[Deck] Reanimator

OK my final list for today's tournament will be:

// Lands
2 [APL] Island (3)
1 [CST] Swamp (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [B] Underground Sea
2 [U] Bayou
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
1 [LE] Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 [SHM] Woodfall Primus
1 [ALA] Empyrial Archangel
1 [CFX] Inkwell Leviathan
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria

// Spells
4 [FNM] Reanimate
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [NE] Daze
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [6E] Mystical Tutor
3 [OD] Careful Study
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [US] Exhume

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [R] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [ON] Infest
SB: 3 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 1 [RAV] Blazing Archon

Since my 2nd ordered iona wasn't delivered in time I try playing with only one. Maybe I still get one before the tournament but i am not sure about that. Probably I will get raped because everybody is packing his new Surviving Bant Deck or switching back to pure control.... ;) BTw Inkwell came back in for the missing Iona.

Boarding plan mainly is against non-control to take out counters and discard for more GY protection (in from of bounce, Grip), creature hate (EE, Infest) and Show and Tell. Against U Aggro Control I am thinking of change discard to GY protections (something has to leave mainboard). Against U based control the matchup is hard anyway so I would pack 3 Krosan grip maybe for 1-2 Reanimator targets and/or 1-2 Study. Against any other aggro control / control like Loam you basically just have to take care of GY hate Game 2. Probably Daze is weak in these matchups so it will go out. I really fear Zoo. I havent really played it yet just RG Beatz which is very easy to beat (shut down red a go for the win). Zoo has PtE and enough burn and small creatures to race you. There actually no save Reanimator choice since they either can burn it or remove it. With counterbackup I probably would go for Iona on red.

Don't worry about zoo match-up.
Nearly all your creatures take down zoo singlehandedly.

I made Top 4 ( 16 player tournament) against the following

round 1: merfolk ( 2-1) he can't outspeed me and my counters in G1 and G3, I had to mull back to 5 in G2, and see vial+standstill against me, I brainstorm into nothing. not able to shuffle the library in those 2 turns after.
round 2: Loam-control (2-1) I win on iona, Game 1 ( think I choose red),
game 2, In die due to finding no action on time, I get WoG, chalices,devastating dreams and a worms harvest up high, and lose it.
Game 3, I closely win on akroma. He cannot match the speed she brings, not even with loam+seismic. ( I casted her with reanimate)
Round 3: counterbalance (with NO): (0-2), I already hate this MU, then I also found out after I seized a goyf, casted an empyrrial, he finds more goyfs. 4 of those are pretty unfair ;)
second game, I have an early inkwell leviathan, beat him to 11, he casts NO ( I'm on 10), I forget to time wisely to avoid the top so I could brainstorm. didn't do it, else I could've counter it. I lose shortly after.
Round 4: Naya zoo, I play iona on white, or akroma G1 and G2, he has no way of beating that ( he had to mull twice total those games)
Round 5: ID


Semi-finals: The rock with more hate against me than I could dream off (1-2)
I lose here to my own mistakes which I never ever ever should've made.
But that's how the day went, I made more mistakes in 5 rounds than I can count on both my hands and feet. So to be honest I didn't even deserved to be in that top 4.

short list of mistakes:
dazing creatures, turn afterwards casting exhume. ( pretty fail)
shuffling your counterspells back into your deck while fetching for land.
Choosing the wrong color for iona, ( I somehow choose black against the rock, while I had the perfect hand to beat his face big time with a T1 iona)

since that day I knew.

Sleep is not overrated....

Well my tournament result was quite frustrating. I went 2:4 because everybody and his mother was prepared for Dredge feat. Iona. But let me recount game by game.

Round 1: I am paired against a fellow of mine which is not fun because he plays Affinity and I fear that I cannot match a good start of him.

Game 1: It comes to the obvious. He plays his hand and has a 2nd Turn Plating. I just have Empyrial which blocks for 3-4 rounds due to a hand full of reanimation spells but in the end I do not find a solution. At least I have hate SB. I boarded 12 cards. ALL counterspells went out and all disruption since it is almost useless if he gets a good start. I therefore boarded bounce and Show and Tell since I know he plays Planar Void in his sideboard.

Game 2: I have to take a mulligan (one of many in this tournament). I start with 6 and a mediocre hand. I thoughtseize myself and get Empyrial online the round afterwards. Obviously his start is not too good this time and I can win quite easily.

Game 3: I get a quick EA with Careful Study into the graveyard that gets reanimated. He has like 4 or 5 creatures in play already (Workers, Frogmites). I draw into Infest which clears his board. The following Turn he plays 2 Thoughtcast and plays out his hand again. I go for Sphinx with Show and Tell (he brings in a Master at 10/10) and I beat him to 3. He has plating and 2 black mana the next turn :/ and kills Empyrial. I attack with Sphinx in return. He is on 3. He has no flyers. He is dead.

Round 3: I play against Dredge (with Iona). I feel quite comfortable because Iona on black seems like a good choice. Also I have a not so secret sideboard tech with Blazing Archon.

Game 1: It happens the way I anticipated it. Iona on black seals the win although it was quite close because Ichorids can still produce a large amount of tokens. Close one.

Game 2: I reanimate Empyrial and Sphinx Turn 2 I careful-studied into the GY Turn 1. I feel good although at 3 life. The Dredge guy just comboes off, produced a hell lot of hasty tokens kills Empyrial and me the next turn dispite of the Sphinxs lifegain. :/ Shit! Maybe I should have reanimated more carefully.

Game 3: The turn before I can shut down his deck with Blazing Archon (which I sideboarded along with some other stuff I can't remember) he goes triple Therapy and Iona on black :/. I think it was like Turn 3 or so. I think I misplayed here because I took the wrong card with Thoughtseize Turn 1, but in the end it is hard to tell with Breakthrough and all the dredge action that followed.

Round 3: Bw Vampires. I know the guy. He like to play experimental decks and it is always fun to play against him.

Game 1: He plays all swamps. I think "finally an easy matchup" and pull a Turn 3 Iona on Black. He is complaining that he doesn't draw into a white land to play StoP. I think he is kidding. I win with him not drawing into white as expected. I sideboard the usual package against GY hate and board out some counters.

