[Deck] Elves Combo

Thank you K2thej and PhantomOtter

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Originally Posted by k2thej

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-Leyline is the best card against ctop and counters in general.

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...but a competent player just needs to counter glimpse of nature, which is not protected by the leyline. ?!

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Originally Posted by k2thej

Again though, you should read over the thread because there are a lot of differing opinions on these topics.

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I read a lot, but it is really very complex to follow the different sub-topics. Especially because there is not "search thread" functions. It would be nice to have some sub-threads.

Do you think Summoners pact is much superior over Green Sun's Zenit? When we combo off I think the 1 mana more does not make a difference. But if I have 4 elves in play and only the tutor in the hand, I might want to go for an elf lord and attack next round. This is much easier if I don't have to pay the 4 mana.

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Originally Posted by PhantomOtter

The best defense against board sweepers in my opinion is Caller Of The Claw.
You do your combo the best you can then after you bait them into sweeping you drop that bomb!!!

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I also thougth about it. Since we only want to play 1-2 i guess, it is important to tutor for it. For this Chord of calling would be better than Zenit (instant) and Summoners pact (4 mana in upkeep without elves is tough).

if you face a turn 2 ethersworn canonist, you just concede?. I thougth about spot removal in SB for Living wish, but duplicant or triskelion where the best (expensive) ideas I could come up with. Probably too fancy to think that spot removal is necessary if we have 6-8 mana.

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Originally Posted by catmint

Thank you K2thej and PhantomOtter


...but a competent player just needs to counter glimpse of nature, which is not protected by the leyline. ?!


I read a lot, but it is really very complex to follow the different sub-topics. Especially because there is not "search thread" functions. It would be nice to have some sub-threads.

Do you think Summoners pact is much superior over Green Sun's Zenit? When we combo off I think the 1 mana more does not make a difference. But if I have 4 elves in play and only the tutor in the hand, I might want to go for an elf lord and attack next round. This is much easier if I don't have to pay the 4 mana.
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The leylines are swapped in for glimpse. You also swap out pact and wish for a bunch of creatures. You play an uncounterable aggro deck against top. They can't out aggro you.

The one mana for zenith makes all the difference in the world when starting the combo, and if you reach the point in the combo where mana doesn't matter, you usually don't need to tutor anyway. Thus, summoner's pact is def the right choice. The general point I make is the you don't pact until you combo, excpet in some aggro situations, so there really is no downside to pact.

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Originally Posted by k2thej

The leylines are swapped in for glimpse. You also swap out pact and wish for a bunch of creatures. You play an uncounterable aggro deck against top. They can't out aggro you.

The one mana for zenith makes all the difference in the world when starting the combo, and if you reach the point in the combo where mana doesn't matter, you usually don't need to tutor anyway. Thus, summoner's pact is def the right choice. The general point I make is the you don't pact until you combo, excpet in some aggro situations, so there really is no downside to pact.

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Interesting plan. I checked your decklist and that makes totally sense. Looking forward to testing it.

One thing does not quite make sense yet:
If I understand correctly your plan vs. mass removal is to hold most card back until you win the same turn anyway (helps vs. firespout,....)
but if a ratchet bomb or engineered explosivs is on the board that plan does not help. Anyway, the beauty of playing what you have (4-6 elves) without comboing off is that you can play warcaller/archdruid next turn and swing for a good clock .

Another factor is that if you turn your deck in an aggro deck (vs. landstill/counter-top), you want to get many evles fast on the board and then you would be very vulnerable to firespout or trinket-mage for engeneered explosives, which is very easy for thos decks to establish.

The best answer to both of those problems would be caller of the claw I think. Since you dont have tutors in your aggro version & living wish is a sorcery, you would to run 3-4 in an aggro version of the deck.

what do you think about that?

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Originally Posted by k2thej

The one mana for zenith makes all the difference in the world when starting the combo, and if you reach the point in the combo where mana doesn't matter, you usually don't need to tutor anyway. Thus, summoner's pact is def the right choice. The general point I make is the you don't pact until you combo, excpet in some aggro situations, so there really is no downside to pact.

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I just realised it is not only the 1 mana why pact is better than zenit. If you zenit you dont draw a card for glimpse,...

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Originally Posted by Namida

I understand now. The thought I'm having is that the scenarios where you can't win because of Corrupter's inability to deal damage are more likely to happen than any benefit Corrupter would give from having infect. Even if you've never had it inhibit you, the theory here that it is able to inhibit you in ways that you can circumvent entirely by playing the Shaman in its place should be enough to warrant changing back to the Shaman, in my opinion. Given that you have the experience with the deck and I don't, I might seem like I'm nitpicking a little bit, but I certainly don't want to read your next report to find that you lost any games because you could only deal like 19 damage and 7 poison counters or anything like that.

(Though I understand where you're coming from--I was sorely hoping that you'd be able to name a benefit to Corrupter so I'd have an excuse to play it.)

