[Deck] Painter-Stone

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Originally Posted by Noctalor

Simply, you can stifle dreadnought's ability and get it to stick

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Or, in Colo's list, use vision charm to "phase out" the dreadnaught in response to sac trigger, which also keeps him on the board. Stifle and vision charm are basically interchangeable for this purpose.

@colo: I certainly was not suggesting you would use stifle as mana denial. It serves multiple other functions in the format. Things to stifle: wasteland, stoneforge, griselbrand activation, miracle trigger, rec sage trigger, pernicious deed activation, etc. Having said that, I honestly think either stifle or vision charm are fine. Probably depends on your meta. As for blood moon, I really think you will find them invaluable in the current meta, especially against some of the most popular decks in the format (pile, grixis, eldrazi). There is a reason so many miracles players are currently playing Back to Basics.

I was curious about your counter package (3 FoW, 3 blast, 2 misdirection) so I added it to my deck and played it at this week's LGS tourney....hated it :eek:
There were just too many times I wished misdirection was a FoW. However, I do think a miser's copy of misdirection wouldn't be bad as a "5th FoW" as it sometimes does function as a "gotcha" card and those are always fun. Also, misdirection was decent in the tempo matchups like delver and pile where it can redirect a piece of removal. But for any of the other decks that are either combo or more permanent based, it was really bad. It may be good at a large tourney where you would expect to play against a lot of delver and pile decks. For now I am going to switch to 4 FoW, 3 blast, 1 misdirection and see how that goes.

I did recently add 2 copies of Lim-dul's Vault to my list, cutting the Search for Azcanta and a Liliana. I was really having trouble finding my combo pieces in a timely fashion despite the cantrips so I wanted more of a "tutor" effect. These have honestly been fantastic so far. I have found bridges against reanimator and show and tell decks, artifact removal against chalices, or specialized creature removal (particularly toxic deluge) when needed, not to mention the combo pieces. The card also has some interesting synergies with grindstone (on self), liliana and welder. Yes, it's a little bit of card disadvantage just like most tutors, but it's the closest thing to vampiric tutor that someone can play in a deck. And in my list vampiric tutor is a pretty good card. Feels a lot like enlightened tutor in the old painter lists except it can be for any card and you don't have to show it to your opponent. You can also play around things like predict. Definitely recommend people try it if they are in the right colors.

I've been experimenting with different Painter variants for the past 14 months or so, mostly Rwb and Rbw. Planeswalker heavy Rbw seemed to work best, but losing games because you draw too many or too few lands is a bit demoralizing, and so the access to Brainstorm in combination with being inspired by your posts here I decided to try a blue based list again. I'll try to provide the rough reasoning of how I put the deck together, it was supposed to be short but quickly grows when thoughts are put into words. And it somehow all fits together so it's hard to know where to start. Btw, I'm adding this to hopefully provide something interesting back for all the nice posts I've been reading here. I'm of course very inspired by your posts and decks..

Some of the cards I like to have access to are Smuggler's Copter, Goblin Welder, Daretti and/or Kolaghan's Command, and sideboard Engineered Plague (the only reliable way I can ever come up with to have some chance vs Elves).

Why? Copter digs for the combo while also pressuring opposing planeswalkers and the opponent's life total, this duality is really valuable and puts opponents on defense. Also, the opponent can usually not interact with the Copter so you can usually land a creature to pressure their planeswalkers (with quasi-haste), and planeswalkers seem very important in the meta now, just my opinion and may be based on local meta. Goblin Welder is of course very good with Copter. I wish I had some unfair artifact to cheat into play using these two cards and the blue tutors, more on that in a second, but I don't know what would be good enough (and I don't want to spend multiple slots, some examples are Wurmcoil Engine, Sundering Titan, Platinum Angel, Platinum Emperion, Inkwell Leviathan, Batterskull - maybe Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek is enough). I could see the fourth Welder being turned into a Ponder, but for now I prefer trying to overload opponent's removal, the Welder can crew Copter too which brings you closer to whatever you were looking for.

Daretti and Kolaghan's command both provide win conditions, one brings back combo elements and the other triples some key cards in your deck. More importantly, they both answer troublesome cards like Chalice, Null Rod, Jitte, Aether Vial, Deathrite and Delver. Daretti also deals with trouble makers like Gurmag Angler and Knight of the Reliquary. And both cards help create extra creatures to crew the Copters.