Game 2: I try to reanimate something Turn 3 (I dont quite remember what it was) but it wasnt Iona because I held no Entomb or Mystical. In response he draws a card with Top and extirpates my Fatty. Uh that was unexpected! Then I get thoughtseized two times and he comes over with creatures. Finally I can land another fatty thanks to Show and Tell. He has: "Gatekeeper of Malakir". AND furthermore he does play white mana sources. I cannot recover from that blow.

Game 3: A quick Akroma (I went for that option because she kills quickest) beats him 2 times but then he finds removal again which I can counter once but he has more ... he then puts down a Relic. Uff I didnt expect that. Game 2 I didnt see any Artefakt GY hate and against Extirpate I can do nothing at all. The reason this matters is because I boarded in Counters again in favor of GY hate (ET, Grip) :/ Bad choice. I manage to go off with an Empyrial some turns later but he has Gatekeeper and a Volrath Stronghold to recur the Gatekeeper.

After the match I tells me that due to the massive amount of Iona Dredge he saw before the tourney he rebuild his deck on short notice to include white. In retrospective I think I mulliganed at least 2 times ... not that it would have mattered.

Round 4: Canadian Threshold. Well, finally a deck I think I can beat because all the removal in Canadian Thresh is just worseless.

Game 1: I get a hand flooded with land and take a mulligan also on the play. The next hand is as bad but nevertheless I keep it. I resolve Brainstorm and see something like: Land, Land, Land :/ When I try to fetch to shuffle it gets stifled 2 times. I expected nothing less but I needed that shuffle. So in the end I am beaten down by a 2 mana green creatures ending with a big F.

Game 2: I start with a good hand so I can combo Turn 3 latest. In his Turn he plays Crypt #1 then Crypt #2 then Crypt #3. His note that he added Crypts in the last second because he saw a lot of Dredge doesnt comfort me. During the game I manage to get rid off 2. But it just takes too much time. Although his starting hand was totally crap he can rebuild and has a hand full of counters.

Both games felt like I never had a chance :/

Round 5: ANT. Well that guy is as pissed as me from loosing 3 games in a row. We exceed each other in complaining about our failures considering the evaluation of the current meta game ... yeah anyway we have to find out how sucks even more.

Game 1: I combo Turn 2, Iona leaves him no options. After 2 Turns of beating he concedes.

Game 2: I combo Turn 2, Iona leaves him no options. After 2 Turns of beating he concedes.

Finally I got good starting hands. Finally the deck did what it should.

Round 6: CounterTop UGrw.

Game 1: I get a perfect start and choose Empyrial over Iona because he cannot block nor remove her. I played her that early (Turn 2) I hope that he cannot race her. He can't I win.

Game 2: We both mulligan to 6. I have boarded the typical GY package. The game keeps on crawling for quite some long time with me countering Counterbalance, gripping Crypts, reanimating something to force to blow up Relic, but my opponent also manages to shut down my attempts to reanimate something useful. I learn that he boarded Spell Pierce the turn I wan't to recall his newly put into play Relic :/ My options are spread thin while he resolves a Counterbalance the next turn. He states that he heard that Counterbalance is good against Reanimator and right he is. He is wise enough to keep 1 and 2 maan spells floating on his deck.

Game 3: See game 2. The crucial play comes Turn 15 or 16 where he is on 8. I have Empyiral in play he has 1 Tarmogoyf. He had some serious Brainstorm, Ponder etc. actions going on for 3 Turns while I have beaten him down with EA. I figured that he is in search for a burn spell to get rid off Empyrial because Goyf is at 5 power. He finds a second Tarmogoyf instead ( I told me after the game that he doesnt play any burn and the Vulcanics are just for Firespout). So I can beat him to 3 but will loose the Angel when he attacks. I am at 6 LP myself so cannot use the Reanimate on my hand to recover him (would be worseless anyway). I check his graveyard because "any" creature will secure my win. There is ... nothing. So the Angel has to go and the last round is lost.

At the table beside me another Reanimtor player looses his final match and he goes 2:4. He tells me that during the last weeks he had great success with the deck. We compare our lists and there is no big difference. What I like about his list is he is just plays 5 reanimation targets, no Studies but 4 Spell Pierce. He also plays Null Rod SB. I think I should have played Pithing Needle to shut down multiple Crypts or Relics or at least be more versatile against GY hate. However I have to dwell on the subject that everbody seemed prepared for Iona in my Meta because of Dredge. Maybe the wind is already changing for Reanimator ... I didnt see that much Aggro in my Meta. There was a lot of Combo (Dredge, ANT) of course, a lot of Thresh and not much Aggro :/ The lonely Merfolk player at the top was a lucky guy these days.

Pro: The decks needs a lot of careful thinking and is fun to play at times. It is not easy to play correctly when hate has to be considered but these interactions are one of the reason to play game, isnt it?
Con: The decks abandons you at times with often mulligans, bad starting hands or just doing nothing relevant. Often you feel helpless against actions on the board because you can of course counter Goyfs and stuff but actually you have to save the counters for fatty protection (either in the GY or after reanimation). Saving you 1 Turn by countering something "irrelevant" often gains nothing although you're going to choose that option if there is nothing else left. I guess that is what is called inconsistency. Especially if you consider Game 2 it often feels like you need 4 different Spells to go off. 1 to take down their Crypt, one to place a creature in the GY, one to reanimate it and one to counter their counter on the reanimation.

congrats on the win Practical Joke, can we get a deck list

there's one in the previous pages and on the top8 lists part of the forum.
The deck keeps changing. Still looking for great additions/surprising additions that make it work better.

I'm back after another extensive bout of testing with the deck. I tested with this list:

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
3 Animate Dead

4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Putrid Imp
4 Entomb

4 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Blazing Archon
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
4 Swamp
1 Island (its always, always, always awful, will likely become another fetch)
3 Verdant Catacombs

I also tested with a build that played -4 Dark Ritual +4 Lotus petal and -1 Animate Dead +1 Mystical Tutor

I didn't keep raw data results for this bout, but here are the conclusions:

Why I play this list I've been testing with this list because I have learned from experience that if you do not land your creature by Turn 3 at the latest [but turn two is ideal] you increase your chances of losing to decks with Tarmogoyf. In the testing I've done with slower builds I lose more games. You may want to write this off to play skill or style and I cannot stop you, but I think it is due to the fact that a 7/7 (or any of the other creatures) become exceptionally less impressive against most decks after turn 3 and then again every turn thereafter.

Lotus Petal I had tested this over Dark Ritual and I was never impressed with it as it took away all of my good turn one hands and made them all turn 2 hands. This translates into losing more games. Having additional blue sources were nice sometimes, but opening myself up to daze [on the draw] for a turn one play was truly awful.

