[Primer] Six Shades of Dressnought aka Vaka-Nought

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Originally Posted by snugar_i

Nulldrifter does not have flash, am I missing something?

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Youre right. My mistake. I thought it did for some weird reason.

Im still excited about Nulldrifter, especially in a Mono Blue Dressnought list alongside Harbinger of the Seas. Most blue decks lightly splash a color for their removal. Shutting off the removal colors is exactly what our deck wants, Harbinger is a bomb in that respect.

Monoblue Dressnought

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dress Down
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Daze
2 Consign to Memory
1 Force of Negation/Slip Out the Back
1 Lorien Revealed

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Nulldrifter
2 Harbinger of the Seas
2 Brazen Borrower
2 Murktide Regent
1 Tishana's Tidebinder or Curie, Emergent Intelligence or Narset or Hullbreacher or Jace or some other utility card

4 Wasteland
5 Snow-Covered Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Otawara, Soaring City
1 Mycosynth Gardens or Another Blue Utility Land

//Sideboard:
4 Hydroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Harbinger of the Seas
2 Force of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
1 Consign to Memory
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Jace/Court of Cunning

Murktide & Uro don't work together. It's one or the other, not both.

Murktide is good if you cut green (Nulldrifter draws cards so green is less necessary).

Possible threat suites:
//Bant Build
4 Dreadnought
4 Uro
2 Nulldrifter

//UW or Mono U
4 Dreadnought
4 Nulldrifter
3 Murktide

Mono U is interesting with maindeck Harbinger. Removal-less usually has lower win rate (see MtgTop 8 results: Dreadnought can't race Marit Lage or Archon), but Harbinger shuts down Depths & Borrower also answers fatties.

I'm going to wait until tomorrow and they leak the eldrazi deck.
because my currnet plan is:

Chalice,
Torpor Orb,
NullDrifter
Dreadnought,
Grim Monolith (as lotus petal)
Silver Shroud Costume

Curie?
Force?
Redemptor Dreadnought? (cavern of souls?)
Vanguard Supressor?

Land that enables dreadnought
Talon Gates of Madara:
When ~ enters the battlefield, up to 1 target creature phases out.
T: Add C
1C: Add one of any color
4: Put ~ from your hand onto the battlefield.

Land that lets you get nutty under other enablers:
Sunken palace:
Enters tapped.
T: Add U
1U, Exile Seven cards from your graveyard, T: Add U, if it's used to cast a spell or activate an ability, copy that spell or ability

Ugin's Binding seems great with Nulldrifter...

Ugin's Binding
2U
Instant
Deviod

Return target nonland permanent you don't control to it's owner's hand.

Whenever you cast a colorless spell with mana value 7 or greater, you may exile Ugin's Binding from your graveyard. When you do, return each nonland permanent you don't control to it's owner's hand.

Yeah binding is just nonsense with nulldrifter but what's your other way to trigger it?

//Seems like a combo-oriented Thresh to me. The problems of standalone power and converting dead control elements into superior win conditions, unsure of the choice between playing control or combo in some cases. Seems like Dreadstill and classic legacy reinterpretations of Thresh are colliding into the lowest-CC curve. I consider the combo so expensive alongside the Waste+Stifle+Daze approach that 20 rather than 18 seems more appropriate.//

; UWg Dreadnought:

"""
// `Lands - 20` //
4 Wasteland
3 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Prismatic Vista
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas

// `FTW - 14` //
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
3 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
4 Dress Down

// `Threshly Control - 18`//
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Prismatic Ending

// `Threshly CQ - 8` //
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
"""

<br>

From what I can see, however, this is just worse than Delver-based Thresh on average. In striving toward that variation, I kinda like this mono blue concept:

"""
// `Lands - 20` //
4 Wasteland
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Prismatic Vista
3 Island
3 Snow-Covered Island

// `Threshly CQ Smoothing - 8` //
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

// `Threshly Control - 18`//
4 Force of Will
4 Force of Negation
4 Daze
4 Stifle
2 Brazen Borrower

// `FTW - 14` //
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Curie, Emergent Intelligence
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Murktide Regent
"""

Nobody can afford to let Curie click (the non-useless-ification of a combo enabler and classic in-function standalone piece for the rest of the role of this deck), and it just so happens to pair nicely with Dreadnought. Yes, you do open yourself to 2-for-1s, and that's often part of the inherent risk of a Dreadnought deck in the first place. Added bonus is that you can swing right on the spot, where 12 cards probably ends the game. There's something pleasant about the threat density, and I would dare call it fishy. =). I will argue that splashing at least, even if only, for sideboarding seems likely worthy. Harbinger of the Seas seems like a much stronger SB card, and it has that B2B feel of MUC, in a way (which wouldn't be the worst SB option here either); one could even transform out of Dreadnought for a total attack on the opposing mana base. Ugin's Binding + Nulldrifter may simply be better in the end, I have no idea.

