[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

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Originally Posted by Jain_Mor

There's also 1GW Human something 3/2
When it etb if a permanent left your battlefield this turn, you may return a permanent CMC 2 or less from GY to battlefield.

Pretty fun card for the low to the ground maverick like builds

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Just came here to talk about this card. Earlier today when we had the Jace VP discussion I was entertaining the idea of a build using Unearth with some sub 3 CMC creatures. Something like Knight of the Reliquary could go a long way in such a build.

This creature is pretty nice, I don't know how many things we're interested in reanimating at that CMC but I really like the card. I think it's on par with Eternal Witness, maybe even better. I like that it can return a fetchland outside of making your normal land drop.

Nic Fit might not be the right shell for it because I don't think ramp plays well with the game plan (unless you bring back STE) but it has my value sense tingling. Could this be a cycle even? Maybe we'll be getting a GB one and a GR one? Or did that slot goto the Constrictor?

I could definitely see Maverick playing this, using Wasteland to enable Revolt, then bringing back Wasteland to hit you again. I like the idea of this being a 3 mana STE though, except it can get duals through fetches.

4 Veteran Explorer
4 baleful strix
1 Scavenging ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Leovold, Emissary Of trest
1 Thragtusk
4 Brainstorm
3 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green sun's Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
2 Nissa, Vital Force
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Forest
2 Island
1 Swamp

This is the kind of deck I would be interested in running post aether revolt as now that BUG has a path replacement It becomes a lot more appealing and with the addition of brainstorm I feel we can run less redundancy and just play the most powerful effects.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

That's a reasonable opinion. I think they are more playstyle based, kinda like Meren. I play the deck much more controlling than most people do, I've come to conclude, so I usually leverage a bit more out of cards like that. Leaning down with Bolts and extra Decays is fine if you want to be a bit more aggressive, which just isn't really my thing as much.

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Just wanted to pipe in and say that I also lean towards a grindy play style. To me, and I think this is especially true if you look back to the original Nic Fit lists that Caleb Durward popularized, the idea of the deck was to survive as step 1 and win as step 2. Our threats should outclass everyone but combo if we get to Stage 3, so the deck should be built to reach Stage 3 without dying. Sometimes the way you survive (against combo, for example) is by applying early pressure and disruption or hurling Spaghetti before you get stormed out, but it's all about the line that leads to not dying.

Everyone plays differently, and I'm not knocking the 4-Rhino approach, but if I want to stick threats and hope they're good enough I'd probably run reanimator or Tarmogoyfs and Knights of the Reliquary. I will be keeping the Punishing Fires in Sneak Fit for the time being, as I've found them valuable against Tezzerator, Shardless, and Miracles in addition to the small-bore aggro decks like Elves (who usually can't answer P-Fire) and D&T.

I have occasionally wanted another Abrupt Decay, however. Oh well :-\, we can't have it all.

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Originally Posted by mstephenson

4 Veteran Explorer
4 baleful strix
1 Scavenging ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Leovold, Emissary Of trest
1 Thragtusk
4 Brainstorm
3 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green sun's Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
2 Nissa, Vital Force
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Forest
2 Island
1 Swamp

This is the kind of deck I would be interested in running post aether revolt as now that BUG has a path replacement It becomes a lot more appealing and with the addition of brainstorm I feel we can run less redundancy and just play the most powerful effects.

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Aren't 4 gsz AND 4 BS too much?
I feel like the deck is a bit light on gas too, although I like it overall because it seems pretty similar to what Navsi and I posted yesterday.
I'd add 1 walker (lili or 4cmc garruk, relentless or wildspeaker), 1 tracker, 1 drs and 1 big dude (gearhulk or prime time) instead of the brainstorms. Then my list is identical.

Or if you don't want to cut BS I'd play less GSZ. They both are consistency cards and you seem to be low on creatures anyways.

With 4 spells like BS we play less creatures and the deck becomes an underpowered team America deck without forces plus veterans in my humble opinion.
GSZ means veterans triggers in the early game, stabilisation in the mid game, and pw protection/win con in the late game.