Brainstorm No one should need to explain to anyone else that Bainstorm is among the top tier in card quality in Magic. Because this is a combo deck, I was sometimes able to play a Brainstorm after a spell was countered and magically recoup to win the game. The problem I was discovering was the allure of keeping hands with Brainstorm and not much else going on.

The Loss of Tombstalker Obviously this list entirely eschews Tombstalker. I didn't want it as a crutch of any sort, I didn't even want the temptation of being able to board the card in. This has caused two predictable results.
1. Sideboarding is much more difficult most all of my sidebaording plans have been revised to accommodate that a card that is weak in several match ups is no longer present in the list.
2. My Counter-Top, Tempo-Thresh and Merfolk Match-ups are all significantly worse: In any game one I'm sometimes able to steal games by dropping a mid-game (Turn 4) 5/5 onto the table and preventing attacking or just dealing massive blows to my opponent. In the case of Tempo Thresh and Merfolk, Tombstalker is very commonly an unbeatable win condition.

Brainstorm or Tomstalker? I've played close to 200 games in the flesh against a large gauntlet to attempt to determine which card is 'better' And my results have been inconclusive. 50% of the time my games will end before either card is able to turn on. The card I really want for this slot is something that I can Entomb for that makes a difference, something like Narcomeba that isn't a 1/1. I looked at Life from the Loam for some time, but it seems to require too much dedication, the same way that I believe that Force of Will would require a higher dedication that would dilute and slow the deck.

On Mystical TutorWhen I was initially playing Mysitcal tutor, in was in the Animate Dead #4 slot. And I nearly always wanted Animate Dead over it. There was literally never a time where I was happy to see Mystical Tutor and although there was only one copy, I saw the card far more than I had wished to see it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Di

I play the deck like a combo deck too, primarily because, it is a combo deck. Playing Force of Will doesn't change that premise. It doesn't turn you into a control deck. I listed several reasons to support this. If we were playing Flash, would you be running discard over Force of Will? No. You play Force of Will because it allows you to continue playing your combo game very aggressively while being able to disrupt the opponent for free. Playing discard in those slots slows you down, and then opens you up to topdecked answers, neither of which you want to happen as a combo deck. It's worse that you actually admit a bias can skew your testing results, because it's stifling innovation and arguably stronger slots simply because you don't like it. That, to me, is unacceptable in deck design and progression. But again, you haven't tested the card and come back with results, so I suppose we can wait until you do so before making such judgments.

---

I'm not making the argument that Cabal Therapy is a better card but that it is impractical to play enough blue cards to support Force of Will. Reasons for which are stated above but boil down to the fact that if you don't have a large creature on the table by turn 3 you will lose the game.

Additionally, comparing this deck to flash is absurd. In Flash I could play 30 blue spells. In fact, at Grand Prix Columbus The three flash decks in the top 8 played 25, 27 and 30 blue cards. Where Steve Sadin played 25 because he was using Counter-Top and Tops were likely standing in proxy of what would have otherwise been blue spells, but that is speculation. What is fact is that at the same tournament the fish deck in the T8 played 22 blue spells, the UGR thresh list played 25. Its conventionally accepted a minimum of 20 blue spells must be played to enable consistent use of Force of Will although. It is my observation that a combo deck aiming to use Force of Will would need to play more than 20 blue spells to get effective use out of the card due to the fact that you will likely need to use cantrips and tutors to dig into the cards that do things. The last three lists posted in this tread use 16 17 and 18 blue spells.

How many blue spells do you think can be played until it disrupts the speed of the deck?

How many blue spells do you suggest playing even at cost of pushing the combo back a turn?

Regarding my opinion on playing not having tested Force of Will; have you played a build of the deck that uses Cabal Therapy and Putrid Imp? Because I think it is viable and valid strategy for several reasons and am interested to know if you have tired it before disqualifying it?

And lastly, I've presented raw and unmodified testing data several times in the thread, I'm curious to know what the match-ups are like for the people reading the thread who play Force of Will. I'm more specifically interested in the Counter-Top, Tempo-Thesh and Merfolk match-ups because I am certain that it can be agreed upon that those are the most difficult match-ups.

Conclusion I'm probably going to keep testing the proposed list that I have posted above. Although there are a lot of times that I'm missing Tombstalker. I may eventually move to a 2-2 split between Brainstorm and Tombstalker, although this is clearly a personal choice. People make them.

I'll come back son to respond to comments and a bit later than that with more of my results.

From what I can tell (I don't play reanimator), this deck functions mostly at sorcery speed? If this is correct, perhaps you could run ponder over brainstorm... being able to shuffle is some good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master Shake

Its conventionally accepted a minimum of 20 blue spells must be played to enable consistent use of Force of Will although. It is my observation that a combo deck aiming to use Force of Will would need to play more than 20 blue spells to get effective use out of the card due to the fact that you will likely need to use cantrips and tutors to dig into the cards that do things. The last three lists posted in this tread use 16 17 and 18 blue spells.

Regarding my opinion on playing not having tested Force of Will; have you played a build of the deck that uses Cabal Therapy and Putrid Imp? Because I think it is viable and valid strategy for several reasons and am interested to know if you have tired it before disqualifying it?

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It is generally accepted that 16 is the minimum. Not 20. For a combo deck it may well be 20 but my understanding is that 16 is the minimum for a 'normal' deck. Still, while you may well be using the U cards to dig for your combo, the game also doesn't go for as long and as such, the need to draw into extra U cards to cast FOW isn't as important. <<Disclaimer: Hypothesis>>



If you read Di's post in more detail, you would have noted that he was a big proponent of Cabal Therapy in Reanimator. He then noted it's shortcommings and why he prefers FOW. You failed to quote the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake
The matter of playing Mystical and a billion blue cards to support FoW isn't something I really want to discuss. I feel very stronghly that Cabal Therapy is the best choice for disruption. You apparently do not feel that way.

I've been playing Reanimator since Entomb was unbanned, and originally felt the same way until about a week ago, and I'll at least offer my explanations why.


This would indicate he probably has.
Gotta go. Lunch is over. Will post more soon.

I split the top4 at my local shop last night with a FoW list. I beat countertop twice, one Ugw one Ugr. All my opponents made top8 and two were in the top4, so the list is potent. I'm not sure if counters are better than Therapy + Imp, but I was impressed. I'm a little more fond of the Therapy/Imp list. I believe it has a little more raw power.

