[Deck] Aggro Loam

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Originally Posted by Madmankevinx

So the consensus is that we drop the 3 Dark Confidant from Jeff's original list to make room for zenith #2 and 2x Tarmogoyf?

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I agree that it depends on the meta. Goyfs are great when you expect a field full of non-UW fair decks and bob is spectacular otherwise. Me, I've just started testing x3 young pyromancer + volrath's stronghold in Hoogland's old bob list (replace bob w/ pyromancer) and it's ... very, very powerful once you get loam and/or pun fire going. Will probably keep going with this =).

The list:
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Savannah
2 Forgotten Cave
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
2 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Devastating Dreams
3 Life from the Loam
4 Burning Wish
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Perish
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Dreadbore
SB: 1 Chainer's Edict
SB: 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Devastating Dreams
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Reverent Silence
SB: 1 Slaughter Games

Reverent Silence stays in sb because of my UW-dominated local meta ... it + shattering spree are all-star wish targets ... also put morningtide in sb one friday tournament due to 2 reanimator + dredge decks being there and it was an all-star as well

Young ordinance pyromancer (and bob) are both so bad with devastating dreams lol

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Young ordinance pyromancer (and bob) are both so bad with devastating dreams lol

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Have you gotten around to testing Pyromancer? It seems like it could be very good in this deck, although it does incentivize you to play fewer DDs. It turns every Loam into draw 3 + make a dude. It gums up the board like Goyf, can close fast, and produces value like Bob.

While I think it could be interesting, this decks spells (chalice versions at least) cost at least two mana. So at least not until turn 4 can this deck really make more than one dude per turn. And why gum up the board when we can wrathageddon it? I do see the synergy and think it seems fun, and I'm willing to test, but overall it just seems underwhelming in a deck that lacks cheap spells and free spells.

Edit: I do like that he doesn't rely on the graveyard like goyf. Good knows RIP rapes 4 color hard enough

Hi everyone, it's my first time posting on here but I have been following this thread for quite some time.

So I have been play testing a list very similar to Jeff's with a burning wish SB and 2 GSZ main and I absolutely love it. I was curious if anyone has tried using Qasali pridemage in the sideboard? I feel that it would make great use of the second GSZ giving us another way to deal with annoying artifacts and enchantments while not relying so much on burning wish. In play testing it's worked really well for me. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

@Wozman: I have thought about Pridemage and Ooze as a couple of great flexible options to have as GSZ targets, but Between Abrupt Decay and Wish I havent really needed it too much.

I went 2-2 last night due to some bad beats

Round 1 4 Color Thresh

I feel like this shouldnt be an overly difficult MU, but G1 I mull to 4. Yay! Apparently 27 lands is not enough... Game 2 I have a great start, but I run my Loam into Daze and it gets eaten by DRS. He said he boarded all but 1 daze out because of how terrible they are vs me, but apparently sometimes you get there :/

Round 2 Jund Zombardment

Game 1 I Get an early Chalice for 1 and Stop his threats and then waste him out of the game. Game 2 He gets a T2 Lol troll, discard anger discard basking rootwalla attack and aggros me out. Troll is a somewhat difficult to deal with threat. Game 3 He opens with a Black Leyline. I play a chalice for 1, and Punishing Fire his Lol Troll when he taps out hoping he didnt have enough dudes to make it an X/3 and he didnt. Eventually I get KOTR and Crusher out and get there.

Round 3 Junk

Game 1 I have a double Mox Diamond hand into a T1 KOTR. He Wastes my Wasteland and KOTR just hits him for 5 for four turns. Game 2 I have another double Mox Diamond hand but Opt to play a chalice instead of Running a Countryside crusher out there. He gets a T2 Hymn me (my last 2 cards being Devastating Dreams and Crusher) and T3 KOTR and I dont find an answer. Game 3 I get loam engine going and just annihilate him with PFires and at one point he attacks with a Scooze as a 2/2 and my Nantuko Monastery eats it.

