[Deck] UWR Delver

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Originally Posted by ivanpei

For me the correct number is 3 cruises in this deck. I tried 4 which was great vs control but was overkill. I keep getting them early game in multiples which is not very good in terms of early game pressure.

On the 20th land, it's personal preference. I played with 19 lands and 3 probes before and really disliked how much more I was mulling. Felt like I mulled 20% more with that 1 less land.

On Cruise plus Grim and Rip. Ok I boarded in Grim vs Death and Taxes, Rug AND Esperblade. My experience was that if you can get a few activations from Grim you've already won. Most of the time Grim is a must kill and dies ASAP similar to bob. But if you've activated it a few times you've won. If it dies, it is a really cheap must kill threat.

I t4ed a big legacy GP Kuala Lumpur side event earlier this year with this deck. I ran 2 Grim maindeck with 1 in the side. It was my absolute MVP the whole day. I ran 2 RIPs in the side and boarded them in together with Grim plenty of times, it was fine. Opponents have counters and if either sticks you are in good shape. Don't forget that opponents have removal and counters. If they don't, you're in a good position too.

As for rip I do not bring it in as often anymore but would still do so vs bug. I would not board out the Cruises because both are devastating against them. I'll test that matchup more postboard and see how it goes. At worst if you have an in play RIP you can either wait for RIP to be destroyed or pitch Cruise to Force or Brainstorm.

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Hey!

Do you still play with 2 grim MD with TC ?

Could you post a list?

Nope no longer run the MD Grims since Cruise is just much better.

I used to run the regular list but cut 2 STP for 2 Grims in the MD. My Delvers don't flip as often but Delvers are super fragile anyway. Also back then there was a ton of Folk in the meta and Grims just eats fishes.

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Originally Posted by goblinsplayer

Also, it gets around counterbalance pretty well. I don't think miracles has a single 8 mana spell in their deck.

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That is very true. I will miss my md Grim Lavamancers but I think this will get URW delver right back to the top. RUG and BUG uses the graveyard so much that even if Treasure cruise still might be good in those decks (though in RUG I am not sure if it is playable) this could very well be the best deck for TC. Exciting times for us URW players :tongue:

Ivanpei,
Have you missed the 4th Ponder at all? I played last weekend with 2 Cruise, going to 3 STP and 3 Pierce and it felt good, but I really want that 3rd Cruise in there though... I felt very disadvantaged in matchups where my opponent had access to all 4 and the game could go long. I don't feel like going any lower on STP or Pierce and agree with you that cutting down to 19 land is not worth the risk.

--Warr

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Originally Posted by Warr

Ivanpei,
Have you missed the 4th Ponder at all? I played last weekend with 2 Cruise, going to 3 STP and 3 Pierce and it felt good, but I really want that 3rd Cruise in there though... I felt very disadvantaged in matchups where my opponent had access to all 4 and the game could go long. I don't feel like going any lower on STP or Pierce and agree with you that cutting down to 19 land is not worth the risk.

--Warr

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Cut the 4th ponder. It's the best choice if you're using 20 lands. Also, you're gonna use 20 lands + 4 BS + 3 Ponder + 3 TC, it's hard to get mana screw

Just 4-0'd the weekly legacy at our LGS. Played 4 cruises in the place of the 4 stifles I used to run. They were insane all day. My matches are as follows.

1-Doomsday. W 2-1
I start on the draw with 2 Pierce, delver, sfm, tnn, land and fetch. My opponent probes and therapies away my pierces. Didn't draw any counters and he finished me with a doomsday into tendrils. I side-in 4 mages and 3 rebs for 2 bolts, 3 stp, 1 jitte, 1 tnn/sfm. I won game 2 with delver and mages on doomsday and dark ritual. He wished for massacre which I fow. Game 3 my opponent mulled to 5 while I keep a slow hand full of soft counters. I don't remember much except that I got massacred and we draw-go until I get sfm and batterskull online and I got 2 cruises of to get 2 fows and a Pierce to seal it.

2-MUD W 2-1
I won games 1 and 3 off an early sfm and batterskull backed with wastelands and cruises into protection. My opponent was also light on mana both games. Game 2 I lost quickly to a turn 1 lodestone golem off tomb into monolith and mox diamond. I sided-in wear/tear, tnn, sofi and 4 mages for 2 bolts, 4 dazes, jitte.

