm?

With audio commentary, it probably would have been more entertaining, because I would have been able to see what you were looking for, but I mean, you waste two brainstorms, keep the wrong cards, and you end up with bad cards because of it. GG.



Game 5: 1:23 you should fetch for tundra immediately. Why don't you replay the tundra to fetch again? Oh yeah, because you want to cash in for 1 damage, because Necropotence taught us that 1 life is worth more than a card.

After a play mistake like that, the way that the game should have gone is so drastically different from the way that the game does go that it's hard even to evaluate what could have happened. The mistake later costs you another land when you can't tutor (again) because you want to play Vial (Vial was the correct play then, but it's just apparent how much the mistake cost you since Wayfarer just sits idle when it should have gotten you enough card advantage to blow past your mulligan disadvantage to win easily).

Thankfully he's Merfolk, so all your guys are better and and even with the mulligan and the play mistake, you still win it. We don't have to speculate so much (although there is a point when you're hoping to draw more lands, even though you lost your Wayfarer earlier in the game, don't get any, go for Fathom Seer and watch it die to Daze. Again, not a mistake to play the Seer, but you should have had extra lands and the Seer should have just come down safely). I guess it's more interesting this way than if you just blow Merfolk out every game.


Game 6: Why don't you Spell Pierce the Vial? What else is Spell Pierce going to do in this matchup? You have dead mana and no way to wait for Spell Pierce anyway. I don't see any reason not to Spell Pierce it, although it looks like you win this one, so whatever.

Actually, sure enough, it costs you the game as he uses up basically every mana he has the next four turns with some runner-runner action off the Vial to win the race. GG luck, but he shouldn't have had the opportunity to vomit his hand (or at least should have been challenged to sac his Cursecatcher, which is probably a mistake from that board position).



I think with perfect play, that would have been 6-0, maybe 5-1.

There were two games that he just drew extremely well (games 2 and 6) where he plays out exactly every card in his hand to get there without drawing any bad cards, and the play mistakes that got you there were more advanced, so maybe the final score would have been 4-2 if you'd played pretty well, but not great. But certainly the wins should have been more blowouty and the losses should have been much closer and more lucksacky.

The games all looked pretty close, but you really missed opportunities to pull away. I pointed out the obvious/indisputable ones (you might be aware of some or most of them before I pointed them out, but you can actually watch how those mistakes kept the game close or even tipped the game for your opponent).


So I know the counterargument is that you're probably better than your Merfolk opponent anyway, and that the Merfolk player made mistakes, too. That would have tipped the balance back. In Game 3, he had a really questionable no-swing that probably cost him the game (if I remember correctly, I was mainly watching the UW Tempo side).

But Merfolk doesn't typically get hard decisions that really matter. I don't really think that UW Tempo has a whole lot of decisions (but that's only after playing it for quite a while where most things are automated), but the skills to play Merfolk are a subset of the skills to play UW Tempo.

Specifically @ Tinefol: Other than the UW Tempo parts of the game, you played it extremely clean. Your combat phases were all excellent. You didn't miss any triggers, vial opportunities, you had pretty good game sense, and you even came up with the tough blocks. If you'd played against yourself, you probably would have played a nearly perfect Merfolk set and then a poor UW Tempo set and the score would have been 5-5.

But you consistently made costly mistakes playing the UW Tempo cards (Wayfarer and Brainstorm, in particular).


Wayfarer: You have to use it and keep using it. Land is ALWAYS useful, thinning is useful (but hard to quantify), but if you get a Wayfarer out, you should not be missing land drops because you don't have lands. You should always be looking to use Wayfarer to draw cards. Occasionally you should pass this, but only if a monstrously better play comes out or if you're under extreme time pressure.

If you have extra lands lying around, Brainstorm becomes so amazing. Brainstorm becomes Ancestral Recall. It becomes a must-force that people forget that they must-force.

That segues perfectly into the other problem area: Brainstorm use.

First off: Spell Pierce is pretty bad in the Merfolk matchup, especially after turn 1 when they already have the Vial in play, and ESPECIALLY after they pass the Standstill turn (although it's quite hard to spell pierce a standstill). After that, you can only use it if you get lucky as shit. If you could Spell Pierce them casting a retarded midget with only one leg, then you do it. Merfolk in general play creatures (SP can't hit) and play basics, so you can't mana screw them back to where Spell Pierce can stop their spells.

If you can't Spell Pierce something, then it's near the top of the list for stuff you put back. Extra lands, extra-extra Jittes (one extra is fine), then Spell Pierces all go back (unless you already have the matching Force of Will and there's other bad stuff).