Like Practical Joke mentioned, having Fow allows us to name non-white colors against certain decks and this was absolutely relevant twice in the night.

I actually won my Top8 match through 2 Crypts and a Relic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whienot

Like Practical Joke mentioned, having Fow allows us to name non-white colors against certain decks and this was absolutely relevant twice in the night.

---

While this is an important consideration, especially given your recent tournament experience, I still must side with the Therapy route in this deck. This is not to dismiss FoW as completely irrelevant and out of place. It is merely to say that Therapy has the potential to provide more power, versatility, disruption, and protection than does FoW. My reasons for this assertion are below:

1. Proactive vs. Reactive
Therapy is a proactive card. You can cast it before your opponent acts, dealign with threats and hate before they emerge. In some cases, your opponent might get something out before you have a chance to Therapy it away. For the most part, however, you can prematurely disrupt their plans. Of course, we could argue about which is really better; some might say that reaction is better than pro-action in this deck. I contest the opposite; when you invest resources into Entomb/Discard/Reanimate/Creature you want to make sure the coast is clear, not fasten your seatbelts and hope the ride is smooth.

2. Two for One Deal
If you fail to name a card in your opponent's hand, then you can simply use Imp to get a second chance. If, however, you are clever (or lucky) enough to guess right, you effectively get a nice two-for-one disruption swing in your favor. While this technically amounts to no card advantage (Imp/Therapy vs. Card/Card), it is virtual card advantage simply because they have lost cards of substantially higher value than you have (assuming of course that you chose well).

3. Information advantage
Say what you will about looking at a player's hand, but even the harshest detractors of this card must admit that it provides a serious information advantage. This is particularly useful in determining colors to name, cards to bury, future Therapy targets, etc. Again, as I said before, when you invest into the Entomb/Discard/Reanimate/Creature plan, you will feel much better if you know what your opponent has in their hand. Then you only have to worry about a topdeck, instead of a whole hand of potential threats.

4. "Tutorable" with Entomb
You can't tutor for FoW. You can "tutor" for Entomb. This gives you an additional edge in a matchup where you need a quick answer to a potential threat; between Brainstorm, Study, Entomb, and the Therapy's themselves, you are virtually guaranteed to get the disruptive power when you need it.

5. Synergy with Reanimation
In rare scenarios where you have no discard outlets but need to get a creature into the yard, Therapy can help out in a pinch (hardcasted, that is). While you might say this is a rare scenario, and of course it is, FoW would be completely unhelpful in this potentially fatal situation.

6. Works Well Alone. Works Better with Imp
FoW needs another card to do its job. Therapy does not. If you add in another card it will certainly work better, but Therapy is fully functional without having to pitch another card for a relatively similar effect (that of disrupting an opponent).

7. Additional Cost is Expendable
There will be precious few situations where you will be upset to lose your Imp to put a wrench in your opponent's plans (or prevent them from gumming up your own). On the other hand, there will be many hands where you are just plain hesitant to ditch your critical Study or Brainstorm in order to stop an opponent from doing something nasty. Of course, if your mean reanimated monster has already roared into play, then your priority is protecting it. But if you are getting rid of a badly needed discard/card draw component, you might find yourself turns behind in the game as a result. Imp is expendable at almost all points of the game. Brainstorm and Study are not, at least early on.

Those are the big reasons that I see in favor of Therapy. I fully and openly admit that a similar list could be made for FoW (a list that I would love to see if anyone would be willing to present it). I submit this list of reasons only by way of justifying Therapy, not by way of detracting from the value of FoW.

-ktkenshinx-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master Shake

I'm not making the argument that Cabal Therapy is a better card but that it is impractical to play enough blue cards to support Force of Will. Reasons for which are stated above but boil down to the fact that if you don't have a large creature on the table by turn 3 you will lose the game.

Additionally, comparing this deck to flash is absurd. In Flash I could play 30 blue spells. In fact, at Grand Prix Columbus The three flash decks in the top 8 played 25, 27 and 30 blue cards. Where Steve Sadin played 25 because he was using Counter-Top and Tops were likely standing in proxy of what would have otherwise been blue spells, but that is speculation. What is fact is that at the same tournament the fish deck in the T8 played 22 blue spells, the UGR thresh list played 25. Its conventionally accepted a minimum of 20 blue spells must be played to enable consistent use of Force of Will although. It is my observation that a combo deck aiming to use Force of Will would need to play more than 20 blue spells to get effective use out of the card due to the fact that you will likely need to use cantrips and tutors to dig into the cards that do things. The last three lists posted in this tread use 16 17 and 18 blue spells.

How many blue spells do you think can be played until it disrupts the speed of the deck?

How many blue spells do you suggest playing even at cost of pushing the combo back a turn?

Regarding my opinion on playing not having tested Force of Will; have you played a build of the deck that uses Cabal Therapy and Putrid Imp? Because I think it is viable and valid strategy for several reasons and am interested to know if you have tired it before disqualifying it?

And lastly, I've presented raw and unmodified testing data several times in the thread, I'm curious to know what the match-ups are like for the people reading the thread who play Force of Will. I'm more specifically interested in the Counter-Top, Tempo-Thesh and Merfolk match-ups because I am certain that it can be agreed upon that those are the most difficult match-ups.

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16 blue cards is the minimum number for sufficient FoW support. The reason the decks you listed have such a high blue count is because they are blue-based decks. Naturally they will be. These decks are not primarily blue, they are black-based. You are also trying to compare combo decks to control decks, which is incorrect here because the use of Force of Will is drastically different than in a deck like Threshold. My Reanimator list is modeled very closely to the Worldgorger Dragon lists from 1.5 a few years back. I helped pioneer the deck in that format and played it for a long time, from Entomb builds to Bazaar builds, and am very familiar with the structure of a combo deck that runs Force of Will as protection. With those decks (and the same applies here which is the point I'm making) you very rarely need to use Force of Will more than once. It either helps resolve your first animate spell, protects your creature, or it counters a vital threat. After that, you have your win condition on the table and drawing additional protection and disruption isn't as necessary. That's why you can get away with running so few blue cards, because you typically only need to cast it once. If you can do it multiple times that's a plus, but given the deck is consistent enough to put a creature into play by turn 2-3 every game, it generally isn't necessary to need FoW more than once.

