[Deck] Jund

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Originally Posted by pjetr0

Hi guys, Im playing Jund nearly 1 year and I must say I love this deck. But I have a serious issue with combo decks, namely TES. From my experience, this deck is quite unbeatable. They have brainstorms, that is fine, but they have also silence and orims chant what makes discard completely useless. These spells give them plenty of time to set up all they need. Do you have some advice or strategy how to fight them? I missed top 8 yesterday because of this (43 players, 4-2), one month before I lost in quarterfinals against this deck. I do not want to switch deck because of this matchup, but on the other hand, loosing against storm decks really sucks. Beside this, it is very common that at least 1 storm deck fit the top 8 every time in my meta. My deck list:

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Wasteland

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf

4 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire

4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Golgari Charm
2 Duress
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Choke

The deck performs pretty well, 2 basic swamps are excellent against meta full of UWR. Against fair decks, the deck is usually super good. Against unfair decks, everything depends on the type of combo you are fighting against (from my experience TES is the worst, too many goblins during 1st or 2nd turn).

Pjetr0

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You can only try Mindbreak Trap to aid Hymn and Thoughtseize. The matchup is indeed that bad and like discussed a few posts above, there is not much else you can do

The rise of Jund in 2013 was also one reason for me to storm around,together with my fellow lemnear


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

So, now that Spirit of the Labyrinth is a thing.. and Jund is facing some hard times.. anybody thought about going the Ajundi route?
With the new guy, not only we troll our worst enemies - EVERYTHING using blue color for at least screwing up 8 cards, and greatly making it easier versus the combo matchup - Elves, Storm (if we have enough time), SnT/Omni, the list goes on.

Using SotL instead of Sylvan Library? Thoughts?

4 Color Jund - Ajundi?

Creatures - 18
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth

Spells - 18
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach

Lands - 24
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows

Sideboard
3 Pyroblast
2 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Life from the Loam/Maelstrom Pulse

Any more ideas for usable white color hate (i included 1 Zealous Persecution on the sideboard)? Ideas? Bullying?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos

So, now that Spirit of the Labyrinth is a thing.. and Jund is facing some hard times.. anybody thought about going the Ajundi route?
With the new guy, not only we troll our worst enemies - EVERYTHING using blue color for at least screwing up 8 cards, and greatly making it easier versus the combo matchup - Elves, Storm (if we have enough time), SnT/Omni, the list goes on.

Using SotL instead of Sylvan Library? Thoughts?

4 Color Jund - Ajundi?

Creatures - 18
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth

Spells - 18
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach

Lands - 24
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows

Sideboard
3 Pyroblast
2 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Life from the Loam/Maelstrom Pulse

Any more ideas for usable white color hate (i included 1 Zealous Persecution on the sideboard)? Ideas? Bullying?

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I couldn't think of a way to make the manabase worse, but you did. *Slow Clap

If you want to play white hatebears, I would suggest to switch to DnT. But since you're a man now, you're playing Jund instead. You don't need no silly hate bears.

Sylvan is still a fucking amazing card, even with that little derdle possibly seeing play in a deck or two. If it's in their maindeck, meaning you're playing against Death and Taxes, cool. Punishing Fires is even more real. If someone sides it in to stop your 2 Sylvans, then they're bad and you should likely beat them anyway unless you have a stroke OR are sleeping through the match.

I agree the manabase is SUPER fucky. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth seems like an excellent addition that I'll be trying out.

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf

4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire

4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sylvan Library


This list, by and large, has almost perfect mana ratios with the Urborgs. You're 5% low on black mana by sight, but the program doesn't account for Urborg granting everything being a swamp, so it should even out. You're so heavy in black it's not even funny, so we might as well make the manabase the least awful we possibly can. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there will be times double Urborg will suck, but recall the new Legend rule and we have Deathrite, etc.

-Matt

I like your idea for fixing our mana wreck, but remembering jund in modern plays with white, and has great results, we just got notice of a White card that happens to annoy a lot of blue decks, by turning Brainstorm into a put 2 cards on the top of the library card. I think it's worth a chance. No? We improve the match up versus blue decks (and at least half of them uses the new boy in town, TNN) and have yet another weapon vs combo - which Jund sucks versus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos

I like your idea for fixing our mana wreck, but remembering jund in modern plays with white, and has great results, we just got notice of a White card that happens to annoy a lot of blue decks, by turning Brainstorm into a put 2 cards on the top of the library card. I think it's worth a chance. No? We improve the match up versus blue decks (and at least half of them uses the new boy in town, TNN) and have yet another weapon vs combo - which Jund sucks versus.

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I think that running Spirit as a 3 of is a worth a shot. The mana really just needs to be black based. What the Spirit can do for Jund is give us time against combo decks, and for the fair blue decks it's one more threat that they need to deal with, if they're killing her, they're letting Bob, Shaman, or Goyf live. I would try a manabase like this:

3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Scrublands
4 Grove
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland

This allows us to fetch each of our duals no real need for Savannah as we would only really be running three White cards maindeck. This is the same manabase I run currently just replacing a basic Forest and Swamp with the two Scrublands. The only problem with this is that it will make us more susceptible to Blood Moon decks, but it might just increase our game vs combo. This is definitely worth testing out. Also the possibility of running Zealous Persecution and Lingering Souls somewhere in the 75 could be a nice perk.

Congratz on your attempt to push the deck ... back into the deck development section

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos

I like your idea for fixing our mana wreck, but remembering jund in modern plays with white, and has great results, we just got notice of a White card that happens to annoy a lot of blue decks, by turning Brainstorm into a put 2 cards on the top of the library card. I think it's worth a chance. No? We improve the match up versus blue decks (and at least half of them uses the new boy in town, TNN) and have yet another weapon vs combo - which Jund sucks versus.

