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At this time, strix is the best card aluren has gotten since harpy was printed.
It wins the game the second you get it cast with harpy.
period.
Of course you can attack with a bunch 1/2 2/1 or 2/2 creatures in next few turns, but why do you want to do that instead of
winning right away?
(btw successful troll is successful)
Regarding the FoW loops, my Rock-style version used to win with Spike Feeder and didn't run FoW (it ran Pernicious Deed instead). That means I always had to pass a turn with no FoW backup - it never posed a problem to me. Aggro can't do anything, same for aggro-control; control has had its hand ripped off and could only cast a topdecked Humility (useless with the infinite +1/+1 counters) or some sort of board sweeper (being Pernicious Deed @ 4 the only conceivable nuisance, but unable to prevent me from getting another Aluren and bouncing all my creatures to my hand in response, just to drop it all later).
My approach with Parasitic Strix consist of 2 Living Wish and a 4-6 card toolbox in the sideboard, with Strix among them. That way I never draw it unless I'm going off, which is the only moment I want to see it.
Hi there.
For those of you running only one strix, how do you intuition for it? I'm guessing two Witness or other recursion in the pile?
What results has Worldly Tutor given others here at The Source? Not having a full play set of Intuitions yet, I am testing Worldly Tutor and Diabolic Intent and I'm torn between the two. Intent can dig out anything but Worldly Tutor is instant speed and only one mana.
Thanks
Edit: One more thing while I'm interrupting the debate;
Tinder Wall, IT IS AWESOME! It can accelerate out a turn two Aluren which is faster than either BoP or Wall of Roots. Wondering why nobody is playing it.
Intuition is amazing in general, as it is instant speed tutoring without card disadvantage, and in the control or combo matches can go for 3 x cabal therapy, which turns each useless dork into hand disruption. Don't leave home without it!
As to the vitriolic strix / selkie debate, I run strix (but then again use recruiters, so it is a no brainer). If in a traditional build, then I'd use 1 x strix, or, as Nonex says, the old school spike feeder. Selkie is in third position to my mind. The feeder is great in aggro matchups, and against control / combo still gives infinite life and infinitely large dudes to swing with next turn.
But I'd still play strix over either one. There are too many times that you don't want to give your opponents another turn (mostly bad moments involving brain freezes, grindstones, blue sun's zenith's ...).
Finally, tinder wall used to be played, and can be awsome. It can even kil goblin lackies (which virtually everyone will walk in to first time). But it is inconsistent - what if you need the mana to search for your combo first...?
You don't intuition for it. I never did. I always end up with the following Intu piles:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyped
- 3 Cabal Therapy
- 3 Aluren
- Loam Witness Volrath's (if I play it)
- 3 Harpy or 3 Raven.
- 3 fetchlands (very rare, I rarely screw due to the amazing amount of cantrips in the deck, sometimes used as a fake crucial tutor to waste opponent's counter.)
I don't think there are other relevant piles.
Could be worth. Hey, it's always a 1cc Instant tutor, and we all know how good was Mystical and how good is Enlightened. I'll test it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyped
Because we don't need to accelerate in a t2 combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyped
Can't pitch Tinder Wall to force, nor you can pitch Wordly Tutor to a force.
You can pitch Oracle, Harpy, Raven, Intuition, Impulse, Brainstorm, ManOWar, Strix and Selkie however.
I see, that does seem logical. As BoP is green do birds become unnecessary as well once the mana base is solid?
I don't play them. not many lists do.
I love BoP and usually feel that I can't lose if I play them T1. But then I play recruiters, which give the deck more of a pure combo oriented slant, rather than combo-control, so the mana boost is possibly more relevant.
I apologize if this has been mentioned before but I didn't see it when I searched. One other win con could be Wu Spy. I know some old vintage dragon decks ran him. Benefits are selective milling gets around emrakul, he can help you dig through your deck so he's not a dead draw prior to going off, and he's blue and pitches to FoW. Cons are you still have to pass, leaving emrakul on top is dangerous if they have sneak attack out, and if you hit yourself you could potentially hit 2 things you need. Personally I think Strix is the best wincon but its probably worth testing Wu.
This is my 1st post in this thread.I really like this deck and really want to play it, BUT don't have the money for Imperial Recruiter. Do you need them to play this deck or is there other list that don't run them?
I have 4 Recruiters and test both versions as extensively as I can. IMO, nowadays people worship Recruiter so much that you'd think the deck has never been viable without a playset, which is simply false. Personally, I distinguish between two creature packs for non-Recruiter versions:
The original one from Old Extended, which is slightly updated with newer editions and contains most or all of the following, depending on your approach to the deck:
Cavern Harpy
Raven Familiar
Man-o'-War
Spike Feeder
Eternal Witness
Wall of Roots
Wall of Blossoms
Tarmogoyf
Then there's a new one that won a tournament some months ago (I don't remember the pilot's name, sorry), where essentially all maindeck creatures are blue:
Cavern Harpy
Coiling Oracle
Raven Familiar
Selkie Hedge-Mage
Vendilion Clique
Parasitic Strix
Eternal Witness
The way I see it, the old pack is good for aggro metagames thanks to that bunch of walls and gets a better win condition in Spěke Feeder because it can be dropped as normal and killed in response to Swords to Plowshares, with Tarmogoyf (if you decide to run some) as another control element and an alternate win condition if necessary, not to mention that it can get +1/+1 counters from Spike Feeder to win Goyf wars. The problem matchups are fast combo, Merfolk, and anything with Counterbalance.
