Printable View
Well, that's just something you have to deal with.Quote:
I hate finding Plains with this deck. You all know Hulk Flash loves Massacre.
That's why I like Aven Mindcensor. In response to sacrificing Protean Hulk, you Flash Aven Mindcensor into play and they more than likely cannot combo off unless they Force/Daze the Aven, which hopefully they can't if you hit them well enough with discard.Quote:
And how much we need Dark Confidants to keep up with their tutoring power.
I agree, Aven Mindcensor would be fantastic in the deck. Seems like an inspired choice.
Don't you think you'd want more jittes in here? Maybe a third jitte over the second Unmask? I've always wanted to squeeze jitte in this deck as the advantage against aggro is undeniable.
Ehhh... 3 Jitte in a deck with 14 creatures and no cantrip to get rid of excess Jittes seemed a bit much maindeck for me, which is why I went with 1 SB (actually, I even run 2 MD 1 SB in Fish despite having 8 cantrip and a higher threat density). Unmask is meant more as additional protection vs Flash, whereas the Jitte (while still good vs Flash) is slow, whereas Unmask is free. It also gives the deck 10 discard effects, which is needed without Hypnotic Specter, methinks.
If you wanna cut 1 Unmask for 1 Jitte, the change doesn't seem too drastic. It shouldn't make a huge impact either way. I'm gonna stand behind the 2 Unmask 2 Jitte config, though.
I think it all boils down to metagame and playstyle. Didn't see the third Jitte in your board. On second thought that might be the best place for it...unless your meta is dominated by fish-style decks. Against fish, resolving that Jitte is crucial.
Unmask is certainly in the radar now because of Bill Stark. :laugh:
Yup but, in a Goblin Metagame, Red Death players ain't too afraid of running it. Ok, they pack pinpoint removal, so it helps...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird
@Unmask : I plan to bring Deadguy to my local shop on friday. Some Flash will be seen so I'll up the discard MD. (I'd like to make room to test the MindCensors though, but drop the li'l Hippies is heartbreaking =/ )Quote:
Originally Posted by eternaldarkness
For now, I pack a full set of Duresses, Hymns & Therapies (LD-light build, no Sinkhole) and it works fine (not great, just fine). Still, I wonder why Unmask >> Cabal Therapy.
Sure, Unmask doesn't need a previous Duress to hit Protean Hulk, and you can Duress + Unmask on turn 1. But aren't the card disadvantage and the bad topdeck Unmask provides a bad point against it ?
Moreover, with 14+ Critters, the Therapy's flashback could be worth the cost, and get rid of a painful Confidant.
Please feel free to light my bulb ^^
actually, running P.Negator wouldn't be smart. Red death can afford to play it because this deck also play generaly 7 creature removal (chain and bolt). This help a lot to keep P.Negator from getting wounded, and so to save our permanent.
Deadguy generaly have one creature removal MD : vindicate, and it cost 3, unlike bold and chain. Anothers creature removal is STP, but even with a 4 of it seems to be (at least for me) not enought in order to run P.Negator
without risk.
Moreover, P.Negator is more a metagame choise than others card. If you expect many combo, then go on. But, generaly legacy is full of aggro, random deck or others, that make the P.Negator a bad choice.
Another thing about Aven Mindcensor. It really seems great, and even if i think that the LD strategie is crucial in order to win with deadguy, i don't know what to cut in order to fill this card in...
Personnally i run this build :
Lands (21)
4 Wasteland
2 Bloodstain Mire
2 Windstep Foothill
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
6 Swamp
2 Plains
Creatures (15)
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Hypnotic Specter
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Mother Of Rune
Spells (25)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Vindicate
2 Umezawa Jitte
2 Cursed Scroll
Sideboard (15)
4 Engineered Plague
3 serenity
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sword To Plowshares
3 dystopia
maybe we could fill Aven Mindcensor MD and take out the two cursed scroll. But i'm still not conviced about this, cause it is an potential infinite incolor way to deal dommage. I guess i'll have to cut something else, but what ? What card is the weakest ? Personnaly i don't know, cause i really love my version (though, everyone love is own version).
This is my two cents.
Whether Cabal Therapy is better than Unmask in Deadguy depends on the player and build of deadguy. The problem with therapy is that it can sometimes just wiff, especially if your playing against a varied metagame. 14 Creatures isn't always enough to support Therapy as deadguy really doesn't want to be sacrificing its beaters for more disruption. You want to end the game quickly after the disruption and sacrificing creatures isn't the way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by lolosoon
Unmask, on the other hand, never wiffs unless they're holding an all land hand (unlikely). The card disadvantage is easily offset by your card advantage engines in the form of Confidant and Hymn (people always forget that this is card advantage in addition to disruption). In addition, Unmask costs zero mana most of the time and this will free up your first turn for other plays like Duress or Dark Ritual-->Specter/Sinkhole/Engineered Plague. The lifeloss with Confidant is not that big of an issue, IMO. If you find yourself losing because you keep turning over Unmasks, then simply lower the number mainboard.
It all depends on the build however, and I can see a more creature heavy version to support Therapy.
Cranial for Hulk, not Flash. The deck can win without even casting a flash. (Bodysnatcher and guide in hand, feeder in play, hulk in yard, cast snatcher and sacrifice it FTW)Quote:
Originally Posted by eternaldarkness
I hope Flash does get banned soon, then we won't need to consider sub-par cards like Cranial for that stupid deck.
