All B/R update speculation.

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Originally Posted by Hopo

I just don't get what is the problem with blue being the most played colour - flavor aside, of course. I guess people are more casual than I have thought. In general when talking about competitive gaming, you should play with what you think is the most powerful deck and that's what people are doing.

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You have different hats you wear at times. What you describe is indeed a correct attitude - for the competitive player. He should play what gets him the best EV, taking into account personal tendencies and metagame etc.

But there are other hats, like game design/balance or the event organizer viewpoint. There, things like color variety, gameplan variety, variety in feel (Shardless/Miracles/Storm v. Jund/D&T/Elves), whether people have fun playing, these kinds of things are the foremost concern. Since this is a general thread about the format, most people tend to speak with their game designer hat on. The cutthroat player hat is worn while at actual tournaments and in the deck-specific threads, trying to break and/or survive the format as well as possible.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Fixed that for you.

Seriously, each and every one of those glass cannons can be anwered without FoWs/Dazes. I honestly don't see the problem. Stifle, Leyline of Sanctity, Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Chalice of the Void, Ethersworn Canonist and god knows what else won't cease to exist. Heck, perhaps we'll run Gemstone Caverns so we can cast answers when our opponent is on the play for all I care.

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So running niche cards in your MB or auto loosing to combo game 1? Nice format.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

So running niche cards in your MB or auto loosing to combo game 1? Nice format.

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Who said anything about MB? Oh Lemnear, I expected more of you, lol. Besides, losing game 1 and winning game 2 and 3 never seems to be a problem for my opponents when I'm piloting Manaless Dredge :tongue:

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

So running niche cards in your MB or auto loosing to combo game 1? Nice format.

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This. There's a reason modern has had to ban so many cards

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Originally Posted by Hopo

I just don't get what is the problem with blue being the most played colour - flavor aside, of course. I guess people are more casual than I have thought. In general when talking about competitive gaming, you should play with what you think is the most powerful deck and that's what people are doing.

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This isn't a competative/casual argument. I played RUG to a top 64 finish at GP DC. I play brainstorm and delver b/c I play to win.

It just sucks when the entire format is the same. It's like caw/blade in its hay day, yeah you play it b/c you want to win but it just sucks.

Edit: and why are we talking about FoW? This format would be awful without FoW.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

This. There's a reason modern has had to ban so many cards

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And still people enjoy Modern. So what's your point?

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Originally Posted by testing32

Edit: and why are we talking about FoW? This format would be awful without FoW.

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Well, actually I was talking about banning Delver, FoW, Daze, Ponder and Brainstorm but for some reason people crap their pants when FoW is mentioned so we're focusing on that now rather than the entire shell.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Fixed that for you.

Seriously, each and every one of those glass cannons can be anwered without FoWs/Dazes. I honestly don't see the problem. Stifle, Leyline of Sanctity, Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Chalice of the Void, Ethersworn Canonist and god knows what else won't cease to exist. Heck, perhaps we'll run Gemstone Caverns so we can cast answers when our opponent is on the play for all I care.

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Aside from the Leylines (and maybe Surgical Extraction against GY decks), you're probably dead against said combos before you can play anything, even with running a subpar card like Gemstone Caverns. Losing like a bitch most of G1s before boarding doesn't sound like a great format.

Without the free counter police, the format would suck. The topic would be more debatable if there was way more "free" combo hate in the format it would be even maindeckable, but as it stands, it's a terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

And still people enjoy Modern. So what's your point?

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WotC bans all combo decks which can kill faster than aggro in Modern.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Fixed that for you.

Seriously, each and every one of those glass cannons can be anwered without FoWs/Dazes. I honestly don't see the problem. Stifle, Leyline of Sanctity, Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Chalice of the Void, Ethersworn Canonist and god knows what else won't cease to exist. Heck, perhaps we'll run Gemstone Caverns so we can cast answers when our opponent is on the play for all I care.

