Ruby Storm

I think Ral is cool, 4 mana is alot, and needing both blue and red cuts off seething song to cast it. So it might be a bit too slow, but the effect is really really really good. It will suck to draw when the opponent already has creatures on board. Could be a sideboard card against miracles/grixis control.

On the topic of sideboard. Say you play UR (or i guess it could apply to monored as well), you are going to play 5 games vs delver decks (a mix of grixis, ur, uw and rug) with your life on stake. You get to select 5 cards for your sideboard. What would you pick?

Your current sideboard is
1 Grapeshot
1 Pif
1 RoF
1 Empty
1 huf
2 Fiery Confluence
3 flusterstorm

On the topic of sideboard. Say you play UR (or i guess it could apply to monored as well), you are going to play 5 games vs delver decks (a mix of grixis, ur, uw and rug) with your life on stake. You get to select 5 cards for your sideboard. What would you pick?

Your current sideboard is
1 Grapeshot
1 Pif
1 RoF
1 Empty
1 huf
2 Fiery Confluence
3 flusterstorm

i think extra empty the warrens is what i see TES and ANT go for against the non sweeper versions. i like abrade a lot even though it doesn't hit the dome, but it does double up against stompy decks.

bolt is also great vs delver, sometimes you can hit their creatures and then the clocks are too slow. i also like an echoing truth or two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mistercakes

On the topic of sideboard. Say you play UR (or i guess it could apply to monored as well), you are going to play 5 games vs delver decks (a mix of grixis, ur, uw and rug) with your life on stake. You get to select 5 cards for your sideboard. What would you pick?

---

I like [sudden shock] a LOT in the sb. Thalia is really annoying and being able to nerf her is gold. They also kill flipped delvers guaranteed, can sneak a kill on a [monastery mentor], and still add up to decent damage with bonus rounds (It's not uncommon for me to deal 16 with a sudden shock, which is often enough to kill a thoughtseize deck)

Both bolt and sudden shock have utility, i'm looking more for something like "if i draw this i win" card, like leyline vs reanimator. I realize that it does not exist, but i'm curious about what's closest. My guess is that it's either empty or chalice, but maybe it exists even better cards :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JosefK

Both bolt and sudden shock have utility, i'm looking more for something like "if i draw this i win" card, like leyline vs reanimator. I realize that it does not exist, but i'm curious about what's closest. My guess is that it's either empty or chalice, but maybe it exists even better cards :)

---

telemin performance or bribery, probably a bit too slow.

otherwise typical graveyard hate would apply here.

for really crazy stuff you can check out:


Hallowed Moonlight 1White (2)
Instant
Until end of turn, if a creature would enter the battlefield and it wasn't cast, exile it instead.

Draw a card.

OR


Mistcaller Blue (1)
Creature — Merfolk Wizard (1/1)
Sacrifice Mistcaller: Until end of turn, if a nontoken creature would enter the battlefield and it wasn't cast, exile it instead.

Well, I ment a card vs delver, that has the same amount of effect as leyline has vs reanimator.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JosefK

Well, I ment a card vs delver, that has the same amount of effect as leyline has vs reanimator.

---

probably just play more flusterstorm. divert could also be fun.

i've been tinkering around a lot on cockatrice as wanted to put in a little more effort with the blue versions as it seems to be what more people want to play.


// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
3 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Brainstorm

// 14 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
3 Sandstone Needle
1 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
2 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire

// 23 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
3 Act on Impulse
4 Ponder
3 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Instant
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Abrade

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Act on Impulse


mizzix's mastery is not set in stone as it could be pretty much anything. likely the best card is surgical extraction or another abrade.

one interaction in this list that is rather nice:

bonus round resolved + brainstorm + led + AoI in hand. (with U)

play the LED, cast brainstorm. resolve first brainstorm putting AoI on top of deck, resp to second brainstorm crack LED, then you can cast AoI with the LED mana.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JosefK

Well, I ment a card vs delver, that has the same amount of effect as leyline has vs reanimator.

---

Empty the Warrens has always been the hay-maker card for Storm vs Delver.
If you can crack of an empty for 8-10 goblins within the first 2 turns, you're heavily favored.
Back when I was on DDFT and Grixis Delver [felt like it] was 90% of the meta, I was running 3-4 Empties in the 75.

