Really enjoy the lively discussion. Keep up the good work guys!
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Really enjoy the lively discussion. Keep up the good work guys!
Flusterstorm is better at fighting unfair combo decks with countermagic (e.g. they play FOW, daze, misd etc..). Since I expected the combo decks to be Reanimator, High Tide, Sneak and Show it seemed like the right call. Against Jace decks its actually not worse then pierce anyways since it can protect your countermagic. E.g. instead of piercing their jace and FOWing their counter, you can FOW their jace and flusterstorm their counter. Was happy with Flusterstorm and would run the split again, maybe even 2.
EE is the nuts against RUG. But its good against all creature decks (except goblins and even their it isn't terrible since its more outs to vials and lackeys).
Baneslayer won 3 games single handedly. Twice (once UB delver and once maverick) they sided out all of their removal and couldn't race. Against RUG her majesty can't be pierced, flusterstormed or blasted (Which makes her a good threat). She also has a cute interaction with Show and Tell/Sneak Attack and Griselbrand 0_o. Also Goblins lol.
Path's are what made the Merfolk matchup feel good to me.
My issue with this deck's combo matchups is that you don't clock fast enough. hence the VC. Riptide and Karakas make them sweet out of the board as well.
Cool idea on peacekeeper. Not sure if its better then humility (cept maybe against Merfolk).
I played in the SCG: StL Legacy Open this weekend. Ended up 35th (out of 223?) with a 5-2-1 record. If I had slightly better breakers my list would've been in the Top 32, but I didn't see any other dedicated UW Miracle decks in the crowd. I lost second round to the eventual winner, Matt Hoey (1-2). The tournament made me want to run something extra for the control match up--which I feel might be Stoneforge--because I was pushed for time in all of these matches. I was surrounded by Esper Blade and other control mirrors for most of the day. Yargh. I'll try to write up a little report later tonight.
Ill be working on Boardingplans with this new sideboard:
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 EE
2 Peacekeeper
1 Humility
2 Disenchant
1? Elspeth ?
That would be great. I thought we should beat esepr blade, since they dont have a real answer for our CB lock. Mabye the Lingering Souls.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyC27
4 Delver of Secrets, extra Clique? Too bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
Path is ok against folk. The thing is, its fighting for slots with EE. Which would you rather run? I'd prefer EE because it is currently even more fantastic against folk due to their + four 2cc cards. Even @1 it kills vials and cursecatchers which is sorely needed.
Ideally I'd have 2 ee and 2 path sb, but no space at the moment because we really need the combo hate. Clique definitely helps the clock a ton. That's why I'm also playing factories. Having some issues with caverns of souls, not sure if factories should be wastes to mess with cavern. Wasteland is also more relevant than factory against combo.
35th at SCG St. Louis, 5-2-1
Maindeck (60):
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
3 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa
4 Tundra
1 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
2 Wasteland
Sideboard (15):
2 Disenchant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Meddling Mage
2 Path to Exile
2 Pithing Needle
2 Porphyry Nodes
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
Round 1: Reanimator (W, 2-0)
Game 1: He had to mulligan to 4 or 5. Turn 1: Land, Top. Turn 2: Land, CB, he Forces removing Snapcaster (random). Turn 3: Land, play a second CB, and it resolves. I then locked him out of the game with a CB and a Jace.
Game 2: He had to mulligan to 6 this game. I keep mana up for counterspells, eventually EOT a Vendilion Clique on him, and then ride Clique to victory.
Round 2: Esper Stoneblade run by Matt Hoey (L, 1-2)
Game 1: I never got a chance to assemble Counterbalance, and he dropped a lot of Stoneforges on me. At some point, I think some tokens got EE’d. Game one ended up eating at least 15 minutes off the clock. He ended up winning off Jace ultimate.
Game 2: I assemble CB pretty quickly, and proceed to get some marginal advantage off countering his threats. I land a Jace, which I end up running the counters down on to deal with a Stoneforge. After I drop an Elspeth he concedes with about 15 minutes left in the round.
Game 3: Had 2 lands, brainstorm, CB, swords, spell pierce in my opener. Never saw a third land or a Top, and he eventually gets there with Stoneforge, Clique, and Batterskull.