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I don't like to play the "Go play X format" card, but if you think Force is an issue, Legacy is not the format for you.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

WotC bans all combo decks which can kill faster than aggro in Modern.

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So his point is "But I want to play combo, damn it!"?

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I don't like to play the "Go play X format" card, but if you think Force is an issue, Legacy is not the format for you.

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And another one that can't read... Lol

For the third time, I was talking about banning the entire Delver/FoW/Daze/Brainstorm/Ponder-shell and not because it's an issue but because it's boring. People have the attention span of a chihuahua that needs to piss.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

So his point is "But I want to play combo, damn it!"?

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No, my point is if you offer no way for the players to police the format, your only option is to call in the National Guard when shit hits the fan.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

And still people enjoy Modern. So what's your point?



Well, actually I was talking about banning Delver, FoW, Daze, Ponder and Brainstorm but for some reason people crap their pants when FoW is mentioned so we're focusing on that now rather than the entire shell.

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I can'ttell if you are trolling or not. Modern doesn't have multiple turn 1 decks. In legacy belcher, oops, dredge, and storm all can kill you on turn 1. The comparison isn't there.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

No, my point is if you offer no way for the players to police the format, your only option is to call in the National Guard when shit hits the fan.

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And that is new, how?

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I can'ttell if you are trolling or not. Modern doesn't have multiple turn 1 decks. In legacy belcher, oops, dredge, and storm all can kill you on turn 1. The comparison isn't there.

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Dice_Box just fixed that one for you, together with Lemnear.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

So his point is "But I want to play combo, damn it!"?

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No, without Ponder, Brainstorm, Daze and FoW, you shrink Combo to Belcher & the like which are near impossible to interact with on the draw. You can either have a diceroll format at this point or swing the banhammer again to neuter Combo right after control, mimicing the Modern metagame structure.

Expect Elves banhammered soon after, as Cradle, GSZ, NO and DRS are too powerful in a pure aggro/midrange metagame then. A downward spiral

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Originally Posted by Echelon

For the third time, I was talking about banning the entire Delver/FoW/Daze/Brainstorm/Ponder-shell and not because it's an issue but because it's boring. People have the attention span of a chihuahua that needs to piss.

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I think you would be surprised what a brainstorm ban would do to delver.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

No, without Ponder, Brainstorm, Daze and FoW, you shrink Combo to Belcher & the like which are near impossible to interact with on the draw. You can either have a diceroll format at this point or swing the banhammer again to neuter Combo right after control, mimicing the Modern metagame structure.

Expect Elves banhammered soon after, as Cradle, GSZ, NO and DRS are too powerful in a pure aggro/midrange metagame then. A downward spiral

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I know :wink:. We'll end up with Moden + Pernicious Deeds, Hymn to Tourachs and such. Oh, and D&T, Manaless Dredge and Lands, lol.

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Originally Posted by testing32

I think you would be surprised what a brainstorm ban would do to delver.

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The answer is: nothing. You can still push people against the wall on the back of Delver + denial, can still cantrip T1 into your FoW/Daze against Combo, but don't have to deal with decks like S&T anymore which have a consistancy-problem if they can't shuffle dead combo-parts away.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

For the third time, I was talking about banning the entire Delver/FoW/Daze/Brainstorm/Ponder-shell and not because it's an issue but because it's boring.

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This is subjective

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Originally Posted by Star|Scream

This is subjective

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So..?

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

The answer is: nothing. You can still push people against the wall on the back of Delver + denial, can still cantrip T1 into your FoW/Daze against Combo, but don't have to deal with decks like S&T anymore which have a consistancy-problem if they can't shuffle dead combo-parts away.

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Exactly. Delver loses consistancy and the ability to quicky change game plans while Terminus and S&T take a big hit.

I would expect that delver could still be played but it should open the door for non-brainstorm decks to be able to prey on it.