The only card that they (sometimes) run that can punish us for that is Marsh Casualties. Otherwise Empty is basically a free-roll vs them.

Yeah, i probably will have to stick to empty. I've been playing three lately but it has kind of underperformed. My opponents always seem to read my intentions and counter at the exact right time so I spend many resources doing nothing. Also there has been an uptick in stifles lately. I was hoping there was some secret tech :)

I've been playing a bit lately again, preparing for an offline tournament next week. I tried a league with 4x chalice in the sideboard. Unfortunately I did not get to test them that much as I only had two matchups where I boarded them in. I cast chalice twice, one resolved and my opponent scooped (vs snt). Then I had one game where I could cast t1 OTD off a petal vs a t1 delver but chose not to as i was afraid of daze and needed the petal. In hindsight i should have casted it as my opponent had like 2 spell pierce brainstorm ponder thoughtseize no daze/fow.
I think the rule when it comes to chalice is just jam it.
Will probably try it one more league. I really like how it stops a lot of annoying things, and the thought of being a storm combo deck with chalice is cool :)

https://i.imgur.com/vDRVZF6.png

Might be too much of a stretch, but we could play it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 8bit9mm

Finale of Promise

---

It looks like a Wish target, similar to Past in Flames or Mizzix Mastery, but I think it's not worth it. Then again I don't have that much experience with the deck, but here are some basic thoughts:
It let's you cast a maximum of two spells if you have an Instant and a Sorcery in your graveyard. Instants in Mono R are Mana Morphose, Seething Song and maybe Desperate Ritual. Maybe some Lightning Bolts or Commune with Lava too. In UR you can add Brainstorm to the list (Flusterstorm or other counterspells can be ignored, you don't want to cast those with Finale of Promise). So for most lists about 8-12 Instants. Just 8 Spells could be a bit low, 10+ sounds better to me. I guess that makes Finale at least playable?

If you have Bonus Round up this thing gets really good, but that's the case for most of our spells. It's more interesting to look at it if no Bonus Round was resolved before.
I think most of the time you want to get a card draw spell plus a ritual to cast further spells. To do that in Mono R you can cast Finale for 3RR to get Act on Impulse and Seething Song. Seething Song gives you back the 5 mana you have invested, so you just cast a free Act on Impulse and still have RRRRR floating, wich is not that bad.
Or for the same amount of mana you could cast Bonus Round and either Seething Song or Mana Morphose, wich gives an active Bonus Round with RRRRR floating or an active Bonus Round with 2 mana floating and a card drawn.

In UR you can cast Finale of Promise for as few as 1RR to get a Brainstorm and a Rite of Flame, wich isn't that amazing though. You have less mana than before (if you didn't have other RoF in your grave) and have cycled a card.

For both Mono R and UR there are other options of course, but those all sound even less interesting. I feel that it's only really worth it for X=3. If you keep in mind that you have wished for Finale in the first place then you can add another two mana to the cost, wich makes Finale pretty unappealing.

If you have 12+ mana to cast it with X=10 then Past in Flames or Mizzix Mastery are also good. Usually each of those spells could win the game at that point. But the other two are better if you have less than 12 mana imho.
With one or more resolved Bonus Rounds Finale of Promise can get pretty crazy. But at that point I would still prefer Mizzix Mastery, because it costs 1 less to cast and isn't restricted to Instant+Sorcery, so it's just a bit more flexible there. And without Bonus Round Mizzix Mastery seems better too.

Finale of Promise could be a flex slot card in the main of the Mono R version, but it doesn't appeal to me as a wishboard card.

Trigunner, I agree completely. It's a 5 mana spell that is reliant on having good cards in your graveyard. But can't deny that x>10 is cool :)

So, Niagara is almost upon us. I think I'm pretty locked in with my list (same as St. Louis):

MD:
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
4x Bonus Round
4x Brainstorm
4x Burning Wish
4x Desperate Ritual
1x Island
4x Lotus Petal
4x Manamorphose
1x Mountain
2x Past in Flames
4x Ponder
4x Reforge the Soul
3x Rite of Flame
4x Ruby Medallion
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Seething Song
3x Volcanic Island
1x Wooded Foothills

SB:
1x Abrade
1x By Force
1x Empty the Warrens
2x Fiery Confluence
2x Flusterstorm
1x Grapeshot
1x Hazoret's Undying Fury
2x Hope of Ghirapur
1x Past in Flames
1x Rite of Flame
2x Surgical Extraction

The only change I've really been considering is maybe adding a Cratermaker or two to the SB (had a Prelate on 2 each my lunch the other day).
Craterboi does cost 1-more in total over Abrade, but it also doesn't get taxed by Thalia.