He dropped Stoneforge (in multiples) pretty early every game.
Round 3: BUG Control (L, 0-2)
Game 1: I resolve an early Top/CB, which proves to be irrelevant. He plays a Deed, a Liliana, and Jace. He also gets Loam online. This is definitely a match up I would side CB out for.
Game 2: He resolves a Liliana and Jace again. Seemed like nothing I did really mattered in this match up. Felt pretty one sided because his power cards were all 3 or 4 drops, he had discard, and got Loam online pretty quickly both games.
Round 4: Goblins (W, 2-0)
Game 1: He opens with Vial, which I FOW. Turn 2 he plays Goblin Piledriver, and follows that up Turn 3 with Goblin Guide (which I haven’t seen before). He resolves three or four more goblins, but Swords, Terminus and Snapcaster are able to deal with everything until I can Entreat for 2.
Game 2: More of the same, but I end up Jace ultimating this game. Between the two games I never saw a Goblin Ringleader. Which was good news. :)
Round 5: Esper Stoneblade (D, 1-1-1)
Game 1: I think he EE’d my Angel tokens, and then proceeded to Jace me out.
Game 2: Killed a Geist or two with Terminus. I had him locked out of the game for several turns, but it took some number of turns to find a threat. Most of the time was wasted in this game with him staring at his hand trying to figure out how to beat the CB lock... which I believe is why we ended up in turns.
Game 3: He ticked a Jace up to 13 counters, and then I EOT’d a Clique into play and hit it back down to 7 counters. We go to turns, and he’s unable to kill me while I'm sitting at 1 life.
Round 6: Lands (W, 2-1)
Game 1: Should’ve scooped earlier than I did. Let about 25 minutes run off the clock, before his board state was locked down completely. I kept dinking off life here and there with Entreats and Cliques, but only got him down 5 before he locked me out.
Game 2: Surgical for his control pieces (EE, Glacial Chasm) and Pithing Needle (naming Maze of Ith). There were about 5 minutes left on the clock when this ended.
Game 3: We didn’t have enough time to play out game three because of the clock, but he conceded without me asking. I was just gonna accept the draw, and most likely my shot at cashing. Thankfully he he was tired of playing for the day.
Round 7: The Rock (W, 2-0)
Game 1: Some combination of Swords, Terminus and Snapcaster bought time until I played 3 or 4 Angels off an Entreat at his EOT.
Game 2: Some combination of Path, Swords, Terminus, and a Counterbalance made it safe for Jace to ultimate.
Round 8: Dredge (W, 2-0)
Game 1: He mulligans to 5. I FOW his Careful Study. Spell Pierce an LED, then won off an Entreat for 2.
Game 2: He mulligans to 6. I FOW his opening Careful Study, and Wasteland his Gemstone Mine. He eventually discards a Troll at EOT, which I Surgical. Next turn he discards a Stinkweed Imp, which I Snapcaster the Surgical at. I think this left his deck at 3-4 Dredgers total. I rode Clique and Snapcaster to victory after that.
Some Notes:
* Entreat/Clique (7) finished off more games than Jace (3) or Elspeth (1)
* Spell Pierce in the main seemed pretty good
* Porphyry Nodes was pretty worthless all day (might’ve been different if I had played RUG or Maverick)
* Needle was pretty useful all day
* I got a lot of positive comments for playing quickly even though I was on CB. However, I think this deck can easily suffer from having opponents play slowly against you.
The control matches in rounds 2, 3, 5, and 6 all went right up until turns, or actually went to turns. Not getting to shut my brain off in between rounds seemed less than awesome. Given that, I only made two noteable play mistakes with the deck over eight hours of play – thankfully, neither mistake actually cost me a game. Overall, I wish I had a better way to put pressure on the board earlier than turns 4+ in the control match ups, which is why I might try to inject Stoneforge.
Feel free to ask questions. :)
Why meddling mage? I find the card very risky because if you call the wrong card, it's useless. Do you call sneak or show? Entomb or careful study? Infernal tutor or burning wish? I'd play more flusterstorm or pierces. Since you already main pierce, my pick would be flusterstorm. The card is better against combo.
I have never found Meddling Mage to be that risky. Against Sneak Show, I usually name Show and Tell or Wipe Away, and then Pithing Needle Sneak Attack. I don't bring them in against Reanimator.