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There is a fringe reason to play Corrupter; stuff like (infi) lifegain, Worship, etc. Poison as alternate wincondition helps in these (weird) situations. But these might be more likely as not winning due to Poison o the card. That will also happen rarely. And 1 swing can be enough with Ezuri or Warcaller.

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Originally Posted by catmint

Interesting plan. I checked your decklist and that makes totally sense. Looking forward to testing it.

One thing does not quite make sense yet:
If I understand correctly your plan vs. mass removal is to hold most card back until you win the same turn anyway (helps vs. firespout,....)
but if a ratchet bomb or engineered explosivs is on the board that plan does not help. Anyway, the beauty of playing what you have (4-6 elves) without comboing off is that you can play warcaller/archdruid next turn and swing for a good clock .

Another factor is that if you turn your deck in an aggro deck (vs. landstill/counter-top), you want to get many evles fast on the board and then you would be very vulnerable to firespout or trinket-mage for engeneered explosives, which is very easy for thos decks to establish.

The best answer to both of those problems would be caller of the claw I think. Since you dont have tutors in your aggro version & living wish is a sorcery, you would to run 3-4 in an aggro version of the deck.

what do you think about that?

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I would say 3 Caller Of The Claw.

What would anyone think about Brass Herald?

Also, Artificial Evolution against Goblins and Merfolk. I tried it casual before and hacking a Lord Of Atlantis naming elves is histeriacl!

I have played with both caller of the claw and fecundity and in my experience they really don't work. Instead of diluting the deck to give a shoddy answer to a potential sweeper, I found it much more effective to accept some dudes dying, and then relying on a high powered deck to re-establish itself, which is what I designed my build to do. I think you will find that in testing that my build can recover very well from sweepers without any callers/escorts/fecundity etc.

I tested this a LOT, more than any other sideboard card actually since it was my biggest challenge in tournaments, and I found that this was the most effective answer. It maximizes the chances to your opponent them before they can sweep, while simultaneously maximizing the decks potential to recover from sweepers with its original game plan.

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Originally Posted by k2thej

I tested this a LOT, more than any other sideboard card actually since it was my biggest challenge in tournaments, and I found that this was the most effective answer. It maximizes the chances to your opponent them before they can sweep, while simultaneously maximizing the decks potential to recover from sweepers with its original game plan.

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Sorry i just don't get that sentence. :)
The most effective answer is not to care about sweepers but rely on the decks ability to either execute combo or aggro well enough?

Another question i have.
If you play the aggro version you side in 1 renegade leader, 1 viridian shaman and you have 1 warcaller in the main deck.
But you side out the tutors, so they appear to be pretty random. Did you never have the problem of not getting the shaman when you need it.

Did you consider cloudstone curio as "5th glimpse (with visionary)" in the main deck?

You are correct about your interpretation of my sentence. You can race sweepers or you can recover from them.

You side out the tutors to just make your creature count as high as you can. You want your entire deck to be uncounterable. There is enough synergy between the cards that you can aggro them without tutors. If you want to leave in a few you can, but they will most likely counter them if they figure out that you sided out glimpse since they can't counter anything else.

I don't run curio. I don't like it. Others do, but this debate has happened on previous pages.

You do leave in pact when playing against counter top right?

I would agree with maybe only running 1 or 2 Callers but they do make nice tech if you dont run a wish build.
I have found that game 2 they can come in handy. If you can burn them once with it and go to game 3 you will have them wasting or holding sweepers back and allowing yourself to either aggro or recover fairly easy.

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Originally Posted by k2thej

the main annoying combo stoppers are cards like peacekeeper/blazing archon and cards like leyline of sanctity/solitary confinement and the like. Emrakul beats sanctity/solitary and Masticore/tendrills/grapeshot beat peacekeeper/archon. Thus, Emrakul with Masticore in board beats both and the storm kills only beat one. Emrakul/Masticore is the more versatile solution.

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I'm not really concerned with either artifacts or enchantments you'd be facing, as there are several green creatures that can solve that. This is relevant because either Pact or GSZ (and arguably even Natural Order, though I'm not sure I'd want to board in NO, Progenitus plus an answer) could fetch these answers.The point I made is that you can't run Emrakul MD without either wish or storm combo, as there's no tutorable answer. Living Wish can fetch you anything you might need, that's for sure. With your list you'd have to get two wishes mid-combo, because you have Emrakul in your SB as well. I'm not sure how often that turns out for you (as a matter of fact, it doesn't seem unlikely at all), but in that case I'd consider that other Eldrazi instead of Masticore.

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Originally Posted by Shabbaman

I'm not really concerned with either artifacts or enchantments you'd be facing, as there are several green creatures that can solve that. This is relevant because either Pact or GSZ (and arguably even Natural Order, though I'm not sure I'd want to board in NO, Progenitus plus an answer) could fetch these answers.The point I made is that you can't run Emrakul MD without either wish or storm combo, as there's no tutorable answer. Living Wish can fetch you anything you might need, that's for sure. With your list you'd have to get two wishes mid-combo, because you have Emrakul in your SB as well. I'm not sure how often that turns out for you (as a matter of fact, it doesn't seem unlikely at all), but in that case I'd consider that other Eldrazi instead of Masticore.