Edit: On a side note, the London mulligan on MTGO has felt pretty good for this deck, especially since we can have some pretty awkward openers with Ancient Tomb.
As a whole, though, I don't think the London mulligan should be implemented. I think it promotes unhealthy deck construction.

good luck!

Good luck, make us proud!
I also have 2 offline tourneys this weekend. My current list is almost like yours in the main, only differences being 2 ssgs over the basics, -1 fetch + 1 volcanic island and also -1 pif for 1 intuition. I'm still debating those differences tho. Well i won't go below 4 volcanics, but the other ones :)

Sideboard differs a bit

2x Flusterstorm
2x Echoing truth
2x Fiery Confluence
1x Rite of flame
3x Empty The Warrens
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grapeshot
1x Past in flames
1x Hazoret's undying fury


I love hope of ghirapur, but i feel that it's only good vs miracles, so i play 2x extra empty instead. I would love to have room for abrade and flusterstorm 3. Surgical #2 or empty #3 are the most cuttable cards currently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JosefK

Good luck, make us proud!
I also have 2 offline tourneys this weekend. My current list is almost like yours in the main, only differences being 2 ssgs over the basics, -1 fetch + 1 volcanic island and also -1 pif for 1 intuition. I'm still debating those differences tho. Well i won't go below 4 volcanics, but the other ones :)

Sideboard differs a bit

2x Flusterstorm
2x Echoing truth
2x Fiery Confluence
1x Rite of flame
3x Empty The Warrens
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grapeshot
1x Past in flames
1x Hazoret's undying fury


I love hope of ghirapur, but i feel that it's only good vs miracles, so i play 2x extra empty instead. I would love to have room for abrade and flusterstorm 3. Surgical #2 or empty #3 are the most cuttable cards currently.

---

I wouldn't mind a 2nd Empty in my board.
I've felt that Hope has overperformed for me. I expect to see a decent amount of Miracles, Blade, and UW Delver and Hope is great against all the Tundra decks. It's also pretty good against Shadow, which I've been having trouble with lately.

Surgical is probably the least boarded in card for me, but I am afraid to cut it. I really do want to find room for Cratermaker, though. I've been really impressed by it in other decks.

I haven't found that I need a bounce spell. The only thing that Abrade/Cratermaker/By Force doesn't answer that we commonly see are Leyline of Sanctity (don't care, Confluence says "each opponent"), Leyline of the Void (inconvenient, but also mostly don't care) and Marit Lage (scary, but I think we're fast enough to largely ignore it).

I will say that if I played a bounce spell, I would probably pick Hurkyl's (because of the uptick in Red Prison lately) or Consign//Oblivion since we can wish for Oblivion and don't have to worry about the combined CMC if we board it in since we don't play Ad Nauseam.

True about hope being good vs stoneblade as well. The problem vs delver is mostly that they can just leave one delver home to negate it. Vs UR delver I wouldn't even board it in when they have pteramander, delver and bolts. I might want to add one just for miracles and stoneblade and maybe show and tell.

My reasoning for running echoing truth is that it is multipurpose, can bounce Thalia, trinisphere, canonist and all cards that abrade could kill. But also marit lage, iona/Chancellor, pyrostatic pillar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JosefK

True about hope being good vs stoneblade as well. The problem vs delver is mostly that they can just leave one delver home to negate it. Vs UR delver I wouldn't even board it in when they have pteramander, delver and bolts. I might want to add one just for miracles and stoneblade and maybe show and tell.

My reasoning for running echoing truth is that it is multipurpose, can bounce Thalia, trinisphere, canonist and all cards that abrade could kill. But also marit lage, iona/Chancellor, pyrostatic pillar.

---

I forgot about Iona and Pillar. I'm not discounting E-Truth, that's for sure. I've played that card in the SB of more decks than I can count.