So why not flusterstorm? The card is like U- Counter Target Instant or Sorcery Spell, Split Second. It gives opponent's fits especially if you hold on to it as your final counter, a storm 4 Flusterstorm is almost always the end of a counter war.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyC27
You can also board in Flusterstorm against reanimator. Why waste space in the board? Flusterstorm is also very useful in the Control Mirror. It would have helped alot against Jace etc during a counterwar. I actually like flusterstorm more than Spell Pierce in the control mirror because when it's really late in the game, Spell Pierce is really terribad ala Daze. Flusterstorm on the other hand is seldom dead. In a late game counterwar, a high storm Flusterstorm is sick while Spell Pierce gets pitched to force. I always advocate a split of Fluster/Pierce. Pierce is more versatile early in the game while Flusterstorm is the more powerful, though narrower counter. Catching the T1 Entomb with a Fluster is always sweet since they have to double counter it :)
Btw Grats on the good finish!
Thanks! I thought about 2x Flusterstorm in the board, but it would've been a last second change and those usually hurt me more than help me. I stuck with the Mages because they could give me a random answer to stuff I didn't expect, especially in a big field--Thopter Foundry, etc. I'll give the Flusterstorms a whirl in my upcoming locals, they seem good since my biggest annoyance of the day was with control.
Someone please elaborate on Timely Reinforcements and Porphyry Nodes, please. These are the last two possible sideboard inclusions I am looking into.
Leaving for Ghent on Thursday, will be doing some last minute playtesting in Belgium, but would be really great to hear you experiences, especially on Nodes against Maverick and Timely Reinforcements against Swarm Aggro.
I played against Maverick with Nodes during my last tournament, and it was quite awesome. I only ran one copy, but whenever I drew it, it would either dominate the board or buy me a ton of time, both of which are really good in this deck. Sure, its not very good vs. a bazillion dudes on the other side, but it can handle a few beaters if you accompany it with some counters or other removal. I'm considering going up to 2 copies SB.
Can't elaborate on Reinforcements, brought it in vs. RWB Zombies, drew it, but killed him without having to cast it (or it was Thoughtseized away, can't quite remember).
Timely is nuts against any swarm or burn deck. I was playtesting against U/R Delver and he got me to three life just before I was able to stabilize. I top decked a Timely with him tapped out. Cast it and go up to 9 life... He sighs and continues the game. Next turn I snapcaster and cast it again... He scoops. That's just how good it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
6 life is huge in Legacy. It's about a third of your starting life, and if a deck is going to kill you in 6 turns, that means you have about 2 more turns - that's not counting the blockers. It can get you up to 4 turns to deal with the board state. That's insane with a deck running Top and shuffle effects!
I have no experience with nodes. To me it looks slow and clunky. I'm not sure I understand the usefulness. Does it target? Can mom protect the babies?
Thanks for all the input thus far, you guys are great! TR looks really promising. Nodes might actually turn out too slow. Regarding your question, it does not target, therefore Mom can't protect anything from it.
So here's the problem: how do I get two foil Timely Reinforcements until Saturday???
I used to play timely reinforcements in Stoneblade. Mainly because there was no countertop in Stoneblade. Control decks have a bad time against burn or really fast aggro decks. If you expect ur delver and burn, it's a great fit. However its not as critical anymore because this deck runs countertop. If you can stabilize early, countertop can stop most of the burn to your face.
It's still a solid card, but pretty narrow.
I'm with you Ivanpei. TR is nice. In a given Meta. I do not expect Ghent to be that kind of meta though. It doesn't do anything vs Maverick and helps only little vs Canadian. I'd suggest to play some EEs in that spot, as they are more useful against the (probably) most played deck --> Canadian Threshold. I woulnd't worry about UR / R with this deck in addition. Vs Merfolk it doesn't seem too supergood too - vs Goblins - no idea, havn't played the MU yet. Conclusio: Play something else in this spot.
Greetings
In Amsterdam, I was playing 50% of my matches against any kind of Stoneblade. Name a sideboard card you'd specifically want against that matchup!
Vendilion CliqueQuote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Disenchant
Manriki-Gusari (fringe and only in Stoneblade shells to begin with)