This isn't the only deck like that though. Modern Landstill builds also run a very low blue count hovering around 17-20, because they are white-based control decks, not blue. Although they get away with it for different reasons, primarily in having a much stronger card advantage engine and playing at a much slower pace.


Regarding the Flash analogy, you misunderstood me. I was not comparing Reanimator to Flash. That would indeed be absurd. But I was comparing the use of Force of Will in combo decks that can realistically support it to running discard instead. These decks can support Force of Will. Practical Joke's winning list ran 20. My own list, which is for the most part running a very similar blue structure, runs 17. The sideboard runs more that come in virtually every match (Rushing River/Echoing Truth etc), and you almost never go down in blue cards post-board to affect that rate.

Given the questions you propose in that post, I feel like you didn't bother to fully read my arguments. I addressed the concerns of the speed of the deck in reference to Force of Will (which also takes into account the rest of the deck in adjusting to support it). I'll summarize (again) the speed of the deck in relation to Force of Will:

- As a disruption piece, it speeds the deck up. Being free it isn't something you need to play turn 1. That leaves you free to play Entomb, Brainstorm, Mystical, etc. On the defensive side of that argument, Cabal Therapy is played on your turn, and can potentially miss, so the opponent still has an understanding of what they'll do on the following turn. They will still play relevant spells the next turn, which in effect shortens the window for you to win the game. With Force of Will, they play something, you counter it, and they're effectively time walked for the turn, which buys you time. This doesn't apply to pure control decks which have virtually no clock, but against a deck like Zoo, having them be able to play recurring threats through discard doesn't help you. You can Therapy out their Tarmogoyf, but then they play Pridemage. Or with Force of Will, they play Tarmogoyf, and you counter it, and they don't have a creature on the board turn 2, effectively buying you time.

- The blue cards worth adding speed up the deck by themselves. Granted, this can occasionally backfire if you open a 2x Mystical hand or hand with all cantrips and no business, but if you have a tutor turn on turn 1 you are in prime position to go off turn 2. It increases the consistency of the deck tremendously and being as cheap as they are, increases the speed. The event of pushing the combo back a turn depends on how you design the deck. My list is running Mystical Tutor on top of 10 animate effects (4 Exhume, 3 Reanimate, 3 Animate Dead. It isn't as if these cards are going in place of business that would slow the deck down. Mystical enhances the odds of drawing one of them, or Entomb, or in many cases, Dark Ritual. Having direct access to find Dark Ritual speeds the deck up a lot if you're low on lands or playing through Daze.


I have played builds using Putrid Imp and Cabal Therapy. It was even referenced by someone who posted above me, quoting an earlier post of mine, so I'm not talking out of my ass. I played Cabal Therapy in the deck for the last few months up until when I tested a Dragon-inspired design list with Force of Will and haven't looked back.

When I first started playing Reanimator when Entomb was unbanned, my list was monoblack, running Putrid Imp, Entomb, and Buried Alive. Eventually I tested a blue splash for Mystical Tutor, liked it, then naturally progressed further when I realized adding blue was a necessary evolution of the deck. I've played Putrid Imp and Therapy in U/B builds as well, and I still feel it's weaker. Putrid Imp is conditional and weak by itself, and so is Cabal Therapy. If you ran Thoughtseize in addition to Therapy your argument woonly 4 creatures does not support that very well.


Now, as far as matchups go with the Force of Will build, it varies. These are actually the matches it shines the most because these decks use Brainstorm, which shits all over discard.


Countertop: Force of Will is much stronger here. They utilize Top to keep important cards out of the reach of discard by topdecking into them when they need them, and also hide cards with Brainstorm. Using a Cabal Therapy only to see them Brainstorm in response then play Counterbalance the following turn is very discouraging. Force if Will stops any of those shenanigans. It's also far less-likely to be Dazed than Cabal Therapy because it's free, which is highly relevant. As mentioned before, it speeds up the deck because it allows you to play more aggressively because it is free. This is important because it gives them less time to assemble Counter/Top. Although I'll argue that either build might have a 50/50 matchup game 1, but post-board is favorable because Krosan Grip and/or Rushing River really ruin their day, but more favorable for Force builds because of Force of Will and Mystical Tutor. Builds running Mystical Tutor have the ability to directly search for Grip and River. I also run a single Reverant Silence in the sideboard for these matchups, as well as handling Leyline of the Void, because it kills Counterbalance for free.


Tempo Thresh: This is similar to CounterTop, but not having Counterbalance takes a lot of pressure off you. Force of Will is actually stronger in this match due to their mana denial. Being free is absolutely huge given mana is at a premium in this matchup and you won't likely have much of it. The other benefit of Force of Will here is how absolutely terrible Cabal Therapy is in this matchup. Naming cards blindly is very difficult given the variety of counters they have. Post-board you will see Force, Daze, Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, and maybe even REB. Wiffing on Therapy is very easy to do because they are likely to have more, and different ones at that. With FoW, they are forced to choose what to play, and you act from there. If they have multiple counters then you might be sol, but then again the builds running Force of Will are also running Thoughtseize, so we have more actual disruption than you.

Merfolk: I actually don't believe this is a hard matchup at all. Cleverly playing your manabase just wins here. They have no removal, so they scoop to virtually any creature you play. The only hard counter they have is Force of Will, and playing through Cursecatcher and Daze is not difficult, plus they have a weak draw engine. However, this is played very similar to Tempo Thresh. Force shines in matchups that rely on mana denial because it saves you the trouble of using it to play disruption. I don't really have much else to say on this, as it uses the same package (save Spell Snare and Pierce) as Threshold.

So Di, have you posted a decklist on this thread?
Would be nice to see you list.
Or are you keeping your cards close?

I have not posted a decklist yet, but I'll add one here. I'm currently working with a lot of different things with Reanimator, so I have roughly 4-5 lists that see regular testing. The one I'm working with most closely is a bit different from the lists in this thread, because it uses a very low creature count (only 4 creatures) and replaces those extra slots with additional draw and bury spells. I have additional builds with standard higher creature counts and Careful Study, builds with Putrid Imp, and monoblack lists, but I favor the list I'm going to post because it has the fewest number of dead draws and has a much stronger midgame against control decks. Explanations will be provided after the list.

I will mention that this list isn't exact and is still in testing (although I've brought it to both large and small events) so keep that in mind. Nothing is definate, I just like the direction it's taken so far.