Round 4 the nightmare MU of Mono Red Sneak Attack. Not much to see here. I didnt find a Teeg and I got raped by Emrakul. Game 2 He got a blood moon, but with Burning Wish for Hullbreach it is pretty easy to deal with a Moon. But unfortunately Emrakul Eats my board again

@ mega -- Thanks for your response. What is the current list that you have been playing at your LGS with?

I play a modified 4 color loam list:


34 Spells

4 KOTR
4 Burning Wish
3 Life from the Loam
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Devastating Dreams
3 Punishing Fire
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Countryside Crusher
1 Daybreak Ranger
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
4 Mox Diamond

27 Lands

4 Wooded Foothills
1 Plateau
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Savannah
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Maze of Ith
1 Nantuko Monastery
4 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Forgotten Cave
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas

61 Cards

SB:
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Slaughtergames
1 Dreadbore
1 Hull Breach
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Duress
1 Perish
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Life From the Loam
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Massacre
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Maelstrom Pulse



As you can see it is very close to Hooglands list. I play Hull Breach over Shattering Spree because of the infinite Blood Moons/RIP in my local meta (but also alot of BSkulls) so it is easy to cast under a blood moon, and is a way to take out RIP, as well as taking out Skull or other random enchantments. I play the 4th Decay in the board for the same reasons. I play Countryside Crushers because I dont Own Goyfs (but I will borrow them for SCG ATL over crushers, only guy I know that would let me borrow them has foils and that makes me uncomfortable week to week), and Day Break Ranger has actually proven to be quite a house. Actually debating keeping him in for SCG ATL. I used to feel a bit safer playing a 3rd Grove of the Burnwillows, but I dropped one this past week and I didn't find myself missing it. Actually may cut the 4th Wasteland. Not sure what for, but if I think of something I would like to try out Waste may be cut. Duress over Thoughtseize is also another fact that I just dont own TS. Massacre has been AMAZING. Probably one of my most wished for cards at least locally. Card is just such an awesome blow out. Heres to hoping there are no RIP at SCG ATL. That is really the one card I despise playing against. Blood Moon I can deal with. RIP... God I hate it.

Has anyone tried Volrath's Stronghold? I find that occasionally I dredge too many threats away and get into long grindy matches with my Nantuko Monastery whilst wishing I could get a KotR back to just finish the game out.

Tyrio posted this a few pages back:

"I run a Volrath's in place of the basic forest in Hoogland's list. He said it was win-more in already good match-ups but I've found it to be pretty invaluable for closing out games. If you dredge two of your Knights away and another gets killed/countered/exiled, how are you supposed to close out the game? Punishing them to death doesn't seem particularly viable and dredging Loam for cycle lands can easily just dredge away your last Knight and GSZ. I think making the manabase slightly worse (it's already terrible yolo all-in!) for some insurance is fine. "

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Tyrio posted this a few pages back:

"I run a Volrath's in place of the basic forest in Hoogland's list. He said it was win-more in already good match-ups but I've found it to be pretty invaluable for closing out games. If you dredge two of your Knights away and another gets killed/countered/exiled, how are you supposed to close out the game? Punishing them to death doesn't seem particularly viable and dredging Loam for cycle lands can easily just dredge away your last Knight and GSZ. I think making the manabase slightly worse (it's already terrible yolo all-in!) for some insurance is fine. "

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the old Extended Assault Loam decks with Burning Wish ran Nostalgic Dreams. It may or may not be good, but it's certainly something to consider once you've gassed up on lands (via loam) and convert them all into win cons that have been dredged away.

Doesnt seem like the worst thing in the world, but we already run Devastating Dreams which is already taxing on our hand. Now if only there were a regrowth with flashback... But honestly Ive never had a huge problem with bringing the Nantuko beats lately. I used to never use it, but I just wasnt being aggressive enough. 4 per turn (even if your opponent is at like 24 from Grove) isnt bad. You could always try out Something like Lavaclaw reaches or Raging Ravine.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Doesnt seem like the worst thing in the world, but we already run Devastating Dreams which is already taxing on our hand. Now if only there were a regrowth with flashback... But honestly Ive never had a huge problem with bringing the Nantuko beats lately. I used to never use it, but I just wasnt being aggressive enough. 4 per turn (even if your opponent is at like 24 from Grove) isnt bad. You could always try out Something like Lavaclaw reaches or Raging Ravine.