I also can't seem to find any Darksteel JPN ones...
It's in my list of cards to pick up, along with Perilous Voyage, Consign//Oblivion, another Fluster, more Empties, a Pulverize, and a couple of other small things.

after seeing the set spoiled in full, i'm not really on board with any of the new cards. here's the current mono red list that i'll run:

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 2 Creature
2 Simian Spirit Guide

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
5 Mountain

// 21 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
3 Act on Impulse
2 Light Up the Stage
3 Hazoret's Undying Fury


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 2 Hope of Ghirapur
SB: 2 Guttersnipe

// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 3 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Act on Impulse

sb isn't 100% confirmed (at least the 2 hope, 2 guttersnipe, 2 of the 3 empty.) 6 cards are pretty flexible, not sure what i would do in an unknown meta, but for a known meta just choose accordingly. with 2 spirit guide, the scab-clan berserker is good too.

I played some paper this weekend, I played my challenge list but with 2 pif no intuition, 2 basics no ssg(fun fact, I have fbb duals and beta power but no ssgs) and some tweaks to the sideboard.
Quick recap. I actually don't remember that much so I will probably be off somewhat.
Round 1 vs UB reanimator.
I go first but he reanimated a turn 1 ashen rider to exile my land. He has no follow-up so I win on my t3. Game 2 he gets a quick reanimate on grieselbrand, but fails to draw a fow as a response to my seething song so wish for grapeshot kills him.

Round 2, probably uw stoneblade
I lost game 1, made goblins game 2, and got through thanks to pif game 3.

Round 3, esper delverblade
Lots could be said about this game, but I will keep it short.
Game 1 took lots of time, I needed to find a burning wish and had 16 ponders to find it, it took 12 of them. My opp would not scoop. I nearly got game 2, but didn't. Before game 3 my opponent called on the judge to watch our game because he thought my deck was to slow, not that I played slowly. The judge watched us and my opponent immediately forgot to draw for his turn and got a warning. I lost focus and did not fluster a t1 e.tutor for canonist and lost quickly. My opponent and the judge had an argument about his judge call, and suddenly I was accused of playing to fast. Strange times, but it ebbed out.

Round 4, something with delver and stoneforge
I won game 1 through pif, lost a tight game 2. Game 3 went back and forth. I made a small play error and my opponent played well, but he was almost hellbent when I could make 4 goblins and he drew only counters for 4 turns.

Round 5, miracles at the feature table
Link to stream
Commentary is in swedish (and no sound at all for game 1 it seems)
At the end of game 2 i might have made a mistake in going for reforge the soul. Thing is i'm like 95% sure to win the game on the spot if i reforge with that much mana. What i should have done if i just thought a bit more about it is to realize that if he left a land on top after brainstorming, it probably tells me that he has only lands in hand and top 2 cards being lands as well. His only out to my goblins then become that he fetch and draw into terminus and brainstorm or verdict with his jace. At the exact moment i cast reforge i think it was correct, but i probably should have kept my lotus petals and not overcasted rituals from the grave to make enough goblins and then passed.
I did some misplays this game, one of them were that i put back cards in the wrong order of a ponder, you can see my puzzled reaction when i draw a brainstorm of my manamorphose at one time. Also my opponent did some mindgames, game 1 he faked daze as a response to my brainstorm (you see him touch his land, but he also said "probably not worth dazing that"). Game two when i went off and he had declined to use counterbalance when i cast a 1, a 3 and a 4 he said "lets see if you can win through a counterbalance at two". Fun games overall

Round 6, ID

Quarterfinals vs .... stoneblade
G1 I won easily, G2 lost a close game. G3 I mulligan to 6, my opponent mulls to 5. I decide to test it with petal tomb desperate empty for 6 goblins. My opponent draws for his turn and scoops. He had held a hand with cantrips flusterstorms and spell pierce but no land.

Top4 splits.

Good things

• I played really well, and fast. 3 coloured spindowns make things easy and I really had a good flow.
• Setting up reforge for eot manamorphose is great fun.
• 3 empty in the sideboard

Bad things

• Few people. There used to be like 100 people at this event, this year I think we were around 50.
• After our game in round five my opponent asked me if I played cliffys list and I'm annoyed by my reaction to this. Just silly.
• I missed vintage nationals as round 1 started at the same time as the quarterfinals.
• The basic lands, i always get better results with them, but they never feel good. I don't understand why they give better results.

Congrats on the strong finish @JosefK!