1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Inkwell Leviathan/Empyrial Archangel
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon

4 Entomb
2 Buried Alive
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Careful Study/Show and Tell
3 Mystical Tutor

4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize

4 Exhume
3 Reanimate
3 Animate Dead

4 Dark Ritual
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Swamp
1 Island

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
1 Hurkles Recall
1 Reverant Silence
2 Krosan Grip
2 Rushing River
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Extirpate
2 Duress
1 Empyrial Archangel/Inkwell Leviathan
1 Thunder Dragon


As you can see, the primary difference here is between the use of Ponder and Careful Study. Traditional builds use Careful Study as a graveyard-enabling outlet, whereas I am testing Buried Alive instead, and use Ponder as additional search to find cards. Going into specific card choices (or lack of) that require explanation:

4 Creatures maindeck: Most builds run in the range of 7-10 creatures. That's suitable to their builds, but I feel that Careful Study is a terribly weak draw spell outside the situation where you dump a creature, and drawing those excess creatures is a liability. By running as few creatures as necessary, you don't run into those potential dead draws or opening hands that you terrible because you see 2 or more of them without discard outlets. With a design that doesn't feature discard outlets, it's more beneficial to run fewer creatures. The actual creature suite varies week after week, but this is what I'm using currently. Despite the weaknesses of Blazing Archon, I still feel it's good enough against most of the metagame to warrant a maindeck slot. The Archangel/Inkwell slot depends on the metagame, but either way a shroud creature is in both slots in the main and side. The sideboard Thunder Dragon is something I've liked a lot and haven't seen anywhere else in this thread. Against horde decks many times they will have an answer to the creature you play, be it with StP, Path to Exile, Wierding, etc. Archangel often isn't enough against these decks because they'll blow right by it and kill her then continue to play aggro. Thunder Dragon provides a board-sweeping effect against these decks will still providing a clock, but even if it's killed, it did it's job in killing their board to slow them down. This is huge against decks like Merfolk and Goblins.

1 Careful Study/Show and Tell: After continuous testing of the deck running 8-10 creatures, I got tired of opening hands that had 2+ creatures and no Careful Study or using Careful Study/Putrid Imp and having no creatures to discard with it, and drawing creatures midgame without discard outlets greatly bothered me. That, to me, really hurt the consistency and power of the deck, so I took a different approach by using Ponder instead. However, I keep the single Careful Study as a bullet in the event I have creatures in hand. However, I'm also testing Show and Tell in this slot, because if I have the option of discarding it, I might as well directly put it into play. Further testing will prove the best option there.

Ponder: Ponder is a stronger draw spell and helps dig for anything you need, which is sufficient given I run a different suite of bury spells. Given the higher reliance on bury spells as I don't run discard outlets, Ponder is much better because it finds them quickly. It is very strong as an opening play as it builds you up for a strong turn 2, and it's a much better topdeck than Careful Study. You could make the argument that topdecking a Careful Study will be good because it will dump creatures in your hand, but in defense of this decklist, you almost never draw creatures, so that isn't an issue.

Buried Alive: This is arguably the biggest eyebrow-raising card in the decklist. It costs 2B so it is slower, but the benefits it has outweigh the speed of the card. The biggest thing for me is that it is multiple guaranteed Entomb. I say guaranteed because casting Careful Study does not necessarily yield you creatures in the graveyard. Buried Alive, although more expensive, puts multiple creatures in the yard and sets you up for 2 animates the following turn. It gives additional use and strength to Dark Ritual as well because that really helps circumvent the casting cost restriction of the card. In most cases, it is unacceptable if you can't reanimate by turn 3. Granted, it is rare you aren't able to find Entomb by then to do so, but in the case of Buried Alive, this is generally offset by reanimating multiple creatures at once if you happen to do that turn 4. If you have Dark Ritual, it's faster, so that negates any issues. I chose to run this over Intuition solely for the fact that it still allows the deck to run as few creatures as possible. Intuition requires multiple copies of Iona and such to ensure putting them in the graveyard, and that interferes with the design of this particular build.

The sideboard is based on my personal preferences. I run a split of Needle, Hurkles Recall, Grip, and Rushing River for different anti-grave hate packages depending on the matchup. My own graveyard hate is for Ichorid and the mirror. Despite people believing Ichorid is a highly favorable matchup, it can be incredibly difficult if they are competent pilots. Exhume is a potential liability in returning GGT or Stinkweed Imp, and they can race very easily. Granted, game 1 Blazing Archon beats them, but post-board you also have to deal with Chain of Vapor as well. This just helps solidify the odds of winning that matchup. The same goes for the mirror. For those who've played the mirror, it's a lame match to play. This simply helps that out. The Extirpate is also boarded in for control matchups too. Hitting their counters and whatnot goes a long way towards winning. The additional Duress are also there for the control matchup. Given decks like Tempo Thresh have an absurd amount of counters, the added protection helps.


Again, this is just a test list, but it's given me the best and most consistent results of any of the decklists I've played. It certainly has a different playstyle to it, but it's much better for those who want to minimize the number of dead draws in the deck and maximize the potential consistency and card advantage it can offer.

Master Shake, I had a couple of questions about your build since I plan on testing one similar to yours. Which matchups do you try to bring out the Tidespout Tyrant? I've played Reanimator with the toolbox approach before, but it seems I would almost always want to get Iona (hands down the best creature to reanimate) and for versatility, usually only the Empyrial Archangel. Also, how is Blazing Archon working for you? I used to run him since he is an autowin against Ichorid game 1 and is a pain in the ass for Merfolk if they don't have White. But against any W or B deck with removal he's awful IMO. Zoo just Paths him, and the expensive nine mana cost with Reanimate makes me dislike him even more.

Also, are you still running this sideboard?

4 Echoing Truth
4 Krosan Grip
4 Spell Pierece
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rushing River

I like the simplicity with so many 4-ofs, as well as being focused on hate against you (11 bounce/destruction spells). Do you still only use Grip when you know they have blue, and Echoing Truth all other times? And also, when do you decide when the Hurkyl's Recalls and Rushing Rivers go in? They all seem like viable answers, but that's a lot of cards to side out of your maindeck. And is Spell Pierce just there for hate that's not graveyard-specific? I guess I'm just asking for an explanation of your entire sideboard lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Linkin Pac

Master Shake, I had a couple of questions about your build since I plan on testing one similar to yours. Which matchups do you try to bring out the Tidespout Tyrant? I've played Reanimator with the toolbox approach before, but it seems I would almost always want to get Iona (hands down the best creature to reanimate) and for versatility, usually only the Empyrial Archangel. Also, how is Blazing Archon working for you? I used to run him since he is an autowin against Ichorid game 1 and is a pain in the ass for Merfolk if they don't have White. But against any W or B deck with removal he's awful IMO. Zoo just Paths him, and the expensive nine mana cost with Reanimate makes me dislike him even more.