The blue pack also has a great anti-aggro element in the form of Selkie Hedge-Mage, and maximizes the synergy with Cavern Harpy to the point that you can run 4 without fear of having them sitting in your hand, because there's always something to bounce. You don't have to get a Harpy with tutors that often either because it's easier to simply draw one. You also get Vendilion Clique as another win condition, or at least something you don't mind getting countered because there can be 4. The problem is that a hardcast Parasitic Strix is rather pointless and doesn't have Spike Feeder's self-protection. In addition to the bad matchups, the Merfolk one is even worse.
I think you can also mix both packs as you wish, just proceed with caution on what enters and what leaves, and test until you feel comfortable with the deck. It accepts new tendencies as well, since there are lists that benefit from both Veteran Explorer and Diabolic Intent, for example.
The mana base is more or less the same with both packs, run 6-7 basics at least, 5-8 duals and plenty of fetchlands. The blue pack needs 4 Tropical Islands for Selkies to work, while the old pack can survive with 2 if necessary.
The spells vary somewhat. For example, the old pack likes to have 1-2 Chains of Vapor to start sacrificing lands and bouncing your creatures repeatedly while you go off, as well as being able to support either Brainstorm + FoW or Sensei's Divining Top + Pernicious Deed, according to your tastes. If you choose Deed, there will be things you won't need to worry about.
On the other hand, the blue pack (Selkie to be more precise) hates to sacrifice lands to Chain of Vapor, and makes the mana base pretty blue-heavy so maindeck Pernicious Deed is harder to support - and in addition, maximizing synergy with Cavern Harpy makes the deck tend to combo a little faster, since Harpy + Selkie are enough to not lose against most of the metagame, a slight increase in speed that doesn't mix totally well with a controllish card like Deed (it will always have a place in the sideboard, though).
Anyway, as you can see, there are plenty of options without Recruiters and it's a matter of creativity and knowledge of your metagame more than anything else. That means noncreature cards can be mixed at will, too.
@ rupus: The problem I see with Wu Spy is that decks with Emrakul often run more than one, so you'll eventually see two together. It also targets like all other creatures able to mill with Aluren out, so no advantages there. IMO the cons outweight the pros, but you should try it if you feel it's the way to go.
Blue can avoid any target hate (eg STP) via easy manipulation.
Step 1. play Harpy
Step 2. put Harpy CIP ability on stack
Step 3. play card threat XX (eg Raven)
4. they try to kill your raven in response
step 5. bounce harpy for life
step 6. replay harpy bounce raven.
7. STP fizzles.
Of course the correct order of the sequence is crucial for both versions, but I wasn't talking about that. I meant that if Aluren isn't in play, you can still cast Spike Feeder and have it attack or block normally, because in case of Swords to Plowshares you remove all its counters in response and just rests in the graveyard until Eternal Witness gets it back to go off. Parasitic Strix doesn't have that auto-kill option, and you must protect it with something like FoW if you don't want it exiled.
Oh of course. But you basically hide your strix with Brainstorm/fetch since you don't need it before going off
On the discussion of having strix vs not having strix. As much as I hate the unintentional mull-to-6 when you get a harpy or a strix on your starting 7 (harpy is good in recruiterless, however), I really, really think that strix is necessary. The small but significant improvement of adding a lifegain creature that does something pre-combo is offset by the fact that you will oftentimes not even dare to play it pre-combo (StP or removal + gy-hate). The fact that you will sometimes play it pre-combo is a liability and will lose you games. The other major concern is winning the game.
Going to time happens and drawing matches is bad. As soon as you pass you will have won, but the opponent gets to play and will steal draws from you because you didn't manage to kill him in time.Also, the opponent having propaganda/ensnaring bridge in play means you need to have outs to both enchantments and artifacts in the maindeck which results in the gaming taking forever as he bounces aluren on resolution of chain of vapor, stands in the way so you can't attack, and there's your draw right there.
You guys saw anything aluren-like in the spoiler?
All i saw was that *white* creature that puts in for 2W a 3/3 token in game.
Too bad that blue one is 3U. :( and neither one puts tokens with haste, even smaller ones, that would be cool.
And I tend to agree with gottfrid.
Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile are far more common that graveyard hate, especially maindeck. Besides, winning with Spike Feeder means that you: a) run something to generate infinite mana, and b) probably run Chain of Vapor as well. So what does that mean?
First of all, it means Propaganda effects are automatically useless. Second, there's your answer to Ensnaring Bridge. If we take into account that before losing summoning sickness, you have an army of infinite/infinite creatures and any needed answer in your hand, your opponent must get rid of all your Alurens, your army, and have answers to your answers, all at instant speed. So what is a Chain of Vapor copy going to do?
You shouldn't go to time unless you play against heavy control decks anyway. If your meta is filled with them, perhaps Aluren is not the best choice, not even with Strix.
I've seen nothing interesting in the spoiler so far, and I don't think that jumping into the Mental Misstep bandwagon is a good idea for this deck. Time will tell, however.
Mental Misstep bandwagon might make this deck an even better choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonex
In my build I have only brainstorm and post board therapy for 1cmc, so MM is useless against me.
Heavy control build vs Xantid Swarm post board could make this deck a viable tier2 choice
Just want to tell ya, played Aluren yesterday in Munich, went 3-2. lost against really bad draws/Mulligans, a 3-land-familiar and against one Missplay on my side. But i never missed the Strix, she would never been good.
Am i right, you want to play the Strix, because the option to play the Selkie precombo, wich can win games, can lose you a game, if you play it, when you dont need to play it? Or said in other way: You want to reduce the missplaysources in the deck, by cutting options. Then go and play Burn.Quote:
The small but significant improvement of adding a lifegain creature that does something pre-combo is offset by the fact that you will oftentimes not even dare to play it pre-combo (StP or removal + gy-hate). The fact that you will sometimes play it pre-combo is a liability and will lose you games. The other major concern is winning the game.