But anyway, for discard heavier builds: I've tried Phyrexian Arena. My build normally wins by sticking a Bob or Arena after emptying both player's hands, getting Jitte(that thing wins games. fullstop.). It's good. For me, I'd run 4 each of Bob and Arena, but I may be wrong(Although the thing plays more like Sui than Deadguy, but Hulk Flash makes LD worthless)
Okay, I thought I'd toss out what Ive been working on lately. I know I haven't been around at all (track owns my soul), but Ive still been thinking of magic here and there.
Before I took my track-related-hiatus, Emidlin had been showing me quite a few decks that used mox diamond to devistating effect. I dismissed them, as I had little time to playtest. I picked up the idea of mox diamond again, though, and I must say, I am VERY impressed. In all acuality, you don't need to mess with the manabase too much (22 land is fine), and it even stabilizes it, allowing you to run unwasteable white sources.
My Initial List:
4 Hymn
4 Sinkhole (I know, I know, I just love playing resource denial even in this metagame)
4 duress
4 vindicate
4 Bob
3 Shade
3 Hippy (Iffy without first turn play...)
2 Grunt (yay, less thresh)
2 Serra Avenger (OMGWTFTEHBBQ)
2 Isomaru, Hound of Konda (Meh.)
3 Engineered Plague (or whatever, really)
4 MOX DIAMOND
4 Scrubland
4 wasteland
4 bloodstained mire
3 polluted delta
7 Swamp
SB:
4 Serum Powder
4 Leyline (games 2 and 3 bye VS flash seem like a good idea right now)
3 Dystopia
1 E. Plague
3 Extirpate (<= not 100% here)
Before blasting me for diamond, try it out. Just toss it in your build or whatever in place of rit and you'll get at least the feeling of how it works. Any tried, tested comments? Questions? Concerns?
I've tried diamond in deadguy and it had worked out really well; with you running more white creatures it should be pretty good. I would probably run jitte over e.plague main. Serra avenger especially likes that card. And I'd probably cut the isamarus and run one more serra avenger and something else (4th hippie maybe?).
Any reason you're not running Cursed Scroll?Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
Personnally, i'll cut E.Plague for jitte, cause Avenger just LOVE jitte.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
Diamon moxen seams to be like a metagame choice, in order to avoid wasteland or LD on Scrubland, so it sound great in this deck (moreover, Serra Avenger is a double white cost creature). And finally, with one less land (thing that you can afford without Diamon moxen, maybe even with), i'll go 2 Jitte and 2 Cursed scroll.
A few questions to Rsaunder's list:
-How'd you think your list would look like if/after Flash gets the axe? Would you go back to maindecking Smallpox or keeping Engineered Plague, if at all? Would you stay with the build more creature intensive?
-Why Isamaru? As has been pointed out, you don't have Jitte, so you don't really need so many creatures, and aren't we meant to disrupt before bringing threats?
-Serra Avenger? Hmm...I've always wanted an excuse to pick up a few of those in foil...I'll try em out!
1.) I don't know, that's a really rough listQuote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG
2.) No good reason, really. I just wanted to see if the deck could support white 1-drops. I'll probably also be adding 2 jittes for e. plagues and adding another threat, now that it's been suggested.
3.) Hells yes.
@TylerWily: I haven't been running scroll for a while. Especially now, its effect just isn't great enough in many matchups (see Hulk Flash) to be warrented.
@Holo: metagame against wasteland isn't much of a concern right now(although it's a benefit), this lets you run wasteland and lots of basics and still be able to play a far more significant white splash, as well as a more consistant although less explosive start.
yeah, now that your running double white cost card, you just need mana source other than land. And i don't see any of your white card to be print on a chrome moxen, so diamon moxen, here we go.
And, another thing for cursed : HF just HAVE to be ban (Flash i mean), so it won't be a problem anymore. and this card is really great in so many matchup, generally it is my removal spell allong with Jitte. Bt thought, i just love this card, and for me it is an auto-include, cause il help many of your matchup, and is always usefull.
Holo.
P.S : rsaunder "Holo" is my nick, not "Halo"!
Tomorrow's June 1st. I guess we'll see what happens to Flash then...
Also, @Rsaunder: Have you missed the Dark Rituals? Turn 1 Duress+Hymn was always nice...
Fingers crossed...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG
Also, I do miss the first turn brokenness. I think it's balanced out though, like Anit-American said a couple pages back by being a "slower, more consistant opening". It accelorates into 2cc turn 1 and 3cc turn 2 instead of 3cc turn 1 and 2cc turn 2 like with rit. The one thing I do miss is being able to rit out a first turn hippy; it makes me question if he belongs without rits.
I don't think running ritual with so many white creatures is wise, so the diamonds seem like the best choice for acceleration. Hippie should still be great without ritual since you have so much disruption. First turn hypnotic specter usually gets me 2 for 1'd anyway. I'd definitely cut isamaru though. Run another avenger and another shade or hypnotic. You will also not have any real outs to a turn one lackey, so I think the plagues actually might be necessary on second thought. Jitte needs to at least be in the board though. I'd also try something like orim's chant in the board for decks like belcher and tes.
Can anyone explain why B/W Confidant can go months and months without any sort of remotely decent showing at medium-sized tournaments and then somehow seemingly always manage to top 8 when there's 500+ people?
Seriously. I'm baffled by this.