I also want to play some number of Baleful Strix since (you already know this) it makes Welder into a card advantage engine while also helping with both FoW count and getting bodies to crew the Copter, also protects planeswalkers and buys time vs Grixis Delver which is of course the number one deck to prepare for.

Playing Baleful Strix makes sol lands really difficult to play, so I decided to skip those. When not playing sol lands, the value of an early Grindstone is much lower, also blue has great tutors for Grindstone so I decided to replace copies no 2-4 with other tutors, one of each: Trinket Mage, Intuition, Transmute Artifact. They each have their advantages. Trinket Mage feels great because it crews copter, gets the combo piece and adds blue count for FoW. Because of Trinket Mage I also wanted one other card, at least, to get with it, and having played Esper Bomberman I've learned how valuable G1 Pithing Needle can be, so that was my choice. However I think Nihil Spellbomb would be great too, more on that in a second (nah, will have to save that for later). Intuition is great because if the opponents taps out, you can collect the entire combo with an active welder at EOT. I think it can also be useful to get 3 Copter and/or Strix for general grinding ability especially with active Welder. And Transmute lets you get Grindstone into play through Chalice and Rest in Peace or Surgical, similarly gets Bridge or Helm through RiP and Surgical. It seems good to run one of each. Intuition is probably significantly worse in g2 and 3.

I wanted to play one Misdirection because there are so many fair decks in my meta, and few unfair, even fewer t1 combo decks and vs the other combodecks pyroblast is good or great (and improves of course when Painter enters the battlefield). Hymn is very common and having a good answer (Misdirection) to that is great, similarly TNN is popular and hard to interact with. So, Misdirection not only trades 2 for 2 while protecting your combo and removing their offenses, it also stops one of Piles most troublesome card advantage cards in Hymn and is effectively a FoW in a counterwar. I think games are usually won by whoever grinds better (which probably guided many choices when putting this version together) so it makes sense to not overextend on FoW's or other card pieces with card disadvantage. So, I want a deck that can grind well but also threaten to combo. Threatening the combo forces opponents to play reactively and board into card disadvantage cards, perhaps (well, you would know better than me). Like Drude1 says, boarding into a planeswalker deck seems pretty good too, but having 1 Grindstone in the deck with 4 flexible tutors is a very low cost. ... however, I can see how Misdirection can potentially be too weak in some matchups which would force me to replace it.

The Search for Azcanta is a bit random; it works well with Welder, provides multiple turns of card filtering and offers late game card advantage which supports both the combo and control parts of the deck. I think it seemed too good to replace it with a Ponder, but I'm not sure.

Grim Lavamancer is another input from the updated Shortcake build, together with Copter+Welder, and since it deals with Deathrite and Delver while also being a good threat vs Elves and DnT etc. And since we need cheap creatures that crew Copter. Can also pressure planeswalkers and finish games. It's hard to reach a reasonable creature count without this one. Not playing sol lands make the Imperial Recruiters too slow, I think. Could perhaps play one.

Inventor's fair was chosen because it's a good middle ground of an extra land, life gainer and tutor. I could also see it being an artifact land, giving Trinket Mage an extra use and providing extra mana to the deck.

So, here is the list. I was still weighing a lot of cards carefully but from here I guess testing will have to guide my decisions. Your input of course welcome. I played it in this week's lgs legacy event, went 2-2. Both lost matches were very tight. I may add a short description at the end of this post later. In short, one game vs Sneak and Show was lost because I lacked 1 mana to active Helm and opponent topdecks into ponder, shuffle, SnT (and I have no land in hand but on top of library there is). The other game was lost to a few small creatures having drawn first red mana at 4 life and having 2 Lavamancers, 1 Kolaghan's Command and 1 Daretti in hand.

Creatures: 16 (+2 Daretti)
Artifacts: 13 (+2 Daretti)
Blue cards: 15

The 0's are some cards I've been considering.

4 Pyroblast
2 Kolaghan's command
2 Force of will
1 Misdirection
0 Lightning bolt
0 Abrade

2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
0 Liliana, the Last Hope
0 Jace, the mind sculptor

4 Brainstorm
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Transmute artifact
1 Intuition

1 Grindstone
1 Pithing needle
3 Smuggler's copter
1 Ensnaring bridge

2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Goblin welder
2 Grim lavamancer
3 Baleful strix
4 Painter's servant
1 Trinket mage
0 Snapcaster mage

19 lands:
2 Underground sea
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic island
1 Tropical island
4 Polluted delta
3 Scalding tarn
2 Bloodstained mire
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Inventors' fair

sb:
1 Red elemental blast
2 Blood moon
2 Engineered plague
1 Notion thief
1 Invasive surgery
1 Thoughtseize
3 Leyline of the void
1 Helm of obedience
1 Sorcerous spyglass
1 Bitterblossom
1 Meekstone

I'll add a few comments about the sideboard too.