It's good to see the deck in much more competent hands than my own :tongue:

I'm still watching through your feature match (bits and pieces while at work), but it made me cringe when you opponent faked having a Daze. That's just obnoxious and unnecessary, in my opinion.

I spent the weekend at GP Niagara (I refuse to call it a Magic Fest) and had a very mediocre record of 4-4.
I also did not keep very good notes (sorry guys).

Losses:
D&T (had a bad wheel g3 that gave my opponent a Canonist in hand)
RB Reanimator (didn't register Echoing Truth and got Iona'd)
Miracles (opponent had CB every game and was a master of the blind flip)
Eldrazi (this one was actually interesting, because after killing him g1, he boarded out all his Chalices and brought in 4 Leyline and 4 Thorn, which actually worked)

Wins:
RUg Phoenix w/ Land Grant (Surgical pulled its weight)
ANT (2-0, turn 2'd my opponent both games. This opponent was really fun and loved watching the deck do its thing)
4c Control w/ P-Fire (T1 16 goblins g1, T2 wheel into goblins g2)
Lands (got 20/20'd t3 g1, opp didn't know what I was on, so he boarded out Tabernacle and Glacial Chasm g2 and t1 goblins get there, g3 I go off right through my opp's sphere of resistance. While going off I found the abrade, but elected to keep the sphere in place to lock my opp out of Crop Rotation. I cast PiF twice from hand and flashed it back once on my combo turn g3. Brainstorm + 7 Bonus Round triggers eventually find me the Burning Wish to win)

The deck felt fine, but I had some really awkward openers and mulligans all day.
Basics felt fine :wink:
4th wheel felt wrong. I wanted it in the SB multiple times over Hazoret's. Maybe it's just me, but I like my odds off of wheeling much more than off Hazoret's. Wheeling also feels much better when you're playing Hope.

Going forward, I plan to test:
Main: +1 Intuition, -1 Reforge the Soul
Side: +1 Reforge the Soul, -1 Hazoret's Undying Fury

Once again, congratulations on the strong finish JosefK :)
We all know you aren't playing Ciffy's list haha

still tinkering around on this. good news is am putting back my PC and just need to find time to play, assuming that my wifi is good enough to support playing modo.

here's the next list i will test.

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion

// 3 Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide

// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Lightning Bolt

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
5 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 22 Sorcery
3 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Reforge the Soul
3 Light Up the Stage
2 Past in Flames
3 Rite of Flame
4 Bonus Round


// 10 Sideboard
// 10 Sorcery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Act on Impulse
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony


(still needs 5 cards, pretty open, but i like the 10 as wish targets, for modo it will probably have some anti-combo cards, and maybe 1 or 2 anti control cards.)

I'm curious, @mistercakes:

I have no experience with this deck but I've kept my eye on it ever since Bonus Round. What is the incentive to run Mono-R in the first place currently? Sandstone Needle?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rationalist

I'm curious, @mistercakes:

I have no experience with this deck but I've kept my eye on it ever since Bonus Round. What is the incentive to run Mono-R in the first place currently? Sandstone Needle?

---

it's a good question. i'm not sure if it's better to run it over the UR. i haven't really gotten enough time to play modo with mono red.

however, UR isn't a tier 1 deck by any means. i don't think there needs to be a huge debate between UR and mono red. they each have their own flavors, and i still don't know if i have the list optimized, even after about 2 years. (it helps that we keep getting new toys)

Mono red pros:

sandstone needle, act on impulse, LED.

in a vacuum, LED is significantly better than desperate ritual. the way it combos with burning wish, act on impulse, light up the stage, and past in flames is really something special. LED also enables better hands for empty the warrens as the wish target.

sandstone needle provides an easier way to get turn 2 kills. something like turn 1 needle, turn 2 tomb + petal/ssg + bonus round can give some quick steals.

act on impulse. while by itself isn't nearly as good as brainstorm or ponder, with ruby medallion i'd put them about equal. with bonus round both of them are actually pretty close, but act on impulse doesn't require an off color starting point.

something like turn 1 tomb ruby, turn 2 mountain seething song, bonus round, act on impulse -> flip 6 cards and still have 1R remaining. this is almost always game over. if we compare with something like

turn 1 ruby, turn 2 seething song, bonus round, cantrip (you still need a petal here, or manamorphose.)