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The Ext build also maxed out on DDreams (3 main 1 boarded). It's not impossible to play both, and Nostalgic Dreams eats up so little space to let you basically dredge w/o any sort of worry that you'll run out of win cons.

Here's the current list I am testing.

Creatures: (8)
2 Dark Confidant
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze

Spells: (26)
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Devastating Dreams
1 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
2 Sylvan Library




Lands: (26)
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
2 Forgotten Cave
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

SB: (15)
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Dreadbore
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reverent Scilence
1 Hull breach
1 Slaughter Games
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thoughtseize


After play testing this deck for a little bit I noticed I am never grabbing perish from my SB. Is most of the cases where I felt I'd use perish (elves), I opted to grab DD instead. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I also decided to not use Goyf because of how common it is for me to run into RIP. Confident has been working great for me so far.

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Originally Posted by Wozmaz90

Here's the current list I am testing.

Creatures: (8)
2 Dark Confidant
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze

Spells: (26)
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Devastating Dreams
1 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
2 Sylvan Library




Lands: (26)
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
2 Forgotten Cave
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

SB: (15)
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Dreadbore
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reverent Scilence
1 Hull breach
1 Slaughter Games
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thoughtseize


After play testing this deck for a little bit I noticed I am never grabbing perish from my SB. Is most of the cases where I felt I'd use perish (elves), I opted to grab DD instead. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I also decided to not use Goyf because of how common it is for me to run into RIP. Confident has been working great for me so far.

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Interesting changes. Why no Plateau? I personally am not a huge fan, but it is a necessary evil unfortunately for me. I like the Scooze MB, though I feel like if I ran Scooze I would want to run a second GSZ. As for perish, I do not wish for it very often either, but it helps vs Maverick decks and Elves and even BUG it isnt the worst. Mainly maverick though because it is very difficult to kill an opposing KOTR protected by Mom. Also having a pridemage in the board makes me think you may want the second GSZ

I'd love to get into a loam deck. Since the printing of young pyromancer, I wanted to abuse his powers. Repeating Loam and Punishing fire seemed like the way to do it. However, I feel Loam is so weak to combo. Why do so few people pack a set of therapies? I'd has great synergy with most of the deck (dredge into flashback, just sac a token).

The other thing is that i'd like to abuse the tokens even more. Perhaps a singleton vault of the archangel or a singleton gavony township? You'd have to add white, but you'll wreck REAL quickly. Tips, comments, ideas?

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Originally Posted by Hencules

I'd love to get into a loam deck. Since the printing of young pyromancer, I wanted to abuse his powers. Repeating Loam and Punishing fire seemed like the way to do it. However, I feel Loam is so weak to combo. Why do so few people pack a set of therapies? I'd has great synergy with most of the deck (dredge into flashback, just sac a token).

The other thing is that i'd like to abuse the tokens even more. Perhaps a singleton vault of the archangel or a singleton gavony township? You'd have to add white, but you'll wreck REAL quickly. Tips, comments, ideas?

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Well the white splash version generally runs Chalice of the Void to help out vs Combo. Which also makes Therapy kind of bad. But it would allow for a gavony splash. My big thing with Pyromancer is that all of the spells we want to cast are 2 or more mana, and that he is such a nonbo with Devastating Dreams.

I agree. If Devastating Dreams weren't locked into the deck, I think Young Pyromancer would fit perfectly. Unfortunately...