The Leylines help with the lower amount of FoW's, most decks that regularly require t0/t1 interaction are graveyard based, and those that are not well we have at least 2 FoW's. Also, vs decks that use Eldrazi a quick win can be very valuable, this I believe is true vs both Sneak and Show, Big Eldrazi and Cloudpost, and Leyline enables both Helm and Grindstone wins. I also worry a little bit about Punishing Fire and Leyline helps vs that.

Invasive Surgery is there over Flusterstorm because of Elves. I can see that the Storm matchup needs a few more cards though, not sure what to do.

Meekstone seems like not the strongest card but I think the popularity of Grixis Delver motivates it, stopping Delver, TNN and Gurmag with a single one mana card that we can tutor for seems very good. Also good vs Eldrazi and other big creature decks. I consider this quite flexible, maybe it should be an Arcane Laboratory of a Trinisphere.

Bitterblossom is another flexible slot, I like bringing in grindy cards vs grindy decks that need to respect our combo potential, it also helps vs planeswalkers and crews Copters. It's a good option vs Pile and Miracles, relevant vs anything with Marit Lage, gets under bridge, works against Null Rod and Chalice.. I've just been a big Bitterblossom fan over the last year or so and it seems to fit here, but it could be something vs Storm for example.

Notion Thief is added because it interacts well with Elves, always a tough matchup, and I think a pyroblast or two can slow down combodecks forcing them to cantrip and when they do that Notion Thief can swing the game, also stops Griselbrand from Drawing.. Maybe too slow and vulnerable, not sure. But we have many creatures that the opponent probably wants to destroy. Could be something else.

Sorry for having updated this post many times shortly after posting, I wasn't planning on writing so much..

@drude1: Sorry to read you had a bad experience running Misdirection - I've had a satisfying 4-0 last week at my LGS again (and the card performed admirably once again), and I still stand and swear by it ;) I don't know how Painter-Stone players usually approach the game, but I tend to prioritize the combo over everything else (unless I know my opponent has Emrakul), and I find the counter configuration I run to be very supportive of that strategy. Maybe Misdirection is a worse fit for lists that put a stronger focus on alternative, more control-ish game-plans.

I've always been in love with Lim-Dul's Vault since I've seen it in a DDFT list a few years back and what an absurdly strong selection engine it can be - I'm pretty certain I'd play it too if my list were running black.

I got my first copy of Transmute Artifact last week, and I'm planning on adopting it as a one-of for testing purposes. It seems like a very versatile card to get around Chalice of the Void and Sanctum Prelate; if it's convincingly strong, it could cause me to re-evaluate Engineered Explosives (because only being able to transmute into Explosives for 0 seems weaker than potential alternatives like Ratchet Bomb).

I had a reasonable run with the deck again in last week's LGS legacy event (list 2 posts above), going 2-1-1. Had much fun playing it. Copter is still great, if you didn't try it I suggest you do so.

Omnisneak 2-1
Moon Stompy 1-2
Miracles (RiP + Helm in the board) 2-1
Infect 1-1-1

The loss was tight and I did make a mistake (and lost one game to a clear mulligan but I was curious to try it out). There were many relevant modes on Kolaghan's Command in a specific situation, I should have returned a Welder to be able to put a second creature into play next turn and potentially turn the game around but instead lost by small margins.

The draw was as close to a win as it could be, he finished t5 of time on 1 life with no creatures in play and no more castable cards in the deck (due to Blood Moon) and me with Kolaghan's Command in hand (and no black mana source) and 4 creatures in play. I was feeling bad for this deck working so well vs his deck (t1 Lavamancer every game) and then played a bit too defensively, could have finished it earlier.