Then you shuffle instead of not shuffling.


I guess it comes down to like understanding the Merfolk matchup percentage. It’s damn good, like 70% or better between two good players.

In matchups that are more hairy, you can use Brainstorms like, "Hmm, if I get lucky here, and get the Swords/Jitte/X, I can win the game easily.”

In Merfolk, you should just save it until you have two dead cards and a fetchland. There’s no rush to play it earlier, and with Brainstorm you’ll blow past them as they eat up extra land draws and you get rid of yours.

In general, you should play to dull out the Merfolk matchup. You don’t want ANY sharp plays where they can win it straight up if they have the right juice, even if the gamble gives you a big edge. That means you play around Daze, especially with cards like Swords, and you play for a long game where your better everything lets you win. That also means you play mainly Plains when you can get away with it and try to have Wastelands to match your Tundras. You want to sharpen up tougher matchups, especially when you think you’ve got the goods, but play it safe against Merfolk and you’ll win almost every game.



Blah, this post meandered into a wall of text, but basically: UW Tempo is a new set of skills. Just like any deck, mistakes cost games, although UW Tempo is pretty forgiving (that's why people have been winning more than 70% of their matches, even inexperienced players who are almost certainly missing strategical decisions if not outright missing board tricks).

Still, UW Tempo plays a number of cards you (and your opponents) have never seen before, so if you practice you'll get an even higher win percentage.

Quickly: thanks for the detailed comment, I'd even have to add that my mistake in game 6 is a lot more complex; not only I didn't use Spell Pierce for Vial (which is obvious idiocy), I didn't plan the game to take what advantage of it that I could. Actually I should have ramped up to 4 lands (had the opportunity) and casted Jitte with Pierce back up when he was tapped. Instead, I walked into a FoW, I didn't use Pierce for Vial (wtf?) and then lost. Jitte would have destroyed him that game.

I'll add more later.

Short note on my first take with UW Tempo
Played this deck at a 34 man, 6-rounds swiss standings tourney tuesday.

I only received the cards for this deck same day as turney, so sleeved up the deck 20 mins before start of turney - so never even goldfishet the deck before:)

Went 4-1-1 (actually 5-1 but last round i ID'et with my friend so we would both get top 4 prices)
Only lost to a bant-order with top-balance lock, who went 6-0 on the day. This match could have gone my way as well, but screwed g3.

I won first 2 rounds against 2x rogue decks thogh, but then beat ANT w/out problems round 3. After loosing g4 i soundly beat 43lands round 5 and ID/won against Zoo round 6.

2-0 Rogue WG aggro
1-0 MB rogue control
2-1 Ant
1-2 bant order
2-1 lands.dec
2-0 /ID Zoo

Will play this again saturday and post my experiences with the deck - hopefully ill be as succesfull then.
I must say it played well, and was easy to play (but i pride myself an an ok legacy player, always in top 15 in ratings in DK)
Can see there are room for improvement in my way to play this deck, but it performed very well i must say.

Besides my incompetence, it still appears that UW tempo has a poor matchup against reanimator.

There's no video of the carnage that ensued because I made an arithmetic error in combat. Apparently even someone who calculates things every day can do that. To anybody actively trying to develop the deck, here are the results:

3-2 against Matt game 1s
1-6 against MasterShaker, in 3 matches

Possibly 2-5, with an unresolved g3 if you want to reverse my mistake, which most definitely turned a win into a loss, with no probability of deviation. I thought about asking to take it back, but I was already too fed up with my own inabilities, so sorry you don't have accurate or fully played out results.

Any results obtained other than the ones above were either not generated by me, or came before the overhaul of the reanimator archetype where they ditched animate dead as an option. (Because it's horrible, and lets us win with aura of silence.)

I suggest running curfew to hose reanimator. You have nothing to lose, because you don't even want 3 of the sideboard slots against the rest of the metagame. The maindeck is well-prepared enough. You should probably also find a way to fit in the 4th curfew just to confirm the kill. Then you can make all the mistakes you want and it probably won't matter. I know I will.

EDIT: Actually fuck taking a break. I want to rip reanimator apart.

I was afraid of doing commentaries, because I probably would sound silly with my not so fluent English, incorrect pronunciation and russian accent. Nevertheless, I might just try next time; going to release some games vs Metalworker Stax somewhere in the future.

G1: nothing to add, I don't think I've misdone anything there.