Yeah like making 2 1/1's per turn at max (assuming pyromancer lives considering we have no way to protect him) just seems underwhelming.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Interesting changes. Why no Plateau? I personally am not a huge fan, but it is a necessary evil unfortunately for me. I like the Scooze MB, though I feel like if I ran Scooze I would want to run a second GSZ. As for perish, I do not wish for it very often either, but it helps vs Maverick decks and Elves and even BUG it isnt the worst. Mainly maverick though because it is very difficult to kill an opposing KOTR protected by Mom. Also having a pridemage in the board makes me think you may want the second GSZ

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Good point on perish being good for maverick. I guess my initial thought is to always go for massacare, but it's true... that leaves me vulnerable to KOTR still. As for the second GSZ. I just have been having difficulty finding room for it. Same with plateau. Got any suggestions on what land you'd remove for plateau? Maybe remove the bog? and SB it instead?

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Originally Posted by Wozmaz90

Good point on perish being good for maverick. I guess my initial thought is to always go for massacare, but it's true... that leaves me vulnerable to KOTR still. As for the second GSZ. I just have been having difficulty finding room for it. Same with plateau. Got any suggestions on what land you'd remove for plateau? Maybe remove the bog? and SB it instead?

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Sorry. I forgot to actualy press the submit reply button earlier... Massacre is still a decent option as it kills off MOM protecting the Knight from your Abrupt Decay. I see that you play 60 cards. I play 61 so that would be my second GSZ but I just like playing 61 card decks. Bob would be another possible cut, but if you are in a grindy meta I could see keeping them. As for Plateau, I also play one more land than you so that is where my Plateau goes. Yeah either adding a 61st card to be GSZ, or cutting both Bobs than adding GSZ + Green Threat (Daybreak Ranger :cool: ) or something is a possibility.

Went 2-2 (really 1-2 Thanks Bye!) but actually felt like a good night for practice

Dredge in round one was a beating. Game 1 I get smashed in. Game 2 I had a double Mox Diamond hand with Bojuka Bog and wasteland and loam. That was a sick one. Game 3 I mull to 6 and fin Mox Diamond, Bog, Thicket, 2x Chalice, Library. Meh Awkward but I keep. I play Mox Diamond go hoping to get him with Bog, but he plays a Natures Claim on it :( and I lose to him grinding me with Putrid Imp and never really do too much. That was a frustrating game.

RIP Miracles with Blood Moon!!!!! Yay! Game 1 I Decay his first RIP. He plays a T4 Helm, then rips a RIP off of the top to kill me on T5 :( Game 2 goes long and grindy, but in the end after he entreats me for 4 angels and I deal with them and blood moon a few times, he gets there with another Entreat I believe after we grind for a long time.

Bye! I play EDH because I suck at magic! I found out that Arcum Dagson is a very ridonkulous general. Borby Enraged wasnt ready.

Round 4 we end up playing for the lulz (Alphastryk) against RIP Miracles featuring more blood moons!

Game 1 goes way long. I library myself down to 1 life, but His only V Clique is dead and I have Slaughter Games'd his Entreats. He Helms me for 7 (No RIP out) and gets a KOTR but I decay it. Throughout this game I have used all 4 of my wishes (HullBreach destroying Blood Moon, Maelstrom Pulse Destroying RIP, Slaughtergames naming Entreat, then finally a Dreadbore targeting his final Jace which gets forced. Eventually after PFiring him a bunch earlier I EOT a Dryad Arbor with him at one and get there. Game 2 he gets an early RIP and Helms me. Game 3 he gets Blood Moon Down with Meddling Mage naming Decay, but luckily my hand is 2x Countryside Crusher and 4x spells I will never cast. I end up Crushing Countrysides. Man I love that dude.

Overall, like Jeff said, Miracles is an incredibly skill intensive MU. I feel it is winnable, but very difficult. I will definitely be playing Reverent Silence next week. I continue to love Hull Breach in the board in my Meta full of Blood Moons. Was going to test Goyfs out but the guy I was going to borrow from got sick. God at this point Im half debating playing Verdant Catacombs as my Fetches and playing basic Forest and Swamp in this hostile Meta.