I like meren here as the 61st card in this 4 strixes deck.

I think of this deck as a GB Nic fit deck that splashes U for value and a more controlling approach, rather than a "blue deck". I like the grinding-controlling aspect of this deck and maybe, this is what I feel we have to discover eventually, the new card makes the deck more viable than it has been until today.

I think Renegade Rallier might be good enough.

- It's a Human and can be Zenithed.
- Under most circumstances (if you cracked a fetchland) it's a 3/2 Wood Elves, which is a pretty solid value card.
- Goes infinite with Saffi Eriksdotter and a sac outlet
- fetching him with Birthing Pod gets the 2-drop you fed into Pod back
- Recurs Stoneforge, Voice of Resurgence, Deathrite, Veteran Explorer, Jitte (!) and Scavenging Ooze.

It looks to me a lot like Matter Reshaper, which Arianrhod was doing some testing with, but easier to cast and with more combo potential in exchange for not hitting Deeds.

Edit: Having done a bit of searching, it doesn't look like there are any good + cheap free sacrifice outlets available in Abzan colours for the Rallier + Saffi combo, sadly. The deck would either have to splash red for Goblin Bombardment, or run a Crypt Champion in a pod shell and a Blood Artist effect, which seems like a lot of moving parts - although most of them are playable individually at least. I do think Rallier for value is legitimately good, even just as an efficient way of recurring lands, creatures and equipment for a cheaper mana investment than Eternal Witness.

The key part for revolt is it triggers off of fetches, cabal therapy and Sensei's top. All of which we already run, so we ought to pay attention to the cards.

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Originally Posted by Jain_Mor

The key part for revolt is it triggers off of fetches, cabal therapy and Sensei's top. All of which we already run, so we ought to pay attention to the cards.

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Yeah Revolt is basically always on for free in most Legacy decks as far as I can tell. There aren't many options beyond Fatal Push that look like they'll make a particularly large splash right now though.

Greenwheel Liberator is a 1G 4/3 which is okay, but probably outclassed by Goyf. Not being graveyard dependent is nice, though.

Aid From the Cowl is the other one to look at. We can fix it and turn on Revolt with just a SDT (spin top, respond by tapping to put it below the card we want from the trigger and turn on Revolt). If we don't have a fatty to drop into play it's still drawing us an additional card each turn if we just have Aid put the SDT straight back into play, or additional land drops etc. Five mana is a lot though. I'm tempted to give it a shot in Nyx Fit but it might just be too slow there, although the more I think about it the better it looks as an engine. It's also pretty funny with Sterling Grove.

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Originally Posted by Navsi

I think Renegade Rallier might be good enough.

- It's a Human and can be Zenithed.
- Under most circumstances (if you cracked a fetchland) it's a 3/2 Wood Elves, which is a pretty solid value card.
- Goes infinite with Saffi Eriksdotter and a sac outlet
- fetching him with Birthing Pod gets the 2-drop you fed into Pod back
- Recurs Stoneforge, Voice of Resurgence, Deathrite, Veteran Explorer, Jitte (!) and Scavenging Ooze.

It looks to me a lot like Matter Reshaper, which Arianrhod was doing some testing with, but easier to cast and with more combo potential in exchange for not hitting Deeds.

Edit: Having done a bit of searching, it doesn't look like there are any good + cheap free sacrifice outlets available in Abzan colours for the Rallier + Saffi combo, sadly. The deck would either have to splash red for Goblin Bombardment, or run a Crypt Champion in a pod shell and a Blood Artist effect, which seems like a lot of moving parts - although most of them are playable individually at least. I do think Rallier for value is legitimately good, even just as an efficient way of recurring lands, creatures and equipment for a cheaper mana investment than Eternal Witness.

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Blasting Station is what you're looking for here.

Agreed that Rallier is worth keeping an eye on. It's functionally a slightly different E.Wit -- it will have scenarios where you would rather have Rallier and scenarios where you would rather have Wit, so it's certainly playable. I like it in the 4-color versions with Strix, especially.

