[Deck] Ichorid

About my idea of cutting Leylines, I'm thinking of playing Darkblast's instead of them, much better than Leylines I think!
I saw many people playing Contagion, but removing a Black card from your hand early in the game isnt very fine most of the time.. And Darkblast is also a Dregde 3! -1/-1 looks good enough against most creatures you hate, like Yixlid Jailer, Mogg Fanatic, Confidant (they find there anti cards faster with him) etc.. Of cource most of the time you dont have Bridges in your grave, because these creatures come turn 1/2, so that isnt even a problem..
Withered Wretch is still a problem, Contagion works against him, so should only he be a reason to run Contagion? Why doesnt Dredge and cost 1 black card..

Mvg

Darkblast can't answer Jailer unless it's already in your hand. In your graveyard it won't have dredge. Mogg Fanatic's death is its important part against you, so it might not help as you may dredge Bridges while grabbing Darkblast. I wasn't aware the Confidant was a problem against this decks.

I never said Confi was a problem. Contagian cant also not answer Jailer when its in your grave, and I never said Darkblast can, maybe the card can be in your (opening)hand? Even as for the Fanatic, they play it, and you can kill it Before dredging with your Darkblast... You kill the fanatic, when you have 0/1 Bridge, before they kill their own when you have more Bridges..

My only question was, should it be better then Contagian ? :smile:

List I'm testing:

// Lands
4 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
4 [5E] City of Brass
1 [FUT] Dakmor Salvage

// Creatures
4 [TO] Ichorid
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
3 [RAV] Golgari Thug
1 [TO] Cephalid Sage
1 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot

// Spells
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [TO] Breakthrough
3 [TSP] Dread Return
3 [TO] Deep Analysis

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [RAV] Blazing Archon (against stupid fast aggro decks)
SB: 1 [JU] Ray of Revelation
SB: 3 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [US] Gamble
SB: 1 [RAV] Darkblast
SB: 1 [AL] Contagion

Mvg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dlevsApiJ

My only question was, should it be better then Contagian ? :smile:

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Nothing, You can play Contagion for nothing, and it can kill multiple Jailer, Darkblast can't do this.

Gamble isn't good enough, compared to BS or Careful Study, it can search anything, but you also could discard the solution for Gamble, so in the mid or endgame it's worthless.

On my current list, i went back to play Careful Study, it's useful to find a solution in game 2, in game 1 it allows a more or less crazy action with the LED.

Yeah, you can Discard your Solution for Gamble, but with the Gambles you play 6+ solutions of each, so ÿou find it back easier.. It's just that Gamble lets you play more solutions, for more situations.. It finds much easier then Study does (Breakthough is even better sometimes, when you have 2 lands)

And that Contagion is Free is why I play one of them, but removing a black card from hand isnt always possible,, so I also play a Darkblast .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myselves

Gamble isn't good enough, compared to BS or Careful Study, it can search anything, but you also could discard the solution for Gamble, so in the mid or endgame it's worthless.

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If your opponent has the tools to take you to mid/late game, he's basically beaten you already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lukas Preuss

During my third or forth round I played against Andre Müller (?), who is a big German pro in Extended or something, and won through Leyline and Extirpate.

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http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x.../ptval07/final

You are correct on his name.



Q

I am sure this had been asked, but why only play one FKZ? Swinging with hasty zombie tokens seems pretty important.

Because we play 1-2 Cephalid Sage, which lets us dredge more and find Bridges/Narcs/FKZ, so you really dont need 2. FKZ is only in the deck game 1 most of the time anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bovinious

Because we play 1-2 Cephalid Sage, which lets us dredge more and find Bridges/Narcs/FKZ, so you really dont need 2. FKZ is only in the deck game 1 most of the time anyways.

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Yeah, I noticed he is always one of the first cards to boarded out. I hope this deck stays a keeper for at least another year, because I am getting serious with it and used some of my nicer trades to get the Lion's Eye Diamonds. This seems like the combo deck with the most flavor, and maybe Shadowmoor might add too it. Any thoughts on how this deck stands in the current metagame? TES and other tendril combo decks seem to get more respect now.

This deck is a serious contender in the current meta, Ive had great success with it in my local meta ever since Future Sight became legal. This deck can do really well as long as there is not gobs of GY hate, the problem at the moment is not many people play the deck at big events (except for some placings ive seen in Germany), which is a shame. People choose not to play it in fear of hate, but the fact of the matter is you can very often win through hate, and also the hate may not even show up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kicks_422

If your opponent has the tools to take you to mid/late game, he's basically beaten you already.

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*****?
Deadguy?
Deadgoyf?

The success of Ichorid depends on the meta.
Ichorid beats Grow, Landstill and so on, but looses to Fastcombo.
Postboard it can be really hard to play through the hate, or very easy, cause noone exspected Ichorid and played LotV or Jailers. So if a lot of players in your current Meta play Ichorid, playin' Ichorid is a bad choice, or it's the other way around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordEvilTeaCup

Yeah, I noticed he is always one of the first cards to boarded out. I hope this deck stays a keeper for at least another year, because I am getting serious with it and used some of my nicer trades to get the Lion's Eye Diamonds. This seems like the combo deck with the most flavor, and maybe Shadowmoor might add too it. Any thoughts on how this deck stands in the current metagame? TES and other tendril combo decks seem to get more respect now.