I made a small change: adding Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek to the maindeck. With all the tutors this is reasonably easy to put together, and the Sword is by itself hopefully a good card advantage engine when coupled with Copter but primarily Welder. And of course lots of card advantage when coupled with the Foundry. There are also plenty of 1/1's to trigger the Sword naturally. The change was driven by a feeling that Punishing Fire would do too much damage to the deck, pre-sideboarding, also that Thopter Foundry generates lots of life which is great vs aggressive decks that can be tough otherwise, and then both the defensive and offensive capabilities of a Bitterblossom-similar combo are very well suited for the meta. Also even if Foundry is easily answered, the 4 Welders make it easy to bring it back while ignoring Deathrite interaction (being an artifact).

I removed a Daretti for the Sword and a Search for Azcanta for the Foundry. Daretti replaced the Bitterblossom in the sideboard.

Edit: I'm considering if the Tezzeret is worth playing, it seems winmore to me. Keeping it for now, but it could be a Ponder or Daretti..

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Originally Posted by pettdan

I had a reasonable run with the deck again in last week's LGS legacy event (list 2 posts above), going 2-1-1. Had much fun playing it. Copter is still great, if you didn't try it I suggest you do so.

Omnisneak 2-1
Moon Stompy 1-2
Miracles (RiP + Helm in the board) 2-1
Infect 1-1-1

The loss was tight and I did make a mistake (and lost one game to a clear mulligan but I was curious to try it out). There were many relevant modes on Kolaghan's Command in a specific situation, I should have returned a Welder to be able to put a second creature into play next turn and potentially turn the game around but instead lost by small margins.

The draw was as close to a win as it could be, he finished t5 of time on 1 life with no creatures in play and no more castable cards in the deck (due to Blood Moon) and me with Kolaghan's Command in hand (and no black mana source) and 4 creatures in play. I was feeling bad for this deck working so well vs his deck (t1 Lavamancer every game) and then played a bit too defensively, could have finished it earlier.

I made a small change: adding Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek to the maindeck. With all the tutors this is reasonably easy to put together, and the Sword is by itself hopefully a good card advantage engine when coupled with Copter but primarily Welder. And of course lots of card advantage when coupled with the Foundry. There are also plenty of 1/1's to trigger the Sword naturally. The change was driven by a feeling that Punishing Fire would do too much damage to the deck, pre-sideboarding, also that Thopter Foundry generates lots of life which is great vs aggressive decks that can be tough otherwise, and then both the defensive and offensive capabilities of a Bitterblossom-similar combo are very well suited for the meta. Also even if Foundry is easily answered, the 4 Welders make it easy to bring it back while ignoring Deathrite interaction (being an artifact).

I removed a Daretti for the Sword and a Search for Azcanta for the Foundry. Daretti replaced the Bitterblossom in the sideboard.

Edit: I'm considering if the Tezzeret is worth playing, it seems winmore to me. Keeping it for now, but it could be a Ponder or Daretti..

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In your list I think Tezz is still pretty good. You are still playing a lot of artifacts, and now with the thopter/swords combo you are playing two artifact combos that Tezz can put together quickly for you. I did take Tezz out of my list quite a while ago but I've really been moving away from a lot of artifacts in my list (currently 14 total) and he would often miss. I've tried to play the thopter/swords combo on several occasions in the past and couldn't make it work but if you feel like you can reliably find the pieces it's very strong and combos extremely well with Tezz. I also took out search for azcanta and other tutors to replace with lim-dul's vault. I just prefer the vault because it tutors for anything in your deck but it is noticeable card disadvantage when you are in a top-deck to save me sort of situation.

@colo: I'm still playing the miser's copy of misdirection and it's okay. It really shines in certain MUs and is just bad in others. If you could play 5 FoW I would but this is a functional equivalent and does answer abrupt decay. I've often just used it to point swords to plowshares or other removal at a different one of my own guys though which works, but still getting 3 for 1'd. But that usually happens in response to me comboing off so it's okay:wink:

I have also been playing the deck to combo early and have been having a lot more success with that sort of game plan. It's also why I wanted to increase the consistency with the vaults.

Glad to hear that Misdirection didn't let you down all the way!


I've been at my LGS's weekly Legacy tournament today, and finished in second place with a 3-1 record, losing to Grixis Control (1-2; he simply drew the necessary teensy bit better than I did - nevertheless it felt very good to win a game where he hit me with *four* back-to-back resolutions of Cabal Therapy, after having been Gitaxian Probed and him having a Young Pyromancer active, by intelligently managing the top card of my library :D), but then winning against Lands (2-0), BR Reanimator (2-1), and Death & Taxes (2-0). I still feel my unchanged list to be very well positioned, but the meta's top dogs (Grixis Control/Pile, and their Delver-running variants) are tough to deal with - but that's to be expected, I guess :)

I'm still pondering running Transmute Artifact or maybe Whir of Invention - has anyone of you ever tried the latter?