The only /real/ combo potential I see with it is something like Brael was trying, with Dark Depths. I tend to think that Project X style combos are more effort than they're worth, especially in a format like legacy where running a creature/graveyard-based combo is basically suicidal.

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Originally Posted by Navsi

Edit: Having done a bit of searching, it doesn't look like there are any good + cheap free sacrifice outlets available in Abzan colours for the Rallier + Saffi combo, sadly. The deck would either have to splash red for Goblin Bombardment, or run a Crypt Champion in a pod shell and a Blood Artist effect, which seems like a lot of moving parts - although most of them are playable individually at least. I do think Rallier for value is legitimately good, even just as an efficient way of recurring lands, creatures and equipment for a cheaper mana investment than Eternal Witness.

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Junk has four sac outlets.
Viscera Seer
Cartel Aristocrat
Varolz, the Scar Striped
Blasting Station

There's Altar of Dementia, Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Alter, Spawning Pit and Sadistic Hypnotist too.

The problem is that none of them are both a) good when you aren't comboing off, b) tutorable in a reasonable way and c) actually kill your opponent without a fourth card.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

The only /real/ combo potential I see with it is something like Brael was trying, with Dark Depths. I tend to think that Project X style combos are more effort than they're worth, especially in a format like legacy where running a creature/graveyard-based combo is basically suicidal.

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Oddly enough, I don't see potential with DD here. If you want to get a combo piece back, Eternal Witness already does that and it's not a conditional trigger. It also keeps you out of a third color. I think this card needs to be getting back actual bodies. I like the idea of getting back Bob/Goyf/DRS/SFM but it's not really a Nic Fit build that's doing that.

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Originally Posted by Brael

Oddly enough, I don't see potential with DD here. If you want to get a combo piece back, Eternal Witness already does that and it's not a conditional trigger. It also keeps you out of a third color. I think this card needs to be getting back actual bodies. I like the idea of getting back Bob/Goyf/DRS/SFM but it's not really a Nic Fit build that's doing that.

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Agreed that E. Witness is probably better. I usually use witness to get back a Deed or a Decay or a land. I could certainly see getting a Vet or a DRS, but it's situational and ultimately saves you 1 mana over witness. I wouldn't return a Steve. The loss in flexibility doesn't seem to be worth the 1-2 mana savings you're getting here and value combos to make better use of the card are suboptimal compared to "kill you" combos.

I went 2-2.

Won aginst Bug Delver and Food Chsins

Lost aginst 4 color delver and infect. The meta seems alright for nicfit now.

I really like Dryd Arbor to get with Green Sun. Really help me with ramp and mana.

Nissa, Virtal Force is a house. Won a game aginst Bug delver because he didn't expectde a 5/5 haste.

I also got to return Deed twice with Nissa in the same game.

I like the deck but I want one more Bayou and remove a Marsh Flats. I feel I miss a fourth dualland sometimes. I got wastelanded a few times.

Hey guys...I've been messing around with Gitrog in a Nic Fit shells as of late. Was hoping to get some feedback on my build and figured this might be the best place to post it even if its not your "typical" Nic Fit deck. Here's the list:

Veteran Explorer x4
Cabal Therapy x4
GSZ x4
Abrupt Decay x4
Pernicious Deed x4
Gitrog x3
Life From the Loam x3
Eternal Witness x2
Hymn to Tourach x2
Bog Down x2
Noose Constrictor x2
Titania, Protector of Argoth x1
Sylvan Safekeeper x1

Gemstone Mine x4
Tranquil Thicket x2
Barren Moor x2
Wasteland x4
Forest x6
Swamp x6

As you can see I have the mana base of a peasant considering I don't have access to duals, fetches, or shocks. Honestly though it hasn't been much of an issue since I'm only running two colors and have Veteran Explorer.

Basically the setup I'm running has the typical Nic Fit shell with the rest of the cards designed for maximum Gitrog synergy. Life from the Loam is obvious and with that I find that Gemstone Mine is one of the best lands in the deck for me. Same with the cycle lands that draw two cards with the frog out. Titania finishes the game off super fast once I have a nice board state; I debated Nissa in this slot but I kind of like Titania more due to the interaction with Gitrog and the fact that I can tutor for her. Safekeeper protects my frog. Noose Constrictor is a boss in this deck and there have been times when I've been able to draw my whole deck and buff him endlessly with him and the frog on the board.