EDIT: I remember in round 2 Game 2 I played a DDreams for 4 with him at 5 lands out and a couple of Entreat Tokens. He proceeds to rip RIP. Plays his second land and fucks me. I regret not just DDreams for 5. Would have at leasxt kept him off of a RIP for at least one turn.

I'm really interested in brewing a Loam list with Young Pyromancer. It has been touched on briefly earlier in this thread already, so here is my list.

CREATURES
2 Countryside Crusher (Not sure on this. Deck needs a beater and this seemed like the best at closing out games and avoiding land flood late game)
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
4 Young Pyromancer
SPELLS
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
3 Life from the Loam
3 Liliana of the Veil (Not sure on number. With DRS and Mox, turn 2 Lilly seems strong, but maybe not relevant enough against combo. Thoughtseize?)
3 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
LAND
23
# Grove of the Burnwillows
# Wasteland
# ON Cycling lands
# Fetches
# Taiga, Bayou, Badlands
? Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

I'm having a hard time with the mana base, as the deck is color hungry but also wants to run Wasteland and some number of ON Cycling lands (Forgotten Cave, Tranquil Thicket, Barren Moor).

Sideboard would contain assorted wish targets as a toolbox, including Raven's Crime, and possibly Flame Jab, to combo w/ Pyromancer, as well as LftL number 4.

The lack of Dark Confidant or Sylvan Library in that list is puzzling. The 1/1 tokens are not particularly relevant unless you can kill literally all of your opponent's creatures (not happening) or you have a lot of them, and 1-2 Loams per turn is just not going to cut it. Plus, relying on Loam to trigger Pyromancer regularly makes you super easy to shut down post-board. Confidant and Library provide extra sources of long-term card advantage and dig you into more spells to fuel Pyromancer without needing the graveyard to do so.

Not running Assault or Dreams also seems wrong to me. Why run Loam at all, then? You can just play Punishing Jund and not have to stuff your deck full of lands and Diamonds and other do-nothings. Hell, Pyromancer seems fine in Punishing Jund, especially in conjunction with a bigger discard suite to strip your opponent of his ability to stabilize against your 1/1s.

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Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies

The lack of Dark Confidant or Sylvan Library in that list is puzzling. The 1/1 tokens are not particularly relevant unless you can kill literally all of your opponent's creatures (not happening) or you have a lot of them, and 1-2 Loams per turn is just not going to cut it. Plus, relying on Loam to trigger Pyromancer regularly makes you super easy to shut down post-board. Confidant and Library provide extra sources of long-term card advantage and dig you into more spells to fuel Pyromancer without needing the graveyard to do so.

Not running Assault or Dreams also seems wrong to me. Why run Loam at all, then? You can just play Punishing Jund and not have to stuff your deck full of lands and Diamonds and other do-nothings. Hell, Pyromancer seems fine in Punishing Jund, especially in conjunction with a bigger discard suite to strip your opponent of his ability to stabilize against your 1/1s.

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Im glad someone agrees with me about YP. In a deck that is only trying to cast 2 CMC spells for the most part, getting an extra 1/1 per turn is very meh. This deck is all about synergies and all, but the only synergies that an extra 1/1 provides in this deck is a chump blocker

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Im glad someone agrees with me about YP. In a deck that is only trying to cast 2 CMC spells for the most part, getting an extra 1/1 per turn is very meh. This deck is all about synergies and all, but the only synergies that an extra 1/1 provides in this deck is a chump blocker

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The idea with YP is to gain added value while disrupting the opponent. Burn a creature, get 1/1. Make them discard, get a 1/1. And the synergy of YP with Cabal Therapy is insane.

In looking over the list again, I think that it does need more instants/sorceries to take better advantage of YP. I'm thinking cut 2 Liliana for a Thoughtseize and a Raven's Crime.

As for Aggro_zombies's comments, you're probably right that the deck needs either Dark Confidant or Sylvan Library. But Devasting Dreams seems really bad, as it kills you YP and all the tokens you've made. Seismic Assault seems hard on the mana, is not a instant/sorcerie, and failed to impress me in previous Loam builds.