3-Burn W 2-0
Game 1 was sketchy but I most likely won off sfm into batterskull with some protection on key burn spells and a key stp on my own delver to get a batterskull swing at 1 life. Game 2 sided-in 4 mages and wear/tear for 2 tnn, 3 bolts. Started with mage on pop and then some back and forth emptying my hand of protection. I wasted my land at one point to get a cruise of digging for fow. Finally got batterskull online with Pierce up for smash and fow on fireblast with my opponent lacking another mountain to hit me with the other fireblast he had in hand.

4-Sneak and Show W 2-0 (finally!)
I started with a 7 card hand with counters but no pressure. We went back and forth with me emptying my counters on his cantrips. I won on the back of sfm and batterskull with my opponent flooding out. Game 2 I side-in 4 mages, 1 tnn, 1 wear, 3 rebs for 7 removal, 1 jitte, sfm. I started with delver into mage on show and tell with 2 lands, cruise, Pierce and fow. I Pierce a cantrip and fow a pyroclasm. Got there with delver and mage with him having show and griselbrand in hand.

Got great hands all day and lucky breaks all day. Not sure if I just got lucky (coz it was may birthday a few days ago )or I finally got these match-ups figured-out, will probably test more in the coming weeks leading up to our November major tournament on the weekend of GP NJ. Cruise was insane when I got them and 4 is the way to go, definitely. 3 is modest and probably correct post-board but I'd rather maximize may chances on seeing them in the game by playing 4.

Haven't had the time to test against miracles or bug or Jund where my stifles were critical. Will test and tweak more as I go along but I'm liking where my list is right now. Inputs? Cheers!

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Originally Posted by bum_man

Just 4-0'd the weekly legacy at our LGS. Played 4 cruises in the place of the 4 stifles I used to run. They were insane all day. My matches are as follows.

1-Doomsday. W 2-1
2-MUD W 2-1
3-Burn W 2-0
4-Sneak and Show W 2-0 (finally!)

I'll try to give more details on my matches once I get some sleep. Cruise was insane when I got them and 4 is the way to go, definitely. Haven't had the time to test against miracles or bug or Jund where my stifles were critical. Will test and tweak more as I go along but I'm liking where my list is right now. Inputs? Cheers!

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What was your list?

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Originally Posted by magical-yata

What was your list?

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I played a modified stock list where the 20th land, 4th ponder, 4th Pierce, and 4th stp were cut to make room for 4 stifle, and now 4 treasure cruise. The sb were 4 mages, 3 rip, 3 red blasts, 2 grim, 1 tnn, 1 wear/tear, 1 sofi.

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Originally Posted by bum_man

Just 4-0'd the weekly legacy at our LGS. Played 4 cruises in the place of the 4 stifles I used to run. They were insane all day. My matches are as follows.

1-Doomsday. W 2-1
2-MUD W 2-1
3-Burn W 2-0
4-Sneak and Show W 2-0 (finally!)

I'll try to give more details on my matches once I get some sleep. Cruise was insane when I got them and 4 is the way to go, definitely. Haven't had the time to test against miracles or bug or Jund where my stifles were critical. Will test and tweak more as I go along but I'm liking where my list is right now. Inputs? Cheers!

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Congrats, nice finish! I agree, Treasure Cruise is totally insane in UWR! I would be interested to hear details on the Sneak Show match! :smile:

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Originally Posted by ivanpei

For me the correct number is 3 cruises in this deck. I tried 4 which was great vs control but was overkill. I keep getting them early game in multiples which is not very good in terms of early game pressure.

On the 20th land, it's personal preference. I played with 19 lands and 3 probes before and really disliked how much more I was mulling. Felt like I mulled 20% more with that 1 less land.

On Cruise plus Grim and Rip. Ok I boarded in Grim vs Death and Taxes, Rug AND Esperblade. My experience was that if you can get a few activations from Grim you've already won. Most of the time Grim is a must kill and dies ASAP similar to bob. But if you've activated it a few times you've won. If it dies, it is a really cheap must kill threat.

I t4ed a big legacy GP Kuala Lumpur side event earlier this year with this deck. I ran 2 Grim maindeck with 1 in the side. It was my absolute MVP the whole day. I ran 2 RIPs in the side and boarded them in together with Grim plenty of times, it was fine. Opponents have counters and if either sticks you are in good shape. Don't forget that opponents have removal and counters. If they don't, you're in a good position too.

As for rip I do not bring it in as often anymore but would still do so vs bug. I would not board out the Cruises because both are devastating against them. I'll test that matchup more postboard and see how it goes. At worst if you have an in play RIP you can either wait for RIP to be destroyed or pitch Cruise to Force or Brainstorm.