Thopter/Sword sounds like a very attractive plan b to have... please keep us posted how it's treating you!

Without changes to my list, I finished 2nd after four rounds with a 3-1 record, losing the finals versus D&T 1-2, after a string of _incredibly_ unlucky draws/Brainstorms/Ponders in both post-board games. And I got bitten by Misdirection's limitations for the very first time, since I could not interact with his G3 T1 Swords to Plowshares targeting my lone Painter's Servant :cry: :laugh: I should have played it slow, but I got too greedy and was aiming for the T3 kill with Pyroblast protection from T2 on, and got punished accordingly, as I never saw a single creature again in the more than 15 cards to follow that early exchange...

I did manage to beat Manaless Dredge 2-0, Turbo Depths 2-1, and Eldrazi Stompy 2-1 before that unfortunate fuckup. The latter matchup doesn't seem that hard on second thought; the miser copy of Engineered Explosives as a flexible and tutorable mainboard solution to Chalice of the Void is really, really good. Also, Magus of the Moon (obv.) and Servant (interacting favorably with the "colorless Eldrazi"-clause of some of their stuff) are very potent threats. I've also come to appreciate Manic Vandal a lot as a SB choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by colo

Without changes to my list, I finished 2nd after four rounds with a 3-1 record, losing the finals versus D&T 1-2, after a string of _incredibly_ unlucky draws/Brainstorms/Ponders in both post-board games. And I got bitten by Misdirection's limitations for the very first time, since I could not interact with his G3 T1 Swords to Plowshares targeting my lone Painter's Servant :cry: [emoji23] I should have played it slow, but I got too greedy and was aiming for the T3 kill with Pyroblast protection from T2 on, and got punished accordingly, as I never saw a single creature again in the more than 15 cards to follow that early exchange...

I did manage to beat Manaless Dredge 2-0, Turbo Depths 2-1, and Eldrazi Stompy 2-1 before that unfortunate fuckup. The latter matchup doesn't seem that hard on second thought; the miser copy of Engineered Explosives as a flexible and tutorable mainboard solution to Chalice of the Void is really, really good. Also, Magus of the Moon (obv.) and Servant (interacting favorably with the "colorless Eldrazi"-clause of some of their stuff) are very potent threats. I've also come to appreciate Manic Vandal a lot as a SB choice.

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Are you still using the vision charm/dreadnaught combo? Does it ever win you games?
Was your eldrazi opponent playing artifact Mana? Because if they were that matchup is near impossible.... Unless you're opponent was also not playing a shuffling eldrazi. Sure, painter shuts eye of using down until they draw an Ugin and nuke your whole board. I hate that MU.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Dreadnought/Vision Charm: yes, I do, and yes, it does :) Not very often (but that's probably due to the combo-win working so reliably), but I am completely convinced it's warranted, if only to guard against post-board mishaps where you end up with Painter or Grindstone having been hit by Surgical Extraction.

My Eldrazi opponent wasn't playing artifact mana, and it wasn't a Big Eldrazi list. It was the usual, Chalice-powered stompy list that I've seen most often around here, with the well-known Mimic into Thoughtknot into Smasher "curve", powered by Sol and Eldrazi lands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by colo

Dreadnought/Vision Charm: yes, I do, and yes, it does :) Not very often (but that's probably due to the combo-win working so reliably), but I am completely convinced it's warranted, if only to guard against post-board mishaps where you end up with Painter or Grindstone having been hit by Surgical Extraction.

My Eldrazi opponent wasn't playing artifact mana, and it wasn't a Big Eldrazi list. It was the usual, Chalice-powered stompy list that I've seen most often around here, with the well-known Mimic into Thoughtknot into Smasher "curve", powered by Sol and Eldrazi lands.

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I will test your list.
Can you explain me for vision charm, when do you use the land mode? Witch match up?
If you put thopter / sword you have to change the list with black. Are you sure with your list?

Vision Charm's potential applications are manifold, and the ways I've used it so far, in descending order of importance and power-level (in my experience):

1. Dreadnought combo
2. Protecting a combo piece from removal via phasing
3. Phasing out equipment to mess with combat math/buy time
4. Phasing out artifacts interfering with the combo (Phyrexian Revoker and Pithing Needle)
5. Denying mana for a turn against an opponent (e. g. turning all Swamps into Mountains in my opponent's upkeep against BU Reanimator)
6. Milling away known-bad cards after Brainstorm without shuffle effects

I'm very convinced that my list, with some experience piloting it, is a force to be reckoned with. I have more than 70% match win percentage with it in more than 20 matches, in a fairly developed metagame.

I'm not sure if implementing the Thopter/Sword as an additional win-con is worth it in my list, since I already have a pretty solid backup plan - but it's a sweet and powerful combo and I'd love to have access to it. Fixing the mana for my variant to support it seems like a very ambitious endeavor, though. If you find out how to make it work, please let me know :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by colo

Vision Charm's potential applications are manifold, and the ways I've used it so far, in descending order of importance and power-level (in my experience):

1. Dreadnought combo
2. Protecting a combo piece from removal via phasing
3. Phasing out equipment to mess with combat math/buy time
4. Phasing out artifacts interfering with the combo (Phyrexian Revoker and Pithing Needle)
5. Denying mana for a turn against an opponent (e. g. turning all Swamps into Mountains in my opponent's upkeep against BU Reanimator)
6. Milling away known-bad cards after Brainstorm without shuffle effects

I'm very convinced that my list, with some experience piloting it, is a force to be reckoned with. I have more than 70% match win percentage with it in more than 20 matches, in a fairly developed metagame.

I'm not sure if implementing the Thopter/Sword as an additional win-con is worth it in my list, since I already have a pretty solid backup plan - but it's a sweet and powerful combo and I'd love to have access to it. Fixing the mana for my variant to support it seems like a very ambitious endeavor, though. If you find out how to make it work, please let me know :)

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Really thank for your expérience i love the idea to play some strange card. I will test on mtgo

I am using a completely different build, Mono Blue
It is more of a control deck with Painter kill than a pure combo list
I find Whir of Invention very powerful and I like having a control or aggro plan, while I set an istant kill combo.

8 Island
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Seat of the Synod
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Wasteland

4 Painter's Servant
2 Grindstone

3 Vendilion Clique
2 Zahid, Djinn of the Lamp

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

3 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Hydroblast

2 Trinket Mage
3 Whir of Invention

1 Spellskite
1 Walking Ballista
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Powder Keg
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sorcerous Spyglass

2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

Sidaboard:

SB1: Blue Elemental Blast
SB2: Flusterstorm
SB4: Spell Pierce
SB3: Chalice of The Void
SB5: Relic of Progenitus
SB6: Surgical Extraction
SB7: Faerie Macabre
SB8: Tormod's Crypt
SB9: Ensnaring Bridge
SB10: Venser, Shaper Savant
SB11: Back to Basics


Other possible cards for the side

0/1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
0/1 Sower of Temptation
0/1 Energy Field
0/1 Masticore
0/1 Batterskull
0/1 Vedalken Shackles
0/1 Wipe Away
0/1 Tezzeret the Seeker
0/1 Crucible of Worlds
0/1 Thopter Spy Network
0/1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
0/1 Gifts Ungiven
0/1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
0/1 Lodestone Golem

What do you think ?
Any comment or suggestion is apreciated

Zahid, Djinn of the Lamp is an interesting choice and seems hard to get rid of for anything that doesn't play white. I like it :) How did it treat you so far? Don't you think you should play more sol lands to power it out earlier?

Do you really need Powder Keg, Engineered Explosives (in a mono-U list) and Ratchet Bomb in your deck? To me, that seems kinda excessive.

Without having ever tried it, I can't help but think that a mono-U version loses a fair bit of power due to the missing Pyroblasts. What colour do you usually name with Servant? Red? Isthat why you run the Hydroblasts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by colo

Zahid, Djinn of the Lamp is an interesting choice and seems hard to get rid of for anything that doesn't play white. I like it :) How did it treat you so far? Don't you think you should play more sol lands to power it out earlier?

Do you really need Powder Keg, Engineered Explosives (in a mono-U list) and Ratchet Bomb in your deck? To me, that seems kinda excessive.

Without having ever tried it, I can't help but think that a mono-U version loses a fair bit of power due to the missing Pyroblasts. What colour do you usually name with Servant? Red? Isthat why you run the Hydroblasts?