turn 1 with LED you can do things like: petal/ssg + tomb -> seething song -> bonus round -> led -> bw -> crack for RRR -> RoF + hazoret's.

i'm still not sure if i should have 3 maindeck 1 AoI or 4 AoI. i find myself tutoring for it less often mid combo. it's possible it should be the light up the stage in the sb, as it's less needed. hard to say.

you are also less vulnerable to chalice. the UR version can get around it if it resolves a bonus round first, but otherwise chalice can slow down the deck considerably. it's usually not an issue unless if they follow it up with a threat.

i think that josef can speak to the weaknesses of the UR version, and maybe the red version has some more game in that department. it's also entirely possible it doesn't!

lastly, assuming you have LED's (maybe you're a dredge or belcher player), this is a much easier migration into a combo deck that isn't dredge or a glass cannon. the deck can reliably fight through multiple counters/discard.

the main appeal of the UR version is the ability to manipulate the deck for reforge the soul. if that's something you're into you should check out the UR version.

Is Finale of Promise any good here?

At X=3 it copies Seething Song/Manamorphose/Ritual and Bonus Round/Act on Impulse. It's a dud off Hazoret though.

@rationalist and mistercakes

It's an interesting question!

I think that the only weaknesses that is specific to the UR version is probably
1) Non basic land hate.
2) Draw-hate, like leovold, narset(?) spirit of the lab
3) Chalice for 1

1 Does not really come up much. And i think except for choke that mono R suffers about the same with its 8 nonbasics.
2 It becomes really hard to win with those on the table. UR has 16 cards that draws cards. I guess the flip cards help mono R some. Will see if the new narset becomes popular then this might be an argument for staying monoR.
3 is almost never any problem. I had to check my numbers, but it seems that there actually is a correlation between me winning and my opponent casting chalice. Chalice for 2 is a lot worse than 1.

The main weaknesses of the deck in general i think is shared by both UR and monoR (and probably worse for monoR).

1) You play a deck that's ~60% mana. Some times you just flood out.
2) No protection. I think this sometimes is misinterpreted as the deck is a glass cannon or "dies to fow". It's not. The data is kind of hard to evaluate, but i win 48% of the matches where a FoW is cast (i win 53% if it is miracles that casts it). The real problem is that the way to beat fow/blue permission is the complete opposite of how you beat ANT, lands and reanimator. To beat blue, you make land drops, maybe force them to counter something, but in the end you overload them with like an EOT reforge which they stop, then you go pif, flashback pif in the same turn. To beat ANT/lands/reanimator you just win t2. This makes it hard to balance the deck.

I think the problem in 2 is also the explanation why the matchups vs DnT/Moon stompy etc are so good. Both plans work, they can be beaten by winning T2 or by making landdrops and hording rituals/bonus rounds.

current list to help inherit mana issues with the deck. i really don't like faithless looting, but i think it might be a necessary evil for consistency. at least it's pretty good with bonus round, and it does help with fizzling.


// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 8 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song

// 15 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
9 Mountain
2 Sandstone Needle

// 25 Sorcery
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
4 Light Up the Stage
2 Past in Flames
3 Rite of Flame
3 Bonus Round
3 Faithless Looting
2 Empty the Warrens


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Hope of Ghirapur

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Abrade

// 10 Sorcery
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Faithless Looting
SB: 1 Pulverize
SB: 1 Rite of Flame

the new horizon canopy lands seem great for this deck, especially for the UR version which can enable EOT reforge the soul miracle. (still requires pseudo 4 mana).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

the new horizon canopy lands seem great for this deck, especially for the UR version which can enable EOT reforge the soul miracle. (still requires pseudo 4 mana).

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It's a possibility to replace the 2 basics I was playing with them, but that does make the manabase quite painful.
Someone smarter than I will have to come up with a UR manabase using them :tongue:

My instinct is to be negative about new cards :)

The good parts
Flood protection
Miracle interaction

The bad parts
Damage
Can't be fetched

I don't think the damage part is that bad, but i do think the fact that they can't be fetched for make it hard to find room for them. Currently playing 6 fetches and 5 fetchable lands and i still occasionally get to the situation where i have no fetchable lands in the deck (especially when you reforge away a couple of lands early).

I don't think the miracle interaction is that great actually, it's a big up front cost and you have to sacrifice a land, so it only "nets" you 1 mana that way (compared to regular drawstep miracle) and with a ruby out its no difference. The flood protection seems great, and possibly it would be a good idea to go up to 16 or even 17 land and maybe cut a fetch.