Another problem I'm having is the number of different cards I'd like to run in this list. Smallpox and Lightning Bolt both come to mind. I've also considered splashing white for Knight of the Reliquary and Lingering Souls, but I don't think the mana could support it.

In the end, maybe Hooglan's 4C Loam Control list is just better.

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Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle

The idea with YP is to gain added value while disrupting the opponent. Burn a creature, get 1/1. Make them discard, get a 1/1. And the synergy of YP with Cabal Therapy is insane.

In looking over the list again, I think that it does need more instants/sorceries to take better advantage of YP. I'm thinking cut 2 Liliana for a Thoughtseize and a Raven's Crime.

As for Aggro_zombies's comments, you're probably right that the deck needs either Dark Confidant or Sylvan Library. But Devasting Dreams seems really bad, as it kills you YP and all the tokens you've made. Seismic Assault seems hard on the mana, is not a instant/sorcerie, and failed to impress me in previous Loam builds.

Another problem I'm having is the number of different cards I'd like to run in this list. Smallpox and Lightning Bolt both come to mind. I've also considered splashing white for Knight of the Reliquary and Lingering Souls, but I don't think the mana could support it.

In the end, maybe Hooglan's 4C Loam Control list is just better.

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But like he said, if you aren't paying stuff like dreams and assault, why not just skip loam and play jund? You basically have named everything from jund except instead of BBE you play loam and ravens crime. I see your point, but loam is already a somewhat underwhelming engine, and assault and dreams gives you a splashy effect that makes loam worth it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle

As for Aggro_zombies's comments, you're probably right that the deck needs either Dark Confidant or Sylvan Library. But Devasting Dreams seems really bad, as it kills you YP and all the tokens you've made. Seismic Assault seems hard on the mana, is not a instant/sorcerie, and failed to impress me in previous Loam builds.

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Seismic Assault is only hard on the mana if you're also going to run Liliana, since then you need to hit BB, RRR, and at least GG reliably, or if you want to be greedy and run four colors. Also, for several years, Assault was literally the only good reason to consider running a Life from the Loam deck; if it "failed to impress" you, you probably don't want to be playing Aggro Loam.

Dreams completely crushes a number of non-blue fair decks in the format, so it is at least a sideboard consideration. Pyromancer merely chumps in many of those matchups, while Dreams will take your opponent out of the game, so the swap is usually pretty clean.

Raven's Crime is a really bad Mind Twist. If you're considering running Crime, you might want to try drawing up a Punishing Jund list and stick YP in that - it is probably far more effective.

A few posts ago, I was a pyromancer believer as well. Megadeus explained it perfectly. Yp might be a nice engine, but not with loam. It's just too cute. Furthermore, you don't want that extra value of the token and you certainly don't want it to be your kill. If you want tokens as a kill, I found a singleton worm harvest to be awesome. There are a lot of long, grindy match ups in my meta. Worm harvest helps.

So you should either play a more traditional loam list (4cc, aggro, control, June, whatever suits your needs) play a whole bunch of games and gently start tweaking if necessary, or just play another shell for Yp.

I'm fairly confident that the best shell for Yp is a tempo type build, u/r or something. A whole bunch of brainstorm, lightning bolt, chain lightning, ponder, daze, fow, delver etc. But I might be wrong.

Currently I play Jeff hooglands list, it's just a breath of fresh air to have so many options. It's just exactly my style of mtg.

My eyes were bleeding on that round 6. Awful performance

I just caught the tail end of it. Looked tough. Lots of mis plays or what?

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I just caught the tail end of it. Looked tough. Lots of mis plays or what?

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Sorry for my english, Im an american who forgot his own native language hehe (18 years away).

I cant remember all the missplays I saw but i would do my best.

On G1, He was on the draw with a very good hand. Opp started with land into DRS. He draws, plays a wasteland mox diamond (pitching badlands I think) into Sylvan library which got countered by FOW (he had chalice of the void in hand, which is a very good FoW bait or in any other case, it would stop any second DRS copy, brainstorms or bait an abrupt decay which could destroy your library -which you play only 2 copies and would give you plenty more advantage on the draw). Second turn his opponent landed a second DRS... then a goyf, jace, decay, GG.