4eak, both of your lists should make room for 3 Nulldrifter and 4 Dress Down.

20 Lands + 8 cantrips is excessive, 19 is as high as I would go. I would probably cut a Daze too, Daze works better as a 2-3 of than as a 4 of.

In your UWg list, I would recommend
-1 Daze
-1 Island
-1 Prismatic Ending
+3 Nulldrifter

The monoblue list should be maindecking Harbinger, its the only reason to play monoblue. Delver is too slow and Curie makes sense as 1-2 of, not a 4 of. And 4 Force of Negation is beyond excessive and way too much card disadvantage alongside the FoWs, I would play 1 FoN maindeck and another in the board. So those would be my cuts to make room for the Nulldrifters, Harbingers and Dress Downs.

Help me understand your love of Harbringer (aka, Flood Moon, Aka Magus of the Blue Moon, aka Avatar Merfolk Copium)
It's double U in the cost, so you're not playing it early. Islands are far more useful to opponents than mountains. It keeps you out of other colors where goodies like Uro are.

Monstrous Vortex
3G
Enchantment

Whenever you cast a creature spell with power 5 or greater, discover X, where X is that spell's mana value

So if you have a torpor orb or dress down out....
and you cast a dreadnought...
and you have no other 1's/0's....
you get to put 4 dreadnoughts into play.

Which means no chalice, but man..... 48 power?

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

Help me understand your love of Harbringer (aka, Flood Moon, Aka Magus of the Blue Moon, aka Avatar Merfolk Copium)
It's double U in the cost, so you're not playing it early. Islands are far more useful to opponents than mountains. It keeps you out of other colors where goodies like Uro are.

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The splash colors contain all the removal. You cut them off the splash color and they cant StP, Boseiju or Meltdown our threats.

Our threats are much faster clocks than their threats with the exception of Marit Lage which both Harbinger and Brazen Borrower help with.

Im not saying its worth going monoblue for harbinger. UW, Bant and UG are probably better. But if we opt to go monoblue (which is finally viable thanks to Nulldrifter), Harbinger should be maindecked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

Monstrous Vortex
3G
Enchantment

Whenever you cast a creature spell with power 5 or greater, discover X, where X is that spell's mana value

So if you have a torpor orb or dress down out....
and you cast a dreadnought...
and you have no other 1's/0's....
you get to put 4 dreadnoughts into play.

Which means no chalice, but man..... 48 power?

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No other 1s in the deck means we dont get to play Brainstorm, Ponder or Stifle.

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Originally Posted by Captain Hammer

No other 1s in the deck means we dont get to play Brainstorm, Ponder or Stifle.

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Yes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

but man..... 48 power?

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4 thrull
4 Dreadnought
4 nulldrifther
2 brazen/misdirection

4 force
4 daze
4 stifle
4 dress down
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 stp

4 wasteland
3 tundra
1 surveil land
3 island
7 fetch

basic but work well

Yeah I like that plan, it looks consistent.

Probably Brazen over Misdirection because there's no way to remove noncreatures like Chalice (no Prismatic Ending)

yes brazen is better solution. Prismatic Ending is in side, two color not Is the best fot P.E.
you could still change the land with surveil with 1x of otawara to have an additional solution?

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Originally Posted by babau

4 thrull
4 Dreadnought
4 nulldrifther
2 brazen/misdirection

4 force
4 daze
4 stifle
4 dress down
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 stp

4 wasteland
3 tundra
1 surveil land
3 island
7 fetch

basic but work well

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love this list as a starting point. how would you start the sb?

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Originally Posted by johncarvalho

love this list as a starting point. how would you start the sb?

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Yes this list looks solid, but it doesnt use the graveyard at all so could easily support 2 Murkide as a bonus big threat. And definitely brazen over misdirection.

I would cut a stifle and daze for the murktides, stifle because it doesnt work as well with nulldrifter (it needs 4 mana on the same turn), and daze because daze is way more potent when it surprises your opponent, and the more dazes you play, the less likely daze is to catch them by surprise.

the deck must put down a big guy on the third turn at the latest, and it must do so with active protection, if you don't have a hand that can do it you must mulligan. If the main plan doesn't work the strength of the deck is the draw/search engine which normally allows us to repeat our game. In any case, both Regent and S. Caterina are possible insertions.

I find nulldrifther very strong because if the stifle-nulldrifther play is blocked, 2 cards have still been drawn and therefore 1) we didn't miss a turn 2) we had +1 card advantage over our opponent (who spent a card to block our play)