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What do you side out to keep Treasure Cruise and/or Grim and RIP all in?

Played this at the SCG this weekend. I cut the 4th Tundra for a fetch to help fuel Cruise. Was playing 3 Cruise, 3 Pierce, 3 Swords maindeck. Went 4-2. Losing to jund due to lack of lands and got steamrolled by excellent Elves nands and sketchy keeps.

I think that cutting the Tundra was incorrect, but you draw so many cards and have so much filtering that I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted by Benrobnu

Played this at the SCG this weekend. I cut the 4th Tundra for a fetch to help fuel Cruise. Was playing 3 Cruise, 3 Pierce, 3 Swords maindeck. Went 4-2. Losing to jund due to lack of lands and got steamrolled by excellent Elves nands and sketchy keeps.

I think that cutting the Tundra was incorrect, but you draw so many cards and have so much filtering that I'm not sure.

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My friend drafted up a list that ran a 3/3 split of Tundras and Volcs. I know the usual is 4/3. The lower land count is a little concerning in a more mid-range style deck (well, more mid-range than the other delver decks). I was wondering what everyone thought of this as well!

I have been considering playing this deck at GPNJ. While I don't have a ton of experience with it, I think it is great right now and I have it on MTGO so I can jam a ton of games in the next month. Right now it is between Painter/UR Delver/UWR Delver. Tough call :(

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Originally Posted by cab0747

My friend drafted up a list that ran a 3/3 split of Tundras and Volcs. I know the usual is 4/3. The lower land count is a little concerning in a more mid-range style deck (well, more mid-range than the other delver decks). I was wondering what everyone thought of this as well!

I have been considering playing this deck at GPNJ. While I don't have a ton of experience with it, I think it is great right now and I have it on MTGO so I can jam a ton of games in the next month. Right now it is between Painter/UR Delver/UWR Delver. Tough call :(

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I think I made risky/bad keeps any time I had mana issues. I'll probably be sticking with the 3/3/9 build for the GP and upcoming GPTs. In terms of position in the meta I think UWR is heavily favored against the UR decks we are seeing and less susceptible to GY hate then BUG. The miracles matchup is not good, which concerns me but I think a more dedicated sideboard you can be competitive.

Currently I am on the 3 pierce/3 StP/3 TC build also. In the recent events I've played I think that pierce is under performing. Does anyone have any thoughts about the 4th StP or maybe a 1 of Forked Bolt?

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Originally Posted by Benrobnu

Played this at the SCG this weekend. I cut the 4th Tundra for a fetch to help fuel Cruise. Was playing 3 Cruise, 3 Pierce, 3 Swords maindeck. Went 4-2. Losing to jund due to lack of lands and got steamrolled by excellent Elves nands and sketchy keeps.

I think that cutting the Tundra was incorrect, but you draw so many cards and have so much filtering that I'm not sure.

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I used to play 3 Tundra and 3 Volcanic and I didn't like how much more often I mull hands and/or get blown-out early due to heavy mana denial. The deck has a lot of cantrips so we have the chance to draw into lands but I don't really like the idea of using cantrips to find lands other than wastelands.

Not to mention this deck struggles to run on less than 3 lands, I don't want to be in a position where I am limited in the mid/late game by the number of real lands I have left in my deck. I'd rather try minimizing the chances of that happening by not being too greedy with my land count especially in the face of wasteland, stifle, ports, etc.

I 3-1'd our weekly legacy ending up 2nd. Lost lopsidedly to deathblade 2-0 (he won the event) then won 2-1 against sneak and show and won 2-0 respectively against UR painter and Canadian threshold with mongoose. Will try to add more details later on my matches. Deathblade was a terrible match-up. He got to cruise first so he was able to get to tnn and equipment first. He somehow was getting his cruises first even though he only played 3 and I was playing 4. I'm thinking of playing manriki-gusari or pithing needle next time for this match-up. Any thoughts?

Played a similar list to the one that just made finals in eternal weekend losing 2-0 to UR delver. Any thoughts on his list? I play the 3rd Pierce instead of the 20th land and I switched his numbers on cruise and ponder opting for 4 cruise and 3 ponder. The sb was close as well since the only cards different are +2 grim for - 1 Jace and - 1 needle, +1 mage for - 1 Canonist, and +1 rip for - 1 cage.