I have never played with Horizon Canopy, so it might be that i underestimate the effect.

New card

2R
Enchantment
When it enters the battlefield, each opponent gains 10 life.

Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, put a verse counter on it, then it deals damage equal to the number of verse counters on it to target player or planeswalker.

So it fits the guttersnipe slot, you need to cast 8 instant/sorc to deal the 30 damage, which is still faster than snipe. Counters stay on the card so you don't have to do it all in one go.

It's an interesting effect, and I think it's very strong against the control decks. Maybe sb material, but hard to tell for sure. Guttersnipe has always played out very well for me vs miracles and other control decks. (it also gets under teeg), killing planeswalkers is a bonus. I think I'll try 1 or 2 sb to start.

The 2ur card is interesting as well. As expected, this deck gets some new toys for testing, time will tell if they are decent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

New card
2R
Enchantment
When it enters the battlefield, each opponent gains 10 life.

Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, put a verse counter on it, then it deals damage equal to the number of verse counters on it to target player or planeswalker.

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Now this is interesting! Very often 7 cards after this will be lethal (28 damage if i calculate correctly).
The fact that it's an enchanment is both a blessing and a curse. Preboard few decks can interact with it. Postboard i found that many board in disenchant effects already.

I dislike the 2R casting cost, i honestly would have liked it more if it gave 20 life and costed 1R.

I don't know what i would cut, probably nothing :) But there might exist a shell for this.
Nice side effect of killing deaths shadow :)

I was going to play a paper tournament last Sunday, but then all my friends decided to skip it so i stayed at home as well. I decided to try another challenge as i already cleared the time :)

Round 1 vs Stoneblade(or miracles?), Lost the die
G1 Mull to 5. Keep a hand with 1 land 2 brainstorms and something else. Opp flusterstorms my t1 brainstorm. Then his next play is a t4 jace, i see it as my chance and i go off and grapeshot him to death. No bonus round, no reforge the soul.
G2 Mull to 6, mana heavy hand, my plan is to bonus round a brainstorm to get there, but he fows my bonus round. I cast brainstorm any way and see three more mana cards. Opp lands narset and impulses up a flusterstorm and then a fow, i scoop.
G3 Keep 7, a strong hand but with only a petal for fast mana. I t1 brainstorm to see a tomb and a seething song. Win t2 with a flusterstorm targeting his spell pierce on my seething song. (SS -> BR -> MM -> BS)

Round 2 vs RUG Won the die
This was the strangest match in a long time for me.
G1 I keep a good seven but with only a petal for colored mana. I cast t1 ponder, finding land. Opp pondershuffles. I cast a ruby of a tomb and ponder again. Opp misses his land drop and cast a delver. I go for it t2, but have no draw spells. I decide between Hazorets or empty, but decide that empty for 14 goblins g1 vs delver is good enough and i dont want to be blown out by fow if my opponent saved it. I save a RoF in hand just in case anything happens. Pass the turn, my opponent plays land and... main deck echoing truth!?!? My turn i draw the intuition i kept on top from earlier, and intuition for 2 MM and pif for the win.
G2 I should not have won this... Opp lands a t1 delver and a t2 delver and then then a t3 cindervines. I can go off, but i'm at eleven and no way to remove cindervines, and no bonus round in hand. I get a ruby medallion and cast some manamorphoses and cantrips. I start to realize i can't win this but i play on, i might have forgotten something. I cast a seething song, he fows, i fluster his fow, then i cast another seething song, and in response to that he.... blows up .... cindervines ... to destroy my ruby.... with me at 3.... i wish for PiF and win.

Round 3 vs Stoneblade Won the die
G1 T1 ruby, t2 brainstorm into petal rite wish (going for goblins) he fows wish. I've setup a reforge for next turn and win from there.
G2 Opp mulls to five, i'm stuck on 1 land the entire game and my opponent counters everything i do for a couple of turns. Then i land a ruby off a petal and manage to manamorphose twice and then cast seething song. He fows, i fluster and win from there (bonus round -> wish).

