I feel like siding out Shardless is never an option, in any matchup. They are your main engine to help ensure you play spells you want to and they also pitch to FoW. I always side out goyfs for the MM's.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Printable View
I feel like siding out Shardless is never an option, in any matchup. They are your main engine to help ensure you play spells you want to and they also pitch to FoW. I always side out goyfs for the MM's.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
By all means, test it out. It's just my hypothesis that keeping a deck that does stuff before the turn you lose is going to do better than a deck that is trying to assemble engines. I cut all the engines that didn't effect elves and made the deck proactive. If you keep shardless and not goyf you're more prone to dragging out the game and, I would guess, losing.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayOSU
I'd note that Shardless's CA is completely canceled by Reclamation sage and that he's prone to trading with garbage. On top of that? Goyf can profitably block small-hoof numbers and is quite good against the trample; so having that big butt may well save you.
Vs combo decks, why not cut all the slow cards like jace and visions and turn into a delver style deck? I have never cut agent post board and i never will.
With your list i think i would board like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonslayer_90
-2 Liliana
-3 Hymn
-1 Wasteland
-3 Visions
-1 Library
-1 Jace
+2 Charm
+4 Mage
+1 Savannah
+1 Night of S
+1 Cage
+1 FoW
+1 Thoughtseize
In general, i would like this configuration. On the play i am more likely to leave in both jaces and not bring in the 3rd thoughtseize. Post board i dont think they try to combo you and play more of a board presence game.
How is this different than what I'm suggesting other than Shardless? You have to get those slots from somewhere and cutting disruption seems dumb. You're replacing shardless with mage, so you run the same number of threats but loads of extra disruption. I think the slots we're really arguing over are Hymn vs. Shardless, which I could sort of see (but I'd rather land strong disruption and beat in with Goyfs than land no disruption and have a 4/5 and a 2/2)Quote:
Originally Posted by James_Nguyen
Its not different, I just dont think Lilianas and Hymns are good vs elves post board
Thanks for the input man. Very much appreciated coming from you! The reason I kept visions in for the most part is to keep the blue count for Force of Will at about 19, thought they did help me grind out games as well. You bring up a good point though about Elves not going for the combo plan as much postboard. Do you think that helps make it okay to have only 16 blue spells in the deck (including FoW) postboard? Also, why do you prefer to keep Jace over Liliana?Quote:
Originally Posted by James_Nguyen
I dont think liliana protects you from Natural order, which i think is their main way to win post board. Liliana going up doesnt do anything and going down kills one creature which is a pretty inefficient. They have been getting Worldspine Wurm not progenitus so shes not pretty bad vs that. If you ever try to ride her to her ultimate, they even have decays of their own to stop that plan. I dont have Mages in the sb like others so she may be ok if you can go mages for natural order and then play her, but i assume that the first mage always names glimpse. From my experience she have been not so good. Plus you have like 10 cards to bring in so something needs to get cut. I like jace because he can close games. If you spend the first couple of turns killing things and thoughtseizing them, it lets you reload and keep the cards flowing. Its even an out to Worldspine Wurm. So my game plan post board would be; kill everything that matters, play some crappy creatures and then slam jace. If you are worried about your blue card count then you can leave a force in the board and bring in the thoughtseizes.
Also i am not a shardless bug savant. Just someone who has played the deck A LOT. We all have our own play styles so if you find something that works for you then by all means go with it.
No problem man. I don't like to emphasize it but someone like you who has had big success with the deck means your opinion carries more weight than most. No offense to anyone else's and their opinions. I have looked at everyone else's posts as well though and will keep your guys' input in mind so thank you all! :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by James_Nguyen
FWIW I like Hymn against Elves and Liliana is fine in small numbers. It depends on your blue card count also. That said, I haven't played that matchup in a long time.
That's the main reason I kept Ancestral Visions postboard against Elves last time I played it at my lgs. It kept my blue count at like 19 or 20 (with Force of Will). Would you be okay going down to 16 blue cards or would you still be more comfortable keeping it at 19 or 20 Gerry?Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryT
Gerry, I heard you saying that you are planning to play this list again this weekend. I know that the meddling mage sideboard plan was implemented after you stopped piloting this deck. What are your thoughts about potentially boarding 4 mage and a savannah? I have just put this sideboard plan together to test it out, but haven't really seen it in action yet. thoughts?Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryT
Why do you like hymns gerry? To me, the the match up feels like it is about very specific cards and not about card advantage.
I've cut some number of goyfs in the elf matchup before when bringing in the mages. I cut the forest and would consider cutting the tarpit. I'd cut the jace. I'd cut 1 Lilliana. I'd cut some number of visions. Just my 2cents.
I realize I'm not Gerry, but I want to ask why you would cut the hymns for this matchup? the individual cards in elves are terrible and require the rest of the cards around them to be any good. It seems to me that the more resources they are denied, the better. I used to play team Italia before TNN showed up, and I played a lot of games vs. elves. It was a pretty interesting matchup, but the games that I could win consistently were often the ones where my sweeper came down after shredding their hand. It prevents them from rebuilding quickly and would give me time to take over. That deck doesn't have U though, and maybe the counter magic changes the need for discard?Quote:
Originally Posted by James_Nguyen
Hello everyone! I will be running Shardless BUG in an upcoming large tournament and I cannot decide on the 15th sideboard slot. If I could get some help/suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. Here is the list.
Shardless BUG (60 Cards)
Lands 22
2 Bayou
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland
Creatures 14
2 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
Instants 11
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
Sorceries 9
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
Planeswalkers 4
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard 14
2 Disfigure
2 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
2 Golgari Charm
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Null Rod
1 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
So what should the 15th sideboard card be? Please explain your answer.
Jitte ☺ it helps against burn, and is great for any fair matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by drocker23
I like Jitte as card #15 if you drop the Disfigures; it looks like removal overload otherwise. I don't like Flusterstorm at all, though - boarding it in means brining some number of Agents out (or opening yourself up to bad Cascades), which means losing blue cards, etc. It's probably better as either Duress or Therapy. Also, Krosan Grip is conspicuous by its absence.
i think flusterstorm is just fine. seeming as how the matchups you really want them in are the matchups where you don't wanna be just throwing out hasty shardless agents. you're more interested in casting your hand hate spells and holding back counterspells. shardless agent can stay in post board, but i think it's better that you have a grip on the game before you cast him otherwise yea, you might durdle into random flusterstorms. if you've torn their hand apart and you can just cast shardless agent into whatever, it probably doesn't matter at that point then what you cascade into honestly. you should have the game wrapped up. the argument can be made for flusterstorm that they can get rid of it with duress or therapy, but they can also get rid of meddling mage with abrupt decay or chain of vapor. but i think flusterstorm is more useful in more matchups. i am referring to the combo matchups mainly of course. if you don't have flusterstorm then you have to have meddling mage which i disagree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10