What do you guys think of electrickery or bonfire of the damned in our sideboard? When I play this deck against something like elves and ur delver, I want a sweeper effect when our 1-for-1 removal does not do the job. Also, bonfire has late-game implications but electrickery can be cast for one mana and is an instant. Thoughts?

Sudden Demise is an option if you're looking for a one-sided sweeper for those matchups.

I'm definitely pro-Electrickery due to the instant-speed aspect of it. Bonfire is a really interesting idea, especially if you can keep a Brainstorm in the tank to cast it at instant speed when you need to. At that point you're paying 4 (U plus 2R) to do 2 damage to everything, but the only things the Electrickery can't kill are flipped Delvers, Swiftspears, Serra Avengers, and a handful of Elves. I feel like Electrickery is still the better option. You could also run Pyrokinesis, but I'm not sure this deck can afford to exile red spells in the matchups where you'd want Pyrokinesis in the first place.

My testing group and I are all currently on UWR for Jersey and we've been throwing around a few ideas that I wanted to run by here:

- Cutting 2x Wastelands for a basic Plains and Island. Wasteland is too easy to play around with everyone running basics, the deck doesn't support a mana denial plan like RUG, and the deck needs more coloured lands. One person in the group is debating going down to 0 Wastelands, but I want to float the idea of maybe running 2x Mishra's Factory instead. Some of the group want to try Blood Moon in the board as well.

- Finding room for 1 or 2 Fire // Ice. It's an additional mana over Forked Bolt, in exchange for it being a tempo play/cantrip if you need it, castable at instant speed, and pitchable to Force of Will.

- Is it possible that Dig Through Time is better than Treasure Cruise for us? I feel like every time I'm Cruising, I'm hoping I draw something useful to the situation I'm in (either removal, counters, or a threat), and I'd rather go deeper and be way more likely to get it. By the time we Cruise the second blue mana is almost irrelevant, and you can hold it and SFM mana up at the same time. Maybe a 1/2 split?

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Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian

*Snip*

- Cutting 2x Wastelands for a basic Plains and Island. Wasteland is too easy to play around with everyone running basics, the deck doesn't support a mana denial plan like RUG, and the deck needs more coloured lands. One person in the group is debating going down to 0 Wastelands, but I want to float the idea of maybe running 2x Mishra's Factory instead. Some of the group want to try Blood Moon in the board as well.

- Finding room for 1 or 2 Fire // Ice. It's an additional mana over Forked Bolt, in exchange for it being a tempo play/cantrip if you need it, castable at instant speed, and pitchable to Force of Will.

- Is it possible that Dig Through Time is better than Treasure Cruise for us? I feel like every time I'm Cruising, I'm hoping I draw something useful to the situation I'm in (either removal, counters, or a threat), and I'd rather go deeper and be way more likely to get it. By the time we Cruise the second blue mana is almost irrelevant, and you can hold it and SFM mana up at the same time. Maybe a 1/2 split?

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I'm currently running one of my FOW side and playing 3 cruise 1 dig, additionally, we have no reason to only play 2 wastes, a 2 of wasteland is awful. If you want to cut lands for basics, either cut a tundra, or 2 fetches for your choice of basics. My debate is whether or not to cut grims from the board due to cruise being in, and any situation I bring in rest in peace cruise gets cut...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Allcoin

I'm currently running one of my FOW side and playing 3 cruise 1 dig, additionally, we have no reason to only play 2 wastes, a 2 of wasteland is awful. If you want to cut lands for basics, either cut a tundra, or 2 fetches for your choice of basics. My debate is whether or not to cut grims from the board due to cruise being in, and any situation I bring in rest in peace cruise gets cut...

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I'm probably going to end up cutting the Grims, as they instantly eat removal in any matchup they matter in and strain the graveyard a little bit too much, especially with 4 delve spells. Going to bring back the 3rd Meddling Mage and... maybe a Sulfur Elemental? I hate Death & Taxes so much...

I guess that's the question, whether it's worth running Wastelands at all if you won't hit them consistently, and if they won't destroy your opponent's lands anyways is it better for them to be basics/duals/Factories/something else. Wasteland gives you better early-game via mana denial, but Factory gives you better late-game by straining their removal and acting as backup equipment holders.

8 fetchlands
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Plains
3 Wasteland

With only 19 lands I think it's important to stay on 4 Ponder/3 Cruise. Someone above mentioned that Spell Pierce has been underperforming, and I think that may be a metagame call. If you have a lot of combo players they overperform, if your area is full of fair decks I can see replacing them with Forked Bolts.