[Deck] Reanimator

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To be Honest, I don't blame my landcount that day.

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Hmm...it seems nevertheless that both games you lost, were due to manadeath...

I also think that 15 lands is too low. 16 lands seems the very minimum to me. As Di said, we always need at least 2 lands per games.
The one-land difference is not huge but that's maybe what made you lose those 2 games...

Anyway, I could also test Daze (as a 3-of) : they are awesome! I 've just could test against Survival bant and they really shine. I am really pleased with them. Anyway, Sur-Bant is a very favorable match up...
I'd like to add the 4th daze , but i don't know if I still have the free slot for it :rolleyes: But 3 is already good and gives to the deck this extra-protection i was looking for.

I think I ditched either a AoD or the 4th careful study for that.
3 seems more than enough.

I played 16 lands +4 petals before, and I have no problems hitting 2+ lands, most of the time I actually had problems with hitting a 50% score of mana source/non-mana cards. It also depends on my match at the moment, but against some matches, 1 land is enough, especially when you are on the play.

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Originally Posted by practical joke

I think I ditched either a AoD or the 4th careful study for that.
3 seems more than enough.

I played 16 lands +4 petals before, and I have no problems hitting 2+ lands, most of the time I actually had problems with hitting a 50% score of mana source/non-mana cards. It also depends on my match at the moment, but against some matches, 1 land is enough, especially when you are on the play.

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In many matchups, that is acceptable. A lot of decks either don't put enough pressure on you early or are fast but lack mana disruption, so either way you can get by. However, that isn't the case with decks like Tempo Thresh, Merfolk, etc, where the low land count will bite you in the ass. Those matchups already have the potential to be shaky, so giving them the ability to win simply through Stifle and Wasteland can be very costly. Those are the decks you'd really want to see the extra land in, because if you don't it just makes Daze and Spell Pierce stronger as well. Otherwise, it's almost an unnoticable difference. You might occasionally hit a small clump of land or draw more than wanted, but that is completely offset by giving you a much easier time in the tempo matches. Generally the deck can overcome drawing excessive lands because you combo so quickly, but losing matchups because you don't run enough and get them disrupted is unacceptable.

Despite the fact that you might blame the losses you had on mulligans and whatnot, that doesn't deny the fact that the land count had an impact. Had you run more land, you would've been more likely to draw them off mulligans, or opened more, etc. With a higher land count, the odds of you getting land screwed are far lower than odds of you either having an optimal amount or slightly excessive amount of lands. Regardless of the situation, I'd always take the latter.


As an aside, I'm rather surprised that last list you ran had Careful Study given you only ran 5 creatures. How exactly did Study work for you when you had such a low creature count? Once I lowered the creature count I swapped Study for Ponder because Study is a terrible draw spell without a creature and Ponder has been much better.

Careful Study also activates Ravenous Trap, which may not be a concern, yet. The good thing is that the trap can be played around if you know they board it.

I'm down to 2 Studies in my build and may end up dropping them. Like, Di said, without a creature, it's terrible. It's card disadvantage, and without a creature you end up dumping cards you may need to keep.

How many creatures should be run to use a playset of Careful Study to good effect? I'm thinking somewhere in the 10-14 range.

I ran careful studies as a 4-off at 7+ creatures. It's good enough from 7+
I play less now, for 2 reasons, it's still a discard outlet, it saves me from having a dead creature or unusable land cards I can ditch on a second way (brainstorm+ fetch being the other), after boarding against a lot of decks like ichorid and ANT, having a bounced iona a single turn to long in your hand, will mean you will lose.

So far I'll keep using a 3-off since 4 is too many, but grabbing a single one will never hurt :)

Ravenous trap isn't so bad, you can survive having your graveyard removed.
It'll be one creature most of the time...
you just have to start from scratch again or entomb something. There's better graveyard hate than that and that is more played, don't worry too much about that card.

@ careful study : I'm also running a list with a low amount of creatures (5 or 6) and i think more and more about dropping definitely the careful studies.
It seems less effective, would give me the extra slot to play the 4th Daze. The 2 other slots will be covered by a couple of Ponder.

Going down to less than 2 studies is (imo) useless : the chances are very very low that you get one study AND that you get a creature to discard in the same time...
Although I'm currently playing with 3 studies and i wonder if Ponder wouldn't be simply better.
The only negative point I see about dropping studies is that the deck will be again more reliant on Entomb...