On G2, he started just with a Wooded Foothills, his oponent with a Creeping Tar Pit. T2 chalice at 1 (he fetches a savannah telegraphing a turn 3 KOTR or Thalia and having no protection for his lands, people underestimate the power of your SINGLE basic land). The oponent land a trop island and end his turn. Turn 3 (he commits I think the worst thing you can do) He had 1 Thalia, 1 LFTL, 1 Wasteland and I think a burning wish on hand. He wasteland the creeping tar pit and cast the Thalia with no other land drops on his hand. EVERY single time he should have Loam, he's not the beater deck... BUG shardless play at least twice creature than his deck (he could land the third land into Agent-Goyf or worst) or just wasteland your green source and GG.

Another missplays I remember, He fetches for a Plateau (which was the best dual land in that turn) but he took it back and played a second Taiga (He had KOTR on his hand and then he couldnt cast it).

His oponente board was 5 lands 2 DRS 1 Agent. He draws a Devastating dreams (he did have a burning any case). Burning wish for Loam, put a wasteland on play and THEN cast a devastating dreams for 3 (having 4 cards left in his hand). He should keep that wasteland on hand and do a dreams for 2 instead of 3 (was he afraid of jace? :S) he discarded his single loam which got exiled before the resolution of dreams with the shaman.

At some point he was at 4 and just a single land, he draws a cycle land and draw... risking a safe land drop for a random card from the top (he top decked a Maze of Ith, but it was a suboptimal play any case).

On early game on G1 he had a online DRS, his oponent used the DRS giving him a window for loaming. He had Nantuko Monastery on the GY and he just picked any land he first saw. If you have 1-of cards, you should try to save them most of the times, especially Nantuko Monastery which can take down a PWs pretty easily.

Anyway, he didnt draw any Punishing Fire and drew GSZ with dryad on hand. Bad luck, dude! He was 4-1-1 at the end of that round... I hope he can do a straight 3 wins for top8!

In other news, Jeff Hoogland is 7-1 until now...great!

PS: He did 3 straight wins to top 8! I hope to see both aggro loam on finals hehehe

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Originally Posted by KntrellCL

In other news, Jeff Hoogland is 7-1 until now...great!

PS: He did 3 straight wins to top 8! I hope to see both aggro loam on finals hehehe

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He isn't in t8, right? Too bad, would've love to see that.

[edit] duh, kurt is....

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Originally Posted by Hencules

He isn't in t8, right? Too bad, would've love to see that.

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Yes, he won R9 against deathblade making 3 wins in a row since R6. Quarter final against belcher -.-

Super awkward vs Belcher. Our chalices aren't overly effective vs them unfortunately. I personally think Chalice on 0 > Chalice on One in this match up. Either way they are kind of meh. (not that I would board them out).

led is the most effective card (0x3 mana) to either activate belcher or a good burning wish

Too bad, he lost. He did have nice hands, but Ben starting seemed the doom.

Twas rough. Unfortunate. Ugh Blood Moons are going to be everywhere in two weeks when I play the open lol. I may play reverent silence and Hull Breach both in my SB...

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Twas rough. Unfortunate. Ugh Blood Moons are going to be everywhere in two weeks when I play the open lol. I may play reverent silence and Hull Breach both in my SB...

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Welcome to the perils of playing a greedy deck.

I love the 4C loam list of Hoogland, but I have a problem. Nic Fit is terrible to play against, in particular the Scapeshift version. I have chalice on one and gaddock teeg as good cards against them, but they have plenty of answer to those. A scary scapeshift wrecks me. Perhaps it's not a deck you run in too often, but some local players play it here.

I really have the feeling that a better player than me would win, though. I still suck at the decision-making process, I guess. Do more experienced players have some clear do's and don'ts with the 4C Hoogland list?