[Deck] Team America (Midrange/Control Thread)

4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 True-Name Nemesis

3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculpter

4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Daze

Sideboard:
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Umezawa's JItte
1 True-Name Nemesis
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Disfigure
1 Dismember
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Duress


From a few suggestions, I took the list that Gerrard Fabiano and Reid Duke brewed up and upped the TNN count to 4 in the 75. I also replaced some of the sweepers with Marsh Casualties, since Toxic Deluge and the like seem like a nonbo in a deck with a bunch of X/1s.
So I took the above list and made top 4 of a local 64 person tournament.
Round 1: Mono white Solider Tribal
Win match
Round 2: Deathblade
Draw match
Round 3: Punishing Jund
Win match
Round 4: Omnitell
Win match
Round 5: Goblins
Win match
Round 6: ID
Quarterfinals: Jund
Win match

MVP: Marsh Casualties and Spell Pierce
LVP: Daze

Notes: I had to mulligan a lot of 1 landers, so it may help to add a 23rd land. Perhaps a Creeping Tar Pit? Despite Daze usually being the worst card in the deck, it feels like a nessicity (sp?) to make up for the lack of cheap interactive spells(StP, Lightning Bolt, Force of Will, etc). One could argue for Spell Pierce instead of Daze, which may be worth trying.

My meta is currently dominated by "fair" creature decks at the moment, so I wanted to post a list I have been doodling on paper and see how some of you feel about it. I may even sleeve it up tonight for a small-ish local 4 round event...

The List:
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3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique

3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Dismember
1 Intuition

1 Ponder
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou

I believe the list is 61 cards. I've never shied away from a 61 card list if I like it. I know there is debate after debate on this subject, but I'm not usually playing for any real money so it's more about fun and bragging rights. I'd love some comments and maybe some criticisms if you have any folks!

imo i think your deck is a bit too mana hungry.
I would maybe do a 2/2 planeswalker split and add Goyf or something.

For what reason do you play Intuition? I would cut it and then you come down to 60 cars ;)

I see in your deck Baleful Strix, like in some others before. For what reason does this creature celebrate its come back?

I really like the list… though it is mana intensive (and weak to blood moon)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deckerator

imo i think your deck is a bit too mana hungry.
I would maybe do a 2/2 planeswalker split and add Goyf or something.

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I think the Baleful Strix does a good job of smoothing out the draws… I would advise against the goyf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deckerator

For what reason do you play Intuition? I would cut it and then you come down to 60 cars ;)

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Here is a sample pile for you: Thespian Stage, Dark Depth, Life from the Loam. Intuition and Loam does a lot to feed this, admittedly, mana hungry deck and it acts a resilient win condition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deckerator

I see in your deck Baleful Strix, like in some others before. For what reason does this creature celebrate its come back?

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Strix is an amazing card in a mostly fair meta… it smooths your draws and eats one of your opponents cards? for the low low cost of UB, sign me up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Madmankevinx

The List:
-----------

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique

3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Dismember
1 Intuition

1 Ponder
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou

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I would suggest changing the Ponder to Sylvan Library and dropping one discard spell to go to 60 cards… maybe 1 swamp for an underground sea to have some game against bloodmoon

Blood moon is a definite auto loss looking at my list. Perhaps a basic forest in the sideboard with a couple Krosan grip so I have a chance game 2-3? The Strix are great at protecting your planeswalkers and can put your opponents in very awkward positions sometimes. They immediately replace themselves too. Just a ton of value for 2 mana. The intuition is for a Loam+Depths+Stage pile against an opponent with no Swords to Plowshares. Sylvan does seem better than a ponder, but would lower my blue count for FoW. Not sure what to change. Thanks for the input so far!!

The deck is also hungry for colored mana. You should just accept some losses to Blood Moon and have overall better mana base.

Intuition-Depths is just too cute. I don't think you can afford to play Dark Depths which is totally a dead card. You don't need a dedicated victory condition; Jace is your victory condition. If anything, I would like to add another Creeping Tar Pit, the card is huge. 23 lands is fine, as long as they all tap for mana.

I think Ponder is necessary as you need blue cards to support Force of Will. 17 blue cards is not much, and you'd want to side out Strix or Jace in matchups where Force is important, which would put you very low on blue cards. I'd suggest you should look into upping the blue count.

I agree that my intuition pile is cute, but in a game where I am in control and time is ticking, I have been wanting an oops I win play. I used to grind it out with Jace ultimate or tar Pit but the Marit Lage can just end it on the spot or become a big griselbrand blocker if need be. I'm hesitant to cut it.

I'll also add that an Intuition for Loam+Wasteland x2 is pretty good against a lot of decks right now.

Hi,
I am preparing my next local tournament and I think playing this card list:

Creatures [16]
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Snapcaster Mage

Instants [11]
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
3 Force of Will

Sorceries [10]
4 Ponder
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

Planeswalkers [2]
2 Liliana of the Veil

Lands [21]
1 Swamp
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland

Sideboard
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Disfigure
1 Dismember
1 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Sower of Temptation
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge

Does the decklist/sideboard seem fine?
Thanks for your help

I'd make the singleton Cabal Therapy an Inquisition of Kozilek or the 4th Thoughtseize. I think I would move the Toxic Deluge to the sideboard because Bob+ maindeck FoWs + Thoughtseize seems like too much life loss considering our fetch-land count.

