[Deck] Armageddon Stax

On Angel...
I never said that Angel wasn't synergistic or good - because it is (remember this deck came from an Angel Stax beginning). I said it was unecessary and I should have added 'at this point in development'. Skeggi is right, you can consider the Angel a lock piece in situations where you can negate your opponents attacks by gaining 4 life a turn. What I found, and it may differ from what you have seen, was that (1) most of the singleton creatures I was having a problem with in difficult-to-even match-ups were not affected enough by Angel if she made it into the mix (Tarmogoyf is typically a 5/6, Tombstalker is a 5/5, Dreadnought is a 12/12) without other support and (2) the match-ups/situations where Angel-lock was relevant were not significantly hurt without it, i.e. it was a tool which could be used to complete the job, but it wasn't necessarily the 'best tool for the job'. (Again, I'm not saying that you can't play Angel. I'm merely suggesting that those slots are not necessarily optimized.)

On Ajani...
I think Nihil said it better than I did, but to paraphrase - Ajani is clunky. If you need to use the second ability, Ajani won't last long anyways. If you don't need to use the second ability, Ajani probably isn't necessary. Your only hope of getting to the third ability is through the first ability and if Ajani is using the first ability, he's not using the second, so he's probably not necessary. Confusing, yes. Useful, maybe. I would again agree with Nihil that he is probably best served in a different (yet possibly similar) deck.

On Elspeth...
I'm not at all predicting Elspeth to be the piece that breaks Stax. I don't think you play Stax if you are looking for broken in Legacy. You play Stax because you like grinding out wins (or because you hate people in general :wink:). I have 2-4 'non-optimum' slots in my list that I like to play around with and Elspeth has proven interesting. I have found a number of times when he's useful, but that's not to see there aren't still times when I don't wish he was Crucible #5 or #6.

-FB...

I've been looking at Spirit of the Hearth lately. I like it, but perhaps seems a bit of a win-more card (by the time it's cast, you should have your opponent locked up).

If we really needed that ability, and for the most part we don't, why not just true believer instead. Its not like we ever target ourself anway. We also have a better faster finisher in Exalted Angel.

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Originally Posted by The Wes

If we really needed that ability, and for the most part we don't, why not just true believer instead. Its not like we ever target ourself anway. We also have a better faster finisher in Exalted Angel.

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Meh, just kicking around different creatures. I have about 2-4 slots that can be anything; Exalted Angel, Oblivion Ring, etc. I was just tinkering around with various creatures (Blinding Angel, Battlegrace Angel, Spirit of the Hearth) and spells to see what I liked.

battlegrace angle was absolutely rediculous in the few games I have played with her. 4 turn clock, life link. she does have a few down sides, not blocking as a 5-ass no lifelink while blocking, but she holds the air and allows factories to beat for more. only playing her as a 2spot in the deck, but was impressed by the times i did cast her.

Yeah, so far from my limited testing, Battlegrace has been the best new card. Still not sure if its good enough for a permanent slot, but as a 2 of its looking promising.

Yep, I've fallen in love with Battlegrace as well. I think it should be a staple in the deck as a 2 of.

The poster above said, it doesn't do anything versus a 5/6 Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker etc.

That's not true. It forces your opponent to trade with the Tombstalker. And it lets Goyf hit you from the ground each turn, and simply gains you back all that life, and also hits for 5 from the air.

In both cases, it's a better card than Exalted Angel.

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Originally Posted by Captain Hammer

That's not true. It forces your opponent to trade with the Tombstalker. And it lets Goyf hit you from the ground each turn, and simply gains you back all that life, and also hits for 5 from the air.

In both cases, it's a better card than Exalted Angel.

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Won't Battlegrace Angel often be a turn slower that Exalted Angel, thus negating its advantage in races?

You wouldn't be attacking if your opponent has a Tombstalker in the first place with a Exalted Angel.

Plus, Battlegrace is a 10 point life swing. Exalted is an 8 point life swing.