Bog down in unconventional but with the frog out its essentially draw two they discard three. I really like having those and the Hymns which along with the Therapies have lead to instances where I'm able to completely destroy my opponents hand on my second turn i.e. T1: therapy; T2: VE (flashback therapy), Hymn (probably my favorite way to open the game).

Wasteland is also unconventional but I really like being able to recur it with life from the loam and once again Gitrog loves when lands die.

The next card I want to get my hands on is SDT but I'm not sure what to cut from the list to make room. If I ever get fetch lands I will try out DRS. Fatal Push looks busted so I guess I'll have to test him out but once again not sure what to cut.

I'd really like to fit white into the deck somehow for swords mainly but I'm not sure that's a good idea unless I get my hands on a better mana base.

What do ya'll think?

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Originally Posted by Purple Blood

Hey guys...I've been messing around with Gitrog in a Nic Fit shells as of late. Was hoping to get some feedback on my build and figured this might be the best place to post it even if its not your "typical" Nic Fit deck. Here's the list:

Veteran Explorer x4
Cabal Therapy x4
GSZ x4
Abrupt Decay x4
Pernicious Deed x4
Gitrog x3
Life From the Loam x3
Eternal Witness x2
Hymn to Tourach x2
Bog Down x2
Noose Constrictor x2
Titania, Protector of Argoth x1
Sylvan Safekeeper x1

Gemstone Mine x4
Tranquil Thicket x2
Barren Moor x2
Wasteland x4
Forest x6
Swamp x6

As you can see I have the mana base of a peasant considering I don't have access to duals, fetches, or shocks. Honestly though it hasn't been much of an issue since I'm only running two colors and have Veteran Explorer.

Basically the setup I'm running has the typical Nic Fit shell with the rest of the cards designed for maximum Gitrog synergy. Life from the Loam is obvious and with that I find that Gemstone Mine is one of the best lands in the deck for me. Same with the cycle lands that draw two cards with the frog out. Titania finishes the game off super fast once I have a nice board state; I debated Nissa in this slot but I kind of like Titania more due to the interaction with Gitrog and the fact that I can tutor for her. Safekeeper protects my frog. Noose Constrictor is a boss in this deck and there have been times when I've been able to draw my whole deck and buff him endlessly with him and the frog on the board.

Bog down in unconventional but with the frog out its essentially draw two they discard three. I really like having those and the Hymns which along with the Therapies have lead to instances where I'm able to completely destroy my opponents hand on my second turn i.e. T1: therapy; T2: VE (flashback therapy), Hymn (probably my favorite way to open the game).

Wasteland is also unconventional but I really like being able to recur it with life from the loam and once again Gitrog loves when lands die.

The next card I want to get my hands on is SDT but I'm not sure what to cut from the list to make room. If I ever get fetch lands I will try out DRS. Fatal Push looks busted so I guess I'll have to test him out but once again not sure what to cut.

I'd really like to fit white into the deck somehow for swords mainly but I'm not sure that's a good idea unless I get my hands on a better mana base.

What do ya'll think?

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I'm glad to see someone else trying GB. You've gone in a somewhat different direction from what I've done but I think I still have a few suggestions you can make use of.

The biggest thing is your manabase. 12 basics is quite simply too many. If you want to cast Hymn on curve you need closer to 19 black sources. Most notable is your lack of duals, for example with your current manabase you cannot curve Veteran Explorer into Hymn reliably (and if you do, you're losing a Gemstone Mine). I think a single Bayou is a requirement to play the archetype but if you want to get started without it you absolutely need an Overgrown Tomb and some fetchlands. With the fetches, again you can't play something like Hymn without Catacombs (if you want basic lands) but 8x green fetches should be where you start. Ash Barrens can function in place of one fetch but I would strongly recommend against playing more than one.