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Ichorid seems quite good right now. Landstill and Thresh are two of the biggest decks in the format, and you have good match-ups against both. Looking at the other deck in the format:

Goblins: This match-up is very draw dependent, but you should be looking for a quick start. Mogg Fanatic hurts, and they often bring Tormod's Crypt in from the sideboard. I would not take the Dread Returns package out Game 2, since it's much harder to win slowly with Ichorids and zombies against them.

Survival: Very good. They need early disruption to beat you. Game 2 can be hard if they bring in Yixlid Jailer, but other than that, you should win the majority.

Storm Combo: Kind of a coinflip. They usually are a little faster than you though, although this is somewhat balanced by your use of Cabal Therapies. Depends a lot on luck.

Others: Of decks on the rise, Goyf Sligh is a good match-up, Cephalid Breakfeast is average, and Ancient Tomb based decks are crappy. Dragon Stompy is bad enough, but Angel Stax plays Ghostly Prison and Tabernacle effects which will kill you horribly.

Its good to hear Ichorid is a contender and thanks for the great match up analysis Xero. I have been playing around with the deck and the only thing that baffles me is the optimal draw package. Breakthrough at least as a 3 of seems necessary and beyond debate, DA at least 2 of but I feel more comfortable with 3, and after that comes the fuzzy part. For reference, here is my current list...

// Lands
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass

// Creatures
4 Ichorid
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
2 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

// Spells
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
4 Breakthrough
3 Deep Analysis
3 Dread Return

What I would like to do is -3 Careful Study, + 1 Break Through, Sage, and Dread Return. Still, I am not sure if that is a good move and if Study is needed or not. Thanks.

Edit: No more 5 breakthrough savage tech :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordEvilTeaCup

// Spells
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
3 Breakthrough
3 Careful Study
3 Deep Analysis
2 Breakthrough

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This is some savage tech! I knew we should play more copies of that card :tongue:

You probably mean Dread Return.

In that case NEVER play less than 4 Breakthrough! This card is completely ridiculous! You might want to cut a Study for it.

What he said ^^, you NEVER want less than 4 Breakthrough, Careful Study as Breakthrough 5-6 may be alright over Dread Return #3 and Sage #2, but never in place of Breakthrough.

Ha ha ha, ok I guess its time for me to up breakthrough to 4. Thanks for the help. I think I should cut the study and put in the extra sage like suggested. I noticed myself fizzling when a sage in the bin could have put the juice back on.

Breakthrough is a house in this deck. 4 Dredge effect for U ? Sign me in !! One of the must have 4-ofs aof the deck.


For now, I do think 57(58) cards are engraved in marble//commonly agreed as the bulk (core ?!) of Ichorid Combo.

// Lands : 12
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass

// Creatures : 25
4 Ichorid
4 Putrid Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

// Spells : 20(21)
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
4 Breakthrough
2(3) Deep Analysis
2 Dread Return

For the remaining slots, options are :
- Dread Return #3
- Cephalid Sage//Flame-Kin Zealot #2
- Extra Dredger (mainly Thug #4 as he's quite > Dakmor Salvage)
- Gamble//Careful Study x2-3
- Lone Fancy Monster as reanimation target (Platinum Angel, Akroma and so on...)
- Extra Ichorid effects (Nether Shadow, Ashen Ghoul)
- Extra lands (Undiscoverd Paradise, Dryad Arbor, Dakmor Salvage...)

The first two options solidifies your combo, which is good. But you often side out the combo core for SB solutions to opponent's hate games #2-3 so it's debatable. It also depends of your style of play I think...

The extra dredger (Thug) is fine cause it helps insuring the extra dredge effects on Breakthrough//Coliseum//DeepA. But the core 11 Dredgers are usually enough for that. Sure, if you're somehow a bit unlucky with'em, hug a thug.

Gamble and Study have not the same purpose. Game One they dig for Combo pieces, after that, they dig for SB cards. Careful Study shines in TopDeck mode when your initial attempt "fizzle" (they removed your initial bridges or you dredged crap and coudln't mill you into an additional dredger//WinCon), but if you're facing a lot of Ichorid hosers Gamble into Siboarded cards could be the best solution.

If you go with the fancy monster, Platinum Angel or Akroma seems better SB choices than MD material.

The remaining choices depend of you, but are probably subpar or maybe metagame choices.

The Manabase can be discussed too, but the Rainbow Lands provide more SB options than the U/B one imho.

As reminder, the other manabase choice is :
// Lands
4 Underground Sea
4 Fetches (Polluted Delta)
4 Cephalid Coliseum

Which opens to SB Tropical Island to fetch and Reverent Silence.

About sideboard, it's tough to find a 100% agreed list but those 15 see lots of play :
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Chain of Vapor
4x Pithing Needle//Chalice of the Void
2x Ray of Revelation
1x Ancient Grudge

Sadly, MorningTide doesn't offer much for this deck. (even for SideBoard)


I know, all those informations are quite redundant with the rest of the thread. Still, I hope it'll help newcomers who don't have the courage to read through the 35 pages getting some useful informations.

Beware the mighty Zombie Tokens !!

Do you play Tormod's Crypt and Leyline of the Void in the same sideboard? Shouldn't Crypt be Chalice of the Void?