[DTB] Blade Control

What successful SBing strategies have people had against Maverick? I've done some testing against the straight GW list from Drew Levin's article and the MU seems just abysmal. I tried the following plan:

-3 Jace, -4 FoW, -1 CS
+4 PtE, +2 ORings, +1 EE, +1 WoG

I think that I have to find room to keep in the FoWs. I know that the idea is 2for1ing yourself is bad against a deck that is so full of threats, but I think that I simply need the Force (and maybe even the 3rd Spell Pierce) to be able to consistently stop Choke. Sure, we have ORing, but fighting past Choke is just horrendous. I'm also considering adding a Glacial Fortress, so that I have at least a miser chance to have a workable Blue source under Choke.

I'm leaning now towards taking out the SFM package as a way to hunker down on more counterspells and control. This could, however, open me up to their plethora of threats. Without Batterskull, any one of their tiny creatures can pick up exalted and start to become an issue.

Anyways, I'd like to hear what people are trying... if it works, or if it doesn't work, etc... Thanks.

Drew Levin talks about that a bit in the "how to kill everyone with u/w stoneforge" article here.

I would not side out Jace, particularly if you do remove the Stoneforge package. Having good board wipes are obviously important, and Jace and/or (hopefully 'and') Elspeth can slip through (though, for PF versions, that means addressing the engine).

So just hit spot removal until you can waste and/or extract Punshing Fire or Grove, wipe the board, and ride the Fateseal + jumping soldiers for the win.

It's not a fun match...

Board in the disenchants if you have them, choke and sylvan library are both big problems. I've also had some success with cursed totem (as part of my tutor toolbox), providing I manage to handle choke, equipments (you can't realistically sword everything, even post-board) and PF in a timely fashion. It's still a big IF though, and the MU is difficult.

I feel inclined to play ORings over Disenchant because it doubles as spot removal. I might run a Disenchant in addition though... What about Spell Pierce? It's dead against a fair amount of Maverick, but it stops Choke and GSZ and can protect a SFM.

Tapping out mainphase to remove choke and getting it destroyed by GSZ --> qasali next turn is pretty bad. Also, oblivion ring isn't snapcastable.
Spell pierce is rubish against maverick, you should have better things to board in.

I agree that a lot of times, removal overall is better to board in... But after SB, GW will have anywhere around 10-12 targets for Spell Pierce (4 GSZ, 1-2 Elspeth, 2-3 Sylvan Libraries, 3 Chokes) not even including them hard casting equipment and Swords to Plowshares. Sure maybe there's better uses for those slots, but being able to drop SFM on turn 3 and leave up Pierce mana to 1-for-1 Choke/GSZ doesn't seem bad.

That is a pretty fair argument against ORing though. My only reservations about Disenchant are its uses outside the Maverick MU. ORing is killer in the mirror or Delver if you believe they might board Sylvan Libraries or even Pox for Liliana.

Against maverick i board in: 2x Wrath, 2x Engineered Explosives, 1x P.Metamorph, 2x Disenchant

I play UWr so maindeck i have 4 swords and 3 bolts for nasty creatures.

My strategy have enough single and mass removal and answers against choke and equipment. Metamorph is very good vs a resolved thrun troll. With academy ruins, i can reuse metamorph and explosives in a late game.

I sideout most of the counters, because force with 2:1 isnt a good play against mavericks high threat density and against green sun zenit, spell snare lose some power.

After quite a few more testing sessions against RUG and Maverick, I'm starting to have less and less faith in Spell Pierce. I'm also starting to wonder if we try to be too cute with our mana bases. One of Academy Ruins, Karakas, Riptide Laboratory, etc are all good on paper, but when it comes down to it, pure consistency and resilience to Wasteland wins games. Somewhat on that note... has anyone felt the urge to add the second basic Plains? Against Wasteland decks, I'm starting to wish that I could fetch out double Plains for WoG/Elspeth. It might just be that I need to play tighter and another Blue fetch/basic would be more desirable there instead.

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Originally Posted by Dzra

After quite a few more testing sessions against RUG and Maverick, I'm starting to have less and less faith in Spell Pierce. I'm also starting to wonder if we try to be too cute with our mana bases. One of Academy Ruins, Karakas, Riptide Laboratory, etc are all good on paper, but when it comes down to it, pure consistency and resilience to Wasteland wins games. Somewhat on that note... has anyone felt the urge to add the second basic Plains? Against Wasteland decks, I'm starting to wish that I could fetch out double Plains for WoG/Elspeth. It might just be that I need to play tighter and another Blue fetch/basic would be more desirable there instead.

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I've never felt bad that I didn't have a second plains. If you keep your early fetches to basics, when you're ready to cast WoG, you will usually have that 2nd white source, and you're not usually trying to cast another WW spell the next turn anyway. Also, once you have a couple of Tundras out, losing one isn't as devastating.

How much utility lands you want to run is up to you. I think land mix is the easiest part to experiment with and find what works for you. I have 1 Academy Ruins because I run2 EE main and I've gotten much more utility from the Academy Ruins than I ever did with Riptide. Wthout the EE, though, I wouldn't include it (I'd probably add another Mishra's).

Esperblade won the gp... using.. 4 lingering souls and 1 intuition...

Very powerful and underestimated or just very well positioned in the gp meta?