G2: didn't catch the mom mistake. Indeed it should have been the second wayfarer. Brainstorming was also wrong - you are right there.

I think I've spotted another chain of mistakes:
I shouldn't have FoWed the Reejery into Curscatcher (though it was really a tough call). Curscatcher with one lord (not LOA) is not that threatening. This way I should've topdecked into a fetch I left on top (so I have active FoW), casted Serra and saved Wayfarer for a possible block into a Wasteland search activation.
Also, using Wasteland on his Mutavault during my own turn was just plain wrong (I know he has no Stifles in the deck). I really should have waited for his play, even if it wouldn't change much (and it could).

G3: I really should have looked for a fetch with first Wayfarer activation instead of Wasteland. Not only it would have saved me another activation, but I also could have abused the Brainstorm. There was no reason casting Brainstorm after that, but I did.
I shouldn't outright StP every lord that I see (I need to think of it, where as I didn't). I only should do so, if it would greatly benefit me, also I should think of not running into Spellstutter sprite. StP should be saved for LoA for as long as possible.

You're right again about haste use of Wasteland and Wayfarer activation, I could've waited to see if I topdeck jitte or something, and if not apply the same effect. I didn't catch that. I also didn't "forge" Jitte, as I should. I think I've estimated he has no counter, and I'd save a possible blocker. Obviously a wrong call. Didn't catch that either. Bummer.

G4: I think I've had that mentality of Spell is better than land (which I have an excess of), and somehow I'd be able to use it on FoW or somehting. Probably a wrong call. I think I've misevaluated Spell Pierce in this match up. I indeed wasted my brainstorms into nothing. What the hell I was doing?

G5: I've used Wasteland, instead of fetching with Wayfarer, because I thought he's somewhat mana screwed and I should emphasize on it. Apparently not only I was wrong about that; it was a wrong play as well. You're absolutely right there.

G6: already mentioned it.

I'm still learning how to play the deck. I think I'll improve over the time.

Regarding the Zoo matchup, would the Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek combo be any good?

It could be tutorable with ET and Stoneforge Mystic, but maybe it would not be worth the slots or mana. What do you think?

Wait, what's up with Vexing Sphinx?

I once thought about suggesting it, as agressive beater that could "cycle" your lands.

"The most important aspect is that you can put the age counter on BEFORE deciding whether or not to sac the creature. So if you choose NOT to discard 3 cards, then you draw 3 instead."

But then I realized that if it's Plow'ed/Path'ed you get no cards. So what's the line of play here? Against decks packing that you swing only once and upon the second counter being place you sac it and draw 2? Losing 4 cards to a single cards looks so bad!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alderon666

Wait, what's up with Vexing Sphinx?

I once thought about suggesting it, as agressive beater that could "cycle" your lands.

"The most important aspect is that you can put the age counter on BEFORE deciding whether or not to sac the creature. So if you choose NOT to discard 3 cards, then you draw 3 instead."

But then I realized that if it's Plow'ed/Path'ed you get no cards. So what's the line of play here? Against decks packing that you swing only once and upon the second counter being place you sac it and draw 2? Losing 4 cards to a single cards looks so bad!

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This card has been on my radar for a very long time, and I've always been aware you can squeeze a card out of it more than most people would expect. Against swords, you play conservatively. You should only be pitching bad stuff. Sac it as soon as you'd have to pitch more than one good thing. Of course you can have mom too. Only the decks running swords and a way to remove mom are trouble, and even then they have to draw the perfect combination and be able to fight off countermagic. Besides that, you can brainstorm away the sphinx or pitch it to FOW if you're worried, and at worst sideboard it out, which is called for only a few times in my sideboarding plans. (And usually only because everything in the deck is good, but there was nothing better to cut.)

i think i may have to try the sphinx I like the body and the potential to recycle all those extra lands i tyend to end up with into more cards, even if it is at a loss of total cards in hand. but he is a terribad topdeck should your hand run slim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steveo356

i think i may have to try the sphinx I like the body and the potential to recycle all those extra lands i tyend to end up with into more cards, even if it is at a loss of total cards in hand. but he is a terribad topdeck should your hand run slim

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Yeah, total cards in hand is useless. Total good cards in hand is a better but still rough approximation of what matters.

Why would your hand ever run thin? Do you not sandbag your lands? (Find a balance with fathom seer. The balance is usually 4 lands in play.)

First time playing the deck tonight in a tournament. I went 1-3, but I still loved playing the deck and will keep trying. There were a couple of play mistakes on my end and some bad draws but overall I got a good "vibe" from the deck.