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Which threats, specifically, are you thinking about in this example? If you are worried about multiple permanents, terrastodon can take care of that.

The leyline and confinement you mentioned, and I'd count Canonist as an artifact as well. But anyway, what I wrote (and more to the point: what you've been pointing out all along about Living Wish) has got me thinking: getting two Wishes out of the deck shouldn't be a problem as I haven't seen getting that single storm spell as a problem before. I still have a playset of Living Wish anyway :)

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Originally Posted by k2thej

You are correct about your interpretation of my sentence. You can race sweepers or you can recover from them.

You side out the tutors to just make your creature count as high as you can. You want your entire deck to be uncounterable. There is enough synergy between the cards that you can aggro them without tutors. If you want to leave in a few you can, but they will most likely counter them if they figure out that you sided out glimpse since they can't counter anything else.

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I tested your idea, but I hated the games where I didn't get Leyline, mulled and didn't appear. It pretty much means GG.

Has your list changed lately? Masticore, and Terastodon in the side?

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

I tested your idea, but I hated the games where I didn't get Leyline, mulled and didn't appear. It pretty much means GG.

Has your list changed lately? Masticore, and Terastodon in the side?

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I hate those games too. Thankfully, they don't happen often.

Masticore and Terastodon are both in the side. The current change I am testing is 3 thorns and a glowrider instead of 4 thorns so one is wishable. Not sure about it though. Still testing.

Hey guys, been out of magic for a while and I decided to start back up playing this deck again. I really love elf combo, and I was one of the people who played this deck at the beginning of this thread. Not saying I am a pro at it or anything, I know a lot has changed. I am glad to see the thread has flourished so much. I really like the Leyline in the board, and the caller of the claw against firespout and such. I think boarding into more lords makes it move much easier as well, at least against other blue decks. They can't stop em all.

Also, I know a probably dumb question, but is everyone using the wish varient now? How is that working for you? I guess I could just test it as well.

Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by k2thej

I hate those games too. Thankfully, they don't happen often.

Masticore and Terastodon are both in the side. The current change I am testing is 3 thorns and a glowrider instead of 4 thorns so one is wishable. Not sure about it though. Still testing.

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in which spot would you whish for a glowrider? If you don't combo off & you have ggggw & you rather don't play regal force next turn or renegade leader?

Turning your deck in an uncounterable aggro deck is nice vs. all decks that counter, but you have to sacrifice a lot of sideboard cards. No gy hate, no artifact/enchanment removal, no protection vs. mass removal. You also sacrifice sideboard spots, because of living whish and the regal force, emrakul, cradle you want to tutor for.
...just wondering if that is really optimal. A lot of testing will show...
what is the meta you are playing in?

My meta is the same as usual. I have merfolk zoo cb tes etc. I live in Washington state so it's very unpredictable like usual. I understand the whole leyline thing in this deck. But in the end we have to choose to fight one battle or the other. I do like caller of the claw in the board but it doesn't justify being there. I believe that running leylines is a great plan against those decks. We can out aggro almost every deck because our engine is so efficient. Also living wish is pretty good in the deck and I rly like it. My old tech against board sweepers was fecundity. It worked really well. But that was also when I maindeckes leylines..

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Originally Posted by catmint

in which spot would you whish for a glowrider? If you don't combo off & you have ggggw & you rather don't play regal force next turn or renegade leader?

Turning your deck in an uncounterable aggro deck is nice vs. all decks that counter, but you have to sacrifice a lot of sideboard cards. No gy hate, no artifact/enchanment removal, no protection vs. mass removal. You also sacrifice sideboard spots, because of living whish and the regal force, emrakul, cradle you want to tutor for.
...just wondering if that is really optimal. A lot of testing will show...
what is the meta you are playing in?

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Ya I was just testing it to see if it would be relevant against combo g1. Turns out it's not really helpful, was worth a shot though.

The Leylines are an incredible use of sb spots. I have played many GY decks in tournaments and after boarding in crypts when I had them, I never drew them and still won every time. We are faster than GY decks and we really do not need the hate at all. The artifact removal is shaman and artifact/enchantment removal is terastodon.

See above for the discussion against mass removal.

I try to design decks for the US meta in general, not to be specific to a region. I think this makes the deck better overall and then if you think you will see more of an archetype at a given tournament you can tweak it before you show up. I think for general discussion of the deck, though, a pulled back approach from the meta is best.

Hey all,

I have a local legacy tournament tonight. I will be running a non wish elf combo deck.
I will post the deck list with report (win or lose).

Any tips for Side Board to make it aggro against countertop would be most helpful!