Also, are you still running this sideboard?

4 Echoing Truth
4 Krosan Grip
4 Spell Pierece
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rushing River

I like the simplicity with so many 4-ofs, as well as being focused on hate against you (11 bounce/destruction spells). Do you still only use Grip when you know they have blue, and Echoing Truth all other times? And also, when do you decide when the Hurkyl's Recalls and Rushing Rivers go in? They all seem like viable answers, but that's a lot of cards to side out of your maindeck. And is Spell Pierce just there for hate that's not graveyard-specific? I guess I'm just asking for an explanation of your entire sideboard lol.

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I've been considering writing up a detailed report of how I generally sideboard in specific matches so I guess the time has come:

Note This are all for an unknown metagame. In smaller metagames people are generally afraid to bring a deck without extensive graveyard hate n the extra 15. However, at a larger scale event people will be more likely focus on shoring up unfavorable matches that have an really chance of making an impact and will often leave the Crypts at home.

Overall General Strategy or OGS This the default plan for boarding out when going into a game 2:

On the draw: -4 Dark Ritual +4 Answer to anticipated hate (Either +4 Echoing Truth or Krosan Grip)
On the Play: -2 Creatures -2 Brainstorm/Cabal Therapy (If you are using Tombstalker unless you are playing against Counter-top, Threshold or Merfolk Tombstlkers nearly always come out.)

Specific Sideboarding Plans

Affinity: Affinity boards are always screwy but you can expect to see a crypt in there. OGS But Hurkyl's Recall can come in here in the place of what would be 2 Echoing Truth. Creature 1 ad 2 are Iona in this case. An Alternative plan of -3 Iona +1 Echoing Truth +2 Recall could be used

ANT/NLS: -1 Blazing Archon -1 Empyrial Archangel -1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind +3 Spell Pierce (You would probably want to bring the 4th one in for something as well.) Tidespout stays in for its ability to turn off Infernal Tutor. Its not the ideal target but it can keep your opponent on the ropes.

Counter-Top: They probably will not bring in graveyard hate. See OGS Where creature 1 is Tidespout Tyrant and Creature 2 is Blazing Archon

Dragon Stompy: I don't think too many people play this anymore, and I haven't had the opportunity to play against it, but to speculate it would involve -4 Dark Ritual both game 1 and 2 and +4 Echoing Truth, perhaps Spell Pierce on the play.

Dreadstill: I find this to be the most difficult MU now, thankfully its not often played. I board (On the draw) -4 Dark Ritual -2 Putrid Imp -1 Empyrial Archangel -3 Animate Dead +4 Krosan Grip +4 Spell Pierce +1 Rushing River +1 Echoing Truth. This allows you the ability to counter Counterbalance or Stifle targeting Dreadnought on Turn 2 should that present itself. It also gives you the ability to participate in a counter war. (On the Play) -4 Brainstorm -1 Empyrial Archangel +3 Krosan Grip +2 Spell Pierce

Dredge: Despite what Di suggests, I have enjoyed a X-0 (Where X is at least 15) match record against the deck and feel that this is highly favorable. I sideboard as follows; -4 Cabal Therapy +4 Echoing Truth -4 Brainstorm +4 Spell Pierce. If you anticipate Leyline (Which has been on the decline in Dredge lists) you can augment for additional bounce spells. Spell Pierce can negate the bounce spell for your Iona or stifle any quick start they may wish to employ via Breakthrough.

Elf combo and other elf non-sense: This should be straight forward. OGS where you can probably sideboard out any creature.

Enchantress: You can expect them to bring in more Ground Seal and perhaps even Orim's Chant. My suggested sideboarding plan is OGS Where Creature 1 is Blazing Archon, Creature 2 is Empyrial Archangel and +4 Spell Pierce.

Eva Green: You have to expect Leyline and the discard that they have paired with it is going to be a bitch. OGS Where creature 1 is Blazing Archon and Creature 2 is Tidespout Tyrant (Although I have hardcast Tryrant in this MU more than once.) -3 Therapy +4 Echoing Truth +1 Rushing River.

Goblins (Mono Red): They will likely have Relic/Crypt in the 4-5 range. OGS 1 Tidesot Tyrant and instead of a second creature -3 Cabal Therapy.

Goblins (Rgb and Rb): There is a chance for Extripate here, so I suggest keeping Therapy in and instead going for -3 Brainstorm -1 Tidespout.

Goyf Sligh and Burn - Follow OGS Where creature one is an Iona (or Blazing Archon) and creature 2 is Tidespout Tyrant.

Landstill: OGS Where creature 1 is generally Blazing Archon and creature 2 is Sphinx of the Steel Wind.

Merfolk: Although it sucks, going OGS for Grip is what must be done. Creuatre 1 is Sphinx of the Steel Wind and creature 2 is Empyrial Arhcangel (it will only ever Fog) Tidespout stays in as a second reanimation choice as it is able to bounce Vial. I've lost games due to Vial after Iona is down.

Tempo Thresh: Generally No sideboard as they will often not have anything to bring in. Be careful not to show a Tempo-Thresh player your Bayous at all, because Submerge can be a problem.

White Stax: On the Play: -1 Empyrial Archangel -1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind -4 Brainstorm +3 Echoing Truth +2 Hurkyl's Recall +1 Rushing River. Additionally you can bring in Spell Pierce in an attempt to quash Chalice @ 1/ Trinisphere.

Zoo: No expected hate should be coming in. Its a stupidly favorable match anyway.

This should really count for most of the decks you will see at a given tournament. I'll post again later to comment more on what has happened in the thread.

I see 2 types of reanimate decks here.

The one is mostly black with putrid imp and dark ritual ( using therapy as protection).
The other one is more blue and plays FoW+ daze as protection.

I shall never say one is better than the others , since i haven't played the first one on tournament level.