Best 2 reactions from opponents:

1. (After Game 1 against ANT) "I have no idea what you're playing"
2. (After playing Seer morphed) "Ah...Angel?"

This is what I ran:

// Lands
2 [MI] Plains (3)
1 [MI] Island (4)
4 [B] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [TE] Wasteland
3 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Creatures
4 [CHP] Serra Avenger
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
3 [TSP] Fathom Seer

// Spells
3 [NE] Daze
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 3 [LRW] Burrenton Forge-Tender
SB: 3 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 3 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist

A little bit of a deviation from the "established" list.

I still kept a 3rd Grunt in the SB as extra beats, and maindeck -1 Fathom Seer and +1 Spell Pierce. Absolutely love SP in just about every deck I play. Added the 3rd Stoneforge Mystic instead of a 3rd maindeck grunt or singleton White Orchid Knight.

Round 1 - vs. Life.dec
0-2

Game 1 - He drops 2 early Vials before I can disrupt. He gets two clerics and diamond valley online to get 3 gazillion life. I scoop.

Game 2 - This one went a long time. He keeps Swordsing my Jitte carrying men until he gets the infinite life combo going. I did have 2 Wastelands on the board but tapped out to play AOS - wrong move. He goes off on his turn and we almost go to time. I get something like 15 jitte counters but it doesn't matter. In the end he used some power/toughness switching shenanigans to do massive direct damage to me.

Round 2 - vs. LED-less Dredge
2-0

Game 1 - Bad luck on his part, he mulls to 4. I get Jitte beats going early and get there.

Game 2 - Side in the full haterator package. He gets a bit of early dredge action going but Wheel soon stops him. He goes for Grave Troll beats but Mom keeps him at bay while I Jitte him to death.

Round 3 - vs. ANT
1-2

Game 1 - I know what he's playing. I mull to 5 trying to get some Forces. I can't justify going down to 4 and try to bluff counters, thinking my brainstorms will let me dig. He goes off on the 5th or 6th turn with me holding a handful of creatures. This game was quite long, would cost me in Game 3.

Game 2 - The combo hate goes in. I waste many turns trying to keep mana open and not wanting to tap out to play anything. It turns out that he's having trouble finding his pieces. After he gets Top out, I finally find my 2nd mana source and hardcast E-Canonist. Thorn follows soonafter and I beat him down with Jitte'd Canonist.

Game 3 - Almost goes to time. We go to last 5 turns. I get AOS going. He has to read the card - always a good sign. I make a critical mistake by not Spell Piercing his Chant, thinking that he's got the 2 mana. Little did I realize that doing so would have not allowed him to go off - GG me. He Nauseams down to 3 life and manages to kill me.

I'm really peeved about this one. Had I not screwed up Game 3 I could have at least gotten a draw as we went to time. Instead I rushed my decisions and blew a play.

Round 4 - vs. Lands
0-2

Game 1 - I don't see Wayfarer the whole game. We spend an endless amount of time doing nothing before I realize I should scoop. I prepare for Game 2.

Game 2 - Sided in severe graveyard hate. Didn't see any of the hate cards. He gets down 3 Explorations and a Manabond. I don't see any counters. Another long game, he surprises me by Ghost Quarter'ing my basics. On the flip side, he is surprised at the versatility of Wayfarer, and suggests I pick up some Japanese foils instead of the Chinese non-foils I have. In the end he recurs Mindslaver and I die.

Final Thoughts

It's weird to say this - but despite the 1-3 record I didn't feel like a severe underdog in the matchups. In fact I felt that with more familiarity and a little better luck the outcome could've been different. I liked the composition of the SB - I got to use every card in it. Certainly the deck feels like it has the tools to handle a wide range of matchups. I had to go to time in 2 rounds, but that's due to the nature of the decks and some less-than-ideal draws. I'll definitely try this again next month.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Plague Sliver

First time playing the deck tonight in a tournament. I went 1-3, but I still loved playing the deck and will keep trying. There were a couple of play mistakes on my end and some bad draws but overall I got a good "vibe" from the deck.

Best 2 reactions from opponents:

1. (After Game 1 against ANT) "I have no idea what you're playing"
2. (After playing Seer morphed) "Ah...Angel?"

This is what I ran:

// Lands
2 [MI] Plains (3)
1 [MI] Island (4)
4 [B] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [TE] Wasteland
3 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Creatures
4 [CHP] Serra Avenger
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
3 [TSP] Fathom Seer

// Spells
3 [NE] Daze
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 3 [LRW] Burrenton Forge-Tender
SB: 3 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 3 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist

A little bit of a deviation from the "established" list.