Round 4 vs Stoneblade Lost the die
G1 i win quickly
G2 i messed up big time twice and my opponent played well. The first misplay was not jamming empty for 12 when i had 3 red mana, i instead cast a seething song that got fowed. My next misplay was even worse. It was a couple of turns later and my opponent had batterskull and stoneforge mystic in play almost hellbent. I cast a brainstorm and see exactly what i need to get to 6 mana fiery confluence to kill the batterskull and stoneforge and then empty for 14. I put back cards and go for it. The only problem was that i forgot that i only had one draw effect, somehow i thought i could use all cards i saw. So i played my rituals to 6 mana, cast fiery confluence, and realized that i did not have empty in hand... What i should have done was empty this turn and confluence kill the batterskull next turn.
G3, i mulligan, get 8 goblins, he gets stoneforge, i try to reforge away batterskull but he has the fow. Then i misplay again, i become obsessed with the idea that i should seething song -> bonus round -> echoing truth his germ and stoneforge and kill him. Everything resolved, but i miscalculated. I lost the game with him at 1 life. I had the opportunity to instead go for a bonus rounded ponder with 2 red floating and a ruby in play.

Round 5 vs Painter Lost the die
G1 I win quickly.
G2 he lands t1 grindstone, t2 trini, i wish for fiery confluence and the turn after that i kill trini and grindstone. I could go for a reforge or haz that turn without any mana floating, or wait until next turn to do it with tons of mana floating. With him only on traitors and mountain with 5 cards in hand i decide to pass.
He untaps. Play painter, grindstone, land SSG SSG kill me.
G3 turn 2 win through bonus round hazoret.

Round 6 vs Karn/eldrazi something. Lost the die
I recognize the name and guess he is on blue.
G1 I keep a 4 land 3 cantrip hand. He goes t1 chalice for 1, i draw for the turn.... ponder. He follows up with thought not and i never resolve anything.
G2 i keep a solid hand with ruby medallion and manamorphoses. He starts with chalice on 1 and i don't care, i play ruby. He follows up with chalice on 2, for the rest of the game i draw ruby medallions manamorphoses and burning wishes.


Round 7 vs DnT lost the die
Im 31-4 vs DnT this year, so when i realized he was on DnT it felt really good.
G1 I resolve t1 ruby medallion and win through thalia after a reforge
G2 He plays mother of runes -> thalia i play cantrips and make landdrops until i find a ruby medallion and win.

Another 5-2, ending up 18th this time. Highest placing stormplayer!

Decklist can be found at https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2019-05-22. I had a spicy WAR card in my list as you can see, unfortunately i never cast it. But it's a cool interaction with reforge.

Nice job, JosefK!

I'll be jamming a mono-red, bonus round heavy list at Magic Fest KC next week. Looking forward to reporting back! The list is a little bit dated but its one I feel pretty comfortable playing and have a good grip on the lines... I think. Will be my first event with it.

https://i.redd.it/50mwxgo7e6131.png

Did somebody say UR Ruby Storm with quad-LEDs?

now i get to sleeve up my gamble's again, and possibly my intuitions as well.

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 1 Creature
1 Simian Spirit Guide

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Brainstorm

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain

// 22 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
3 Bonus Round
4 Ponder
3 Timetwister
3 Gamble


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Instant
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Abrade

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Timetwister


i'll do more goldfishing without intuition for the time being. it might want more simian spirit guides too, not sure yet.

maybe something like this:

// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
3 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 3 Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Brainstorm

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain

// 21 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
2 Bonus Round
4 Ponder
3 Timetwister
3 Gamble


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Instant
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Abrade

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Timetwister

+2 SB slots

http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/throesofchaos.jpg

Surprised that no one commented on Throes of Chaos here yet. It looks like a potential substitute for the main deck HUF's in the mono red lists. Hits everything except PIF, has built-in recursion, and has a low cost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glass House

http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/throesofchaos.jpg

Surprised that no one commented on Throes of Chaos here yet. It looks like a potential substitute for the main deck HUF's in the mono red lists. Hits everything except PIF, has built-in recursion, and has a low cost.

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i think this card can really help the grindy matchups, but it doesn't speed it up. it also is quite poor vs thalia and taxing effects. would need to be tested, but the main value here is when you have a lot of mana. it's hard to say. keep in mind that if you have bonus round in effect, you don't get the cascade trigger twice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

keep in mind that if you have bonus round in effect, you don't get the cascade trigger twice.

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Missed that. Makes me less excited about the card now :frown:.