I think that deluting the mana base even further is just a little scary. I run Bant-Blade and Azoruis-Blade; but bant has mana fixers like Noble Heirarch, Esper cannot claim the same. I am not putting down the Esper style he used as it is obviously good tech for that event, etc. But it is not my style.

Bant with the Exalted dudes on the other hand, gains on the aggor side. But that (and the Esper) are different stories.

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Originally Posted by Dzra

After quite a few more testing sessions against RUG and Maverick, I'm starting to have less and less faith in Spell Pierce. I'm also starting to wonder if we try to be too cute with our mana bases. One of Academy Ruins, Karakas, Riptide Laboratory, etc are all good on paper, but when it comes down to it, pure consistency and resilience to Wasteland wins games. Somewhat on that note... has anyone felt the urge to add the second basic Plains? Against Wasteland decks, I'm starting to wish that I could fetch out double Plains for WoG/Elspeth. It might just be that I need to play tighter and another Blue fetch/basic would be more desirable there instead.

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My Stoneblade list has been working with 6 Island 2 Plains 3 Tundras 3 Wasteland 2 Mishras 8 Fetch for months without any significant trouble against Wasteland. I don't run Karakas because it just isn't reliable.

I've played a number of games with the Esper list against Maverick and RUG. I'm not convinced that it's better than straight UW, but Lingering Souls (and Perish/Zealous Persecution out of the SB) are really strong. Targeted discard definitely also has its merits as the format is adjusting more to Spell Snare and spreading their curve out. Spell Snare feels dumb when they play Mongoose, Moms, GSZ, KotR, etc.

On the flip side, you lose Elspeth and Wrath. Playing a three color deck that likes to hit 4 land drops is dangerous in a Stifle/Wasteland filled meta when you can't Stifle their Wastelands or mana ramp around LD. And then not being able to run Wastelands yourself when a single Maze of Ith can put you out of the game entirely are all risky moves.

Has anyone had better luck leaving FOW in for the maverick mu? I plan on testing it today but I think it's needed so you can tap out for wrath/jace/elspeth and not get choked out. Another thought I've come across is the inclusion of celestial colonnade. It fills the same role as glacial fortress but gives us a gun in the mirror, as well as potential goose blocker, though unlikely. I feel like that might be too greedy and me just asking to get blown out by stp though and it doesn't solve the choke problem being a none fetchable one of.

I'm almost positive that leaving in FoW is correct. I'm still working on a good SB plan, but I think our weakest cards in the MU are Clique and Spell Snare. I keep going back and forth on whether or not SFM is a reliable plan against Maverick, but I've come to the conclusion that Elspeth is great and Jace is only good. Celestial Colonnade is entirely too clunky and I think that 1 Glacial Fortress isn't going to help much, maybe 2-3 Glacials could actually provide some cover though.

I agree Clique is only so-so against them, and mystic seems like it's only ok. Jace can either be the bomb like he used to be against clunky midrange decks, or completely uncastable because he'll just die. I think that a consideration we have to make is taking out to many blue cards for our Fow's, and not having enough bodies for our equipment. I can for sure agree that spell snare is our weakest card and only really wants to counter thalia or a pridemage. Ooze is annoying but is by no means as bad for us as the other two.

Does Linvala, Keeper of Silence seem worth a slot against Maverick style creature decks?

It shuts off almost every relevant card Maverick plays, but then again... WoG is the same cost and slams down twice as hard... Still, I guess something can be said for Linvala staying on the field and having game against the dudes Maverick is most likely sandbagging.

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Originally Posted by Dzra

Does Linvala, Keeper of Silence seem worth a slot against Maverick style creature decks?

It shuts off almost every relevant card Maverick plays, but then again... WoG is the same cost and slams down twice as hard... Still, I guess something can be said for Linvala staying on the field and having game against the dudes Maverick is most likely sandbagging.

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It stops their mana dorks, but at turn 4, their abilities are likely moot.

It stops KOTR, but they are likely 4/4+ anyways...and oozes from growing bigger...but they are likely to be a decent size already.

It stops annoying creature abilities (such as sprite and MoM). This is a valid point, yet WoG still kills all the creatures on the board, and Linvala impedes WoG.

Overall, it feels that the MU needs a finisher from blade-control. Yet, I am not sure linvala fills the role. It doesn't put maverick on a significant clock, and doesn't play a key defensive role (outside a tempo damper).

I had some success today against Maverick boarding out the SFM package, 1 Jace, and 1 Clique for 2 WoG, 1 EE, 2 Oblivion Rings, and 3 PtE. Although, play fast and know when to scoop game 1 because that strategy will have you running up against time. I'm still somewhat up in the air about ORings VS Disenchant... It's just nice to hit Planeswalkers when you have to, even if you open yourself up to a possible Pridemage later on.

Ok, final tune up for the weekend. I strongly believe Jitte should be the 2nd equipment in the MD right now. Since lingering souls is such a bomb and considering how many decks jitte shuts down, jitte should be the go to 2nd equipment. Thoughts?

Jitte used to be terrible against control, but now that control (esperblade) is dependant on 1/1 fliers, jitte seems like the equipment to win this matchup. Legend ruling the opponent's jitte also seems all important against esper blade. Lingering souls is much weaker without a jitte buffing the 1/1s.