Hi tryed out Phimus Pan list and it when 3-2 but haven't play alot of this type of deck.
I was wondring how do your sidebord in this matchup:

UWR Delver
RUG Delver
BUG Delver
UW Miracles
Death and Taxes
Elves

Decklist
Creatures (12)

3 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers (6)

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (23)

1 Bayou
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
Spells (19)

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
2 Dismember
3 Force of Will
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard

1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Dread of Night
1 Force of Will
2 Golgari Charm
3 Spell Pierce
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Marsh Casualties

:)

I'm a big fan of Phimus Pans list myself, it seems to have game verses everything in my meta. In regards to Death and Taxes and Elves all you need to do is bring in Marsh Casualties and Golgari Charm (also Dread of Night for D&T too) and use spot removal for key targets and larger targets that don't die to charm et al. - I would likely remove Force and/or Thoughtseize for them.

Against Miracles, I'd personally maximize disruption by bringing in Force, Pierce, Hymn and likely Revoker (to disrupt Top and or Grindstone, et al). I'd personally remove Baleful (useless in this MU), Dismember (again useless) and 3 Deathrite Shamans for them (the Shamans could be wrong but they seem like the weakest link in the deck to me as Miracles tend to either turn them into chumps with RiP or remove them fairly easily with their removal).

Delver decks don't like hand disruption but I think bringing in Hymn is the wrong play as it'll likely just get Dazed or Pierced, etc. On the whole I'm fairly limited on testing vs Delver decks myself - the ones I have played I tended to win on the back of DRS, hand disruption, Decay and Nemesis. I also extracted a RUG players Tropical Island once, that works for shutting them down lol.

Lately I've stolen a few wins by having a "creatures!" sideboard plan. Your opponent always sides out every price of creature removal they can replace from their board. A couple TNNs and a few Goyfs steal game 2's in absolute hilarious fashion. True story.

I'm surprised this thread isn't seeing more action. I was skeptical at first, but I think Phimus and his friends came up with a really solid list. Here's my take:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
1 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
1 Ponder
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Disfigure
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Disfigure
SB: 2 Marsh Casualties
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker

It's better vs. Miracles/fair decks and worse vs. combo than Team America. I think that's a good place to be right now as Sneak and Show is not too hard to beat with this list. Elves is rough game 1, but postboard I like my chances with Perish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

I'm surprised this thread isn't seeing more action. I was skeptical at first, but I think Phimus and his friends came up with a really solid list. Here's my take:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
1 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
1 Ponder
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Disfigure
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Disfigure
SB: 2 Marsh Casualties
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker

It's better vs. Miracles/fair decks and worse vs. combo than Team America. I think that's a good place to be right now as Sneak and Show is not too hard to beat with this list. Elves is rough game 1, but postboard I like my chances with Perish.

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Just wanna know what kind of advantage does this deck have over the traditional shardless bug lists? Undecided on which version to play.

It doesn't get crapped on by combo? Also, it plays 3 tar pits

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

It doesn't get crapped on by combo? Also, it plays 3 tar pits

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Is that really that different between the two? I feel that most of the relevant combo cards are identical between the two lists.

4 FoW
4-6 Inquizition/Thoughtseize/Duress/Hymn
2 Revoker/ Pithing Needle

I guess most Shardless lists do not run 3 Spell Pierce though I have seen a number running 2 Flusterstorm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

It doesn't get crapped on by combo? Also, it plays 3 tar pits

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Also, if you were to play one basic swamp in the list (to give you a bit more game against blood moon) could you cut an underground sea? Or are basics out of the question?

What about Sylvan Library, I have always loved this card a Jace #4. I would be interested to hear your/phimus' thoughts on these two topics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

I'm surprised this thread isn't seeing more action. I was skeptical at first, but I think Phimus and his friends came up with a really solid list. Here's my take:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
1 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
1 Ponder
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Disfigure
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Disfigure
SB: 2 Marsh Casualties
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker

It's better vs. Miracles/fair decks and worse vs. combo than Team America. I think that's a good place to be right now as Sneak and Show is not too hard to beat with this list. Elves is rough game 1, but postboard I like my chances with Perish.

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I'm going to try out this list with maybe a few SB changes for my meta tomorrow at my local.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razorwynd

Also, if you were to play one basic swamp in the list (to give you a bit more game against blood moon) could you cut an underground sea? Or are basics out of the question?

What about Sylvan Library, I have always loved this card a Jace #4. I would be interested to hear your/phimus' thoughts on these two topics.

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I'm currently very torn between Control and Delver BUG variants, and have been bouncing between them. I think Sylvan Library is excellent and currently run one main, one board; I'm strongly considering making room for a second one main to draw it more often. The downside is that running more than one Library really drives you to run 9-10 fetchlands so that you get maximum utility out of it, and especially so you can throw the second one away effectively without discarding it to Liliana. I'm currently running two basics (one swamp, one flex depending on what I expect) and 4 Delta, 4 Catacombs in addition to the "normal" dual package of 4 Sea, 2 Trop, 1 Bayou and am very happy with them in my delver-heavy meta. They also let you steal games from decks like Painter and Death and Taxes that you otherwise would just lose to Blood Moon, Wasteland, and Port.

Also, I've been testing maindeck Counterspell and the 4th MD Force in place of non-Thoughtseize discard and have been very happy with it, especially against Miracles.