I still kept a 3rd Grunt in the SB as extra beats, and maindeck -1 Fathom Seer and +1 Spell Pierce. Absolutely love SP in just about every deck I play. Added the 3rd Stoneforge Mystic instead of a 3rd maindeck grunt or singleton White Orchid Knight.

Round 1 - vs. Life.dec
0-2

Game 1 - He drops 2 early Vials before I can disrupt. He gets two clerics and diamond valley online to get 3 gazillion life. I scoop.

Game 2 - This one went a long time. He keeps Swordsing my Jitte carrying men until he gets the infinite life combo going. I did have 2 Wastelands on the board but tapped out to play AOS - wrong move. He goes off on his turn and we almost go to time. I get something like 15 jitte counters but it doesn't matter. In the end he used some power/toughness switching shenanigans to do massive direct damage to me.

Round 2 - vs. LED-less Dredge
2-0

Game 1 - Bad luck on his part, he mulls to 4. I get Jitte beats going early and get there.

Game 2 - Side in the full haterator package. He gets a bit of early dredge action going but Wheel soon stops him. He goes for Grave Troll beats but Mom keeps him at bay while I Jitte him to death.

Round 3 - vs. ANT
1-2

Game 1 - I know what he's playing. I mull to 5 trying to get some Forces. I can't justify going down to 4 and try to bluff counters, thinking my brainstorms will let me dig. He goes off on the 5th or 6th turn with me holding a handful of creatures. This game was quite long, would cost me in Game 3.

Game 2 - The combo hate goes in. I waste many turns trying to keep mana open and not wanting to tap out to play anything. It turns out that he's having trouble finding his pieces. After he gets Top out, I finally find my 2nd mana source and hardcast E-Canonist. Thorn follows soonafter and I beat him down with Jitte'd Canonist.

Game 3 - Almost goes to time. We go to last 5 turns. I get AOS going. He has to read the card - always a good sign. I make a critical mistake by not Spell Piercing his Chant, thinking that he's got the 2 mana. Little did I realize that doing so would have not allowed him to go off - GG me. He Nauseams down to 3 life and manages to kill me.

I'm really peeved about this one. Had I not screwed up Game 3 I could have at least gotten a draw as we went to time. Instead I rushed my decisions and blew a play.

Round 4 - vs. Lands
0-2

Game 1 - I don't see Wayfarer the whole game. We spend an endless amount of time doing nothing before I realize I should scoop. I prepare for Game 2.

Game 2 - Sided in severe graveyard hate. Didn't see any of the hate cards. He gets down 3 Explorations and a Manabond. I don't see any counters. Another long game, he surprises me by Ghost Quarter'ing my basics. On the flip side, he is surprised at the versatility of Wayfarer, and suggests I pick up some Japanese foils instead of the Chinese non-foils I have. In the end he recurs Mindslaver and I die.

Final Thoughts

It's weird to say this - but despite the 1-3 record I didn't feel like a severe underdog in the matchups. In fact I felt that with more familiarity and a little better luck the outcome could've been different. I liked the composition of the SB - I got to use every card in it. Certainly the deck feels like it has the tools to handle a wide range of matchups. I had to go to time in 2 rounds, but that's due to the nature of the decks and some less-than-ideal draws. I'll definitely try this again next month.

---

Forgive me for being direct, but it sounds like you didn't believe me when I asserted that 4 ways to get to a jitte were enough. You never want two equipments. You cut a seer for an SFM. With my list, which is by now quite different from yours because I found out how to fill those question slots (Vexing sphinx, it's been doing amazing.) I typically have no problem with the decks you posted. I dropped a match vs. ANT today, but that's having won my last like... can't even remember, estimating about 10 matches?

I raped lands today, dredge is easy, and life should probably be easy, but also isn't that good of a deck. You have wasteland for the starlit sanctum, countermagic for the 2:1 on his sac a creature gain life business, swords for his combo pieces, and jitte to stabilize the lockout. Even if he goes off, you can pull something off with recycling grunts and make him resign to the decking that would take the whole round. (You wastelock him out while decking him so that he can't outrace your FOW drawing with his threat casting.)

There are different local metagames, and I don't think it's a terrible idea to deviate slightly from my lists to play in them. But I think if you're just picking the deck up, it would be better to take a list that has been tested. Generally, I do the same for other decks, where I assume that he creator(s) knew something that I couldn't immediately deduce easily.