Next, if you're going to use a Loam strategy you need to be doing something a lot more broken than getting a Gitrog. I've been messing with a Dark Depths plan out of the SB in my BG decks lately but I'm not going to tell you to go buy those when you have so many more important things to get first. Instead, I would suggest dropping the Loam plan entirely. With or without Loam there's a few utility lands which are very powerful. They're expensive, but the archetype doesn't function without them. Those are Phyrexian Tower and Volrath's Stronghold. Which decks want which tends to vary, personally I own 2 Towers and 1 Stronghold and I've never felt like I'm short something, but sometimes a deck will want just one or the other. Lately I've been running just a single Tower backed by several copies of Crop Rotation. This results in a VERY strong start with Veteran Explorer without bogging down my manabase. The issue you'll run into though, is that while this accelerates to 5 which is great for Gitrog, you'll quickly run out of lands on the board so he's a poor 5 drop to accelerate into.

Your GSZ's strike me as being too weak. I don't think you have enough targets for them. For starters there's no Dryad Arbor, which isn't a must include interaction but really helps (and your manabase needs all the help it can get). But on top of that, all you have are a handful of creatures. If your Gitrog eats a StP what are you going to do, worse yet it gets trapped behind a Maze of Ith. With so few threats, it's trivial for the opponent to have answers for each of them. You need to diversify a bit more, and especially at the lower points of the curve. 5 is the magic number for T2 acceleration, which means casting a 5 drop from hand (Nissa is great here) or GSZ'ing for a 4 drop.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rock-fit-2/

That's my list, it's considerably higher budget than what you're starting from, but there's a few things in it that I think you can make use of.
#1 Tireless Tracker. This card is a must include in my opinion. I like running it as a 2 of. You're never going to GSZ for it, but naturally drawing it is very powerful.
#2 SDT. If you don't have these, Sylvan Library is an acceptable substitute. When I first got into the format I got Libraries first because I had (and still have) a suspicion that SDT might one day see a ban. Additionally, Library is a faster card, especially if you're weak on other sources of CA. It doesn't play as well with Deed though.
#3 Courser of Kruphix. It's cheap and it's a great combo with either Library or SDT. It's also a reasonable card on it's own, and it has some cool other combos such as with Stronghold/Arbor.
#4 Crop Rotation. It's a high risk card, it's absolutely devastating if your Crop Rotation eats a FoW so you always have to play around that outcome. However, it enables a strong land toolbox. It's a great way to reliably get the two towers going without running multiples of each, and it's also one of your best chances to win against something like S&T by using Karakas. I've been trying out a maze of Ith lately too, but the jury is still out on that. That said, get duals/fetches before getting other lands.
#5 Nissa, Vital Force. This card is just absurd. It's so good that I included it over Sigarda and dropped white. Best of all, it's inexpensive... it's not going to stay that way forever.

Edit:
PS. Don't play Wasteland. You're giving your opponents mana with Veteran Explorer, and if you add white like you're planning you'll also be giving them mana off of Path. Denying yourself mana, as a ramp deck while your opponent breaks even on their lands is not a recipe for success.

You should also play Oracle of Mul Daya or Azusa Lost but Seeking


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Originally Posted by Ganfar

I went 2-2.

Won aginst Bug Delver and Food Chsins

Lost aginst 4 color delver and infect. The meta seems alright for nicfit now.

I really like Dryd Arbor to get with Green Sun. Really help me with ramp and mana.

Nissa, Virtal Force is a house. Won a game aginst Bug delver because he didn't expectde a 5/5 haste.

I also got to return Deed twice with Nissa in the same game.

I like the deck but I want one more Bayou and remove a Marsh Flats. I feel I miss a fourth dualland sometimes. I got wastelanded a few times.

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You probably need to get used to fetching basics. Basics first, duals later.

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Originally Posted by Purple Blood

Hey guys...I've been messing around with Gitrog in a Nic Fit shells as of late. Was hoping to get some feedback on my build and figured this might be the best place to post it even if its not your "typical" Nic Fit deck. Here's the list:

...