About the match-ups with FoW/daze.

those against merfolk,tempo-***** and counterbalance.
Counterbalance is still tricky, but playing daze gives an option to either get it through, or push their own counterhand to do the hard work while you go off a turn later with an answer ( mana stuff) to counterbalance. It's far from an easy match-up, but it's acceptable. For me it's the worst match-up available, but it is acceptable.

Tempotresh shouldn't be too hard now. You got off with 1 or 2 protection, maybe cast a thoughtseize, etc. One threat should be enough to close the deal, they are low on creatures and that burn will have to do some extremely hard work to get there. Mana denial is not much of a problem since I use petals, not fun either, but you can play with a single land and petal.

Merfolk is tricky, if they get a vial, standstill, wasteland hand on the play, you'll be praying for an insane good hand. If they don't, the match-up isn't that bad, they have problems outracing either an iona or inkwell, even akroma is working hard due to their lack of removal.


those are my 2 cents, I do hope that we can get a few nice results out with the Putrid imp/cabal therapy lists. Keep us updated.
I have another small tournament tomorrow, and I'll go with the Blue/Black counter list since It earned from scratch ( started 2 months ago with the legacy environment) and earned me a static bye so far for GP Madrid ( just have to keep it up high enough).

I haven't seen many ichorid and affinity decks around here. I think the meta doesn't really allow those 2 to shine, and affinity isn't very good either.That's why I think getting a blazing archon isn't necessary anymore.

Done a 30+ man tournament yesterday and it went disastrous. I went 4-2, but it wasn't satisfying. I'll explain below.

First round:
Goblins (2-0), he stood no chance, I went off quite fast both times.

Second round:
Goblins (2-0), again he stood no chance, crappy goblins list and an even worse player.

Third round:
Goblins (1-2): he started the game, I couldn't find any action and he went insane. nothing much to do about it.
Second game I go T1 akroma, he scoops immediatly after seeing he cannot get rid of it and it eats his goblins easily before he can start outracing me.
third game: he has a slow start, I have a no-land hand with 2 petals and a very good set-up to go off on T2 if I drew a single land. No lands were found in the following 8 turns.

Fourth round:
Homebrew landdenial (1-2)
I win easily by getting an akroma into play. His bitterblossom doesn't do a single thing.
He wins the second match with well-placed counters and thoughtseizes.
Third game, I needed a single land to win the game, ( show and tell, he was holding extirpates), but I only found 6 reanimate spells in a row. his tombstalker did the rest of the work.

Fifth and sixth round ( 2-1 and 2-0)
Both Aggro-loam, that deck is practically a bye for reanimate. the only way they can win is by having a first turn chalice and being very lucky I don't draw into either bounce, exhume or show and tell)



So a bit dissapointed in the end, there should've been much more to gain that day especially since the match-ups weren't that bad after all.

I played the following list and I will keep playing it for some time besides some SB changes ( won't write down that SB)

multiple fetch for avoidance tempotresh peedle locks

3 underground sea
2 bayou
3 polluted delta
3 verdant catacombs
1 bloodstained mire
1 marsh flats
1 island
1 swamp

4 lotus petal

4 reanimate
4 exhume
4 entomb
4 daze
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
3 careful study
3 mystical tutor
4 thoughtseize
1 echoing truth
1 show and tell

2 iona, shield of emeria
1 akroma, angel of wrath
1 empyrial archangel
1 inkwell leviathan

I'm guessing those were mono red Goblins builds. Rw and Rb can be tough for us. Rb with Warren Weirding are especially tough for versions without Putrid Imp.

Also, I hate basic islands in this deck. In a deck with so few lands, I really want to be able to win off any of them. Maybe it's bad luck, but I've had to ship back otherwise great hands because I couldn't make black. I know these are rare, but we should minimize these as much as possible. I almost want to run Watery Graves and Underground Rivers, but both are pretty terrible.

And a blurb from Worldwake:
Admonition Angel, a 6/6 flying creature which exiles a permanent each time a land comes onto the battlefield under your control. Those permanents come back if Admonition Angel leaves the battlefield.

Seems good.

@ Practical Joke

I blame your landscrew woes on your low land count. 15 land is far too low, even with Petals. You absolutely need to hit at least 2 every game (well maybe about 5% of the time you can get away with 1) and running so few, even with draw spells, won't get you there reliably. I personally wouldn't go any lower than 17. Losing games to landscrew where you shouldn't is just really disappointing, so I'd try to avoid doing that to yourself at all costs. I can't imagine how a build with only 15 lands, 8 of those fetchlands, has a chance at consistently beating a deck like Tempo Thresh or Merfolk. Hitting only a single land in that instance is seriously bad, where if you ran more land you could get around that much easier.

Also, how did that disruption package work out? It'd seem as though running a full 12 cards would disrupt the consistency and flow of the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whienot

Also, I hate basic islands in this deck. In a deck with so few lands, I really want to be able to win off any of them. Maybe it's bad luck, but I've had to ship back otherwise great hands because I couldn't make black. I know these are rare, but we should minimize these as much as possible. I almost want to run Watery Graves and Underground Rivers, but both are pretty terrible.

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The single Island sucks, and nobody will argue that. But it is a necessary evil. This deck needs to have a blue source that is untouchable to hate because of how fragile the manabase is to Wasteland. Although it's occasionally been problematic for me as well when I've sat there glaring at it and wishing it produced black, the basic Island has won me several games that I wouldn't have won had that been something else. It needs to stay.

To be Honest, I don't blame my landcount that day.
I've played this deck a pretty lot, what had costed me that game was a bit of bad luck and a bad mulligan choise. All were MRG with stingscourcher. Even the few warren weirdings they can run, won't get that deck a win.

Why I only play 15 lands and 4 petals. You cannot imagine how often I picked up more than 5 lands in a game I won/loss early. Those dead landdraws really kill the deck.

The basics are indeed a necessary evil, it's not fun, but having a single wasteland looking at you, isn't fun either. I also run them since I do see a back to basics once in a while. 2 basics give you some gameplan to play with.

Haven't tested enough against tempotresh to know the complete match-up if it's good or not. but so far it's not a good match-up but neither a real bad one. A single threat is either game ( iona for red, or blue with counterback-up, inkwell and empyrial also let them empty their hands or die by her hands)

Merfolk is doable, they have to go really aggressive to be able to outrace me. Be aware of sowers+ vial. They can screw your game-plan.

The disruption plan works as intended, getting a nice lot of counters/discard makes the deck being able to able to deal with counterbalance and tempotresh and merfolk.