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Originally Posted by Oxmo39

@ careful study : I'm also running a list with a low amount of creatures (5 or 6) and i think more and more about dropping definitely the careful studies.
It seems less effective, would give me the extra slot to play the 4th Daze. The 2 other slots will be covered by a couple of Ponder.

Going down to less than 2 studies is (imo) useless : the chances are very very low that you get one study AND that you get a creature to discard in the same time...
Although I'm currently playing with 3 studies and i wonder if Ponder wouldn't be simply better.
The only negative point I see about dropping studies is that the deck will be again more reliant on Entomb...

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That's why my build also runs Buried Alive, to take some pressure off Entomb. The deck can't purely rely on Entomb, and Careful Study is too inconsistent for me to work with and requires running a useless high creature count. Although it's a little expensive, Buried Alive has been great because it still functions as a triple Entomb, and lines you up to animate multiple times.

What do you think of Think Tank, and Boseiju?

Dear Wizards,

Please print:

Into the Grave - :b:
Instant

Search your library for a creature card and put that card into your graveyard. Then shuffle your library.

Entomb is already legal. What harm can it do? :laugh:

Until we get this hotness, Buried Alive and Intuition are our second best "search library, get dudes in the grave" cards. I may give the edge to Intuition in my build, at the moment. I like its versatility - being able to snag FoW, another reanimation spell, or get big guys in the grave. A 3 drop that isn't black is a bit of a liability in this deck. Though, if I'm casting intuition, plan A probably didn't work out.

Edit: Think Tank is a little slow for this deck. We want to be in a position to win by turn 3. Sure this can come out turn 2 with Petal or Ritual, but it won't be doing enough.

Boseiju is a card I've always liked (uncounterable Natural Orders win games), but here it will only really help Exhume and maybe Intuition/Buried Alive if you run them. And it doesn't produce black mana.

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Until we get this hotness, Buried Alive and Intuition are our second best "search library, get dudes in the grave" cards. I may give the edge to Intuition in my build, at the moment. I like its versatility - being able to snag FoW, another reanimation spell, or get big guys in the grave. A 3 drop that isn't black is a bit of a liability in this deck. Though, if I'm casting intuition, plan A probably didn't work out.

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If you run multiple copies of creatures, then Intuition would get the nod. I'm assuming this means your build is running upwards up 6-7 creatures at the very least, with 2-3 Iona, 2 shroud creatures, and then 2-3 general utility/anti-aggro creatures. If you don't, then Intuition is terrible as a bury spell, because it won't guarantee putting the creature you want in the graveyard. Intuition has to viewed as a bury spell first and a tutor second. It's awesome in getting disruption and animate spells, but unless you run a bigger creature suite to accommodate it, it's inferior to Buried Alive. But if you're at the point of running a higher creature count like that, you're probably just better off just running Careful Study and dumping creatures when you draw them.

Currently, I'm playing 6 guys. 2 Iona, 2 shroud, Sphinx and Akroma/Hellkite/Sphinx #2.

I'm playing at my weekly legacy tournament right now. Lost round 1 after mulling to four, then getting hymned and seized. Game 2 I got my Underground Seas extirpated.....awesome.


Edit: I ended up 2-2, drop. Not so hot. Lots of poor hands. Lost to Goblins with a topdecked Stp after Forcing his first.

intuition is awesome.
But it simply puts you at huge risks after sideboarding. What happens if they remove your 2 creatures?

Then again, you might also play show and tell, so getting 3 different creatures, the best one will possibly end up in your hand :)

As said before, intuition is a great mind-trick card, it's far favorable than buried alive. 3 creatures in your gy is too much,if you already play pimps, then that's not even a problem.

But both are quite slow. By turn 3, you should've slammed something on the table.

In the end both are quite slow, you might as well play glimpse of the unthinkable, mill yourself for a lot and find something in there for 1 mana less.

I've played with intuitions, but it didn't quite do it for me, it slowed my deck more than I wanted, the same will obviously go for buried alive as well and I can't pitch that to a FoW

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Originally Posted by Di

That's why my build also runs Buried Alive, to take some pressure off Entomb. The deck can't purely rely on Entomb, and Careful Study is too inconsistent for me to work with and requires running a useless high creature count. Although it's a little expensive, Buried Alive has been great because it still functions as a triple Entomb, and lines you up to animate multiple times.

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I understand your arguments. Buried Alive seems nice in builds playing a low amount of creatures and mystical tutors.
But i don't feel it to be necessary. If your entomb get countered or discarded, you have enough tools to find another one.