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Modern doesn't have Wasteland.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Modern doesn't have Wasteland.

-Matt

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^^^ This.

Stifle is kind of a thing in Legacy too.

LOL

let's just stick to dying horribly without trying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos

LOL

let's just stick to dying horribly without trying.

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Well, I'm not saying that. Please do test it and tell us what you think, but I'm predicting that it may not be the droids your looking for, at least across the entire metagame or a broad metagame, at say, an SCG. I'm not telling you the idea is crap, I'm saying with the Legacy format as it is, it may not be as useful as we think.

I mean, we could all be wrong and you could be right, so please, do test. I wasn't trying to come off as dismissive of your ideas.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Well, I'm not saying that. Please do test it and tell us what you think, but I'm predicting that it may not be the droids your looking for, at least across the entire metagame or a broad metagame, at say, an SCG. I'm not telling you the idea is crap, I'm saying with the Legacy format as it is, it may not be as useful as we think.

I mean, we could all be wrong and you could be right, so please, do test. I wasn't trying to come off as dismissive of your ideas.

-Matt

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I don't think you came off as dismissive of his idea. I think that it is rather exciting to finally get another legacy viable creature and I think the first reaction for many is to try and cram it into our pet decks. It also does seem to fill weak spot that Jund has which is combo, acting as a pseudo-Chains on legs with 3 power. In my experience with this deck, Chains has been one of my favorite tools to combat unfair strategies and to be able to maindeck a similar card is tempting. Though, the idea of splashing white in legacy Jund may ultimately prove to be stretching things too thin, it's worth a shot. I can definitely see why people would have their doubts.

From my experience the worst combo matchup is Sneak and Show. Spirit may shut off cantrips and Griselbrand, but the fourth color exposes the mana base to Blood Moon (commonly boarded in for this matchup). Furthermore, Sneak also boards in Pyroclasm which would easily kill Spirit. Thus, Spirit does not really improve the matchup but makes any matchup against decks running Wasteland and Blood Moon worse.

Spirit may help a lot against other combo match ups like High Tide, ANT, and Omnishow, but there are other cards that have a similar effect and do not weaken the mana base, like Chains and Thorn.

Why do you hamstring your manabase (which is already bad) by splashing a 4th colour for that spirit if you have access to chains of mephistoles which does almost the same?
Unlike RUG or other blue Deck we can't manipulate our topdecks (we only have 1-2 libraries) and fix our manabase.
There will be awkward moments where you will have srubland and badlands on board and a hand full of goyfs,libraries and bloodbraid elves in hand.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Punishing Maverick has already troubles getting double black for a turn 2 Hymn or doing so without locking you out from other plays later on. If you need a whooping 4 colors to have a shot at beating certain combo decks, something is fishy. I doubt it's manageable to play Punishing Fire anlongside Hymn and white Hatebears. Moreover, Spirit of the Labyrinth is pretty much the worst hatebear to disrupt combo. If you want to push your combo matchup, run Mindbreak Trap alongside Thoughtseize and Hymn in JUND or switch to Junk

Junk would love to have more players, but you have to play a little tighter to get those wins. Can't rely on Punishing Fires to carry you with that deck :cool:

Has anyone been playing the Chains in the side recently? Maybe I'm not playing against enough Combo to miss it, but I own two copies, so any thoughts here?

-Matt

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Junk would love to have more players, but you have to play a little tighter to get those wins. Can't rely on Punishing Fires to carry you with that deck :cool:

Has anyone been playing the Chains in the side recently? Maybe I'm not playing against enough Combo to miss it, but I own two copies, so any thoughts here?

-Matt

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The power of chains depends on the type of combo deck. It is excellent against show and tell and high tide, maybe 50:50 against elves (as long as it eliminates glimpse effect). The impact on TES and ANT combo is very low. They use brainstorm, ponder, preordain only during 1st-3rd turn to set up combo, usually. Then they win with or without ad nauseam. Chains card has no effect on ad nauseam. Therefor it is slow in this case, probably you should be able to cast spells with higher impact on play.

Pjetr0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Junk would love to have more players, but you have to play a little tighter to get those wins. Can't rely on Punishing Fires to carry you with that deck :cool:

Has anyone been playing the Chains in the side recently? Maybe I'm not playing against enough Combo to miss it, but I own two copies, so any thoughts here?

-Matt

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I always kept one or two Chains in my Jund sideboard since I sleeved the deck. Right now I have just once because I wanted to try Explosives, so I replaced the 2nd Chain with it.
They are extremely good and they can be used also in non-combo matchups like BUG and Enchantress.

Even if now that deck seems dead, it's funny to play Chains vs High Tide, because usually landing one of them forces a concession from the opponent.

Sometimes I even side a single Chain vs tempo decks to negate their cantrips when both decks are in topdeck mode, but that's debatable.

If you want to have a good combo matchup... don't play Jund. :smile:

Right now I have a combination of Duress, Pyroblast and Revokers on the board to help fight off combo. Sometimes I get cute and add Slaughter Games or Chains. But really, the best you can do is to get in early discard and just hope they don't have the nuts. :laugh:

Revoker seems nice,yesterday i also thought about putting it in my RUG sideboard for the next GPT Paris to fight Sneak Attack and LED Decks.

Slaughter Games looks cute.
My friend won a GPT Paris last week with Jund Nic Fit (which is kind of Junds big brother) and played Slaughter Games in the Sideboard.
Well he defeated Sneakshow in the semifinals by using it.
Just try it,seems good !



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -