Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenpoe
In UR Delver, Personal Tutor actually makes sense with the red miracle, too-it'll just refill your hand!
I'm wondering if it'd be legitimate to drop ponder for Personal Tutor. You either search up 5 damage or draw 7..which is all you'd ever be looking for anyways haha.
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kich867
I'm wondering if it'd be legitimate to drop ponder for Personal Tutor. You either search up 5 damage or draw 7..which is all you'd ever be looking for anyways haha.
IDK, once you start playing cute combos like that, you open yourself to people playing Surgical Extraction on a random card to counter your tutor or something like that. If the whole tutor for Miracle thing catches on, people will just play Thought Scour or Predict...
I really don't like -CA aspect of it too. Any burn to the face is card disadvantage until they die, and adding more of that doesn't seem the way to go. Altough, I must admit, if tutor for the draw 7 resolves, it's just awesome.
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Does anyone has the feeling that all the new "reprints" of the old cards are something like a mediocre and first attempt to bypass/"cancel" the reserved list? They are by no means broken like their old counterparts but with the support cards that exist can have quite a similar effect on legacy. Wheel of fortune? Time Walk? FUCK YEAH! I was really wrong to call for a ban on time walk and now I would really like to see t in action.
P.s would it be much to ask for a "miraculous" black lotus??:rolleyes:
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MirrorMask
Does anyone has the feeling that all the new "reprints" of the old cards are something like a mediocre and first attempt to bypass/"cancel" the reserved list? They are by no means broken like their old counterparts but with the support cards that exist can have quite a similar effect on legacy. Wheel of fortune? Time Walk? FUCK YEAH! I was really wrong to call for a ban on time walk and now I would really like to see t in action.
P.s would it be much to ask for a "miraculous" black lotus??:rolleyes:
Who care about "bypassing" the reserved list with cards that are nowhere as good as the old ones? You could say Underground river is also an attempt to "bypass" the reserved list. Those cards are simply throwbacks to the old power cards, like Ancestral Vision and Wheel of fate or Lotus bloom.
That's probably the stupidest thing i've heard today.
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gheizen64
Who care about "bypassing" the reserved list with cards that are nowhere as good as the old ones? You could say Underground river is also an attempt to "bypass" the reserved list. Those cards are simply throwbacks to the old power cards, like Ancestral Vision and Wheel of fate or Lotus bloom.
That's probably the stupidest thing i've heard today.
You can't possibly think that they are going to give legacy the stuff vintage has. Its only normal. They haven't done anything for many years. It might be a first step. It seems like they are attempting something here. As I said they are NOT as strong as the old ones and no underground river doesn't even have the effect of a dual land and you don't even know what you are talking about. Underground river also was made countless years ago (did the reserve list exist back then? When ice age was type 2?) The attempt to recreate duals was with the shocklands which of course failed as far as legacy is concerned. What makes you SO certain that the new cards will NOT have a similar effect that CAN be used this time?
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MirrorMask
You can't possibly think that they are going to give legacy the stuff vintage has. Its only normal. They haven't done anything for many years. It might be a first step. It seems like they are attempting something here. As I said they are NOT as strong as the old ones and no underground river doesn't even have the effect of a dual land and you don't even know what you are talking about. Underground river also was made countless years ago (did the reserve list exist back then? When ice age was type 2?) The attempt to recreate duals was with the shocklands which of course failed as far as legacy is concerned. What makes you SO certain that the new cards will NOT have a similar effect that CAN be used this time?
What is this i can't even.
So let me clarify this. You're saying they're trying to "bypass" the reserved list, and the reasons you're saying this is because they've printed a 5UU conditional time walk and a 3RR conditional wheel? What's next? Jace ingenuity is a try to bypass the reserved list too? It has the same effect of ancestral after all.
The only thing i'd consider a try to "bypass" the reserved list is a functional reprint that isn't considered functional because it has some extremely minor difference that never matter (like a tribal type or a snow supertype). All the rest are just what they are, new cards that happen to have an effect that was already printed before because the game has seen what, 15k cards by now?
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
You haven't told me WHAT makes you think that they WON'T work at least decently enough. They are not as random as you think. The new wheel of fortune for example can easily work in a burn/ur delver deck or even in something different and it will rarely be bad. Wheel of fortune was never bad and the new one can even be cheaper. I used a decade back and was a powerhouse in my red sligh. The new one has almost the same effect to these kind of decks at least.
P.s You know they are afraid to cancel the list. Why do you demand them to do it all at once? You didn't get what exactly i meant. I said they seem to be trying to do something otherwise we wouldn't see so many similar cards at once. I may be wrong though.
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
@Mirrormask
You really think Reforge the Soul could work in U/R list???
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
probably yes but not as a playset
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Okay. This shit is actually bonkers. Goldfished a rough Storm list, and Lion's Eye Diamond is now 100% Black Lotus and Past in Flames now might as well be Yawgmoth's Will. Brace yourselves boys, the sky really is falling this time.
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MirrorMask
You haven't told me WHAT makes you think that they WON'T work at least decently enough. They are not as random as you think. The new wheel of fortune for example can easily work in a burn/ur delver deck or even in something different and it will rarely be bad. Wheel of fortune was never bad and the new one can even be cheaper. I used a decade back and was a powerhouse in my red sligh. The new one has almost the same effect to these kind of decks at least.
P.s You know they are afraid to cancel the list. Why do you demand them to do it all at once? You didn't get what exactly i meant. I said they seem to be trying to do something otherwise we wouldn't see so many similar cards at once. I may be wrong though.
Yup, I noticed this also. This is the closest to the original that I've seen so far. Their trying to create little brothers to the original reserved cards. Yawgmoth's Will > Past in Flames, Time Walk > Temporal Mastery, Wheel of Fortune > Reforge the Soul. I mean, they have to nerf the reprints in someway. Those are not in the restricted list in Vintage for nothing. In the case of past in flames, it has the same role of yawgmoths will in combo. In the case of the miracle cards, you can't strategically time the casting. But there are also times in vintage were you only need a top decked time walk to race your opponent, or a top decked wheel of fortune to to combo out. They did reprint the mox in mox opal, it has limited use unlike it's big brothers but its still a mox with built in restriction to 1 on the battlefield. In affinity or other artifact decks, its still a mox. Lion's Eye Diamond is still black lotus in the eyes of the combo player, I mean being a nerfed version of black lotus does not keep us from playing this in legacy decks. The key to these functional copies is that not all decks can benefit from them, unlike the original versions, which makes vintage decks 10-13 identical cards + others.
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Praise the lord!!! some guys with some logic in them! thank you guys i thought i was insane for a moment!:tongue:
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MirrorMask
Does anyone has the feeling that all the new "reprints" of the old cards are something like a mediocre and first attempt to bypass/"cancel" the reserved list? They are by no means broken like their old counterparts but with the support cards that exist can have quite a similar effect on legacy. Wheel of fortune? Time Walk? FUCK YEAH! I was really wrong to call for a ban on time walk and now I would really like to see t in action.
P.s would it be much to ask for a "miraculous" black lotus??:rolleyes:
Woah guys look what I just found!
Restore Balance
Ancestral Vision
Wheel of Fate
Lotus Bloom
Do people not know that these exist? How come they aren't being used in legacy?!
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MirrorMask
Praise the lord!!! some guys with some logic in them! thank you guys i thought i was insane for a moment!:tongue:
they already started with Time Spiral and keeps on improving. I mean Ancestral Visions is still the closest you can get to Ancestral Recall, unless there is already a miracle ancestral recall coming out.
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Malchar
While those cards are awesome, it prepares the opponent from the oncoming shitstorm it will create.
A topdecked (and casted) version that has an immediate effect will create more damage to the shitstorm.
Its like comparing Katrina vs. Irene hurricanes.
New Orleans wasn't 100% prepared when Katrina hit and it was literally shitstorm.
New York was so prepared with Irene that as if Irene didn't do much there.
Same idea goes with Suspended vs. Miracle. With suspend, you can actually have time to prepare for the worst whereas with miracle, the only thing you have left is to blame WotC.
Remember "George Bush doesn't care about black people"? Yes, kinda like that.
PS. I still don't think Miracle spells are that broken. They're just too good to be ignored not to be played
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Now I wait for Miracle-Geddon and something like:
U
Instant
You may put up to one card from your hand on top of your library.
You may draw up to one card.
And then Internet will explode.
It's interesting how this mechanic will survive in the sea of Stifle and S.Extraction.
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
There's nothing inherently busted about the Miracle mechanic. The interesting thing about Reforge is that it's raw cost is perfectly obtainable in a storm deck. I really think that, if it doesn't break the deck, this is going to push storm into tier 1. I think the biggest question is if you go black for more Rituals/Infernal Tutor/Tendrils, or if you go blue for Brainstorm/Ponder. Or both.
Meanwhile, if you can get away with paying only two mana for it after first dumping all your artifact mana/tops, well, that's going to be pretty insane.
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
(nameless one)
While those cards are awesome, it prepares the opponent from the oncoming shitstorm it will create.
A topdecked (and casted) version that has an immediate effect will create more damage to the shitstorm.
Its like comparing Katrina vs. Irene hurricanes.
New Orleans wasn't 100% prepared when Katrina hit and it was literally shitstorm.
New York was so prepared with Irene that as if Irene didn't do much there.
Same idea goes with Suspended vs. Miracle. With suspend, you can actually have time to prepare for the worst whereas with miracle, the only thing you have left is to blame WotC.
Remember "George Bush doesn't care about black people"? Yes, kinda like that.
yup, suspend gives away your intention pretty easily. now these miracle cards are the closest you can get to a top decked restricted card in vintage. imagine the opponent tinkered a blightsteel collosus, you having a 4/5 goyf and a 5/5 reliquary. opponent at 10 life. you chump block with goyf, then on your turn top decked a time walk and proceeded to kill your opponent. or you can also be on the other side top decking a time walk, tinker for blightsteel and cast time walk for GG.
you can't experience that kind of play in legacy/modern/standard right now. but now wizards is giving us a chance to experience that.
top decked temporal mastery(time walk) + show and tell(tinker) for blightsteel = GG
opponent at 5 life, empty board and tapped out due to sweeping the board. you have a goyf in hand which will be a 5/6, you top decked temporal mastery = GG.
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SHITSUNAMI]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bloodbrother
top decked temporal mastery(time walk) + show and tell(tinker) for blightsteel = GG.
That, or cheat a Yawgmoth's Bargain(Griselbrand) into play and win thereafter.
But i'm pretty sure DeckBuilders here are working on a CB/Walk Control deck or a R/x Reforge Storm deck while others crave to play their MiracleBurn.dec or VexingDelver.dec as soon as possible.
Yup, seems like the Maverick era will be gone soon. Not a bad thing imho. Time to shake things up.