Like Practical said : countermagic are a nice addition for this deck. Now I also play Daze as an extra-protection for my key spells and i'm very happy with. I couldn't exchange Daze for Buried Alive.
Furthermore, after side, playing Buried Alive seems very risky...

If I finally decide to drop the studies, I will need other draw spell to replace it and to help digging the deck.
Reaching 3 mana is not always granted with this deck, 4 brainstorms are not enough, I want to had 2 or 3 Ponder.

If you drop your careful studies, change them with the following

- x careful study
+ 1 intuition
+ (x-1) ponder

now why the intuition?
It gives you a second spell to get your combo online. If you meet a chalice for 1, you are in for a whole lot of "draw-go". an intuition can break that on time. ( response, mystical to either bounce or intuition or show and tell.), since the chances are alot less you have a T1 discard. Ponder isn't very fast either, but at least digs through your deck quite nicely and can also you find you a creature to put in your hand for show and tell.

but those are just my thoughts on the change.

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Originally Posted by practical joke

If you drop your careful studies, change them with the following

- x careful study
+ 1 intuition
+ (x-1) ponder

now why the intuition?
It gives you a second spell to get your combo online. If you meet a chalice for 1, you are in for a whole lot of "draw-go". an intuition can break that on time. ( response, mystical to either bounce or intuition or show and tell.), since the chances are alot less you have a T1 discard. Ponder isn't very fast either, but at least digs through your deck quite nicely and can also you find you a creature to put in your hand for show and tell.

but those are just my thoughts on the change.

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Thanks for your thoughts :wink:

I just have 3 studies to drop. Actually I was planning to reinsert a singleton of Show & Tell I had previously removed... + 2 Ponder
Show & Tell can unlock those games when we are stuck on draw&go mode by annoying cards like Chalice or Countertop...
I'd rather include it over Intuition...

:eyebrow: Have you taken intuition back in your build ? in place of Echoing truth I suppose..?

If your looking for a dig spell, and your including Ponder, what about Impulse?
Or is the 2 Mana too expensive?

No, I haven't.

I still keep my 3 careful study as a much bigger discard outlet and use it to replace dead cards.
It only happened a very few times that I had no use for my study, if I didn't I happily pitched it to a FoW.
Ponder is a very good card to replace study, but it will set your average turn going off a turn slower. At that point every counterspell thrown at your entomb will be one you'll have to fight very hard for, where in most cases they do allow a careful study to happen.

I'm also doubting and will be trying to find a new answer to something like that. But I do demand a new discard outlet.
If I would play ponder I will also know that I will be 1 turn slower and I will have time to be able to play intuition once in a while for it's full use.

Atm I play 1 show and tell mainboard and a second one sideboard ( against discard decks so the one they have me discarded can be refound)
and I play a single echoing truth mainboard. ( solution for chalices/moat/humility/ichorid and some ppl that seems to grab 3+ goyfs when I play an empyrial archangel)

I also only play 3 mystical tutors atm, I can't up that count unless I remove more careful studies. which I wasn't planning to do so.

I won't say that with only 5 creatures 3studies are very good, but due to the lack of serious discard outlets ( since we don't play putrid imp) I will keep playing that.
Another option is to indeed play that imp as discard outlet, but he doesn't replace dead cards like a careful study can, but an imp is much less of a dead topdeck than careful study is.

I might have some time tomorrow to playtest the subtle change for my deck with intuition +2 ponder vs 3 careful studies against 6 diff. decks
( the rock,DDANT,aggro-loam, counterbalance, mono-red goblins and merfolk.)

and so the story continues.

@ arebennian: if you play impulse you might as well play some 2mana draw/discard card like that 100bucks one from 3kingdoms or even lim-dul's vault (less good tutor, but it works.)
But impulse is like intuition quite slow, since on turn 2 you shouldn't be fixing your combo together again unless you are on the control mode. The best is to have 1 mana spells to fix your combo.I think ponder can do that much better than impulse. ( get 3 good cards, or 1 or 2 then fetch, or remove 3 crapcards from top)

I've been happily running Buried Alive since I first put a list together. Being able to go Dark Ritual Buried Alive turn one or even turn two has been incredibly good for me. Like Di said it may take you a turn but it's triple Entomb so i've chosen the creatures I wanted and it sets up multiple animates faster than anything else. I've found in several match up's animating once is not enough to win the game but animating twice is almost always enough to win.

List Konsultant?

Hey guys, I came across this thread on google and have found you guys very knowledgeable and helpful. Thanks!

I wanted to post my deck list into this thread, but it's not exactly refined I sent it to the developmental section. I'd love y'alls help on it though.