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Actually on turn 3 I usually prefere to play a Whir or a Vendilion (instead of Djinn) which need 2 or 3 blue mana. I actually started playing 5 sol lands (3 tomb and 2 city) but then I started cutting them down to 2/3 (sometimes the wasteland is a third sol land) when I realized that I was starting to search for Seat of the Synod with trinket mage too often. I could cut the wasteland for one more Ancient Tomb. I found that 16 is the correct number of blue mana sources.

But yes, Djinn is very strong. He is difficult to kill and he can make you win in 3 turn without using the combo.
(opponents allways try to surgical extraction one of the 2 artifacts)
Against Swords to Plowshares decks (Miracle and Blade Control) I use Djinn and Vendilion to attract swords to plowshares to them, making the future painter more safe.

E.E., Powder Keg and Ratchet Bomb are quite important against those decks which have a fast race (Delvers) or mana ramp (Shaman decks, Elfs and Vial).
They take easily away Chalice of the Voids. They are ment to kill the cc1 creatures. If I find the need to kill higher cc spells, I would play something else.

I name RED for 2 reasons:
1) I play hydroblasts maindeck
2) I have a lot of blue (27/28 cards I think). I don't have problems in having a pitch for force of will or misdirection.
I don't want to risk to give my opponent a "free pitch" (such as a land) to exile with their Force of Will.

Actually I am allways not sure if I prefere Ponder or Preordain.

Played a new list yesterday at a 40ish person tournament, had to drop after round 5 for family stuff, but went 3-2 and was pretty happy with the list.

//Combo
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
1 Tormod's Crypt

//Protection
4 Force of Will
3 Goblin Welder
3 Pyroblast

//Draw and Tutor
4 Transmute Artifact
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Karn, Scion of Urza

//Back Up Plans
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ensnaring Bridge

//Mana
3 Grim Monolith
2 Mox Opal
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Spellskite
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 1 Sudden Demise
SB: 1 Trinisphere


Matches
Rd 1 win 2-0 vs Manaless dredge
Rd 2 win 2-1 vs BR Reanimator
Rd 3 loss 1-2 vs Turbo Depths
Rd 4 win 2-1 vs Gb cards? (weird value-y midrange list)
Rd 5 loss 1-2 vs Food Chain Combo

It was a tournament for top 10 to get the 10 duals, so i was still live at that point (even to top 8 on a small shot) but I had to go help out the wife with stuff, so I left. Overall the list was super solid. Karn was great in fair matchups and easy to side out for more combo protection and counters in fast matchups. I felt like the turbo depths matchup i got a little unlucky, in game 3 i was set up to definitely beat 1 abrupt decay and was just searching for Painter's Servant, and ended up losing to him finding double decay before i found single painter's servant. Also never found any of my sideboard blood moons against him to make him need more cards to beat me. I liked the direction of the list, and I was real happy with tezzeret as second tutor after transmute artifact.

Deck felt good, and my lack of playing the deck much in the past couple years, definitely hurt me in a couple losses, but overall, the format and tournament was fun, and this feels like a cool direction to take the deck. Sidenote, ensnaring bridge was FANTASTIC all day.

So, any new war stories from anyone? I'm sick at home for the last two weeks, so naurally, did not play a single game in the meantime :/

I would appreciate more anecdotes/data on how Zahid, Djinn of the Lamp and Lim-Dul's Vault have been working out for you. Have you ever considered trying out Supreme Will? Or do you think that Izzet Charm is "strictly" better?

Also, a more theoretical question: If you were to splash white, going for URw - what would be your go-to cards in these colours (with a focus on W, of course)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by colo

Also, a more theoretical question: If you were to splash white, going for URw - what would be your go-to cards in these colours (with a focus on W, of course)?

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Enlightened Tutor, Swords to Plowshares and Hatebears be my guess. If you're going down the enlightened tutor path it opens you up to a couple silver bullet targets as well e.g. rip, moat, humility, ensnaring bridge, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CptHaddock

Enlightened Tutor, Swords to Plowshares and Hatebears be my guess. If you're going down the enlightened tutor path it opens you up to a couple silver bullet targets as well e.g. rip, moat, humility, ensnaring bridge, etc.

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...this. honestly, if deathrite gets axed in the next ban I would consider swinging to white. The combo hate is so much better in white. I actually just added blood moon main to my list. It just felt like my bad matchups were all decks where I wanted blood moon. The combo is otherwise so fragile.


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White it is, then!