As you can see I have the mana base of a peasant considering I don't have access to duals, fetches, or shocks. Honestly though it hasn't been much of an issue since I'm only running two colors and have Veteran Explorer.

...

The next card I want to get my hands on is SDT but I'm not sure what to cut from the list to make room. If I ever get fetch lands I will try out DRS. Fatal Push looks busted so I guess I'll have to test him out but once again not sure what to cut.

I'd really like to fit white into the deck somehow for swords mainly but I'm not sure that's a good idea unless I get my hands on a better mana base.

What do ya'll think?

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If you want to run SDT, I'm afraid you're going to have to run fetchlands. They're an important part of what makes SDT so good in this deck. Look at 3 cards, shuffle them away @0 cost, look at 3 new cards. That's one of the things that help this deck be as consistent as the blue decks.

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Originally Posted by Brael

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rock-fit-2/

That's my list, it's considerably higher budget than what you're starting from, but there's a few things in it that I think you can make use of.
#1 Tireless Tracker. This card is a must include in my opinion. I like running it as a 2 of. You're never going to GSZ for it, but naturally drawing it is very powerful.
#2 SDT. If you don't have these, Sylvan Library is an acceptable substitute. When I first got into the format I got Libraries first because I had (and still have) a suspicion that SDT might one day see a ban. Additionally, Library is a faster card, especially if you're weak on other sources of CA. It doesn't play as well with Deed though.
#3 Courser of Kruphix. It's cheap and it's a great combo with either Library or SDT. It's also a reasonable card on it's own, and it has some cool other combos such as with Stronghold/Arbor.
#4 Crop Rotation. It's a high risk card, it's absolutely devastating if your Crop Rotation eats a FoW so you always have to play around that outcome. However, it enables a strong land toolbox. It's a great way to reliably get the two towers going without running multiples of each, and it's also one of your best chances to win against something like S&T by using Karakas. I've been trying out a maze of Ith lately too, but the jury is still out on that. That said, get duals/fetches before getting other lands.
#5 Nissa, Vital Force. This card is just absurd. It's so good that I included it over Sigarda and dropped white. Best of all, it's inexpensive... it's not going to stay that way forever.

Edit:
PS. Don't play Wasteland. You're giving your opponents mana with Veteran Explorer, and if you add white like you're planning you'll also be giving them mana off of Path. Denying yourself mana, as a ramp deck while your opponent breaks even on their lands is not a recipe for success.

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Damn! Thanks for all the feedback. Much appreciated. I guess my next step will be adding in some more GSZ options. Probably look for some four drops like Meren. I have Coursers which I actually tested out in the deck briefly but took out for the moment. I could add one back and test more.

You think it's best to just play one Nissa?

I feel like I would have to rework a lot of the deck if I took out Loam. Tons of the cards I'm playing end up killing my own land. I'm really reliant on that or I run out of land pretty quickly. And it just interacts so nicely with Gitrog. Dredging back and flipping lands into my graveyard for more card drawing is pretty awesome.

Will try out crop rotation once I've built up my land base a bit more.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

You probably need to get used to fetching basics. Basics first, duals later.



If you want to run SDT, I'm afraid you're going to have to run fetchlands. They're an important part of what makes SDT so good in this deck. Look at 3 cards, shuffle them away @0 cost, look at 3 new cards. That's one of the things that help this deck be as consistent as the blue decks.

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That makes a ton of sense. Just sucks that BG fetches are so pricy. Dunno if I'm willing to invest that much right now. Do you think this deck is viable without SDT/fetches? Is there any budget work around?

I guess I could get Windswept Heath a playset for $40 is reasonable. Another option as suggested by Brael is Ash Barrens that would let me shuffle on demand and with loam I could shuffle repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by TTX

You should also play Oracle of Mul Daya or Azusa Lost but Seeking


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I feel like Courser is superior to those options.

If you're going all-in on The Gitrog Monster, you should probably play a Dakmor Salvage since it's a loop when combined with Constrictor and Gitrog.

I'd also consider a singleton Worm Harvest.

Can someone share a Nyx Fit list that has been mentioned in the last ~ten pages?