And lastly, if you wanted Exalted out a turn earlier than Battlegrace, you just spent both your third and fourth turn paying for it. That's one less spell you were able to play, which is pretty significant.

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Originally Posted by Captain Hammer

And lastly, if you wanted Exalted out a turn earlier than Battlegrace, you just spent both your third and fourth turn paying for it. That's one less spell you were able to play, which is pretty significant.

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But that also means that if you want to play your threat before using a land sweeper, that you would have to wait a full turn before doing so (turn 5 Armageddon w/ angel, turn 6 with Battlegrace).

Also, you can't block with Battlegrace the turn you play it and gain life.

ok so for a clear stement about the props and slops of battlegrace VS exalted

Props
Giving +1/+! and lifelink to your sole attackers (suicide mishra FTW!!!!)
5/5 when attacking herself (thus killing tombstalker)
gaining 5 life and taking 5 life in a single swing
when double on field double lifelink and +2/+2

slops

Slower than exalted
no morphing tricks
no lifelink when in defensive position


Personally I think the discussion whether or not to play the battlegrace is personal playstyle. You either like her or not, unless someone can come up with very good material that will blow either one of these angels away.

I'm currently testing a new version of ADHD Stax - one without angels (the one or the other) - it goes very smooth so far, but I've found a new Nemesis: Gaddock Teeg. He really ruins my deck. Oblivion Rings handle him, but it's not enough, I need more. Any suggestions? I'm considering:

• Afterlife
• Eightfold Maze (they often attack with Teeg)
• Just Fate (same thing, really)
• Terashi's Verdict

In this list I only like Afterlife...and that doesn't seem to be the best option either...any other suggestions are very welcome :) Or does this just prove I should run more creatures - a certain number of the two angels for example - and beat face instead of trying to get rid of nasty Teeg. My deck is pretty solid as it is now. So far I really only have a problem with that little twirp.

Verdict doesn't seem too bad. Wing Shards cc is prohibitive, but can be uber effective if played against a spell happy opponent.

If you haven't tried it already, Powder Keg is a resonable sub-in when Teeg hits your meta.

-FB...

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Originally Posted by Fred Bear

If you haven't tried it already, Powder Keg is a resonable sub-in when Teeg hits your meta.

-FB...

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Of course! I was using Engineered Explosives as an extra hoser, but it gets stopped by Teeg! Powder Keg is fantastic! I'm sure of it. Thanks FB, saved my life :wink:

This is what I'm rolling with:

6 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland

4 Mox Diamond
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Armageddon
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Battlegrace Angel

Sideboard:
Constant Flux; Oblivion Ring, Suppression Field, Rule of Law, Seal of Cleansing, Powder Keg, etc are in there at one time or another.

I've been pretty happy running this list, but feel that the Battlegrace slot isn't optimized (and I could actually get away with 24 land, upping my business spell liquid slot to 4-of). Thoughts?

@Arsenal: I heard Exalted Angel fits nicely into that slot.

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Originally Posted by rockout

@Arsenal: I heard Exalted Angel fits nicely into that slot.

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I'm rocking the new Battlegrace Angel in place of Exalted. Each has their pros/cons, but I really prefer Battlegrace if I'm going to be running any angel.

Arsenal, why did you opt to cut Wasteland rather than Mishra's Factory. Are nonbasics not that prevalent in your meta. The utility of Wasteland combined with the brokeness when combined with Crucible to me makes 4 Wasteland a no brainer.

My list is fairly similar to yours...

6 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory

4 Mox Diamond
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ghostly Prison

4 Armageddon
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Battlegrace Angel
3 Smokestack
2 Oblivion Ring

I've been perfectly happy with the Angel. The slot that I'm concerned with is the 2 Oblivion Ring. It's awesome having an all purpose answer to most anything. But I wondering if I would be better off playing something more synergic with the deck. Perhaps 2 Windborn Muse or a Cataclysm and that last Smokestack or something?

What're your thought on my build?